DOs Residency Merger with ACGME

[sabsaf123]

I'm pretty sure 80% of graduates from newer DO schools will not be competitive for anything but low tier FM due to the fact that they will be bottom of the barrel applicants.

80% Just FM? Wouldn't these 80% still have a very good shot at Im, psych, etc.?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[NurWollen]

80% Just FM? Wouldn't these 80% still have a very good shot at Im, psych, etc.?

Yes, they'd still have a good shot at a lot of specialties.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

80% Just FM? Wouldn't these 80% still have a very good shot at Im, psych, etc.?

I know ur pre-med and all bud.. but for the love of God PLEASE don't take everything you read on here super seriously.

Leftover spots will go to the Carib students.

 

[IslandStyle808]

80% Just FM? Wouldn't these 80% still have a very good shot at Im, psych, etc.?

Don't take that statement at face value. What he is trying to get at is that those people will won't match that well due to not being that academically strong to begin with. People can change in medical school also and school rep isn't has big as what people on SDN make it out to be. It is just a matter of how good a student you are that will determine how well you match mostly.

 

[Osasuna]

Not necessarily "immediate acceptance". Just a clear statement that they aren't trying to destroy or push out osteopathy like they have attempted to do in the past. Then they could complete their impartial assessment (to the same extent as they do with other specialties assuming there is such a process) and state their conclusions prior to any further coalescing of the two professions so that both parties know in advance what they'd be getting themselves into. This is reasonable and would lead to a less chaotic outcome than what has happened with the GME takeover, which was pretty much "let's force them into the deal immediately and just wing it".

Again, such a statement is only solicited because of their history. If I had an extensive history of behaving poorly towards you by calling you names or undermining you at work, for example, it would be reasonable for you to want some reassurance from me that I will not do those things anymore before signing a contract agreeing to work with me in the future.

Holy crap, guys, just spent an hour of what should have been study time reading through your cut-throat argument. I'm an Osteopath, but I fall into group #2. Sure, I get the appeal of OMM (All Hail AT Still!), but I'm not one of those people who has "the gift" if you know what I mean. I am not likely to ever practice OMM in whatever field I enter, but I know that many people will and do. What bothers me is the stigma that is attached to Osteopathic medicine, and you all know it's true. The national accreditation standards for DOs and MDs are so similar now, more than ever. As a DO, I do EVERYTHING and MD does, and if an MD takes an elective course in OMM, he/she will do EVERYTHING that I do. We're held to the exact same standards, treat the exact same patients, but yet the stigma about DOs remains. Would that everyone would understand that our education is identical to that of the MDs, but that's not how it is. If the "switch" was offered today, I would do it - if for no other reason than to be rid of other medical professionals lowered expectations of me. Am I dissing the profession of Osteopathy? Absolutely not. I admire the history behind it. Do I think cranial is a load of crap? ... no comment. Do I think the AOA has $pecial intere$t$? Of cour$e they do, and that's why the merger hasn't happened yet. If I could stay a DO and be stigma free, that would be great. Also, a merger should not be forced and it probably wouldn't be forced. There are plenty of DOs who got into the profession BECAUSE of the DO label, and they wouldn't want to change that. I know many of them. The only way a merger would make sense would be to offer the switch for those who wanted it, just like they did back in the day.

 

[engTOmedicine]

Not all DOs will wind up in primary care but at most schools usually around 60 percent or more of each graduating class goes into a primary care residency. Some schools encourage their students to become primary care physicians, others like mine encourage students to follow any field they desire.

What school do you go to? I find the DO philosophy more appealing than MD, but I want to go into EM or Peds. I don't want to get pidgeon-holed into FP.

 

[InternistDO]

What school do you go to? I find the DO philosophy more appealing than MD, but I want to go into EM or Peds. I don't want to get pidgeon-holed into FP.

Peds is easy to do as a DO, and EM isn't horrifically difficult, but the "DO philosophy" is, in my experience, just made up to confuse pre-meds. Once you're in school you'll realize there is no difference, and you'll find MDs who "treat holistically" and DOs who couldn't care less about getting to know the patient.

At the end of the day, almost any speciality is easier as an MD, unless you have a burning desire to actually learn OMM and do neuromuscular medicine. I enjoy being in DO school for the most part and don't have tremendous worry about matching into what I want to do, but if I had gotten into an MD school I would have gone there with no questions asked.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

And also, if you go to an M.D. school and still want to learn osteopathy, there are courses for MDs who want to learn osteopathy or you could go to a osteopathic centric residency program, which my understanding under the merger will require MDs that match there to still do the osteopathic training in the residency.

