# dubliners how much???

#### chiefy

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I know others have posted all sorts of figures, but here are expected expenses for Trinity (Dublin). Please correct me if I am wrong.

Tuition 24000*1.20=28800yearly
Housing 1000*1.20*12=14400 yearly
Living 800*1.20=11520 yearly

Total 54,720 yearly*5 years = 273,600

I think I factored in utilities and other miscellaneuous items. I am trying to use conservative numbers. Does it make any sense? Thanks

#### john182

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chiefy said:
I know others have posted all sorts of figures, but here are expected expenses for Trinity (Dublin). Please correct me if I am wrong.

Tuition 24000*1.20=28800yearly
Housing 1000*1.20*12=14400 yearly
Living 800*1.20=11520 yearly

Total 54,720 yearly*5 years = 273,600

I think I factored in utilities and other miscellaneuous items. I am trying to use conservative numbers. Does it make any sense? Thanks
Depends on whether you rent sharing or alone. A grand will rent you a decent 1 bed in the city, around IFSC (financial centre, lots of new apartments and near all bus, light rail,etc., ). Rents do change and over 6 years expect them to in Dublin. There was a time in even 5 years ago you could rent a 2 bed in the city for under IR£700 (about 900). Now a two bed will rent for 1500 in the same area, 5-6 years later. A solution *may* be to find some other students in your first year each raise some capital and buy a place between you all. It would work out much cheaper and avoid rental increases.

Living won't cost you 800. That's plenty for everything. Again, was a time when a pint cost £2 and that was maybe 7 years ago, so maybe factor in inflation which has been very very high over recent years but is slowing down.

You could live well on those numbers you;ve listed. 6 years (or 5?) is a long time and rents and cost of living does tend to go up.

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#### chiefy

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John 182,

Thanks for your reply. Here's the deal, in response to your question, I think I should do the 5 year program. I have solid grades from a good school with all my prereqs complete except Organic, (and of course the MCATs), which I plan to take in the Fall. Therefore, I should do the five year program. Right? Also, what kind of MCATs are they looking for? Better yet, what did the people you apply with get on the MCATS? Thanks again.

#### john182

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chiefy said:
John 182,

Thanks for your reply. Here's the deal, in response to your question, I think I should do the 5 year program. I have solid grades from a good school with all my prereqs complete except Organic, (and of course the MCATs), which I plan to take in the Fall. Therefore, I should do the five year program. Right? Also, what kind of MCATs are they looking for? Better yet, what did the people you apply with get on the MCATS? Thanks again.
I think the 5 year or 6 year program is decided by the college itself. I have known people to bitch and say they won't go for the 6 year and then get offered the 5 year but it's all down to how much they want you.

Of course, do the five year if you can. Remember 1 extra year now is worth \$200k at the end when you are practicing for 30 years or whatever it will be then, so as quick and short to get out as possible. You won't get any benefit from pre-med (1st year of 6) if you can skip it, do.

MCATs were from a long time ago and standards change - maybe back in 1996!!! (Yeah I am old!).

#### leorl

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1000 for rent?!?!?!?!?! Damn, youse livin' the high life! But...800 euro for the whole year? hmm. Depends what you do, I guess. I'm a sports person, but I spend like 40 euro a week on food. That doesn't include going out, cinema, etc. travel, bills...

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#### chiefy

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I hope I don't spend a grand a month on rent, but like I said these are conservative numbers. I don't want any surprises!

#### john182

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chiefy said:
I hope I don't spend a grand a month on rent, but like I said these are conservative numbers. I don't want any surprises!
Yeah mate a grand a month will get you a nice 1 bed in a good area. You couldn't pay much more for a 1 bed, you could pay less for a studio for example. Have a look at www.daft.ie. You'll get a good idea of prices there.

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#### chiefy

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Thanks for that website, it helped. It looks like I can share a place with someone for a little over a grand! You know, I had no idea what the prices are, being from New York you simply assume rent is expensive in a major city.
Also, what's the deal with many people assessing costs for medical school in Ireland at the 250-400K range. If my numbers are conservative, what are people calculating???

