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DOs not recognized in AOrthopedicsA/CORD statement

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JointsMan

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It really frustrates me the lack of acknowledgement that DO students even really exist in this statement put out by the AOrthoA/CORD. As you can tell from the copied portion below, the focus is entirely on allopathic students:

i. In general, it is recommended that allopathic students with Step 1 scores >235 apply to no more than 40 programs.
ii. It is recommended that allopathic students with Step 1 scores < 235 apply to no more than 60 programs.
iii. Step scores should be considered in the context of other strengths or areas of concern in a student’s residency application.
b. Data from 2018 NRMP surveys will help students and orthopaedic advisors assess how an individual student’s application characteristics will affect their likelihood of matching: https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacd...rtingOutcomes-in-the-Match-2018_Seniors-1.pdf.
c. Finally, a strong plea: Please do not apply to more than 60 programs unless you have had some academic difficulty, are couples-matching, or are advised to by your orthopaedic medical school leadership. The data supports that the vast majority of applicants do not need to apply to more than 40 programs. We want to ensure that applicants get a holistic review, but this will be difficult to do if programs are flooded by applications.



We know that these recommendations can not apply to DO students because a 235 for a DO applicant is not even remotely close to the same as a MD applicant with a 235 in the eyes of program directors across the nation.

The only mention that we exist is saying the COMLEX Level 2 CE and PE have been delayed for students. Even if some want to say that the AOA is mainly for MDs while DOs have the AOsteoAOrtho, CORD encompasses all of the ortho residency programs now in ACGME. This should have been done by the AOA in partnership with the AOAO. The only thing I have seen from the AOAO is an email a few weeks ago asking what our thoughts were on virtual rotations. I think it's time the AOAO stops focusing solely on the original DO residency programs and starts advocating for students toward the original ACGME programs as well. And I think it's time we as students stop just accepting that we can only really have a shot with 40 something programs in this country. Let's build the DO Orthopedic brand to improve rather than just stay stagnant and hope that the traditional DO programs don't start taking MD applicants essentially eroding future DOs in orthopedics.

*Posted originally in Orthopedics section, but felt this deserved more visibility by DOs so deleted and moved it over here.
 

Cath Up

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Agree that it's not nice to ignore DOs. I think you have to be in a position of power or know someone in a position of power to do anything about this though. It's kind of crazy to me how you can have a DO that is totally equal across the board, likely even more competitive, and they get totally shafted in ortho. Like, if I were a program director and saw a DO student that was competitive I'd know they had messed up somewhere along the line as far as GPA or MCAT goes, then had improved during med school. They're driven and have learned about themself and had to improve. I'd want that in a resident. But it's not how the world works. It's also probably not fair to look at things like that when you have applicants who have continually been excellent. They deserve recognition too.

There will always be prestige people. DOs can't do much about it, other than increase the quality of DO education (which is being eroded with expansion).
 
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JointsMan

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There will always be prestige people. DOs can't do much about it, other than increase the quality of DO education (which is being eroded with expansion).

I think beliefs like this are what keep DOs down. I spoke with one APD of an ACGME traditional program who didn't even know that the merger happened yet :bang:. To even get past things like that, the AOAO should be advocating on our behalf, especially if they want us to become future members. They should be working in conjunction with the AOrthoA and get these types of messages out to programs and practicing orthopedic surgeons. We don't have to just accept where we are and hope that we maintain status quo forever when it's very possible that 5, 10, 15 years down the road that DO ortho students spots at DO Ortho programs dwindles.
 
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DNC127

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Why would they include DOs? We aren’t valid candidates in their eyes. Practically speaking, you aren’t going to get many invites on the MD side unless you full send and do 6 auditions at MD places that guarantee invites to all rotators. You could have 250+ and research and apply to every program and still probably wouldn’t get more than 5 non rotator invites. They don’t need or want us and it’s time to get over it. Those who match MD have crazy apps and also luck out in regards to the match going there way / being at programs who are truly open to ranking them high enough to match. For the record, I think it’s perfectly reasonable why they don’t want us and I have no issues with it. Why would you want someone who went to a second rate school ran by a questionable national leadership and by-and-large shotty clinical rotations? (By the way, from talking to some friends at low end MD schools they faced similar issues applying ortho).

it sucks, I wish it weren’t the case, but it’s life unfortunately.
 
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Gen3ricDO

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It really frustrates me the lack of acknowledgement that DO students even really exist in this statement put out by the AOrthoA/CORD. As you can tell from the copied portion below, the focus is entirely on allopathic studenYa


i. In general, it is recommended that allopathic students with Step 1 scores >235 apply to no more than 40 programs.
ii. It is recommended that allopathic students with Step 1 scores < 235 apply to no more than 60 programs.
iii. Step scores should be considered in the context of other strengths or areas of concern in a student’s residency application.
b. Data from 2018 NRMP surveys will help students and orthopaedic advisors assess how an individual student’s application characteristics will affect their likelihood of matching: https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacd...rtingOutcomes-in-the-Match-2018_Seniors-1.pdf.
c. Finally, a strong plea: Please do not apply to more than 60 programs unless you have had some academic difficulty, are couples-matching, or are advised to by your orthopaedic medical school leadership. The data supports that the vast majority of applicants do not need to apply to more than 40 programs. We want to ensure that applicants get a holistic review, but this will be difficult to do if programs are flooded by applications.



We know that these recommendations can not apply to DO students because a 235 for a DO applicant is not even remotely close to the same as a MD applicant with a 235 in the eyes of program directors across the nation.

The only mention that we exist is saying the COMLEX Level 2 CE and PE have been delayed for students. Even if some want to say that the AOA is mainly for MDs while DOs have the AOsteoAOrtho, CORD encompasses all of the ortho residency programs now in ACGME. This should have been done by the AOA in partnership with the AOAO. The only thing I have seen from the AOAO is an email a few weeks ago asking what our thoughts were on virtual rotations. I think it's time the AOAO stops focusing solely on the original DO residency programs and starts advocating for students toward the original ACGME programs as well. And I think it's time we as students stop just accepting that we can only really have a shot with 40 something programs in this country. Let's build the DO Orthopedic brand to improve rather than just stay stagnant and hope that the traditional DO programs don't start taking MD applicants essentially eroding future DOs in orthopedics.

*Posted originally in Orthopedics section, but felt this deserved more visibility by DOs so deleted and moved it over here.

They’re using data from 2018 to make their pleas. Only a handful of DOs matched MD ortho then. I believe around 20 matched MD ortho this year. They didn’t have data on us previously. They don’t know how many programs DOs should apply to in order to match because there wasn’t data on that. I’m not shocked by this at all.
 
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harrislakers123

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Who cares we have 30-40 of our own ortho programs
 
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Scrubs101

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Who cares we have 30-40 of our own ortho programs
One of the few points of DO pride I have left is from DO ortho still having DO students backs. Mad respect.

Also I think the bolding of the term “allopathic” is purposeful and a recognition that these recommendations shouldnt apply to osteopathic students as they are in a different situation, as they could have just said medical students. I agree that a mentioning of osteopathic students would have been nice though.
 
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TwistedTea

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I would have never noticed the lack of DO in the paper. Must not be woke yet
 

DameJulie

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What's the percentage of DOs in the whole ortho physician populations? Residents?
 

hungrydoc710

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Lol surgery is overrated anyways
 
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hungrydoc710

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Lol no, entirely serious - just my opinion of course.

Gunnin' for academic IM.
 
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