DOs who applied ACGME EM...Question for you

Discussion in 'Emergency Medicine' started by MelMcT2009, Mar 9, 2017.

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  1. MelMcT2009

    MelMcT2009

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    How many programs did you apply to, and how many programs did you get interviews at? If you don't mind sharing your board score (or ballpark range), that would be very helpful. I'm (and I'm sure many others) trying to gauge how many programs I should apply to based on my stats. Thank you!
     
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  3. Apollyon

    Apollyon Screw the GST Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    Do you mean EM, or IM?
     
  4. Dr.McNinja

    Dr.McNinja Nobel War Prize Winner SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

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    Based on his other posts in the EM forum, I'm guessing it was a typo. But I'll wait for him or her to answer.
     
  5. racerwad

    racerwad 7+ Year Member

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    I applied to 0.

    There are numerous posts in the ROL thread to give you an idea of what board score X might get you in terms of invites extended. There is also the Charting Outcomes data which is super helpful.

    I know that you want: board score X = apply to Y number of programs +/- (regional correction factor + SDN program desirability index). Sadly, it just isn't that clear.
     
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  6. MelMcT2009

    MelMcT2009

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    Oops, EM! Fixed!
     
  7. MelMcT2009

    MelMcT2009

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    Yeah, unfortunately there are only a few posts from DO's on that ROL thread! Was hoping I could get some more feedback here
     
  8. ajh1983

    ajh1983 2+ Year Member

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    250s/650s step/level 1, 550 level 2 (had a kid that month)
    3 away/audition rotations, for sure honored 2 of them, unsure on the 3rd
    Applied 42, couple top tier, mostly middle, 1 safety
    13 invites. Little bit from each tier which was nice.
    Ranked 8 programs. Got some genuine sounding personal correspondence from my #1 and #2 stating I was ranked to match.

    Overall I expected a lot more action considering my strong app and unique life experiences. It's a really competitive specialty now and the regional / DO bias can be very real for some people.
     
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  9. MelMcT2009

    MelMcT2009

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    Thanks for the response! 13 is great! How do you determine what programs are upper tier, middle tier, and safety? I've already made my list, and the way I went about it was programs with 0-2 ish DOs were "reach". Programs with >35% were safety, and in between were middle of the road. I wasn't sure how else to go about it really?
     
  10. FirefighterDoc

    FirefighterDoc MS-4 7+ Year Member

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    You might get a better response next week after the match. I'll post then. That way you'll get the full story.


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
     
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  11. MelMcT2009

    MelMcT2009

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    Perfect! Thank you, and I hope match day treats you well!
     
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  12. wook

    wook Just a hairy situation 10+ Year Member

    Wish I could help, but it was too long ago.

    Racerwad made some good points. There is not one formula. It depends on the programs you are interested in. When I went through, I did not get interviews at places which other folks with lower stats did. It may have been where I'd lived, or attended school (i.e. location not the school itself). I got interviews at other places that I thought I had no chance. This probably changes year to year depending on the students themselves as well as the program as it changes.


    Thanks.


    Wook
     
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  13. ajh1983

    ajh1983 2+ Year Member

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    Matched this am. I'm happy to help out any DO students looking to apply ACGME.
     
  14. FirefighterDoc

    FirefighterDoc MS-4 7+ Year Member

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    Ditto. Will post when I find out where. Like I said, I'd rather give you guys the whole story. Congrats ajh1983


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
     
  15. gamerEMdoc

    gamerEMdoc Associate PD; EM Clerkship Director Gold Donor

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    Feel free to send me a message and hit me up anytime if you want more directed advice based on your stats. Id be happy to help.
     
