Drop the MCAT from Medical School Admissions 2020-2021 Cycle?

[SDN]

References:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/04/10/sat-act-2021-coronavirus/

The MCAT: A History and Current Overview - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Based on COVID-19, should students advocate to have the MCAT removed from medical school admissions for the 2020-2021 admissions cycle?

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[Goro]

I'm not ok with it, given that the MCAT is an excellent predictor of risk in med school and boards

If the applicant pool dries up because everybody who has taken an MCAT will have already applied, then it should be considered

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

I'm not OK with it either. MCAT is the great equalizer; it allows students from less prestigious schools to show they've really got what it takes to play in the big leagues. And it weeds out the people who had their grades inflated and can't hack it.

 

[medicalchimp]

Why would they have any basis to drop the MCAT? COVID-19 does not affect a student’s current and especially prior ability to study for it. MCAT is exceptionally important.

 

[kfcchikin]

As someone with a lower/meh GPA who spent 6 months of studying a LOT to get AAMC FLs to consistent 523+s, I'd rather just wait the cycle or apply late than see all my hard work not included.

I don't think GPA alone is very fair to compare. However, for those with perfect GPAs, of course they'd want the opposite and understandably so.

At this point (and I know it's not gonna happen, but in a lovely world), even an online MCAT like they do with GREs and now LSATs would be more fair than none at all. However they'd need to include all those webcam eye tracker/testing space measures and you'd probably have to hold your pee for the 7 hours.

Not to mention, it seems unlikely that ALL exams are going to be cancelled. They already announced adding more dates. June ones? Yeah it's a toss-up but July-September seem ok

 

[Isoval]

I totally disagree with this.

Many schools have, in recent memory, dropped or have considered dropping the SAT/ACT from their admissions criteria since long before COVID19 reared its head. In my opinion, the reason for this is because the SAT and ACT really doesn’t test anything. Some might say it tests “intelligence” or “college preparedness”, by my experiences tell me that a 1600 performs equally as well in college as a 2200 (old scale) and that there are 2300s who flamed out and 1500s who rose to wonderful heights.

The MCAT is heavily content-based while also testing for reading comprehension and data analysis abilities. In every way, it can be considered a predictor of medical school success. I hear regularly about 49Xs failing out or repeating years but very rarely hear about this happening to 510s.

Tl;dr: SAT/ACT are useless and the MCAT is not.

 

[squids82]

I’d hope it wouldn’t be completely removed! I worked hard for my score and wouldn’t want it to be eliminated because my peers and I planned differently!

 

[deleted962722]

I’d hope it wouldn’t be completely removed! I worked hard for my score and wouldn’t want it to be eliminated because my peers and I planned differently!

I wouldn't say planned differently because COVID is something no one could have planned for. But I agree, I would never want my hard-earned score to not be looked at. But I really doubt that will happen. If there is a score, I'm pretty positive they'll want to see it.

And this is kind of a side note, but the applicants who I think might be the worst off due to this are actually ones who have a low MCAT score and are planning to retake but their retakes have been cancelled. Because they do have scores that will likely be seen, and without the retake they'll have to choose between applying late or having their application potentially be placed aside.

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

I'd be out of an MCAT Instructor/Tutor job, it's a no from me dawg

 

[MyOdyssey]

Even if medical schools decide not to REQUIRE a MCAT score, they will still see scores from those applicants who have already taken it.

Those with no score at all will still be at a major disadvantage compared to those who already took it and got a good to great score.

AMCAS really should allow an online MCAT. The technology is available to make it work.

 

[wysdoc]

References:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/04/10/sat-act-2021-coronavirus/

The MCAT: A History and Current Overview - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Based on COVID-19, should students advocate to have the MCAT removed from medical school admissions for the 2020-2021 admissions cycle?

I think this will be the year that re-applicants have their best shot! They have a score and they can rewrite their essays and be ready to roll!

