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http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2009/01/05/prca0105.htm
Don't really know what to make of this one...
Wow thats pretty damn stupid. If I was that doctor I would take it up to the supreme court!
Wow.. thanks for making me really angry before bedtime. This person who sued the doctor should be thrown in a jail cell to rot for the rest of their life for being such a greedy POS. Why should the doctor have to pay for the interpreter? If you want to see the doctor, PAY FOR ONE YOURSELF.
This type of disability suit garbage is nothing more than people cashing in on their disabilities and using them to get outrageously wealthy. This stuff happens in pharmacies, where one guy in a wheel chair can't get through the aisles so he sues the poor, hardworking bastard who runs an independent pharmacy for everything he's worth and wins because juries are stupid and there's plenty of scum lawyers willing to take their cases for free so they can cash in on a big settlement as well.
America is such a dumb nation, look at stupid things we let slide in this country.
"No one disagrees there should be effective communication. ... The question is, how does public policy justify physicians bearing the cost [of a more expensive interpreter service] when reimbursement doesn't come close to covering it?" Downs asked.
Gerena had argued to the jury that the annual cost of a sign language interpreter amounted to less than a quarter of a percent of Dr. Fogari's yearly income.
American Disabilities Act says that we have to accommodate people with disabilities. Civil rights acts says that we have to provide foreign language services to interpret for people for whom English is not their first language. Never thought about how this would affect doctors running their own practices though...that is a HUGE expense.
The ADA should be taken off the books. The Civil Rights Act does not say that have to provide foreign language services for people, the law simply makes provisions for those dealing with the government services, not private companies.
This is all a bunch of garbage, and anyone with any sense of rationality can see that. Everyone thinks they are entitled to everything and I just pray that someday people will realize that life isn't fair, and you can't make other people miserable because of your own misfortune
This type of disability suit garbage is nothing more than people cashing in on their disabilities and using them to get outrageously wealthy. This stuff happens in pharmacies, where one guy in a wheel chair can't get through the aisles so he sues the poor, hardworking bastard who runs an independent pharmacy for everything he's worth and wins because juries are stupid and there's plenty of scum lawyers willing to take their cases for free so they can cash in on a big settlement as well.
The ADA should be taken off the books. The Civil Rights Act does not say that have to provide foreign language services for people, the law simply makes provisions for those dealing with the government services, not private companies.
This is all a bunch of garbage, and anyone with any sense of rationality can see that. Everyone thinks they are entitled to everything and I just pray that someday people will realize that life isn't fair, and you can't make other people miserable because of your own misfortune
how big of a difference would it be for someone to write than to use sign language. .
While I think this law suit is ridiculous, this is a horrible statement. American Sign Language is a language in itself - it has a distinct grammar and structure. It is not simply a bunch of hand gestures. Writing should not be a substitute, just like yelling and gesticulating at a hearing person who speaks a different langauge is not a substitute for an interpreter.
I went to a deaf magnet school and had deaf friends and teachers. Just because the language isn't spoken, doesn't mean its not a language in itself and that they don't deserve the same rights as someone that speaks Spanish.
While I think this law suit is ridiculous, this is a horrible statement. American Sign Language is a language in itself - it has a distinct grammar and structure. It is not simply a bunch of hand gestures. Writing should not be a substitute, just like yelling and gesticulating at a hearing person who speaks a different langauge is not a substitute for an interpreter.
When you have a patient asking for something and you ignore it, then you're either immoral or an entitled doctor. After the first request he should have either gotten an auxiliary device or transferred the patient. I am willing to bet that the reason this doctor was sued was because he did not treat his patient well - just like most of his patients. Studies have shown that patients sue doctors not because of "malpractice," but because of the "feeling" of harm - e.g., being ignored, patronized, etc. I don't know when will doctors get off their high chair. If you want to have a feel about what I am talking about, take a look at this ridiculous thread: Quacks. Guys, as long as you think that all your patients are worthless loaders and treat them as such, all doctors are going to suffer. That's because the jury, the judge, the prosecutor are patients too! Think about that if any of you sometime in the future decide to call anyone a quack or mistreat them somehow in any way, especially if you lack solid evidence. Somehow I am not too sure that this case will be overturned. Doctors have really dug themselves into a deep resentment hole....Over the course of about 20 office visits, Gerena claimed in court documents that she repeatedly asked Dr. Fogari to provide a sign language interpreter, but was rebuffed...
...accommodations include a range of so-called auxiliary aids that doctors can use, including note-takers or video or computer-based transcription devices, which can be less expensive than an interpreter service...
...Gerena had a sign language interpreter service call Dr. Fogari to offer its services and inform him of the law and Gerena's need...
...Doctors also can receive tax credits for providing such services...
The ADA should be taken off the books. The Civil Rights Act does not say that have to provide foreign language services for people, the law simply makes provisions for those dealing with the government services, not private companies.
