Drug Possession

[Libra]

Hi Everyone,
I have a question that's really been really bothering me lately. I am planning to apply to med school in the summer of 2002, but I was on disciplinary probation with my undergraduate school freshman year because I got caught with weed on campus my second semester. I went to court and got it all dropped/expunged, but since it was on campus it is still shown in the school's records.

I will graduate with over a 3.9, have done lots of research, study abroad, and have some recommendations comming from high places. I haven't taken the MCAT yet, but I think I will do fine.

Basically, without the black mark on my record I think I am in perfect shape to get in to the top ten school I want to go to. Anyone have an idea about how much the pot thing is gonna clobber me? Any input would be much appreciated.

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[docuw]

Even with your criminal record being dropped, there is documented fact that you have been in possession. I would be surprised if any school overlooked that. I would say you are in trouble friend.

 

[algernon]

Well...you COULD write a 100-page treatise on the medical use of marijuana and submit it as part of oyur secondary apps.

JK...honesty is the best policy, dude. BTW - congrats on the three nine.

 

[Annette]

What's done is done. All you can do is apply and see what happens.

 

[Libra]

Docuw:
I am more than certain that it will not be overlooked in the admissions process, and I am more than prepared to address it directly. But do you think that a single isolated instance of having a joint would be grounds for denying an otherwise extremely competetive candidate entry? I hope the ADCOM's will be at least willing to give me an interview and ask about it in person, but who knows.

 

[Col_4:14]

Libra, this is a tough situation. Adcoms today are very familiar with the problem of self-medicating physicians. This topic could be on their minds when deciding on your app.
However, I am sure they realize that many college students have tried dope at some point or another without any long term addictions. Then again, they may not want to risk accepting a student with a potential drug problem.
You may want to find a highly respected physician who can vouch for you in a recommendation letter.

 

[Jamier2]

Maybe your dealer could write you a letter stating that your use has ended. He should make sure to include the positive aspects of using marijuana such as:

1. Buying dope taught you to handle your money so you could afford the next joint.
2. Include the fact that your eye-hand coordination went up exponentially with the number of joints you rolled. Especially if you want to go into surgery.
3. Let your interviewers know that drug use has improved your problem-solving skills, through hiding, avoiding detection (however unsuccessfully), and odor masking.

(You might want to take a sample with you to any interviews so you can display your well honed skills for the adcom)

I think these points should improve your standing as an applicant.

In all seriousness, I don't know how it will affect you, but like Col_4:14 said, they know that most people try it at some point.

 

[Libra]

I unfortunately don't have or know any dealers. The girl I was out with that night gave it to me cause she didn't want to drive home with it in her car. Do you think you could get your dealer to write me one? I would be willing to pay. Maybe I could even send him some new business what do you think?

 

[Libra]

Just joking of course Jamie. As worried about this as I have been, it?s actually nice to have a little comic relief.
(But still mention it to him, ok?)

 

[Winged Scapula]

Just curious - when you say it is still "shown in the school's records" do you mean that it is noted on your academic transript? If so, does it specify WHAT the disciplinary action was?

 

[lmthoms1]

Originally posted by algernon:
•Well...you COULD write a 100-page treatise on the medical use of marijuana and submit it as part of oyur secondary apps.

JK...honesty is the best policy, dude. BTW - congrats on the three nine.•

good idea!!!!!!

 

[Libra]

Kimberli,
What I meant is that somewhere in my file it says that I was supposed to be on probation with the school for one year due to being in possession of a small amount of marijuana on school grounds. This is not printed on my transcript, but rather on record with Student Judicial Affairs. I was released from probation after a few months based on the recommendation of the school counselor, and that was all that happened. So the situation is that if they specifically look for it, it's there to be found. But it certainly won't be presented unless specifically requested by admissions committee.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Well, I say then its pretty buried since it doesn't appear on your transcript.

Obviously I am not condoning hiding it if you are directly asked about it. Honestly IS the best policy. However, I don't think you need to bring it up either since it doesn't appear that AMCAS/AACOMAS will know anything about it if it doesn't appear on your transcript.