If you mean that you would rather go to a DO school because of the humanistic side of medicine, there are plenty of MD schools the focus on this too. The MD medical school that I went to had a humanities dept and curriculum throughout the 4 yrs.

I certainly wouldn't make wanting to learn osteopathy the driving decision behind your career choice if you want to do EM. I know very few EM docs who use osteopathic manipulation in actual ED practice. I can think of one resident in five years as faculty at a do em residency that used manipulation fairly regularly, and even then it was less than once a shift. As an M.D., when I ask a student or resident who is a DO if there's anything they can do manipulation wise to help a patient with something like back pain, they always look at me like I have two heads. For whatever reason, that I don't fully understand, people just don't seem to use their manipulation techniques in emergency medicine, at least not in my experience.

Im certainly not saying this to discourage anyone from applying to DO schools. I would just encourage people to go to the best schools they can get into, or that make the best geographic sense for them, no matter if thats MD or DO. Keep your options open until you find the right fit.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Dr. Death]

Peds is easy to do as a DO, and EM isn't horrifically difficult, but the "DO philosophy" is, in my experience, just made up to confuse pre-meds. Once you're in school you'll realize there is no difference, and you'll find MDs who "treat holistically" and DOs who couldn't care less about getting to know the patient.

At the end of the day, almost any speciality is easier as an MD, unless you have a burning desire to actually learn OMM and do neuromuscular medicine. I enjoy being in DO school for the most part and don't have tremendous worry about matching into what I want to do, but if I had gotten into an MD school I would have gone there with no questions asked.

Truer words were never written

 

[SilveoDante]

. The only way a merger would make sense would be to offer the switch for those who wanted it, just like they did back in the day.

I completely agree with what you are saying, however, a 'switch' will never happen again. There has to be consequences for one's actions. With SMP's, graduate school, and various other programs, there is no excuse for not obtaining an MD if one truly desired an MD. Sad but true: the majority of DO's took the easy way out to save time, money, and/or effort. All actions have consequences.

Can people change and become equivalent to MD's through schooling and post-graduate training? Absolutely. However, you bought and worked toward the DO degree...not the MD. I can't work and buy a Ford and magically trade it in for a Tesla because I don't like the stigma attached to driving a Ford. If both vehicles do the same job, you shouldn't care if you drive a Ford or a Tesla. Which leads me to my next point.

The stigma is largely perpetuated within the DO community itself. When I interviewed at an osteopathic school, you could smell it in the air. If you truly believe that you are no different (and I agree that you are not), then be proud of your initials and forget any outside stigma.

And as far as being looked at with lower expectations or as second best, that's just part of the deal sometimes. The only thing that can change that is your effort. But giving you an MD because you don't like your initials? You signed on the dotted line. After all, stigma exists everywhere...not just in DO land, you will never escape it. You just decide to focus on one particular stigma, which is why it seems 'apparent'.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

With SMP's, graduate school, and various other programs, there is no excuse for not obtaining an MD if one truly desired an MD.

This is definitely not true... although I agree with the rest of your post. Many people truly desire the MD but can't afford an SMP, or a graduate program. Some people just can't break a 30 on the MCAT no matter how hard they study and try. And then there are the applicants that are at or above the MD matriculant numbers but live in an unlucky state. Going DO is not "the easy way out." Often it's just the most practical. I would love to go to an MD school and have the MCAT and ECs to get me into a great one, but I didn't know I wanted to do medicine as an 18 yo and so my GPA is crap. With two kids I can't afford 40k for an SMP, and don't want to put that burden on my family. DO schools provide me with the path to the career I want and I have been lucky enough to get into my top choice, a school I would have applied to even if my GPA was higher. To say I went DO to save effort or that I took the easy way out is offensive and naive.

