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DOs who don't put the letters on their white coat

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by Adapt, Mar 24, 2004.

  1. Adapt

    Adapt 2K Member
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    There is this one DO who doesn't have his name or the letters "DO" on his white coat. I am not sure why he doesn't have it.

    For me, I would be proud to put DO on my coat so patients would know they were being seen by a DO. I wouldn't want patients to think I was an MD, and if patients ask I would give them a brief explanation. It is the only way to get the word out in my opinion.

    So is this common place to not have DO on your coat or do many DOs do this?
     
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  3. crazy250

    crazy250 Senior Member
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    I think most DOs only put Dr. "so and so" instead of
    Dr. Slickness, DO
     
  4. Adapt

    Adapt 2K Member
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    Hey Crazy, I didn't know that. I guess whatever they feel like doing. I have seen some DOs with the letters behind their name as well. All I know is that it's going to be my name, then D.O. following it. :)
     
  5. raptor5

    raptor5 Fooled by Randomness
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    What I have seen at a particular academic hospital is just D.O. after their names. There is an occasion where they do not have anything on their coat. This was because it was a new white coat and the hospital had not gotten the embroidery work done to it yet. Actually when the new residents at the hospital started last year, all of their coats were blank. No name, letter, or hospital program on it. So maybe the doc you saw just had a new coat. I thought hospitals required those things if you were part of housestaff or faculty.

    Raptor5
     
  6. stomper627

    stomper627 Go Cougs!!!
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    It is improper English to list your name as Dr. John Smith, D.O.
    You EITHER say Dr. John Smith OR John Smith, D.O.
    It is a redundancy.....your calling yourself doctor twice.
    stomper
     
  7. Adapt

    Adapt 2K Member
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    The DO was part of a private practice so I'm not sure if his coat was new. Another DO worked with him and she didn't have DO on her jacket as well. Maybe it's their policy for all doctors not to put their name or degree on their coats.
     
  8. HooahDOc

    Physician 15+ Year Member

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    This is correct. I am amazed at how many doctoral-level educated people do this.
     
  9. raptor5

    raptor5 Fooled by Randomness
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    AH HAH. Now that I think about my PCP does not have his name on his coat, when he wears one. He knows his name and title as do the patients that comes to see him. I would imagine secretary would know his name and title aslo. I think it is probably only an issue in a hospital setting with hundreds of docs, nurses, PA's and the sort who can not possibly know each other or their tittles and depts.
     
  10. group_theory

    group_theory EX-TER-MIN-ATE!'
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    There are also legal requirements too

    In Pennsylvania
    http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/049/chapter25/subchapDtoc.html

    ? 25.212. Professional advertising.
    (a) Advertising in any medium is permitted if it is not misleading, deceptive, untrue or fraudulent on its face or by its effect in actual practice.

    (b) Advertising, letterhead, publications or transmissions shall designate or indicate the licensee?s school of medical practice by the term ??D.O.,?? ??doctor of osteopathy,?? ??osteopathic physician?? or ??osteopathic physician and surgeon.??

    Authority

    The provisions of this ? 25.212 issued under section 16 of the Osteopathic Medical Practice Act (63 P.S. ? 271.16); and section 902(b) of the Health Care Services Malpractice Act (40 P. S. ? 1301.902(b)).

    Source

    The provisions of this ? 25.212 adopted January 10, 1992, effective January 11, 1992, 22 Pa.B. 209.


    In California
    http://www.dca.ca.gov/osteopathic/osteo_regs.pdf

    Article 16. Use and Display of ?D.O.? Degree

    ?1685. Display of Name and Earned Degree.

    (a) Any licensee of the Board shall prominently display at the entrance to any facility in which he primarily practices, the name of the facility, the names of the licensees practicing therein, and their earned degree.

    (b) Any licensee of the Board shall designate himself by his earned degree ?D.O.,? and/or the term ?Osteopathic Physician and Surgeon,? and shall prominently display this designation on all printed materials employed in his practice relating to his licensed function as a physician and surgeon. A D.O. licensed by the Board shall not use the term ?M.D.?

    NOTE: Authority cited: Osteopathic Act (Initiative Measure, Stats. 1923, p. xciii), Section 1; and Section 3600-1, Business and Professions Code.

