Driving 3 hours for a job interview with a CMG - should I ask them to pay for gas?

[theWUbear]

Hi all,

I'm a senior resident on the job trail for the first time. I have a CMG offering to fly me to a site and rent me a car while there. Only issue is, airport is 1 hour 20 minutes from my house, then there's a one hour flight, and all the mess associated with it, while on the other hand....

it's just a 2 hour 40 minute drive from my house to the site. Way less hassle to not fly, and tremendous savings on their end.

Should I
1) Just inform them I"ll be driving and leave it at that
2) Ask them if they'd like to book a car rental at my location for me for 2 days, I go pick up the car and I drive to the site and back in a rental car (so I'm not using my personal car, accumulating wear, etc.) and somehow ask them to cover me with a travel stipend for gas
3) Ask them to just give me whatever they feel is an appropriate travel stipend for me utilizing my own car and the gas I'll need to cover the mileage between my home and the site?

Thanks so much for the recommendations. I realize the importance of not being petty with someone when you're attempting to look your best in the job interview environment. Just want to know what is common practice in this scenario as it's my first time going through this

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Perrotfish]

5 hours of driving is probably 300-400 miles. Depending on what you drive that' 5-10 gallons of gas, which means $15-30. Asking to be reimburse $15 seems petty to me. Asking for them to rent you a car so that you don't need to use your own is equally petty, costs them more, and leaves them wondering if you own a vehicle that can get you to work.

I would either just tell them you are driving or, if you really can't bear to spend the money, then suck it up and do the drive-fly-rent-drive thing they origionally proposed and save $10 worth of gas.

 

[TheSingularity]

I would cancel the interview, as it's with a CMG.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Most companies have a mileage reimbursement rate, usually that is well above the cost of gas. They would likely reimburse $100-200 or so I’d guess.

I’d just ask them if they reimburse for mileage if you didnt fly and drove your own car. Im sure they would, it would save them money.

 

[BoardingDoc]

5 hours of driving is probably 300-400 miles. Depending on what you drive that' 5-10 gallons of gas, which means $15-30. Asking to be reimburse $15 seems petty to me. Asking for them to rent you a car so that you don't need to use your own is equally petty, costs them more, and leaves them wondering if you own a vehicle that can get you to work.

I would either just tell them you are driving or, if you really can't bear to spend the money, then suck it up and do the drive-fly-rent-drive thing they origionally proposed and save $10 worth of gas.

300-400 miles .... 5-10 gallons of gas? What the hell magic car are you driving that gets a minimum of 30mpg and up to 80mpg?

Also, you aren't factoring in wear and tear on the car, which is generally somewhere around 40-50c/mile. OP should just ask for a mileage reimbursement.

 

[theWUbear]

I would cancel the interview, as it's with a CMG.

You hiring at ~275-300/hr IC in a tax-free state? Would love to go with a SDG, and/or not practice in the for-profit hospital side. I have striked out with my attempts at finding openings with SDGs in TX, FL thus far - though I have reached out to many

 

[wholeheartedly]

Our facilities mileage reimbursement is currently 0.58 per mile. So 350 miles is over $200.

 

[Listen2Savage]

You hiring at ~275-300/hr IC in a tax-free state? Would love to go with a SDG, and/or not practice in the for-profit hospital side. I have striked out with my attempts at finding openings with SDGs in TX, FL thus far - though I have reached out to many

IC?

 

[TheSingularity]

Depends on what the best non CMG offer is. Did you factor in cost of health insurance?

You hiring at ~275-300/hr IC in a tax-free state? Would love to go with a SDG, and/or not practice in the for-profit hospital side. I have striked out with my attempts at finding openings with SDGs in TX, FL thus far - though I have reached out to many

Sent from my Pixel 3 using SDN mobile

 

[dchristismi]

300-400 miles .... 5-10 gallons of gas? What the hell magic car are you driving that gets a minimum of 30mpg and up to 80mpg?