 

[wysdoc]

It is quite possible that schools will consider applicants without MCAT prior to interview but may not decide until MCAT is submitted and/or acceptance will be conditional until MCAT.

Yes, right now that is the word from TMDSAS and Texas schools - start on your application and some schools will read it now, others will hold off until you are "complete" with an MCAT score. No TX school currently plans to invite anyone for an interview without a score.

 

[meronebib]

Even if medical schools decide not to REQUIRE a MCAT score, they will still see scores from those applicants who have already taken it.

Those with no score at all will still be at a major disadvantage compared to those who already took it and got a good to great score.

AMCAS really should allow an online MCAT. The technology is available to make it work.

I don’t think an online MCAT is possible.

 

[War of Arts]

Even if medical schools decide not to REQUIRE a MCAT score, they will still see scores from those applicants who have already taken it.

Those with no score at all will still be at a major disadvantage compared to those who already took it and got a good to great score.

AMCAS really should allow an online MCAT. The technology is available to make it work.

No, taking the MCAT at home is so different than taking the MCAT in a pressured testing center, I would have scored points higher if i could take it at home

 

[9blade]

No, taking the MCAT at home is so different than taking the MCAT in a pressured testing center, I would have scored points higher if i could take it at home

I would be the opposite. I'm too comfortable at home and make stupid mistakes. I like the pressure to keep me more mentally focused. That's just me. Anyway, back to the topic, I don't think they will waive it, nor do I want them to waive it. I didn't go to some elite big name undergrad and so they might think my GPA is a product of going to my state school...so I want that MCAT to count.

 

[kfcchikin]

No, taking the MCAT at home is so different than taking the MCAT in a pressured testing center, I would have scored points higher if i could take it at home

Sure, but same goes for the people taking the LSAT at home at now half the length due to their corona accommodations (and of course, it's an option for things like GRE and AP exams too, though those are less "serious"). Seems even more major programs like law schools aren't caring about the few point edge here and there during an unprecedented global outbreak, esp when it can cut their $$$ from applicants.

Nevertheless I doubt any MCAT will be online considering how long & complicated it is and I don't think exam dates are going to be cancelled for July and on (and maybe not late June). At most they'll have to add more dates and do more distancing accommodations like they started doing before the cancellations

 

[War of Arts]

Sure, but same goes for the people taking the LSAT at home at now half the length due to their corona accommodations (and of course, it's an option for things like GRE and AP exams too, though those are less "serious"). Seems even more major programs like law schools aren't caring about the few point edge here and there during an unprecedented global outbreak, esp when it can cut their $$$ from applicants.

Nevertheless I doubt any MCAT will be online considering how long & complicated it is and I don't think exam dates are going to be cancelled for July and on (and maybe not late June). At most they'll have to add more dates and do more distancing accommodations like they started doing before the cancellations

I know nothing about law school admission process, but this online mcat proposal is unfair for those who have taken the mcat prior to the pandemic

 

[openstage]

This is one of those "done to death" topics. Not gonna happen for many, many reasons that have already been stated. I understand the anxiety over this upcoming cycle, but recycling this discussion on SDN won't make it happen.

 

[MyOdyssey]

This is one of those "done to death" topics. Not gonna happen for many, many reasons that have already been stated. I understand the anxiety over this upcoming cycle, but recycling this discussion on SDN won't make it happen.

What might make it happen is if the prediction of 18 months of “rolling shutdowns” once the economy is opened comes true and they end up cancelling all or almost all the 2020 test dates.

 

[kfcchikin]

I know nothing about law school admission process, but this online mcat proposal is unfair for those who have taken the mcat prior to the pandemic

Well, this whole situation is unfair. It's arguably more unfair if even more months and months of exams are cancelled and people are left w/ nothing to show for all their preparation vs letting some people have the luxury of taking it in their pajamas. Regardless, I don't see this as possibly happening w AAMC

 

[Mathejm]

the only criteria that matter imo

References:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/04/10/sat-act-2021-coronavirus/

The MCAT: A History and Current Overview - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Based on COVID-19, should students advocate to have the MCAT removed from medical school admissions for the 2020-2021 admissions cycle?

References:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/04/10/sat-act-2021-coronavirus/

The MCAT: A History and Current Overview - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Based on COVID-19, should students advocate to have the MCAT removed from medical school admissions for the 2020-2021 admissions cycle?

 

[Xyzcannon18]

Sure, but same goes for the people taking the LSAT at home at now half the length due to their corona accommodations (and of course, it's an option for things like GRE and AP exams too, though those are less "serious"). Seems even more major programs like law schools aren't caring about the few point edge here and there during an unprecedented global outbreak, esp when it can cut their $$$ from applicants.

Nevertheless I doubt any MCAT will be online considering how long & complicated it is and I don't think exam dates are going to be cancelled for July and on (and maybe not late June). At most they'll have to add more dates and do more distancing accommodations like they started doing before the cancellations

It's also worth noting some law schools will offer admittance without the LSAT, but take the GRE in place. Columbia is the most notable off the dome. It's important to keep in mind that this decision is because they see statistics that the GRE and LSAT scores have correlation tho.

 

[Talldoctor96]

Well, this whole situation is unfair. It's arguably more unfair if even more months and months of exams are cancelled and people are left w/ nothing to show for all their preparation vs letting some people have the luxury of taking it in their pajamas. Regardless, I don't see this as possibly happening w AAMC

Unfortunately as you move through the process you will realize nothing about this process is fair to applicants. There will always be some that had an advantage.

 

[Talldoctor96]

One

Its not designed to be fair to applicants but designed to be fair to medical schools to fulfill their mission of educating doctors for the next level of their training. Applicants are merely the raw material in this production line. The only fairness here is your choice to apply or not.

Again, agree 100 percent.

 

[NY_Med]

It is quite possible that schools will consider applicants without MCAT prior to interview but may not decide until MCAT is submitted and/or acceptance will be conditional until MCAT.

So do you think something like this would be negative for an applicant who... well in my case took an mcat last summer, got a 501, and planned in retaking this June (am scoring 515's)?But Since they do have an mcat score (just not a good one) they would weigh that heavily and toss out hard R's before I get a chance to take my new one?

 

[KnightDoc]

So do you think something like this would be negative for an applicant who... well in my case took an mcat last summer, got a 501, and planned in retaking this June (am scoring 515's)?But Since they do have an mcat score (just not a good one) they would weigh that heavily and toss out hard R's before I get a chance to take my new one?

With all due respect to the revered adcom, and with the caveat that I am just a future applicant like you, and might not have any idea what I am talking about, yeah, this situation sucks for someone in your situation. A random applicant can get away with applying to schools that will accept a score later, based on how they are doing on the FLs, but schools will see your 501 and very well might screen you out before they ever see a later score. If it were me, I'd assume that the cycle is going to run later this year because of the situation, and not apply until my 515 was available for the schools to see. JMHO.

 

[openstage]

KnightDoc brings up a very interesting angle. Are re-applicants with a low score last year in a precarious position? Should they absolutely wait to have the new scores in before applying, even if those scores don't arrive until August?

 

[Talldoctor96]

KnightDoc brings up a very interesting angle. Are re-applicants with a low score last year in a precarious position? Should they absolutely wait to have the new scores in before applying, even if those scores don't arrive until August?

In amcas, you can put that you are taking another MCAT and you put the date. Schools will put you in an MCAT hold.

 

[Goro]

In amcas, you can put that you are taking another MCAT and you put the date. Schools will put you in an MCAT hold.

That hold might very well end up being an entire cycle long.

 

[openstage]

Would you agree that applying while being on a hold for a future MCAT date, would put you in a distinct disadvantage to someone who has everything in and ready to review by Adcom's?

 

[Goro]

Goro would you acccept an online MCAT if they made one? Would you view it the same as an in-person test?