 

[SilveoDante]

This is definitely not true... although I agree with the rest of your post. Many people truly desire the MD but can't afford an SMP, or a graduate program. Some people just can't break a 30 on the MCAT no matter how hard they study and try. And then there are the applicants that are at or above the MD matriculant numbers but live in an unlucky state. Going DO is not "the easy way out." Often it's just the most practical. I would love to go to an MD school and have the MCAT and ECs to get me into a great one, but I didn't know I wanted to do medicine as an 18 yo and so my GPA is crap. With two kids I can't afford 40k for an SMP, and don't want to put that burden on my family. DO schools provide me with the path to the career I want and I have been lucky enough to get into my top choice, a school I would have applied to even if my GPA was higher. To say I went DO to save effort or that I took the easy way out is offensive and naive.

But you did go DO to save effort, time, and/or money (as I had previously said, as those are the usual reasons for one choosing DO). You may not view that as taking the easy way out, but the sad fact is that some people do. No one has the time (nor the care, unfortunately) to sit around hearing your reasons for choosing DO over MD and whether or not they are justified. Instead, people 1. Won't know what you are; 2. Will assume that you were not smart enough to gain an MD acceptance (although this is sometimes not the case); 3. Will assume that you took the easy way out.

I don't start until this fall, but there were students in my sister's MD class who were once homeless, raised two kids independently, grew up in foster care, etc., and they found a way. If the way they took was hard, what is the term for your way? The more practical way? That's great. There is nothing wrong with that. As I said previously, I also applied DO (my favorite doctor is a DO). I was simply telling the previous poster to have more pride in the degree that he/she chose and to stop fantasizing about a 'switch'.

And let's not assume that everyone needs to spend mega bucks for graduate school/SMP or that one needs a 30 on the MCAT to gain admission. I myself have an equivalent of a ~28/29 and have two MD acceptances (non-urm). There are other factors at play, factors that can be cultivated through hard work doing activities that are free of charge. Married, kids, late bloomer, other life circumstance in the way? Again, life decisions can have long lasting impacts. This profession, unfortunately, is not very 'forgiving'; especially when there are people who came from worse to achieve an MD.

I follow your posts and respect essentially everything that you say, so please do not feel as though I am attacking you. It's simply a difference of opinion. DO schools are easier to get into. When one is not accepted to MD school, they pick the easier option....which some term the 'easier' path or the 'easy' way out.

 

[jw3600]

But you did go DO to save effort, time, and/or money (as I had previously said, as those are the usual reasons for one choosing DO). You may not view that as taking the easy way out, but the sad fact is that some people do. No one has the time (nor the care, unfortunately) to sit around hearing your reasons for choosing DO over MD and whether or not they are justified. Instead, people 1. Won't know what you are; 2. Will assume that you were not smart enough to gain an MD acceptance (although this is sometimes not the case); 3. Will assume that you took the easy way out.

I don't start until this fall, but there were students in my sister's MD class who were once homeless, raised two kids independently, grew up in foster care, etc., and they found a way. If the way they took was hard, what is the term for your way? The more practical way? That's great. There is nothing wrong with that. As I said previously, I also applied DO (my favorite doctor is a DO). I was simply telling the previous poster to have more pride in the degree that he/she chose and to stop fantasizing about a 'switch'.

And let's not assume that everyone needs to spend mega bucks for graduate school/SMP or that one needs a 30 on the MCAT to gain admission. I myself have an equivalent of a ~28/29 and have two MD acceptances (non-urm). There are other factors at play, factors that can be cultivated through hard work doing activities that are free of charge. Married, kids, late bloomer, other life circumstance in the way? Again, life decisions can have long lasting impacts. This profession, unfortunately, is not very 'forgiving'; especially when there are people who came from worse to achieve an MD.

I follow your posts and respect essentially everything that you say, so please do not feel as though I am attacking you. It's simply a difference of opinion. DO schools are easier to get into. When one is not accepted to MD school, they pick the easier option....which some term the 'easier' path or the 'easy' way out.

I beat your MCAT by like 5 points and was still unable to get into an allopathic school. Sometimes a mediocre, not even low, UGPA just cannot not be overcome. Most people at DO school have exhausted all options including multiple rounds of applications, SMPs, and MCAT retakes. It's pretty uncommon to have DO students who are there to save money (tutition is crazy) or did not try for MD several times. You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[SilveoDante]

[Edit]
Ok...so you settled? There is something to be said for perseverance and fighting through difficult situations. People have overcome much more than what you faced to achieve an MD acceptance. You can make excuses to make yourself feel better all day long, that's fine. But you cannot escape the fact that the large of majority of DO's are DO's by force, not by choice. Everyone has options, but some decide to take the path of least resistance...which some call the easy way out.