My magic Prius gets 500 miles on a full tank (~10 gallons), but it's MY magic Prius. Your magic Prius may vary. And he might have a Tesla...

 

[Perrotfish]

What the hell magic car are you driving that gets a minimum of 30mpg and up to 80mpg?

I don't know what kind of car OP is driving, thus the range. He might be getting 70 mpg in a prius or 20 mpg in an oversized truck. My point is that even the absolute worst case scenario, and even factoring in wear and tear, this is still cheap enough that I wouldn't ask about it. If he was applying for a job as an MA I would feel differently, but he's a physician. Is he really going to risk annoying a future employer to recover a payment equal to less than an hour of work?

 

[Rendar5]

I don't know what kind of car OP is driving, thus the range. He might be getting 70 mpg in a prius or 20 mpg in an oversized truck. My point is that even the absolute worst case scenario, and even factoring in wear and tear, this is still cheap enough that I wouldn't ask about it. If he was applying for a job as an MA I would feel differently, but he's a physician. Is he really going to risk annoying a future employer to recover a payment equal to less than an hour of work?

reimbursement is usually around $0.55/mile (tax deduction rates). He’s looking at >$100 of reimbursement, not $15. If they were going to payfor a flight and a car rental, they’ll pay for private vehicle reimbursement. They won’t care, it’s the cmg business office dealing with it, not a non-business ED director.

If this were a SDG, I would completely agree with you. Wouldn’t want to piss off a director. But CMG will look at it purely as a business expense.

 

[Perrotfish]

You hiring at ~275-300/hr IC in a tax-free state? Would love to go with a SDG, and/or not practice in the for-profit hospital side. I have striked out with my attempts at finding openings with SDGs in TX, FL thus far - though I have reached out to many

Please remember that these states aren't 'tax free'. They just shifted their tax generation to sales and property taxes. I think Texas now has the second highest property tax in the nation? Unless you are planning to commute in from out of state that's not necessarily an advantage.

Alaska is a tax free state. No sales tax, no income tax, low property tax. If that's a thing for you look into Alaska

 

[DokterMom]

Most companies have a mileage reimbursement rate, usually that is well above the cost of gas. They would likely reimburse $100-200 or so I’d guess.

I’d just ask them if they reimburse for mileage if you didnt fly and drove your own car. Im sure they would, it would save them money.

This is fine. You get two short sentences or one mid-length before you begin to sound petty, so rehearse and accept whatever answer they give you.

Please remember that these states aren't 'tax free'. They just shifted their tax generation to sales and property taxes. I think Texas now has the second highest property tax in the nation? Unless you are planning to commute in from out of state that's not necessarily an advantage.

Alaska is a tax free state. No sales tax, no income tax, low property tax. If that's a thing for you look into Alaska

You ain't kidding. My property taxes are >$20K/yr.

 

[deleted547339]

Dude. It’s under a couple hundred bucks. You’d spend money on airport food, parking, whatever. It’s the cost of doing business. Eat it.

 

[RustedFox]

I would cancel the interview, as it's with a CMG.

Not exactly a helpful response.
Its not like non-predatory SDG jobs are just falling out of the sky.

 

[TheSingularity]

If the going rate in this market is 275/hr, I'd be willing to bet there's a quasi/community-academic or hospital employed group that's close by for just a little less money with added benefit of not selling your soul.

 

[cyanide12345678]

It's okay to do just mileage, the people who handle that kind of reimbursement are not really involved in hiring decisions. It's a cmg, not a sdg. They probably have a whole different department that deals with travel costs and reimbursements.

Also i don't understand where this 300-400 mile figure is coming from. OP is 2 hrs 40 minutes away. That's probably 200 miles at best. Mileage reimbursement at $0.58 per mile is basically $116.