It's not about what I'd accept, but AMCAS or AACOMAS

 

[KnightDoc]

Would you agree that applying while being on a hold for a future MCAT date, would put you in a distinct disadvantage to someone who has everything in and ready to review by Adcom's?

I'm not an adcom, but, as a fellow applicant, I think it stands to reason that it will not put you at a distinct disadvantage at a school that specifically encourages you to apply without the score due to the crisis. In fact, the CA schools have indicated that they will send secondaries without scores, but will not make admission decisions without them.

This is very different from a situation where you already have a low score and expect to be put on hold pending a later score because you check a box on the primary. This person, I think, would be at a disadvantage compared to someone with no score at all, or to someone with a good score.

The idea here is to be treated as though you do have a score, with a score to follow due to the crisis, as opposed to not being considered until you have a score. After all, what's the practical difference between being put on hold until you have a score and not applying until you have a score? Doesn't hold mean they aren't taking any action, which presumably includes even reviewing the app? What actually happens will be determined by each school, but the early indications are encouraging.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Having to take a MCAT late will disadvantage you to an extent. Some schools start inviting applicants to interview right away and others give out offers fairly early.

It’s also difficult to create a school list and prewriting secondaries without a MCAT score.

I haven’t seen any schools offer to interview applicants who lack a MCAT score. No MCAT score means no offer of acceptance.

They should just create an online version of the exam already...

 

[KnightDoc]

Let's say both those accept it, would you view two applicants with the same score diffrerently if one was online and one was in-person? I understand that there is AMCAS and AACOMAS, but even some schools are saying they'll accept without MCAT (and you obv disagree with that). So you must have a personal opinion on the matter?

So far, absolutely no school has indicated that they would be willing to waive the MCAT requirement. What they are saying is that they will consider applications without them, with scores to follow before decisions are made. This is only due to the delay in the availability of scores caused by the cancelled test dates, so that they can begin their cycles on time without forcing applicants to miss the cycle.

 

[MyOdyssey]

So far, absolutely no school has indicated that they would be willing to waive the MCAT requirement. What they are saying is that they will consider applications without them, with scores to follow before decisions are made. This is only due to the delay in the availability of scores caused by the cancelled test dates, so that they can begin their cycles on time without forcing applicants to miss the cycle.

I understand but by the time MCAT scores are accepted, offers would have been made to others and possibly accepted already.

 

[KnightDoc]

Some DO schools said they'll waive it and CA schools said they will potentially waive it!

I admit I haven't been following DO schools, but the CA schools specifically said "Assuming that MCAT testing resumes prior to October, we will require applicants to have taken the MCAT before we make admissions decisions for the Class of 2025." Since AAMC will be posting additional test dates this Friday, I'll bet anything that testing WILL resume prior to October, and they are not waiving anything.

 

[squids82]

I admit I haven't been following DO schools, but the CA schools specifically said "Assuming that MCAT testing resumes prior to October, we will require applicants to have taken the MCAT before we make admissions decisions for the Class of 2025." Since AAMC will be posting additional test dates this Friday, I'll bet anything that testing WILL resume prior to October, and they are not waiving anything.

Exactly and it would only be waived for exceptional applicants who most reasonable people would agree would score very well anyways and not borderline to slightly above average candidates that would indicate a higher risk.

 

[KnightDoc]

I understand but by the time MCAT scores are accepted, offers would have been made to others and possibly accepted already.

Maybe, but given the number of people impacted by this, I think it's pretty safe to assume that lots of applicants are going to be submitting high scores late, and the schools are going to know this (by looking at the rest of their apps). These applicants should not be prejudiced just because they won't be in the first wave of acceptances on 10/15 (assuming that doesn't get pushed back because of this). Schools will have already seen their apps (and maybe even interviewed some of them) and will be holding As for them pending receipt of their scores.

I honestly think most of us will be fine. The people who are most likely to be screwed are those who have a preexisting low score that they cannot increase now because of cancelled test dates. They are going to have to apply later if they expect to have their later scores considered.