 

[jw3600]

[Edit]
Ok...so you settled? There is something to be said for perseverance and fighting through difficult situations. People have overcome much more than what you faced to achieve an MD acceptance. You can make excuses to make yourself feel better all day long, that's fine. But you cannot escape the fact that the large of majority of DO's are DO's by force, not by choice. Everyone has options, but some decide to take the path of least resistance...which some call the easy way out.

How did I settle? I physically don't have any more rounds of applications left....

I'm not disputing that most people aren't there by lack of options. But it's not because of settling. You're blending the two.

 

[SilveoDante]

How did I settle? I physically don't have any more rounds of applications left....

I understand. But settling usually occurs after failure. After you failed, you took the path of least resistance and settled on a degree (perhaps one that you never wanted). How is this different than what I said above?

You can say that your face is unsymmetrical or say that your face is ugly. One phrase may be more polite than the other, but it is what it is. Stigma's exist for a reason, and like I had said previously, a lot of it comes from within the DO community.

 

[jw3600]

I understand. But settling usually occurs after failure. After you failed, you took the path of least resistance and settled on a degree (perhaps one that you never wanted). How is this different than what I said above?

You can say that your face is unsymmetrical or say that your face is ugly. One phrase may be more polite than the other, but it is what it is. Stigma's exist for a reason, and like I had said previously, a lot of it comes from within the DO community.

Going to a DO school isn't about getting a DO degree. It's about becoming a physician. I didn't take the path of least resistance. I took the only one available to me. And you should remember that acceptance to medical school is a prognostic thing. It's a possible measure of your competence as a physician later in life. It's not an absolute measure. You should get used to the fact that there will be many DOs, FMGs and IMGs that are smarter than you and score/perform better. They may be at a disadvantage matching but that doesn't mean every American MD is superior to them. Overall I don't think you really understand the nuances of the situation.

 

[SilveoDante]

At the end of the day, I won't have to justify my degree and constantly utter "but...", "you don't understand...", "it's not because of that...", "I just didn't....", "it's the same, we just...". And my man, I am so thankful for that.

Small differences can sometimes play huge roles in life. For example: it is a fact that students, starting from pre-K, who are viewed by their teachers as being smarter have better outcomes (even if they are, in fact, less intelligent than those around them). This carries through the lifespan. I would never want to be at such a disadvantage. So although I am used to the fact (trust me) that there are people who are WAAAY smarter than I am, I may have better outcomes in medicine and with patients than the individuals you mentioned, simply because I might not be viewed as someone who couldn't get into an MD school (which sometimes carries with it the thought of being less intelligent). There is a reason why every single DO I work with told me to drop my DO acceptance the minute I got the nod from an MD. There are barriers that inevitably exist despite one's intelligence, work ethic, and ability.

And keep making excuses for yourself. You chose to be out of options or in the end, simply couldn't get the job done. Again, it is what it is. Do your thing. I was simply saying that expecting a DO to MD conversion like 'back in the day' was fanciful thinking.

 

[acapnial]

I completely agree with what you are saying, however, a 'switch' will never happen again. There has to be consequences for one's actions. With SMP's, graduate school, and various other programs, there is no excuse for not obtaining an MD if one truly desired an MD. Sad but true: the majority of DO's took the easy way out to save time, money, and/or effort. All actions have consequences.

Can people change and become equivalent to MD's through schooling and post-graduate training? Absolutely. However, you bought and worked toward the DO degree...not the MD. I can't work and buy a Ford and magically trade it in for a Tesla because I don't like the stigma attached to driving a Ford. If both vehicles do the same job, you shouldn't care if you drive a Ford or a Tesla. Which leads me to my next point.

The stigma is largely perpetuated within the DO community itself. When I interviewed at an osteopathic school, you could smell it in the air. If you truly believe that you are no different (and I agree that you are not), then be proud of your initials and forget any outside stigma.

And as far as being looked at with lower expectations or as second best, that's just part of the deal sometimes. The only thing that can change that is your effort. But giving you an MD because you don't like your initials? You signed on the dotted line. After all, stigma exists everywhere...not just in DO land, you will never escape it. You just decide to focus on one particular stigma, which is why it seems 'apparent'.

So the reason MD and DO exist as separate degrees is to make sure there are consequences for how hard you studied in undergrad. Thank god another 22 year old premed has figured it all out and joined in to clear things up for us.