This is all a bunch of garbage, and anyone with any sense of rationality can see that. Everyone thinks they are entitled to everything and I just pray that someday people will realize that life isn't fair, and you can't make other people miserable because of your own misfortune
Interesting. While the patient was awarded way too much, the doctor in this case wasn't that bright either:
When you have a patient asking for something and you ignore it, then you're either immoral or an entitled doctor. After the first request he should have either gotten an auxiliary device or transferred the patient. I am willing to bet that the reason this doctor was sued was because he did not treat his patient well - just like most of his patients. Studies have shown that patients sue doctors not because of "malpractice," but because of the "feeling" of harm - e.g., being ignored, patronized, etc. I don't know when will doctors get off their high chair. If you want to have a feel about what I am talking about, take a look at this ridiculous thread: Quacks. Guys, as long as you think that all your patients are worthless loaders and treat them as such, all doctors are going to suffer. That's because the jury, the judge, the prosecutor are patients too! Think about that if any of you sometime in the future decide to call anyone a quack or mistreat them somehow in any way, especially if you lack solid evidence. Somehow I am not too sure that this case will be overturned. Doctors have really dug themselves into a deep resentment hole.
While I think this law suit is ridiculous, this is a horrible statement. American Sign Language is a language in itself - it has a distinct grammar and structure. It is not simply a bunch of hand gestures. Writing should not be a substitute, just like yelling and gesticulating at a hearing person who speaks a different langauge is not a substitute for an interpreter.
I went to a deaf magnet school and had deaf friends and teachers. Just because the language isn't spoken, doesn't mean its not a language in itself and that they don't deserve the same rights as someone that speaks Spanish.
What a series of ridiculous statements.
Those who speak ASL it in the USA can also generally read the English language. Yelling and gesticulating at someone who speaks a different language is in no way analogous - said person speaking the different language will have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say. Unless the deaf woman is illiterate, she'll understand just fine.
At the core, the issue is understanding. I just had laryngitis for the last six days, which meant I communicated by typing and writing notes. Guess what, people could still understand me just fine, because they were literate, and all of the English language can be transferred into paper with perfect precision and clarity.
You always manage to one-up yourself in proselytizing, obnoxious posts. Congratulations.
You can't really believe that, can you?
if a deaf person tried to communicate with someone who doesn't use sign language, wouldn't it be common sense to write?
I don't get the whole foreign language thing. If I immigrate to China, not being able to speak a word of it, now I can start demanding that everyone accommodate me by providing English translators? When you come to a country, you ASSIMILATE by learning the language. We are the only country dumb enough to try and make every single individual comfortable.
The core is not understanding. While people who use ASL can read English, the point is not making ASL a second class language because a common medium (written language) exists. The deaf community deserves interpreters just as much as any other non-English speaking group. Interpreters are not just language translaters, they are also cultural brokers (to steal from Spirit Catches You) and there are sensitive topics that exist in the deaf community that should be dealt with by someone who understands. I'm not saying this was the case here, or that this case is even valid (I definitely think lawsuits like this are ridiculous and I hope I don't have to deal with this crap as a doctor), but I am saying that this is a common and legitimate issue faced in the deaf community.
At the same time, it may be an honest mistake because she isnt his only god damn patient. He might have to deal with 100 people a day, and just because one has special needs and is evoking some sort of inconvenient law because she is too ****ing lazy to read doesnt mean the doctor is bad at his job or treats his patients poorly. Similarly judgements should not be made about how the jury feels, but rather what the law says about the matter. And I find it hard ot believe that written English, a language and media form the patient understands and comprehends perfectly, was not clear enough to convey the information she wanted.
The core is not understanding. While people who use ASL can read English, the point is not making ASL a second class language because a common medium (written language) exists. The deaf community deserves interpreters just as much as any other non-English speaking group. Interpreters are not just language translaters, they are also cultural brokers (to steal from Spirit Catches You) and there are sensitive topics that exist in the deaf community that should be dealt with by someone who understands. I'm not saying this was the case here, or that this case is even valid (I definitely think lawsuits like this are ridiculous and I hope I don't have to deal with this crap as a doctor), but I am saying that this is a common and legitimate issue faced in the deaf community.
Oh and I won't need a statement like this following my post. I understand that you think everyone else's opinions are invalid and erroneous compared to yours.
You're right. It's such an open political environment in China, and everyone just seems so happy because of all the rights they lack...We are totally missing out...
and minorities have it soo easy in this country, its quite unbelievable
So how about any other country in the world? I could have used any non-English speaking country and my point would've been just as valid.
I don't get the whole foreign language thing. If I immigrate to China, not being able to speak a word of Chinese, can I start demanding that everyone accommodate me by providing English translators? When you come to a country, you ASSIMILATE by learning the language. We are the only country dumb enough to try and make every single individual comfortable.
where did I imply that?
I should note that I am the Vice President of our local chapter of the NAACP. I'm the last person who thinks minorities have it "easy."