    Reference: Sections 2275, 2276, 2452 and 3600-2, Business and Professions Code. HISTORY 1. Repealer of Chapter 16 (Sections 1600-1697, not consecutive) and new Chapter 16 (Sections 1600-1697, not consecutive and Appendix) filed 12-10-87; operative 1-9-88 (Register 87, No. 52). For prior history, see Registers 81, No. 50; 81, No. 36; 81, No. 9; 80, No. 40; 78, No. 15; 77, No. 21; and 63, No. 25.
     
  11. Adapt

    Adapt 2K Member
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    Interesting. So by that, DOs who don't display DO on their white coat can be held legally liable?
     
  12. Eyecon82

    Eyecon82 Senior Member
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    So.....say I'm a research specialist at maybe a certain hospital...and I'm walking around with Dr. X around....I don't think it would be improper english to write Dr. X, PhD...this would signify immedietly that he's not a physician....but yet he's still a dr........some people really do include the "Doctor" in their name....almost like its permanent....and including the letters after ure name signifies what type of doctor you are....i dont think its being repetitive.

    Also...yes...we as premeds know the diff b/w md, do, phd, and all the other types of "doctors" out there....but you also have to think of the general public...when you are walkking around with John Smith, D.O.....guaranteed that the general patient would have no clue that you are a doctor...but when its Dr. John Smith, DO...

    actually i dont even know what im talking about...its too early in the morning..
     
  13. RalphMacchio

    RalphMacchio Member
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    :)

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Echinoidea

    Echinoidea Senior Member
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    Ah, Daniel-san, DO on, DO off. Miyagi says treat whole person, not just symptoms.
     
  15. Adapt

    Adapt 2K Member
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    Although it is incorrect English to say Dr. John Smith, DO. It does happen probably to signify that DO is a doctor.

    I remember watching that show 360 with Anderson Cooper on CNN. They were interviewing the head of some UC Davis nuerology program. For his name they put Dr. Name, DO (I forgot his name). Anyways, it looked wrong but I think they put the doctor to signify that DO was a doctor.

    I just thought it was cool that they were interviewing a DO.
     
  16. stomper627

    stomper627 Go Cougs!!!
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    It is still wrong....and poor English....
    I think it makes you look uneducated. Choose one or the other....but then again, if your target patient population is uneducated......what is that saying "when in Rome....."
    This is a stupid debate anyway...
    stomper
     
  17. Chrisobean

    Chrisobean The Killer Bean
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    this is really trivial, sorry slick. maybe the seamstress ran out of thread before she could stitch DO?
    there are a million reasons why its not on his coat, and i highly doubt that his osteopathic shame is one of them. but who really cares?
     
  18. Adapt

    Adapt 2K Member
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    I know it's a meaningless discussion but that doesn't mean it can't be discussed. It is just out of curiosity that I bring it up. I would point out that many threads on SDN are meaningless yet people respond to those. I would say that whole changing the DO to MDO was a meaningless discussion yet people didn't point that out.

    Anyways...
     
  19. Chrisobean

    Chrisobean The Killer Bean
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    actually, i only meant your posts were trivial..... :p

    its funny, you ask a silly question, and everyone gets all heated over it...

    CHILL OUT :hardy:
     
  20. PACtoDOC

    PACtoDOC 1K Member
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    Here is how I will be making my sign and name tag.
    Sign:
    Dr. Matthew M****
    Osteopathic Family Physician
    Board Certified, FABFP, FACOFP

    White Coat:
    Matthew M****, DO, MPAS, PA-C
    Family Medicine Resident


    I am still going to use my PA title because it was hard earned, respected, and I want my patients to know I have done both. I do think though that DO's have an obligation to wear the DO simply because the few people that do notice it will probably help to spread the word that they saw a very caring and unusually kind, compassionate physician. As a PA, after a year or so I quit worrying about having to explain what I was, and within a short period of time people were asking to see me because I was a PA. They felt like I explained things better and listened more. So as a DO, I can't imagine it would work to my disadvantage, but instead it will work to educate people and bring me new patients. Trust me on this, if having the very unknown initials PA-C after your name does not detract from your clientelle, then having the DO will only be better. And lastly, who really cares if it is proper English or not to have the title Dr. *** **** DO on a name tag. Who says it is improper English? Our language has routine flaws that are accepted in spoken and written word everyday. Did you realize that when you knock on someone's door and they ask who it is, that the proper response if you are with someone else is to say, "It is we"? Now who really says that? Everyone says, " It's us". So don't go overboard trying to interpret titles based on English rules. Wear whatever you want and worry about passing your boards until you get that point!!!
     