 

[SilveoDante]

So the reason MD and DO exist as separate degrees is to make sure there are consequences for how hard you studied in undergrad. Thank god another 22 year old premed has figured it all out and joined in to clear things up for us.

Isn't it a consequence for how hard you studied in undergrad? I thought that was the reason for why 90%+ DO students would jump at an MD. Wow you guys drink more than OMM kool-aid, huh?

Also 27 with a doctorate if you look at my past posts. And you will also see that I have "pro DO" sentiments. I just hate hearing how you expect to not have a stigma when you didn't have what it took for an MD (the large majority).

 

[acapnial]

Isn't it a consequence for how hard you studied in undergrad? Wow you guys drink more than OMM kool-aid, huh?

Also 27 with a doctorate if you look at my past posts.

I didn't

And whether you get an MD or DO usually does turn out to be a consequence of how much you studied undergrad, at least partially. But you talked about it as if that was the justification for an MD and DO being separate. As if the whole thing is designed to be a punishment/reward system based on your performance in undergrad. It's a view that very heavily suggests a very specific kind of perspective.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

[Edit]
Ok...so you settled? There is something to be said for perseverance and fighting through difficult situations. People have overcome much more than what you faced to achieve an MD acceptance. You can make excuses to make yourself feel better all day long, that's fine. But you cannot escape the fact that the large of majority of DO's are DO's by force, not by choice. Everyone has options, but some decide to take the path of least resistance...which some call the easy way out.

LOL wow


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[SilveoDante]

LOL wow


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

Please point out the flawed logic in that post. Or do you merely have insults and LOL's?

 

[SilveoDante]

I didn't

And whether you get an MD or DO usually does turn out to be a consequence of how much you studied undergrad, at least partially. But you talked about it as if that was the justification for an MD and DO being separate. As if the whole thing is designed to be a punishment/reward system based on your performance in undergrad. It's a view that very heavily suggests a very specific kind of perspective.

I apologize if it came off this way. I do not think it is why MD and DO are separate. However, I do believe that is why you should not be able to convert your DO to an MD. Stand behind what you decided to acquire...that's all I was saying....(and it was directed towards one specific poster).

But is it illogical to believe that DO schools thrive on picking up the scraps?

 

[doing_all_the_things]

I understand. But settling usually occurs after failure. After you failed, you took the path of least resistance and settled on a degree (perhaps one that you never wanted). How is this different than what I said above?

You can say that your face is unsymmetrical or say that your face is ugly. One phrase may be more polite than the other, but it is what it is. Stigma's exist for a reason, and like I had said previously, a lot of it comes from within the DO community.

This guy has the typical attitude of someone that just got accepted to med school. The idea that they worked hard and persevered through difficult tasks, then they were finally rewarded with an acceptance based solely on their character and merits. The reality is that acceptances to here or there are really based on chance more than admissions would be willing to admit. There are far more qualified applicants than there are seats in school. Note "qualified" is based on whoever happens to be looking at your application, shaking your hand, or golfs with your dad on Wednesdays. Generally speaking, DO school is easier to get into than MD schools. But keep in mind that when you say that, you are generalizing (~40 separate osteopathic and ~140 separate allopathic) institutions with wildly different ideas about what makes someone "qualified" while also generalizing the thousands of students that applied.

People that appeal to the credibility of the institutions they attended instead of their own accomplishments either 1. dont have enough experience to have their own credibility or 2. are not very good at what they do.

 

[jw3600]

Isn't it a consequence for how hard you studied in undergrad? I thought that was the reason for why 90%+ DO students would jump at an MD. Wow you guys drink more than OMM kool-aid, huh?

Also 27 with a doctorate if you look at my past posts. And you will also see that I have "pro DO" sentiments. I just hate hearing how you expect to not have a stigma when you didn't have what it took for an MD (the large majority).

You talk a lot of **** for someone with a 28 on the MCAT. That's pretty god damn amatuer hour man.

 

[SilveoDante]

You talk a lot of **** for someone with a 28 on the MCAT. That's pretty god damn amatuer hour man.

But what's sad is that I made it with that score and you didn't. And more importantly, that I can sleep well at night and you obviously will not be able to.

 

[jw3600]

I apologize if it came off this way. I do not think it is why MD and DO are separate. However, I do believe that is why you should not be able to convert your DO to an MD. Stand behind what you decided to acquire...that's all I was saying....(and it was directed towards one specific poster).