Your sarcasm didn't invalidate my point at all, in fact it had nothing to do with anything I said. In essence, you failed. Nice try
Neither would I! Most people don't use the ADA to sue/"get rich" but rather to have form of mandate of some degree of accommodation--otherwise, NO ONE would do anything in regards to accessibility.I have a whole side of my family who is disabled (3 paraplegics) , and none of them would ever sue somebody because they couldn't fit into a store. They'd go somewhere else. Yeah it sucks, but you don't get to become rich just because you have a disability.
But you didn't. There is nothing wrong with the ADA. Just because sometimes people use litigation to abuse the first amendment doesn't mean we should throw that out as well.
Assimilation is a good thing. It's what turns a nation into a nation. The notion that assimilation entails the majority destroying the minority's culture is incorrect. The minority integrates its culture into that of the majority, and everyone is enriched in the process - it's why pizza, whiskey, and sushi are so ubiquitous today, instead of being relegated to small subsets of society.
Assimilation is a good thing. It's what turns a nation into a nation. The notion that assimilation entails the majority destroying the minority's culture is incorrect. The minority integrates its culture into that of the majority - it's why pizza, cream cheese & lox, and sushi are so ubiquitous.
But I didn't? So what? There was a point to my analogy. So because I didn't use another example in my analogy, that makes the point behind it completely invalid?
This is what happens when you have a law that is so broad as the ADA. People take advantage of it. If you don't have a law, you don't have people taking advantage of it and ruining other peoples lives. There is no law, hence no misuse of it.
The First Amendment is not nearly as broad as the ADA is. Further, the 1st Amendment protects /rights/. A right is something that you are entitled to but does not place any obligations onto other people. The ADA is well meaning but unfortunately opens the door to this kind of ridiculousness.
If people had common sense, this would never have to go down like this. There is a difference between someone having their individual rights violated (and by rights, I mean literal rights - I mean life, liberty, and safety) and someone not being provided an expensive service to make them more comfortable. If they want the service, they can pay for it themselves.
A melting pot is assimilation. We're not talking hive-mind, Borg-assimilation here, but the normal assimilation of a culture into a more dominant culture. The dominant one will form the foundation and the backbone, but the second culture will maintain many of its important aspects and integrate itself wonderfully. And, as I don't feel like getting further entangled in a game of semantics, let's get back to the original point - a melting pot cannot exist if people don't speak the same language and are unable to communicate with each other.
A melting pot is assimilation. We're not talking hive-mind, Borg-assimilation here, but the normal assimilation of a culture into a more dominant culture. The dominant one will form the foundation and the backbone, but the second culture will maintain many of its important aspects and integrate itself wonderfully. And, as I don't feel like getting further entangled in a game of semantics, let's get back to the original point - a melting pot cannot exist if people don't speak the same language and are unable to communicate with each other.
You are demanding assimilation. When people assimilate to the dominant paradigm, they lose their own culture, their uniqueness, their own identity.
CRB said:We have a freaking long way to go man. Whether you are disables, a racial minority or a sexual minority...you are facing an uphill battle.
Funny you should say that. I just hired a new treasurer from France who didn't speak a word of English until about 2 months ago. The first thing he did when he got here was hire a language tutor so he could learn the language. Don't worry - he still drinks wine and eats brie and says he didn't lose any of his culture in the assimilation process (he happens to live next door to me, so I went over and showed him the thread and asked him myself)... so I guess theres not much more to say other than you might want to employ some more critical thinking into your arguement and less emotional reactivity. But thanks for the good arguement, it was highly stimulating.LOL tell your NAACP friends how you feel about assimilation.
Your point actually makes no sense whatsoever. By immigrating to a foreign nation, you are losing a little bit of your culture already in favor of becoming part of the one you are moving into. And by the way, assimilating doesn't destroy your own uniqueness and culture... that's ridiculous. You can look at Retsage's post for a full and complete rebuttal to your obviously ridiculous statement.
What does that have to do with assimilation? When did I ever say that being a racial minority, being gay or transgendered, or being deaf/blind/disabled wasn't hard? What does that have to do with anything?
So because I disagree with a law that basically opens the door to widespread fraud, I'm a racist/homophobe/insensitive towards people with disabilities? I think that is pretty ignorant of you to suggest and actually just an unfair (and dishonest) tactic to try and marginalize someone with an opposing opinion. It's like saying that just because someone doesn't agree with affirmative action, that they are racists... come on now.
Funny you should say that. I just hired a new treasurer from France who didn't speak a word of English until about 2 months ago. The first thing he did when he got here was hire a language tutor so he could learn the language. Don't worry - he still drinks wine and eats brie and says he didn't lose any of his culture in the assimilation process (he happens to live next door to me, so I went over and showed him the thread and asked him myself)... so I guess theres not much more to say other than you might want to employ some more critical thinking into your arguement and less emotional reactivity. But thanks for the good arguement, it was highly stimulating.