I just applied for my Pennsylvania state license and it does ask if you've ever been convicted of a misdeamenor or felony (other than traffic offenses). It sounds as if your record has been expunged so I would assume you could answer this question "no" and still be honest about it as well. For those of you with more legal expertise than I, is this true? If a record is expunged does that mean you can honestly answer as if it never occured?

 

[lmthoms1]

Not to be a burden of bad news but put yourself in their position....
you are on the committee looking at 1100 applications for the 80 open slots and you run across your file....yes gpa is good ....yes good MCAT ...oh but wait a minute what is this? ...a drug possession charge? on school campus? ........I don't know about this let me sit this aside while I review more applications Hey here's 80 other applicants that fit the same profile only THEY don't have a drug charge >>>>>in all honesty which one would YOU pick????
Sad but true.. the littlest mark could exclude you( hey wouldn't you do the same thing if you had to narrow thousands down to 80)this is just my opinion not saying I'm 100% accurate.......but hey I'd apply anyway.
And look at it like this I'm just an undergrad what do I know

 

[wooo]

even though it has been removed from your criminal record, I think I remember the AMCAS question "Has disciplinary action ever been taken .........." something like that.

I would think really hard before checking that box. Honesty is the best policy, but if you can justify checking NO, you will be better off. What I mean is to ask the councilor that helped you get off probation a few questions like, "that wasn't considered disciplinary action was it?....I was just on probation for a few months." Ask this question to as many people in an authority position as needed until one of them says NO. Then check no in the box and carry on with your life.

If it comes up, you can say that you asked the councilor, Dean of Admissions ect..., and they said that it was not disciplinary action.

If you can't get a bite on the No thing, let your conscience be your guide.

 

[cavaor]

Have you considered contact some ADCOMS directly? I am sure they can probably give you a better picture on your specific situation.

 

[Jamier2]

Originally posted by Libra:
•(But still mention it to him, ok?)•

I'll be in touch as soon as I can figure out how to use a beeper.

 

[algernon]

Just a thought...

I applied to schools last year and, thankfully, got into several. Although my MCAT's were pretty good, my GPA was a little low (not pathetic, just not in the 3.5-4.0 range). Anyway, most of the advice I received basically told me to address that issue head-on. In other words, for the semesters when my GPA went down a lot, I was encouraged to explain why. (As it happened, my dad died while I was in college. This became, therfore, part of my explanation.)

In my opinion, the AdComs gave me a shot because I tried to explain my lower-than- average GPA and because I had a legitimate reason. Whether there was an issue of sympathy, I can't say. But at least they had a clue as to what happened.

For you, there will come a time at which point you will have to mention this "blemish" on your record. You will, no doubt, be asked at some point if you were ever subjected to disciplinary action, put on academic probation, etc. Whatever you do...DON'T LIE!!!!! Say "yes", and explain it in every chance you get (personal statements, etc.). Moreover, be sure to explain how your life has changed and how the experience will affect your success and attitude as a physician.

Keep in mind...if you were to get an interview, you can bet your life that issue would be the first thing on their minds. Shouldn't you be prepared for any question they might throw at you? Even if your only explanations are "youthful foolishness" or poor judgement, dont give ANYONE a reason to think that you are trying to pretend it never happened.

 

[MadrasEye]

Thats a sad story.
Why should you not get into med-school for ONE DAMN JOINT.?

Oh in response to the legality of checking the "NO" box.... It is perfecly legal to check the no box. If a misdemeanour has been cleared from your record..it legally never happened.