  21. Eyecon82

    Eyecon82 Senior Member
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    What the **** wrong with having a practice in an uneducated area? Did you forget your duties as a physician? serve the rich and the poor..
     
  22. (nicedream)

    (nicedream) Fitter Happier
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    He was just saying that just because you are treating uneducated patients doesn't mean you have to adjust your language/title accordingly.
     
  23. stomper627

    stomper627 Go Cougs!!!
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    Look my only point was why does it matter....????? I was merely pointing out why would you call yourself doctor twice? Dr. John Smith Dr.? That is essetially what one is doing. Yes, I know that slang has been incorporated into everyday speak, but why would you want to do it on your White Coat?
    There is nothing wrong with practicing in a uneducated area....thank you nicedream....at least you understood the cynicism. And if one chooses only to serve the rich...one can....and if one chooses to serve the poor, one can.
    stomper
     
  24. DOSouthpaw

    DOSouthpaw Senior Member
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    I have the title "Student Osteopath" under my name on my white coat. We complain that the AOA doesn't do enough to promote our profession, by putting this on my coat it begs people to ask, "What is an Osteopath?" and then I can tell them without the AOA spending millions to put it in a magizine or on TV.


    Later!
     
  25. (nicedream)

    (nicedream) Fitter Happier
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    What exactly do you say when you're trying to explain in a sentence or two?
     
  26. sophiejane

    sophiejane Exhausted
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    Dude, I don't know, you might have to pay extra for all those friggin' letters behind your name...

    I mean, think of all the extra thread, not to mention the extra hours of labor to get that alphabet soup on your coat.

    I think I will have mine will say...

    "Linda S******, DO, MMus"

    Just so my patients know that I can not only fix their somatic dysfunction, but I can also play the c*&% out of a cello. :)
     
  27. calcrew14

    calcrew14 Senior Member
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    I am torn threesome......I mean........threeways among Dr. :thumbup: Goodleadership, :thumbup: Goodleadership, D.O. and
    Dr. DoDO's DowhatDO'sshoulddoasaDO?, D.O. :confused:
     
  28. RalphMacchio

    RalphMacchio Member
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    Amen, brotha!

    [​IMG]
     
  29. RollTide

    RollTide Senior Member
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    You are actually supposed to put the degree you earned first...well first. If you are a D.M.D, M.D it implies you graduated from dental school first and then obtained your medical degree. So adding PA after the M.D. would actually be incorrect. There are sections on both the AMA and AOA websites that address this issue.
     
  30. Adapt

    Adapt 2K Member
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    That's the way I heard it.

    I've seen doctors just put Dr. Name, particularly for optometrists. This is another reason why I would rather have the letters behind my name, so that I don't get confused for another kind of doctor.
     
  31. PACtoDOC

    PACtoDOC 1K Member
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    Okay then, its:

    Matthew M####, MPAS, DO
    Department of Family Medicine

    Yes I agree this makes more sense and looks much better. But if this is the case, why do you always see:

    John Q. Citizen MD, PhD ???

    95% of the time this person earned the PhD first and the MD second. So how does this work? Oh well, I don't really think that matters.
     
  32. emedpa

    emedpa GlobalDoc
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    matt- I work with a guy who lists DO, PA-C, EMT-P
    on his lab coat. I cuurently list pa-c, emt-p on mine. I thought medic school was an accomplishment that deserves ongoing recognition( also the medics in the er are a lot friendlier when they know I was 1 of them).
     
  33. group_theory

    group_theory EX-TER-MIN-ATE!'
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    Well, this article might explain why you see people listed as "MD, PhD" or "MD, MS" or "DO, MPH". However, i think this article mainly refers to British Commonwealth tradition - but since we follow common law and lots of british traditions (like graduation gown, hood, motorboard, etc), it is reasonable to assume post-nominal usage stems from British tradition too.