  16. FirefighterDoc

    FirefighterDoc MS-4 7+ Year Member

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    DO student. 205/222. President of my schools EMIG. Prior Firefighter/EMT and prior ER tech experience. Some national EM leadership experience. Applied to 60 programs, 10 of which were dual or newly ACGME accredited. I was split when I first was setting up auditions which match I would do. So I did 3 MD aways and 2 DO aways, and both of those wound up being dually accredited. On top of those aways, I did "shadowing shifts" whenever I could. Wound up shadowing at 3-4 more places between audition shifts. I got 2 straight DO interviews and 10 at ACGME/Dual programs. Of those I had either rotated or shadowed at 8 of them. Two of those I received interview invites the week after "shadowing", so I know that it helped. Wound up matching Central Michigan University, the very first place I rotated at. I had a great time there and really jived with the residents and attendings. It took a lot of cold calling and emailing to schedule these "shadowing" shifts, but I know that it definitely helped me get interviews in the end.

    Edit:also went back and attended conference at places I rotated at when my schedule allowed to show them I was still interested and to keep my face fresh in their minds later in the year.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  17. wook

    wook Just a hairy situation 10+ Year Member


    This also demonstrates motivation and interest when you set it up like you did! Strong work!

    Congrats!!



    Wook
     
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  18. FirefighterDoc

    FirefighterDoc MS-4 7+ Year Member

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    Thanks wook!


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  19. alliswells88

    alliswells88

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    DO applicant - step 1: 220s no step 2. Comlex ~600s for both.
    Applied to ~90.
    20 aoa 70s acgme . 8 aoa interviews 18 acgme or dual. Went on 4 aoa and 14 acgme . Matched to number #1 at a university program. Couldn't be happier !! PM with questions . As a side note I don't suggest you not take step 2 - I think having a good score would be very helpful !!


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
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  20. gamerEMdoc

    gamerEMdoc Associate PD; EM Clerkship Director Gold Donor

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    Holy hell. You win the award for best effort. Good god, you earned your match spot!
     
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  21. MelMcT2009

    MelMcT2009

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    WOW, This is awesome! Always good to see when hard work pays off. Thanks for sharing, and best of luck!
     
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  22. FirefighterDoc

    FirefighterDoc MS-4 7+ Year Member

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    Thanks MelMcT and gamerEMdoc. I think the fact that I matched was vindication enough. That being said, it's always nice to have people acknowledge when you work really hard on something.

    Moral of the story to anyone reading this, if you have low board scores it's not a nail in the coffin. Bust your ass, get yourself out there and show them how good you are. Be enthusiastic and friendly, and know what you're doing. Kick ass on auditions and get good SLOEs. You have more control in this process than you think.


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
     
  23. MelMcT2009

    MelMcT2009

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    I think it's a great lesson for all of us, really! I've seen posts here on SDN from 240+ people saying they were struggling for interviews, which is often pretty discouraging for others to read because it worries us. I don't necessarily have low scores, but I am certainly going to learn from your story and get out there and hustle to earn a spot! You da real MVP!
     
  24. futureemdoc91

    futureemdoc91

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    Awesome, job, man. I'm super impressed with your work ethic and dedication. That will continue to pay off for the rest of your life, I am sure of it! Central Michigan got a good one.

    Hoping to get some other DOs to chime in - Starting the process of VSAS now and hoping to hear from some who didn't have step 1 and their experiences!
     
  25. OnlyOneZlatan

    OnlyOneZlatan

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    Couples matched w/ SO who matched IM
    Midwest DO school
    Step scores - 227/236, no CS
    Comlex scores - unreported
    SLOEs - 2 HPs (only sent 2 of my 4 SLOEs), 1 at a highly-regarded county program, 1 at a university program
    Applied to 80 programs (all ACGME), invited to 26 interviews, had 16 interviews w/ 2 while on aways, ranked only 14
    Rank list had 21 combinations based on strength/favorite programs rather than location
    Matched at our #9 combination which was my idk #5-8 favorite program (it was hard to rank after my top 2 honestly) and she matched at her #2 in the same city.