But is it illogical to believe that DO schools thrive on picking up the scraps?

Haha scraps? Dude wtf are you on. I beat 2/3 of the kids at allopathic schools in this country on step 1. You are trying to ride the laurels of getting an MD acceptance a little too far.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Please point out the flawed logic in that post. Or do you merely have insults and LOL's?

Lol


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[SilveoDante]

Haha scraps? Dude wtf are you on. I beat 2/3 of the kids at allopathic schools in this country on step 1. You are trying to ride the laurels of getting an MD acceptance a little too far.

I never said that you couldn't redeem yourself and become a fantastic physician...this is all in your own head. I was talking about admissions.

I apologize for offending anyone. I will show myself out...

 

[jw3600]

I never said that you couldn't redeem yourself and become a fantastic physician...this is all in your own head. I was talking about admissions.

You said DO schools get scraps. I say if you can't break 30 on the MCAT you're scraps.

 

[SilveoDante]

You said DO schools get scraps. I say if you can't break 30 on the MCAT you're scraps.

I understand. Congratulations on your step score(s).

 

[GimpGenius]

....you all realize that board certification is the only thing that matters, right? Get there by whatever means necessary.

At any rate, MD or DO, you're still Press Ganey's #^%*#.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

But what's sad is that I made it with that score and you didn't. And more importantly, that I can sleep well at night and you obviously will not be able to.

Come back when you have started med school. I love that you talk trash on DO students, yet your scores would be considered average at many DO schools. You obviously have an extremely narrow mind when it comes to understanding how medical school acceptances actually work. Try applying with your stats to schools in states that are known to be difficult to gain acceptances and then come back and shower us all with your advice. Just because someone is at a DO school doesn't mean they "gave up" or "gave in" or whatever you call it.

 

[STG1021]

[Edit]
Ok...so you settled? There is something to be said for perseverance and fighting through difficult situations. People have overcome much more than what you faced to achieve an MD acceptance. You can make excuses to make yourself feel better all day long, that's fine. But you cannot escape the fact that the large of majority of DO's are DO's by force, not by choice. Everyone has options, but some decide to take the path of least resistance...which some call the easy way out.

I got accepted to both. I am a (future) DO by choice.

 

[jw3600]

I got accepted to both. I am a (future) DO by choice.

Is it too late to change that?

 

[STG1021]

Is it too late to change that?

wouldnt want to. But thanks for the concern!

 

[D2S450]

wouldnt want to. But thanks for the concern!

Same with me. I would hesitate to post that (as I have learned) due to the overwhelming sentiment expressed on SDN.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Be happy where you go.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

This entire osteopathic forum is a just a big arena filled with dead horses being beaten.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[jw3600]

wouldnt want to. But thanks for the concern!

It's your life and I believe in autonomy. Just make sure you make an informed decision. Good luck.

And make sure you're aware that OMM is pretty much garbage if that's a major contributing factor.

 

[jw3600]

This entire osteopathic forum is a just a big arena filled with dead horses being beaten.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

Because it's a place where facts are not well tolerated. Hence no resolution. Ever. It's a post-fact world my friend.

 

[2021Doctor]

One fact that premeds often do not understand is that it is usually far easier to get into med school in July and August than later in the year. Schools tend to be a lot pickier later in the year when they have less spots to fill and many candidates to choose from.

 

[hallowmann]

Settled? Is that pre-med serious? We're not "settling for DO". If we weren't content with it we wouldn't be here. Projecting his ridiculous views of DO on everyone else doesn't make them true. He completely lacks the understanding that US MD admission is not created equal and with all due respect, plenty of us could have been at US MD schools if we lived in the right state.

And I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned, but if we were all so desperate for that "MD" we all could have gone to a Carib school. We want to be physicians, that's why we're at DO schools, not because we were chasing some precious couple of letters.

And he needs to stop repeating "some people will call that ____". The reason he's getting all these replies isn't because "some people" are calling DO the "easy way out", its because he is. He needs to stop trying to pretend he's being a realist or magnanimous, when in reality he's the one coming here doing little more than insulting the DO degree and basically everyone who takes that route... and doing it as a pre-med that hasn't even set foot in a med school classroom let alone passed anatomy. Can't wait until this kid shows up to 3rd year (if he gets that far) only to realize a bunch of his residents and attendings are DOs and FMG/IMGs.