It's your decision whether that is worth it to you. If you feel embarrassed to ask for mileage, it's perfectly appropriate to rent a car and send them the bill. I personally wouldn't hesitate sending them the bill for a rental car. In that case, i would not send them gas bills or miles, at max gas will cost you 15-25 bucks.

Personally, i would feel less hesitation in sending a rental car bill than sending mileage information. That's probably what i would have done.

 

[Porfirio]

No income tax states are a huge benefit. Just drive the residency car and live in a small house to avoid the high property tax and fees the state puts on you. Pay down your debt, save money, then move to the location you want.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Also i don't understand where this 300-400 mile figure is coming from. OP is 2 hrs 40 minutes away. That's probably 200 miles at best. Mileage reimbursement at $0.58 per mile is basically $116.

Round trip.

 

[EctopicFetus]

The irs sets the mileage reimbursement rate.

 

[pkwraith]

In vast majoirty of cases, the employer should be covering any of your travel expenses including mileage. This includes CMG, large SDGs, hospital employment. I was a little nerous when I first started interviewing, but you get familiar with asking in an professional manner, and by the time I was finished with my interviews, I pretty much just cancelled the small amount of groups that refuse to cover expenses.

 

[TheSingularity]

They should. But a lot don't

In vast majoirty of cases, the employer should be covering any of your travel expenses including mileage. This includes CMG, large SDGs, hospital employment. I was a little nerous when I first started interviewing, but you get familiar with asking in an professional manner, and by the time I was finished with my interviews, I pretty much just cancelled the small amount of groups that refuse to cover expenses.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using SDN mobile

 

[RustedFox]

If the going rate in this market is 275/hr, I'd be willing to bet there's a quasi/community-academic or hospital employed group that's close by for just a little less money with added benefit of not selling your soul.

Maybe. Maybe not.
Folks that find a needle in a haystack are often the most vociferous on here about the evils that are CMGs.
Lets see you work for the SDGs in my (and 99% of other) markets out there.
140 bucks an hour and 20+ nightshifts for two years until you make partner.
Two years later:
"Whoops. You didn't make partner."
Byyyyeee.

 

[TheSingularity]

Definitely predatory SDGs out there, and if it were choice of working for one of them vs the CMG I would also choose the CMG.

However, speaking as someone who's worked a CMG for a bit, I can say that they are awful and I am glad to take a 50/hr pay cut to work in a better setting.

Maybe. Maybe not.
Folks that find a needle in a haystack are often the most vociferous on here about the evils that are CMGs.
Lets see you work for the SDGs in my (and 99% of other) markets out there.
140 bucks an hour and 20+ nightshifts for two years until you make partner.
Two years later:
"Whoops. You didn't make partner."
Byyyyeee.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using SDN mobile

 

[Birdstrike]

Only demand gas money if you don’t want the job.

 

[RuralEDDoc]

Agree with bird strike. How badly do you need gas money? Skip Starbucks for a week.

 

[Janders]

Massive CMG already offering to fly you out, put you up, and rent a car?

Send a friendly email stating its easier for you to drive, but wouldn't mind a gas reimbursement!

Odds are they won't be offended.

But yeah... they might be. They might find you "cheap". Same way they may judge the outfit you wear to the interview.

Your call regarding your risk tolerance....

 

[deleted109597]

Maybe. Maybe not.
Folks that find a needle in a haystack are often the most vociferous on here about the evils that are CMGs.
Lets see you work for the SDGs in my (and 99% of other) markets out there.
140 bucks an hour and 20+ nightshifts for two years until you make partner.
Two years later:
"Whoops. You didn't make partner."
Byyyyeee.

Find me any within 100 miles of my house. Not just predatory, but any.
I'll wait.

Some people really have an odd sense about the world.

 

[RustedFox]

Find me any within 100 miles of my house. Not just predatory, but any.
I'll wait.

Some people really have an odd sense about the world.

I know.

I love it when these MS-3s come on here and say things like: "I'm only going to join and indie demo (sic) group near a ski resort or on the west coast."