Chill out...they wont dig that up.
K

 

[Cassidy61]

DENY, DENY, DENY! Live by those mighty words. (i.e. it depends what your definition of "is" is). If you can bury it, then by all means dig a giant hole and toss it into it. Look how far W got with the drunk driving charge before that came up in the election. Believe you me, no Adcom is going to look that deeply for it. They have all tried drugs, and would understand, but why make them have to understand? If it is not on your academic record (ie. what is sent to AMCAS), then DO NOT put down that you have been in possession. If I had been forthright in my COLLEGE application about being suspended for a minor prank that involved breaking and entering, I do believe that I would have never gotten into the college I went to. It was tough, but I had to check that "no" box. If I hadn't gone to that college, then I wouldn't have been as strong a candidate for med school. Now I am in med school and no one really cares about a silly little blip called breaking and entering. Don't give anyone a reason to go looking. Just my thoughts! If you don't get in, you could always start selling weed! It is very profitable!

 

[Annette]

In the immortal (and irritating)words of Shaggy "It wasn't me."

 

[MikeS 78]

4 points
1) I wonder what they do if you have been convicted of a misdemeanor...I mean obviously a felony procludes you getting a license, but what if you get a misdemeamor...lets say you forget to go to court for a traffic ticket (don't assume anything, this has never happened to me, I live in NY and dont drive).....does this mean no MD....if it doesnt proclude you then why do they ask
2) If it is not on your transcript then I would advice applying to schools that don't ask specifically about criminal past on the application
3) I am wondering if drug possession charges prevents one from getting a medical license....this doesnt apply to you
4) the point about the self medicating physician is really on the mark....this is a pretty major issues these days and a drug charge that stuck with you at your school will pretty much take you out of consideration at most schools

 

[rdennisjr]

I think a point some people are missing here is pretty important - it's not if you (in general, not you specificially) were convicted of a misdemeanor or felony, it's not if you should try to skirt the issue or not, etc etc etc. What would bother me if I was on an ADCOM, is that you intentionally made a bad decision. Getting caught with drugs is not a mistake folks. I'm not even going to argue if the drug laws are good or not - the fact is they are. So, if you choose to use, hold, or otherwise interact with them, you have made an intentional decision to break the law. For someone who is going to spend the rest of their lives having to make moral and legal decisions affecting every patient they contact, this is a huge potential problem - and that is what the ADCOM's will be thinking (IMHO), not if it was just one joint, or what ever the excuse is.

So in this specific case, does that mean you shouldn't apply? Of course not - go ahead an apply - but don't lie, don't cover up, and if your dreams never come true, that is a painful price to pay, but for a decision that was made entirely by you.

 

[Mikado]

You are applying for a place in med school, not a position in the CIA. Don't worry this will NEVER surface.

In any case the AMA is not opposed to the legalization of Maryjane and doctors generally don't make an issue out of it.

I don't do drugs personally but I do wish that the majority of my fellow citizens who absolutely do feel the need to take drugs would switch from alcohol to weed. I don't think I have ever heard of anti-social acts being committed by angry stoned mobs.

 

[Jamier2]

Originally posted by Mikado:
•I don't do drugs personally but I do wish that the majority of my fellow citizens who absolutely do feel the need to take drugs would switch from alcohol to weed. I don't think I have ever heard of anti-social acts being committed by angry stoned mobs.•

I'm with you on this. Also, it's rare to hear about people wrecking and killing other people's family members from smoking a joint, whereas you are always hearing about some drunk driver killing somebody. Maybe they outlawed the wrong drug?

 

[Brennan]

Usually the med schools just recieve your transcripts and not all your records.....second i would wait for them to bring it up, if you bring it up and they dont know - you have just incriminated yourself...... So it looks like your out of the fire.....but there is one thing to consider...if you are applying for federal financial aid (stafford, etc) there is a new policy that states the government will not disperse federal grants or loans to individuals that have been in trouble for drug violations of any kind....you really need to look into that if you are going to apply for federal financial aid..b/c if you are and cannot get it the school will want to know why and what happened will surface...
----also you could check into getting a chemical analysis test done on a strand of hair....anything you have done will show up (the length of time considered is determined by the length of your hair)..and if nothing shows up your good...
good luck

 

[Cassidy61]

I believe that the question on the FAFSA is phrased as to whether you have ever been CONVICTED of a drug related crime. I am pretty sure of this.

 

[Brennan]

I think Cassidy61 is right...thanks for the correction.....