    Group_theory
    Throwing gas into the flame :)


    P.S. - As you read this, remember that medical school is considered "undergraduate medical education" and is referenced as such by the AMA, AOA, LCME, and various medical journals. That's why residency is called "graduate medical education" and hence the designation GME. I don't necessarily agree with this, but that is the way it is referred.

    http://www.collegeofparamedics.org/news/2001/spring/postnom.htm

    All Those Postnominals
    By Glen Larson, CD, CHM, REMTP, AScEMS

    All those postnominals, those initials after ones name, do have meaning and are not just "chicken scratches" as they are often referred to by the uninitiated. Postnominals represent the achievements that one has obtained.
    The most common types of postnominals seen are those for academic degrees. Academic degrees are listed from the most junior to the most senior after the name. These are in order the Associate degree, Bachelor, Master and Doctorate degree. Associate degrees are mainly of American origin; however, some Ontario and British Columbia institutions are awarding these degrees. By the way, degrees are not issued just by universities, but also by colleges and institutions, the most famous being the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

    Of note is that the degree of Medical Doctor (MD), Latin Medicinae Doctor, is an undergraduate (Bachelor level) degree in North America. British institutions issue a Bachelor of Medicine (MB), Latin Medicinae Baccalaureus, as well as a true doctorate in medicine equivalent in level to the Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D), Latin Philosophiae Doctor. A dental degree is also an undergraduate degree. This particularity results for those with MD or DDS postnominals listing graduate degrees of a Master of Science (MSc) or Master of Public Health (MPH) after a degree incorrectly interpreted as a doctorate! Although it may take several years to obtain and many could and do obtain additional degrees during their study, this is still an undergraduate degree without the thesis and dissertation required for a graduate degree.

    The legal degree, Bachelor of Laws (LL.B.), Latin Legum Baccalaureus, is also an undergraduate degree; however, feeling pressure to be equated the same status as medical doctors, one sees the development in the United States of the undergraduate legal degree of Doctor of Justice, Latin Justitia Doctor.
    Now this being said, the medical profession, as well as others such as accountants and engineers, have additional postnominals that are often listed. Fellow of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons (FRCPS), Charter Accountant (CA), and Professional Engineer (PEng) are a few. These are not issued by educational institutions but by professional bodies. However, these achievements require some form of additional study and examination, thus are considered as forms of academic degrees and listed like graduate degrees for ordering as postnominals. These additional professional designations are, as well, becoming more common for other professions, like nursing and education.

    Academic qualifications listed as a certificate (Cert.) or diploma (Dip.) may also be listed. Usually these are junior and listed before a degree; however, one may obtain a diploma or certificate at the undergraduate or postgraduate level, leading to variance in ordering postnominals.

    The most senior degree is that of a doctorate, seen often as the Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D), Latin Philosophiae Doctor. Other areas of scholarship also have doctorate degrees, such as Doctor of Letters (Litt.D.), Latin Litteranum Doctor. The Doctor of Laws (LL.D.), Latin legum doctor, is usually given as an honourary degree. However, there are institutions that actually grant this formal degree.

    Senior to academic degrees in listing of postnominals is active registrations. The well-known postnominal for a Registered Nurse (RN) is in this category, as would postnominals of our profession, EMT and EMT-P.
    Registrations require active participation and thus may be lost, which give rise to the seniority of this category, listed before academic degrees.

    The most senior category for listing of postnominals are those of honours for orders, decorations and medals. These are issued by governments, sovereigns and some private authorities. The specific order for listing these postnominals are usually outlined by the issuing authority, with those issued from one's own government first, then other governments and other authorities. The most noted postnominal in this category is that for the Victoria Cross (VC). British peerage knighthoods, for which Canadians are ineligible, are also in this category. The British Venerable Order of Saint John of Jerusalem grants knighthoods to Canadians. However, these do not create peerage. Canadians are also eligible to receive foreign and private knighthoods for these also do not create peerage.

    For many the correct ordering of postnominals will be of little concern, listing only one or rarely moving in society where postnominals are in common usage. For others, correct ordering of their postnominals reflects on the completeness of knowledge in this area. One may list only part of their postnominals to avoid confusion, with the Americans listing only the most senior degree. However in the true British tradition, all postnominals are listed. After one's name is first honours, then registrations, and last, academic degrees.
     

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