    Couples matching as a DO was not the easiest and you have to be very realistic about your application. If you're couples matching, you truly need to be ready to go just about anywhere. EM is more competitive than other specialties so you will become the limiting factor in the application process if you're couples matching with someone that's in slightly less competitive specialties like IM, anesthesia, or primary care.
     
  26. Babycatsinabag

    Babycatsinabag

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    Heads up DO applicants, UNLV matched 5 DOs this year :naughty:, it probably does for a good away rotation
     
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  27. EmergDoc2B

    EmergDoc2B 2+ Year Member

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    DO - 230-240/250-260 , 570-580/700-720
    applied to 42 ACGME , 8 interviews
    matched number 1 choice at a top county program in the east region that I did an away rotation at.
    I didn't get quantity of interviews I wanted but had 4 quality University programs and the rest were a smattering of hybrid and community programs.
     
  28. jw3600

    jw3600 2+ Year Member

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    Some DOs with similar stats seemed to get more invites. Any thoughts on why maybe you didn't? Geographic bias? Applying to too competitive places?

    Congrats on getting number 1.
     
  29. EmergDoc2B

    EmergDoc2B 2+ Year Member

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    I only applied to a specific geographical region, SE. Other than that maybe PD's didn't like me :).
     
  30. jw3600

    jw3600 2+ Year Member

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    Haha nah. I'm sure the former explaind it. 8 interviews in an isolated region seems solid to me.
     
  31. DrWhozits

    DrWhozits

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    Would you mind posting were you applied down south? Or maybe in a PM?

    My fiancée and I are most likely going to try to stay in the region, and it would be nice to see more or less how competitive I would be for those places.

    Thanks
     
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  32. OnlyOneZlatan

    OnlyOneZlatan

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    If you're competitive, the only programs in the SE that may not look at your app are Emory, Vandy, Duke, UNC, Carolinas
     
  33. MelMcT2009

    MelMcT2009

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    Any idea if Emory took any DOs this year?
     
  34. OnlyOneZlatan

    OnlyOneZlatan

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    Even if they did, unless you are a very strong applicant and/or rotated there, what are the odds you will match there? I believe they have taken 1 DO in the past, you gonna bank on being #2?
     
  35. DrWhozits

    DrWhozits

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    I know; however, he/she had 8 interviews from 42 interviews (not bad at all) with what seems like a pretty competitive application. And it would be nice to see which places considered them competitive enough for an interview and which didn't.
     
  36. DrWhozits

    DrWhozits

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    Also, this is false. They have had 3 DOs from class of 2016-2019. And they actually have an IMG from St. George's
     
  37. OnlyOneZlatan

    OnlyOneZlatan

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    They matched at their #1, so I am sure they will be fine if I say this, but 8 out of 42 isn't actually that great when highly competitive applicants were offered more interviews in more competitive regions. I can tell you I was offered an interview at just about every SE program I applied to other than Emory, but I didn't apply to the others because I knew they wouldn't look at previous graduates with 250+ steps, so they weren't going to look at me. Honestly, every other program will look at you outside of those 5 so long as you are competitive.
     
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  38. OnlyOneZlatan

    OnlyOneZlatan

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    Yup, my bad, but either way, we are trying to put together a list of programs that are known to be DO friendly, and those 5 aren't typically DO friendly.
     
  39. EmergDoc2B

    EmergDoc2B 2+ Year Member

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    I applied to all programs in the SE. I only did 3 aways and was ranked very high at 2 of those and not so much at the third. The third location was not a personality fit for either me or the program. As far as Emory, I had classmates that rotated there and received good SLOE's so I feel I would have been in that pot of folks. As far as getting an interview there, I like to think I might have but honestly, who knows and cares. Also, be wary of ORMC as a DO. Not historically friendly to DO's.
     