Yeah. Good luck, kiddo.

 

[alpinism]

I know.

I love it when these MS-3s come on here and say things like: "I'm only going to join and indie demo (sic) group near a ski resort or on the west coast."

Yeah. Good luck, kiddo.

Even better are the MS4s on the interview trail.

After I finish residency at Cook County I'm working for an SDG in Denver making 500K a year!

 

[Rekt]

I know.

I love it when these MS-3s come on here and say things like: "I'm only going to join and indie demo (sic) group near a ski resort or on the west coast."

Yeah. Good luck, kiddo.

Even better are the MS4s on the interview trail.

After I finish residency at Cook County I'm working for an SDG in Denver making 500K a year!

Nobody says this.

It's much worse. They don't even know what CMGs and SDGs are. Also, not sure why the sudden massive hate for SDGs. Sorry you guys got burned, but maybe trying to keep SDGs around will help stop the profession from becoming complete garbage.

 

[TheSingularity]

Dude I know academic attendings who don't who what the term "CMG" means.

Also I don't think it's hatred for SDGs so much as predatory SDGs.

Nobody says this.

It's much worse. They don't even know what CMGs and SDGs are. Also, not sure why the sudden massive hate for SDGs. Sorry you guys got burned, but maybe trying to keep SDGs around will help stop the profession from becoming complete garbage.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using SDN mobile

 

[RustedFox]

Nobody says this.

It's much worse. They don't even know what CMGs and SDGs are. Also, not sure why the sudden massive hate for SDGs. Sorry you guys got burned, but maybe trying to keep SDGs around will help stop the profession from becoming complete garbage.

Uh.
Yes they do, amigo.
Hang out here with us long enough and you'll see a few of these.

But agree with you on all other points.

 

[deleted109597]

Also, not sure why the sudden massive hate for SDGs. Sorry you guys got burned, but maybe trying to keep SDGs around will help stop the profession from becoming complete garbage.

I can't hate something that doesn't exist. That's the point. There are not hundreds upon hundreds of them left anymore. And as hospitals continue to combine into larger systems, SDGs will continue to fall as they suddenly can't staff rural BFE with their boarded docs wanting $270 an hour. So the system dumps them.
Predatory ones are even worse than CMGs. At least CMGs will pay a new grad.

 

[RustedFox]

Veers has got it right.
Transparency and a "Bill of Rights" would help, but ACEP is so owned by the CMGs that this won't happen until ACEP grows a set and truly has OUR best interest in mind.

 

[deleted836128]

Just...don't. I have a heavy hand in hiring in my group (at least with the PAs, anyway) and if someone asked for gas money, it would annoy me and my medical director greatly. From your standpoint it's probably just money you don't want to spend. From the standpoint of the person who would be judging you for this, they might find you cheap and a little selfish, and something like this could indicate that you might be a pain in the a$$ employee always focused on personal gain rather than the group as a whole...not a good look.

 

[emergentmd]

I would ask for Mileage and Also hotel. You gotta eat, send them your food tab. If its a nice city, stay the night enjoy.

They will pay. They don't care. Noone interviewing you or hiring will care.

 

[thegenius]

You are going to be making > $400K / year for the next 25-30 years. Why ask for reimbursement for $100-200? It's the cost of trying to find a job. I would take only what they are willing to reimburse you for.

just me

 

[Birdstrike]

Even better are the MS4s on the interview trail.

After I finish residency at Cook County I'm working for an SDG in Denver making 500K a year!

EM MS4 social media:

"F- that. I'm finding the 100 hours per month job, with no nights, low acuity, chill admin and trendy location for $400K. I'm #BurnoutProof, ho's"

 

[deleted109597]

You are going to be making > $400K / year for the next 25-30 years. Why ask for reimbursement for $100-200? It's the cost of trying to find a job. I would take only what they are willing to reimburse you for.

just me

OTOH, if they aren't offering you anything, they're trying to cheat you. Nobody in this field interviews for free.
If they're willing to cover airfare, it's appropriate to ask for mileage instead. If they're not willing to cover anything, DON'T INTERVIEW THERE.

