Sep 10, 2013
23
3
Status
Do you guys feel the whole DO vs MD among residencies and employment will improve significantly in the next 5-10 years?
 

EMDO2018

Membership Revoked
Removed
Oct 8, 2013
1,913
1,232
I don't know
Status
Medical Student
I was reading a thread from 2003 yesterday, and they were saying " by 2013 most DO's won't match." Im guessing most matched this year. I guessing most will match in 2023 too.
 
Jun 15, 2013
341
28
Status
Pre-Medical
If the trend continues, then yeah, is stay the stigma will at least lessen. Even speaking with MD physicians that are 60+ yrs old vs. 30+ yrs old, I see the difference. It's big.
 
  • Like
Reactions: joyfulll
Dec 18, 2013
153
37
Status
Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
I've been a long-time lurker on SDN. Admittedly, I have a small amount of clinical volunteering. What stigma is there among DOs? They're doctors...medically trained...most patients don't know/care/realize the difference between MD/DO. Perhaps the stigma is among pre-allopaths the most and some of the older population?
 
  • Like
Reactions: foot2foot
Oct 14, 2012
64
20
Status
Most physicians I have shadowed don't care if you are an MD or a DO; however many physicians know that DO school is easier to get in to than MD school and that many students use it as a back-up. As a result, there is a bit of an elitist among older (and some newer) physicians in that DO's are MD rejects for the most part.
 

ph7

Aug 13, 2012
241
20
Chicago
Status
Medical Student
not so sure about the employment aspect of the overall medical field seeing a lot of areas becoming very saturated, but I suppose the older physician group will leave a big gap sooner or later
 

SLC

A Punk rock Country doc
7+ Year Member
Mar 24, 2010
3,677
3,730
The Empire
Status
Attending Physician
When my HarvardMed/Stanford Residency preceptor tells me I should put pressure on a local hospital to let DO students rotate there, claiming it's blatant discrimination against students who are by all measures equals to the MD students that do rotate there, I think the stereotype is melting away.

And this is in a very low DO representation area of the country.
 

NurWollen

Strong with the Force
10+ Year Member
Dec 27, 2007
3,427
2,365
United States
Status
Resident [Any Field]
When my HarvardMed/Stanford Residency preceptor tells me I should put pressure on a local hospital to let DO students rotate there, claiming it's blatant discrimination against students who are by all measures equals to the MD students that do rotate there, I think the stereotype is melting away.

And this is in a very low DO representation area of the country.
Are you talking Utah or Oregon?
 

SLC

A Punk rock Country doc
7+ Year Member
Mar 24, 2010
3,677
3,730
The Empire
Status
Attending Physician
Are you talking Utah or Oregon?
Utah.

And I think I may have found language in their policy manual (that I had to read to do a rotation at another hospital of theirs) that might render the policy invalid anyway :)
 

SLC

A Punk rock Country doc
7+ Year Member
Mar 24, 2010
3,677
3,730
The Empire
Status
Attending Physician
Although one did slip into the University Hospital, not sure how that happened ;)
Are you talking about the recent Chief?

I'm banking on the notion that showing my face around there as much as possible, and having a board score in line with what they recommend for DO applicants, will give me the best chance possible.

I have some connections with clinical faculty at the IM program, and I've worked with the director of the Nephrology program some (and will more in the coming year hopefully). He even recommended I complete a rotation there 4th year, though the website officially says DO's aren't allowed to complete 4th year Nephrology rotations. We'll see.
 

scoKraz4

5+ Year Member
Dec 16, 2013
270
143
Most physicians I have shadowed don't care if you are an MD or a DO; however many physicians know that DO school is easier to get in to than MD school and that many students use it as a back-up. As a result, there is a bit of an elitist among older (and some newer) physicians in that DO's are MD rejects for the most part.
It is arguable that it is easier to get into considering the amount of applications that they receive. Also, what about Caribbean MD's? Are they just "undercover" DO's being smuggled into the country. Their stats aren't so hot for the most part.
 

cliquesh

10+ Year Member
Nov 2, 2007
3,090
1,089
Status
Resident [Any Field]
It is arguable that it is easier to get into considering the amount of applications that they receive. Also, what about Caribbean MD's? Are they just "undercover" DO's being smuggled into the country. Their stats aren't so hot for the most part.
When people say MD vs DO they are always referring to USMDs. Everyone assumes Caribbean MDs and DOs could not get into a USMD school.
 