#### leorl

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Generally, I'd estimate about 50k per year. So that makes it 250k for the 5 years. This is an overestimation because I don't spend 50k per year, but who knows what's going to happen with the US dollar - whether the inequality between the USD and euro will continue (my first year, they were pretty much exactly equal). I'd say at the moment I spend about 40k per year, the next couple years I want to travel more so maybe like 45k per year.

#### john182

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chiefy said:
Thanks for that website, it helped. It looks like I can share a place with someone for a little over a grand! You know, I had no idea what the prices are, being from New York you simply assume rent is expensive in a major city.
Also, what's the deal with many people assessing costs for medical school in Ireland at the 250-400K range. If my numbers are conservative, what are people calculating???
Ah christ they are nothing like NYC. NYC is like London, rents are calculated on a weekly basis! Any big financial centre has high rents.

Dublin property prices are high though. You'd pay 400,000 for a 2 bed in the city and a lot more in a posh area - so comparitively remember in dollar terms for a one bed for 1000 is \$1300 or so. That would, I think, barely rent you a apt in NYC (around 1800-2000/month to start, so?). Property to buy over there is cheaper though. Anyway that's besides the point.

I think people calculate those big numbers are because some people are talking of RCSI. I can't speak for Trinity or UCD but I know RCSI non-Irish fees go up every year. Currently the RCSI website lists the fees at 34250 for for 1st year. The fees go up maybe 1-2 grand a year so you could be looking at 40-45 large for final year, which is pushing 60,000 dollarios. No small beans at all. Add in at east 10-15k/year for accomodation and living and you are easily saying 50k/year euros to start and possibly 60-65k/year euros by final. That means likely 300k = lets just make it an even \$400,000 seeing as the \$ is going to drop again.

You're numbers aren't conservative they are close to spot on. You won't spend 800 month living by any means. At most 200/month on bills like heating, cable, mobile phone, etc., . Rental markets have stabilised a lot these days so the main meat of the investment is the college fees.

#### sepaul

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I estimated the following tuition and living increases over 5 years. The tuition at UCD was 32k and living was 18k, totaling 50k. Factor in 5% increase in tuition and the total package is about 280k. That is not including inflation on living expenses. This is for 5 years.

At a private american school the cost would cost more like 180k-190k. That is about 35% cheaper to stay in the US.

IS IT WORTH IT?
-se

#### leorl

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Tuition at UCD is 32k? Sheesh?! Trinity is well...about 25k now with the USD weakening. When I first started and the euro was equal to the dollar, tuition was about 18,000 euro. Now up to I think 21,500 or something. At the time when I was looking, coming here was cheaper than places I'd go to in the US (private med schools). Who knows how much more the USD will weaken.

The place I'm renting now is 500 euro a month, and that's on the more expensive side (sharing a 2 bedroom place in the middle of city center). You can find cheaper.

#### dontbsme

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sepaul said:
I estimated the following tuition and living increases over 5 years. The tuition at UCD was 32k and living was 18k, totaling 50k. Factor in 5% increase in tuition and the total package is about 280k. That is not including inflation on living expenses. This is for 5 years.

At a private american school the cost would cost more like 180k-190k. That is about 35% cheaper to stay in the US.

IS IT WORTH IT?
-se
Well, as John182 has said in another thread........

"Don't worry about the investment mate every American in my class there matched in 1st choices from ENT, gen surg, OBGYN you name it. It's one of the best investments to make for a medical degree given the history, training and international recongition....<snip>...... It's an investment in yourself and when you are raking in the entire 6 years fees in a single year as an attending you'll feel better."

#### sepaul

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dontbsme said:
Well, as John182 has said in another thread........

"Don't worry about the investment mate every American in my class there matched in 1st choices from ENT, gen surg, OBGYN you name it. It's one of the best investments to make for a medical degree given the history, training and international recongition....<snip>...... It's an investment in yourself and when you are raking in the entire 6 years fees in a single year as an attending you'll feel better."
I am holding an acceptance letter to UCD in my hand currently. I love the idea of living abroad in Ireland and getting a great education there. I read this booklet on the internet the other day and freaked out a bit.