 

[SilveoDante]

Settled? Is that pre-med serious? We're not "settling for DO". If we weren't content with it we wouldn't be here. Projecting his ridiculous views of DO on everyone else doesn't make them true. He completely lacks the understanding that US MD admission is not created equal and with all due respect, plenty of us could have been at US MD schools if we lived in the right state.

And I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned, but if we were all so desperate for that "MD" we all could have gone to a Carib school. We want to be physicians, that's why we're at DO schools, not because we were chasing some precious couple of letters.

And he needs to stop repeating "some people will call that ____". The reason he's getting all these replies isn't because "some people" are calling DO the "easy way out", its because he is. He needs to stop trying to pretend he's being a realist or magnanimous, when in reality he's the one coming here doing little more than insulting the DO degree and basically everyone who takes that route... and doing it as a pre-med that hasn't even set foot in a med school classroom let alone passed anatomy. Can't wait until this kid shows up to 3rd year (if he gets that far) only to realize a bunch of his residents and attendings ate DOs and FMG/IMGs.

Let's get some facts straight:
1. I never said that I would never respect DO's. I work for a DO. I simply said that the majority of DO students are forced to apply DO after failing to receive an MD acceptance (even after numerous cycles).
2. I realize that my MCAT is on the low side. Notice that I don't offer any excuses like the ones that pervade through the osteopathic forum regarding "how the MD process is just so unfair to me!". Grow up. I'm from the left coast and still have 2. Let's hear some more excuses....
3. Although my MCAT is on the low side, I obviously had something else to offer. There is more to an application than MCAT, and once you receive a 27+, success differences between the scoring scales are negligible (per AAMC 2015 MCAT pdf).
4. You are all hypocrites. You hate my "view of DO's", but you use the very same attitude towards "pre-meds" (i.e. thinking that you are better simply because you are in medical school). I have a doctorate. I could very well walk into whatever Podunk town you attend school in and obtain a job to teach you. If you are simply a medical student without an advanced degree, you are essentially useless until you obtain your advanced degree. Being a medical student means NOTHING.
5. I realize that some people chose DO. Great, whatever works. I had applied DO myself but thankfully had other options. Is it a viable career path worth respect? Absolutely. Are you a physician? You bet. However, when I said that DO schools generally pick up the scraps, I was not wrong. If MD schools opened up their classes and gave all DO students the option of transferring...how many DO schools would remain open? A couple? Moreover, if the majority of students at DO schools go DO after not gaining an MD acceptance, what are those DO schools picking up? Leftovers? Scraps? People who decided that DO was a better option? Whatever term you want to use, it is what it is.
6. The kid giving me the 'gas' above is the same person who tells people who pick DO over MD that they are crazy. Like I said, a lot of the stigma comes from within...between the self-hate, excuses, and cries for self-validation, is it any wonder why anyone who has the option would throw away their DO acceptance the minute they obtain an MD?

 

[Event_Horizon]

Let's get some facts straight:
1. I never said that I would never respect DO's. I work for a DO. I simply said that the majority of DO students are forced to apply DO after failing to receive an MD acceptance (even after numerous cycles).
2. I realize that my MCAT is on the low side. Notice that I don't offer any excuses like the ones that pervade through the osteopathic forum regarding "how the MD process is just so unfair to me!". Grow up. I'm from the left coast and still have 2. Let's hear some more excuses....
3. Although my MCAT is on the low side, I obviously had something else to offer. There is more to an application than MCAT, and once you receive a 27+, success differences between the scoring scales are negligible (per AAMC 2015 MCAT pdf).
4. You are all hypocrites. You hate my "view of DO's", but you use the very same attitude towards "pre-meds" (i.e. thinking that you are better simply because you are in medical school). I have a doctorate. I could very well walk into whatever Podunk town you attend school in and obtain a job to teach you. If you are simply a medical student without an advanced degree, you are essentially useless until you obtain your advanced degree. Being a medical student means NOTHING.
5. I realize that some people chose DO. Great, whatever works. I had applied DO myself but thankfully had other options. Is it a viable career path worth respect? Absolutely. Are you a physician? You bet. However, when I said that DO schools generally pick up the scraps, I was not wrong. If MD schools opened up their classes and gave all DO students the option of transferring...how many DO schools would remain open? A couple? Moreover, if the majority of students at DO schools go DO after not gaining an MD acceptance, what are those DO schools picking up? Leftovers? Scraps? People who decided that DO was a better option? Whatever term you want to use, it is what it is.
6. The kid giving me the 'gas' above is the same person who tells people who pick DO over MD that they are crazy. Like I said, a lot of the stigma comes from within...between the self-hate, excuses, and cries for self-validation, is it any wonder why anyone who has the option would throw away their DO acceptance the minute they obtain an MD?