 

[KnightDoc]

Exactly and it would only be waived for exceptional applicants who most reasonable people would agree would score very well anyways and not borderline to slightly above average candidates that would indicate a higher risk.

So far, no MDs schools have indicated they would waive for anyone. That could, of course, change if testing does not resume, or if it resumes and then is cancelled again before the end of the testing year in September.

 

[Goro]

Let's say both those accept it, would you view two applicants with the same score diffrerently if one was online and one was in-person? I understand that there is AMCAS and AACOMAS, but even some schools are saying they'll accept without MCAT (and you obv disagree with that). So you must have a personal opinion on the matter?

I wouldn't care. I'll taking for granted that AMCAS will have the exam cheat-proofed.

 

[PA_dud3]

Because of the events occurring during this app season, do you guys think next season (2021-2022) will have unusually stiff competition from people who decided not to apply this year?

 

[squids82]

Because of the events occurring during this app season, do you guys think next season (2021-2022) will have unusually stiff competition from people who decided not to apply this year?

Probably not, most applicants will apply anyways and aren’t as neurotic as SDN or Reddit

 

[Goro]

Because of the events occurring during this app season, do you guys think next season (2021-2022) will have unusually stiff competition from people who decided not to apply this year?

Yes, and not merely from COVID directly. We're heading into a Depression (not recession) and as such, med school apps always go up in times of economic trouble.

The people who aren't applying this year don't automatically have something magic about them, app wise.

 

[KnightDoc]

Because of the events occurring during this app season, do you guys think next season (2021-2022) will have unusually stiff competition from people who decided not to apply this year?

I don't.

I thought it definitely would if the schools didn't make accommodations, as most of the adcoms suggested might be the case a few weeks ago. But, between AAMC adding dates and schools encouraging people to apply even if they don't have scores available at the beginning of the cycle, and yet other schools saying they would either delay the beginning of the cycle or extend the end (or both), I honestly think most people who were otherwise ready, willing and able to apply this cycle are not going to take an additional gap year due to MCAT score delay.

On the other hand, people who needed EC hours this spring and summer to be competitive will probably be pushed into the next cycle, but I'm not sure that anyone in that position (of course, there will be exceptions to every rule) will, in the aggregate, present unusually stiff competition in a subsequent cycle.

 

[KnightDoc]

Yes, and not merely from COVID directly. We're heading into a Depression (not recession) and as such, med school apps always go up in times of economic trouble.

The people who aren't applying this year don't automatically have something magic about them, app wise.

Interesting thought, but do you really think people who haven't been preparing for this for years are going to magically be able to pull together an application in one year that presents unusually stiff competition for the rest of us as they seek to ride out the coming "Depression"? Or will it just be a bunch of people taking a shot because they have nothing better to do?

I get and respect history, but back in the good old days (10-20 years ago -- past economic downturns), all you guys really cared about was GPA and MCAT, right? If so, a smart kid looking for something to do who was able to take the right classes and perform well on standardized tests could easily transition into a med school application in a year, correct? Nowadays, with all of the other stuff you guys look for, this volunteering, that volunteering, service to others, leadership, research, publications, general brilliance, demonstrated commitment to activities over long periods of time, etc., how does someone discovering this path at the last minute effectively compete with 50,000 people who have been preparing for 3, 4, 5, or more years???

 

[readmypostsMD]

Yes, and not merely from COVID directly. We're heading into a Depression (not recession) and as such, med school apps always go up in times of economic trouble.

The people who aren't applying this year don't automatically have something magic about them, app wise.

Really? How come?

 

[deleted859689]

Really? How come?

job security in medicine

 

[readmypostsMD]

job security in medicine

/lack of jobs out of college

 

[TheIllusionist]

First they came for the SAT with test optional. We did nothing.

Then they came for the STEP1 P/F. We did nothing.

Now they come for the MCAT. What will it be?

 

[Goro]

job security in medicine

This