 

[emergentmd]

I kno

You are going to be making > $400K / year for the next 25-30 years. Why ask for reimbursement for $100-200? It's the cost of trying to find a job. I would take only what they are willing to reimburse you for.

just me

Not including time, the trip will cost you $100 (food, gas). You are a poor resident. They are a billion cap CMG.

Where is the issue?

If Bill gates wants to hire me, I sure as hell won't be paying my own way.

 

[thegenius]

Well man, I guess OP has multiple opinions on this.

OP, what did you decide to do?

 

[gro2001]

How messed up a business must you be to not be able to handle a simple business expense reimbursement request? Annoyed at the request? What other requests of the employee would they be annoyed at if they were to hire you? Seems like a red flag. Working for an organization that has their **** together is hugely beneficial. This is one of the ways you see if they do. If they can't meet even the very low threshold of being able to be flexible with reimbursing these low business expenses then they are likely to be the same organization that makes mistakes in scheduling, and loses paperwork, and doesn't answer emails on time, and has non functioning printers and other stupid things like that.

 

[theWUbear]

They offered to pay for gas - they don't reimburse by the mile. They said keep receipts. It's a team health spot.

I guess I have a very fuel efficient car - round trip was a little over one tank of gas. $30 total for 400 miles. The job is #3 on my ranking of offers right now (keeping the opportunity open in case its needed, but close to signing with job #1). The recruiter is separated from the director, so I wouldn't mind showing her the receipts, and its irritating that I'm hemorrhaging funds paying for licenses right now (gearing up to moonlight in state A, licensing myself in states B and C where I want to work with notoriously long licensing processes), but I guess I'll eat the $30 lol.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Maybe. Maybe not.
Folks that find a needle in a haystack are often the most vociferous on here about the evils that are CMGs.
Lets see you work for the SDGs in my (and 99% of other) markets out there.
140 bucks an hour and 20+ nightshifts for two years until you make partner.
Two years later:
"Whoops. You didn't make partner."
Byyyyeee.

My SDG has dedicated night docs. I haven't worked one night in the last six months

but I hear they get paid pretty sweet. Two guys in my group who do nights are retiring and they're literally taking applications to fill the night spots from within the group. Dunno what the diff is, but I'm not terribly interested to find out

won't dispute that pre-partner salary though @_@ That's why I still moonlight at a CMG for double my SDG pay to make up some of the difference until my hourly rate exceeds my CMG rate

 

[deleted109597]

won't dispute that pre-partner salary though @_@ That's why I still moonlight at a CMG for double my SDG pay to make up some of the difference until my hourly rate exceeds my CMG rate

Are you guaranteed partner?
In writing?

 

[CliveStaples]

Are you guaranteed partner?
In writing?

I'm glad I'm not the only one that heard he was getting half the "market rate" and thought "oh boy."

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Are you guaranteed partner?
In writing?

lol no

Taking a risk for max dollars

no point in speculating, you don't know what is going to happen. Neither do I. Only time will tell.

This is my job, mind you, I'm well aware what I'm doing. Reading this site for over a decade and the sky is falling every day on SDG's. Either the sky is going to fall, or it isn't. Same chatter on this site for decades without any real difference in this local market.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that heard he was getting half the "market rate" and thought "oh boy."

okay

 

[TheSingularity]

Good luck with that ****

lol no

Taking a risk for max dollars

no point in speculating, you don't know what is going to happen. Neither do I. Only time will tell.

This is my job, mind you, I'm well aware what I'm doing. Reading this site for over a decade and the sky is falling every day on SDG's. Either the sky is going to fall, or it isn't. Same chatter on this site for decades without any real difference in this local market.



okay

Sent from my Pixel 3 using SDN mobile