Go tell your DO boss that the school he attended picked up his scraps. Every kid goes through a period of "post-acceptance" enlightenment and thinks it is the end-all-be-all of knowledge about medical school admissions. That is why everyone is telling you to shut it, because you are still a pre-med student. No one cares about your other degrees. We care about physician degrees on this sub-forum. Medical school will crush this attitude out of you, don't worry. For your sake, I hope that you find opportunity to grow more in school and stop this narrow-minded pettiness.

 

[SilveoDante]

Go tell your DO boss that the school he attended picked up his scraps. Every kid goes through a period of "post-acceptance" enlightenment and thinks it is the end-all-be-all of knowledge about medical school admissions. That is why everyone is telling you to shut it, because you are still a pre-med student. No one cares about your other degrees. We care about physician degrees on this sub-forum. Medical school will crush this attitude out of you, don't worry. For your sake, I hope that you find opportunity to grow more in school and stop this narrow-minded pettiness.

The DO I work for was actually the first person who told me to drop my acceptance the minute after I found out that I got into an MD (now that I think of it...maybe he is part of the problem).

Anyways, this thread is supposed to be about the merger.

 

[Event_Horizon]

The DO I work for was actually the first person who told me to drop my acceptance the minute after I found out that I got into an MD. And please take the time to read #4, as you are a medical student. And again, no one is actually disputing what I am saying...they are simply mocking, living in a fantasy land, hanging on their superiority as a student, or making excuses. You all know what it is at the end of the day.

Thank you for editing your post from the original. My apologies for contributing to the derailment of the thread. Back on topic.

 

[jw3600]

Let's get some facts straight:
1. I never said that I would never respect DO's. I work for a DO. I simply said that the majority of DO students are forced to apply DO after failing to receive an MD acceptance (even after numerous cycles).
2. I realize that my MCAT is on the low side. Notice that I don't offer any excuses like the ones that pervade through the osteopathic forum regarding "how the MD process is just so unfair to me!". Grow up. I'm from the left coast and still have 2. Let's hear some more excuses....
3. Although my MCAT is on the low side, I obviously had something else to offer. There is more to an application than MCAT, and once you receive a 27+, success differences between the scoring scales are negligible (per AAMC 2015 MCAT pdf).
4. You are all hypocrites. You hate my "view of DO's", but you use the very same attitude towards "pre-meds" (i.e. thinking that you are better simply because you are in medical school). I have a doctorate. I could very well walk into whatever Podunk town you attend school in and obtain a job to teach you. If you are simply a medical student without an advanced degree, you are essentially useless until you obtain your advanced degree. Being a medical student means NOTHING.
5. I realize that some people chose DO. Great, whatever works. I had applied DO myself but thankfully had other options. Is it a viable career path worth respect? Absolutely. Are you a physician? You bet. However, when I said that DO schools generally pick up the scraps, I was not wrong. If MD schools opened up their classes and gave all DO students the option of transferring...how many DO schools would remain open? A couple? Moreover, if the majority of students at DO schools go DO after not gaining an MD acceptance, what are those DO schools picking up? Leftovers? Scraps? People who decided that DO was a better option? Whatever term you want to use, it is what it is.
6. The kid giving me the 'gas' above is the same person who tells people who pick DO over MD that they are crazy. Like I said, a lot of the stigma comes from within...between the self-hate, excuses, and cries for self-validation, is it any wonder why anyone who has the option would throw away their DO acceptance the minute they obtain an MD?

I thought you were done with this thread? Why are you calling a poster who is a 3rd/4th medical student a kid? No one gives a F about your doctorate. With the massive degree creep everyone and their mother has some random doctorate. If you had a PhD in advanced physics that would impress me. Hell, if you had your masters in advanced physics that would impress me. However, knowing you got a freaking 28 on the MCAT leads me to believe that is not that case. Keep digging, "kid."

 

[ShowtimeKaner88]