Ibn Alnafis MD

10+ Year Member
Dec 26, 2008
4,902
2,891
Where the past and the future intersect
forums.studentdoctor.net
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I was reading a thread from 2003 yesterday, and they were saying " by 2013 most DO's won't match." Im guessing most matched this year. I guessing most will match in 2023 too.
Could you link me the thread? I would love what type of speculations were going on back then.
 
Dec 18, 2013
153
37
Status
Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
  • Like
Reactions: ChineseKid

Mehd School

5+ Year Member
May 2, 2012
2,287
672
West Coast
Status
Resident [Any Field]
The only difference between MD and DO admits is o.3 GPA points and 4 MCAT points.
Yeah but....that's an enormous gap when you consider retakes and that 4 points on the mcat is huge.

I will say though, if you throw away the WashU, Yale, Harvard, etc numbers, the line blurs a little more But maybe not, because there's like 4x as many allo schools.
 

ChineseKid

learning
7+ Year Member
Dec 31, 2009
710
69
BC
Status
Medical Student
^ Whats the admits for MD then?
3.5 and 33?
 

guylewis

5+ Year Member
Jul 2, 2013
492
419
Status
Resident [Any Field]

user3

7+ Year Member
Jul 10, 2010
3,279
1,170
Status
Medical Student
Yeah, 3.7 and a 25 MCAT. You have a 3.6 and a 35 MCAT. Who wins? Go apply MD and you'll get in somewhere.
MD chances are decent but iffy with 35/3.28 sgpa. MD schools are far, far less forgiving of things like lower sGPA, lower MCAT, etc than DO schools. Look in pre-allo and you will see many people with those numbers and no acceptances.

Someone on here last year for example, had 3.33 sgpa, 35 mcat, applied to 15 or so MD schools but got no interviews. They are now attending DMU.
 

ChineseKid

learning
7+ Year Member
Dec 31, 2009
710
69
BC
Status
Medical Student
Yea. From my own experiences and stories that I have heard, DO schools are a bit more forgiving in regards to gpa

Sent from my SGH-T889V using Tapatalk
 
Aug 14, 2013
468
264
Status
Pre-Medical
Consequently, the stigma will be more dissolved too you think?
Dude, who cares. Focus on becoming a good doctor and stop caring what people think.

Being insecure is a good way to not be respected, especially in medicine where the one with the biggest ego wins.
 

Elevencents

5+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Sep 3, 2011
1,460
617
Status
MD chances are decent but iffy with 35/3.28 sgpa. MD schools are far, far less forgiving of things like lower sGPA, lower MCAT, etc than DO schools. Look in pre-allo and you will see many people with those numbers and no acceptances.

Someone on here last year for example, had 3.33 sgpa, 35 mcat, applied to 15 or so MD schools but got no interviews. They are now attending DMU.
Fair enough. I still think an early and broad application will get him in somewhere. Needless to say, asking if competitive for DO is just silly.
 

csx

May 8, 2013
1,075
211
Status
Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
damn...

will a 3.6/3.28/35 be competitive for DO schools?
It doesn't take a doctor to answer this question jeeeez ;)

In 2020, DO's will be half-cyborg half monkey with prosthetic limbs
 
  • Like
Reactions: sb247

Mehd School

5+ Year Member
May 2, 2012
2,287
672
West Coast
Status
Resident [Any Field]
MD chances are decent but iffy with 35/3.28 sgpa. MD schools are far, far less forgiving of things like lower sGPA, lower MCAT, etc than DO schools. Look in pre-allo and you will see many people with those numbers and no acceptances.

Someone on here last year for example, had 3.33 sgpa, 35 mcat, applied to 15 or so MD schools but got no interviews. They are now attending DMU.
You think a 3.0/3.0/23 will net you a DO acceptance but a 3.6/3.3/35 will get you peanuts for MD? Where are you coming up with this man? Have you even been part of an application cycle yet?
 

user3

7+ Year Member
Jul 10, 2010
3,279
1,170
Status
Medical Student
You think a 3.0/3.0/23 will net you a DO acceptance but a 3.6/3.3/35 will get you peanuts for MD? Where are you coming up with this man? Have you even been part of an application cycle yet?
I have reviewed UD threads, WAMC's, school specific threads and MDapps copiously. It is FAR easier to get into DO schools for someone below the matriculant averages than MD. Example, one has poor chance swith 3.3 sci/31 for MD, but 3.1 sci/27 is fine for DO-- yet they are the same distance below the matriculant averages! (MD avg is 3.7/3.6/31, DO is 3.5/3.4/27)

It is well established that the acceptable range is far wider for DO, while much narrower for MD.