  40. OnlyOneZlatan

    OnlyOneZlatan

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    MelMcT2009 - I think you posted in the WAMC thread and stated you're a very strong applicant. You're going to be just fine and will get love from every one of those programs, maybe even the ones that aren't typically DO friendly. Your goal should be to crush your auditions and grab some Hs at competitive programs and I am sure you can be that first DO at a program as long as you're normal and don't let your neuroticism show during interactions and interviews. On paper, you're already stronger than a large majority of applicants.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
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  41. MelMcT2009

    MelMcT2009

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    Nah I was just asking in general; they did have two DOs last year though. SO isn't keen on the idea of living in Atlanta, so I likely won't be applying anyway. Was just curious who they matched this year.

    As far as thinking I'm a special snowflake who will break in to programs with no DOs...That's not me haha. I'm super realistic, and most of those types of programs aren't even on my list. I don't care about prestige...Just wanna go somewhere close to home that will train me well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  42. EmergDoc2B

    EmergDoc2B 2+ Year Member

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    MD programs seem more numbers driven. You got the numbers, a solid rotation with them, have a good personality, and bond with a few residents (eventually your advocates) you will do fine. It's hard to overstate the bonding with current residents piece. It has to happen organically, and you will see people trying force this and it becomes exceptionally uncomfortable for everyone.
    I wish you the very best of luck.
     
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  43. SalemK

    SalemK 7+ Year Member

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    Newer DO school, 220s/240s, passed PE first try, top 25% of class, nontrad, 5 sub-Is, all high pass
    Applied to 53 programs across the country, avoiding only inner-city programs, big-name programs I think wouldn't look at me, and places that have no current DO residents.
    Received 7 invites, 5 of which were at places I rotated.
    And I didn't match, which really surprised me -- I thought I had done everything I possibly could and felt pretty decent about my chances. I found out later that one of my SLOEs was "weird," even though the school eval was only positive, and I wonder how much this hurt me.
    I was able to find a good spot to land this year and I plan to work very hard and somehow go through all this again next year.

    Question: Do you think I should have received more interviews? Is there something wrong with me that I haven't yet figured out? I've spoken to a few other DOs who had similar stats and a similar number of interviews, but then again, they matched and I didn't.
     
  44. Whiteshoes

    Whiteshoes Member 7+ Year Member

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    I'm sorry to hear about your situation as a fellow DO. Yeah I bet it was that one weird sloe. PDs are just looking for reasons not to invite us. There was some eye brow raising/red flag in your sloe comments for sure for you to only get 2 (non-rotation) interviews. Keep your chin up and keep at it!
     
  45. EmergDoc2B

    EmergDoc2B 2+ Year Member

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    I'm assuming you had 5 SLOE's, so I'm wondering why the one SLOE screwed you. The reason I say this is because I had one wonky SLOE from an allo
    program brought to my attention during an interview but I had 2 other solid SLOE's that made the PD's looking at them question the ****ty one. If you had 5 then 1 should not have been a death sentence in my opinion.
    Stay positive and reload for next year!
     
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  46. alecseriously

    alecseriously 2+ Year Member

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    n=1, but someone from PCOM matched Duke EM this year.


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  47. Apollyon

    Apollyon Screw the GST Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    I'm telling you, as a Duke grad, they do NOT like DOs. I don't know what occurred this year, but do NOT hang your hat on that one. I GUARANTEE that the PD WILL get a talking to from the GME chief, reminding him of the "Duke tradition", and all that happy horse****.
     
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  48. MelMcT2009

    MelMcT2009

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    They've taken a few in the past as well
     
  49. Apollyon

    Apollyon Screw the GST Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    I was there when they did. That's when the message came down from above - "don't".
     
  50. MelMcT2009

    MelMcT2009

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    Will be interesting to see what happens in the next few years
     
  51. Apollyon

    Apollyon Screw the GST Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    Yes, but, if DOs get in, no matter how qualifed, it will be piecemeal. Trust me - I was the first FMG, and then there were two Carib FMGs after me (because of me), then, the hammer came down. Is it equitable? No. Is it just? No. But, it is what it is.
     

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