As a result, a 3.3 sci GPA even with 35 MCAT will make for decent allopathic chances-- but absolutely NO where near as high as someone with 3.4/3.1/31 (in other words, metrics same distance from matriculant mean) will have for DO. For whatever reason, even having 1 metric below the average hurts so much more for MD than with DO. see what I mean?

I think they will almost certainly get some interviews...but acceptance chances (although decent) are nowhere near as high as you think.
 

Mehd School

5+ Year Member
May 2, 2012
2,287
672
West Coast
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I have reviewed UD threads, WAMC's, school specific threads and MDapps copiously. It is FAR easier to get into DO schools for someone below the matriculant averages than MD. Example, one has poor chance swith 3.3 sci/31 for MD, but 3.1 sci/27 is fine for DO-- yet they are the same distance below the matriculant averages! (MD avg is 3.7/3.6/31, DO is 3.5/3.4/27)

It is well established that the acceptable range is far wider for DO, while much narrower for MD.

As a result, a 3.3 sci GPA even with 35 MCAT will make for decent allopathic chances-- but absolutely NO where near as high as someone with 3.4/3.1/31 (in other words, metrics same distance from matriculant mean) will have for DO. For whatever reason, even having 1 metric below the average hurts so much more for MD than with DO. see what I mean?

I think they will almost certainly get some interviews...but acceptance chances (although decent) are nowhere near as high as you think.
Ah, ok. You're basing your entire knowledge on a bunch of internet numbers that are probably often made up.

Again, have you taken part in the application cycle for yourself?
 
  • Like
Reactions: VinceViegel

MedWonk

高飛車
7+ Year Member
May 13, 2010
1,773
958
New England
Status
Medical Student
If in 2020 there's an issue with DOs matching it'll probably be due to a lack of residency spots. If the increase in number of graduating med students continues to outpace increase in number of residency spots, then there could be some pain up ahead. US MDs would share some of this pain, I imagine. IMGs and FMGs would definitely feel the pain. Hopefully funding will increase so there are ample spots for US MD/DO grads, but with the things are going in Congress, I'm not holding much hope.
 

user3

7+ Year Member
Jul 10, 2010
3,279
1,170
Status
Medical Student
Ah, ok. You're basing your entire knowledge on a bunch of internet numbers that are probably often made up.

Again, have you taken part in the application cycle for yourself?
accepted c/o 2018
 

csx

May 8, 2013
1,075
211
Status
Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
It's not utah's fault the MDs have nunchuck, bowfighting and computer hacking skills.

Utah loves skills
Ya, its common block to take while attending MD. Common knowledge brah.
 
Dec 18, 2013
242
147
Status
Medical Student
Ah, ok. You're basing your entire knowledge on a bunch of internet numbers that are probably often made up.

Again, have you taken part in the application cycle for yourself?
You guys have to stop putting down User3. Most of the numbers are not made up. Premeds don't have THAT much time on their hands, or so we would hope.

Mehd School, not that this is a problem, but when you start at your DO school you will see more than half of your classmates didn't break a 30 on the MCAT and that a GOOD chunk of them pulled 25-26s (50 percentile).

Seriously, DO schools are SIGNIFICANTLY easier to gain at least ONE acceptance at. The same cannot CANNOT be said about MD schools. It isn't even close, so everyone needs to stop acting like it is.
 
Apr 17, 2011
2,056
81
Status
Pre-Medical
You guys have to stop putting down User3. Most of the numbers are not made up. Premeds don't have THAT much time on their hands, or so we would hope.

Mehd School, not that this is a problem, but when you start at your DO school you will see more than half of your classmates didn't break a 30 on the MCAT and that a GOOD chunk of them pulled 25-26s (50 percentile).

Seriously, DO schools are SIGNIFICANTLY easier to gain at least ONE acceptance at. The same cannot CANNOT be said about MD schools. It isn't even close, so everyone needs to stop acting like it is.
i got to agree with this, which is exactly why i am applying to MD and DO with a 3.6/3.3 and 35. i am also applying to new DO schools so my chances are even higher.

and if i can only do primary care, then so be it. a primary care salary is enough to get me what i want.
 

csx

May 8, 2013
1,075
211
Status
Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
i got to agree with this, which is exactly why i am applying to MD and DO with a 3.6/3.3 and 35. i am also applying to new DO schools so my chances are even higher.

and if i can only do primary care, then so be it. a primary care salary is enough to get me what i want.
Make sure you say that at your interview. Schools love that!