The main points I was disturbed about are (in some decending order):
1. Poor clinical education: Ireland has 32 full time faculty in the entire country vs. 2500 in the UK! I guess they hire part-time clinicians who offer shoddy instruction because they are overworked and underpaid (this is corroborated by info I have read from students on SDN).
2. "Bullying" of students by administration and faculty
3. The lack of state funding for schools (ie. new class rooms, IT, computers etc.)
4. The heavy focus on surgery and medicine with a lack of focus on primary and preventative care (Much needed here in the US and in Europe).
5. The dependence of the budget of all Irish medical schools on non-EU student money 82%.

It seems by the generally negative tone of the report that Irish medical schools are on the brink of failing as an institution rather that ins proported status os one that trains high quality physicians . It seems to have entered a precarious situation in which an already failing system has become overly dependent on foreign students \$.

Why should I go to UCD? I don't want to regret getting an education that does not meet up to US (or Canadian or British) standards and be 280k poorer. That would be a huge blow to me.

Chime in yall!
-se

1

#### 13538

Hmm...I knew that Medical Council report would open a can of worms!

#### sepaul

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Trinners said:
Hmm...I knew that Medical Council report would open a can of worms!
So Trinners, do you want to weigh in on this one? What are your opinions of the report? Does it accurately depict Irish Medical schools? Would you make the same decision if you had read this report before signing up for the program?

-se

#### leorl

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HAHHA! That report not surprisingly, sort of sounds remarkably Irish. They do address particular concerns which do need to be considered, but can be very self-deprecating as well.
1) Poor clinical education: I'm not sure how this manifests within our learning. We have our clinicals and no one is left standing in an abyss because there's no faculty...you're given tutorials by interns, SHO's, reg's and consultants (mainly in OPD or during surgery). I don't know what they qualify as "full-time clinician" either, since the number of full-timers in just James's alone would amount to way over 32 people.

2) Bullying - This also depends what they mean by bullying. Does it mean making changes to curriculum without student input? Does it mean profs actually being mean to students in a classroom or private situation? We had a prof who always told us we'd kill our patients. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, it hammers the point home that you need to know your stuff. I can only think of one consultant who says off-kilter things to students, and US students probably get a lot more pimping than we do. I've not really encountered "bullying" but the thing with that is, you can only be bullied if you let yourself be bullied.

3) There supposedly is a lack of funding, due to government cutbacks (ties into a lot of social and economic history that I don't really understand), but again...I don't really see it manifesting. All I see within college, and not just within the health sciences department, are plans and the starting of renovations / improvements to all facilities. In the hospital where we're lectured, they've put in 2 computer labs within the last 1.5 years. It'd be nice if they wouldn't schedule all-day classes in them, and yeah, we'd like more computers, but the demands are rising so quickly that it'd be very short-sighted to say they're failing to innovate.

4) That's an interesting one. I wonder with respect to what are they comparing it with? To be honest, I thought they were more focused on preventative care than in the US. Both are changing thinking and approach rapidly, but this actually was one of the reasons why I came here. My particular interest is in sports, and I was surprised when I came here the first time, how much focus was in the prevention of injury (because of a more dominant PT field here) rather than on the US "we'll fix it when it's broken" attitude. The same goes with lectures on diabetes, obesity, etc. and there's some health science student involvement in trying to change primary school education to include preventative measures for later diseases (cardiopulmonary, obesity, etc.) . I haven't obviously sat through US teaching, and it could have changed in the last 3 years, but I think they're more on the ball with prevention than in the US. Not sure on primary care, as I have nothing to compare it with.

5) Yeah, they are overly dependent on foreign student income.

6) I wouldn't worry about substandard education. That's not really a concern of any of us here, and each year, most (those who don't stay here) US / North Americans match successfully into good programs. We take our own measures to make sure we meet the requirements to be on an equal footing with US students (i.e. for the USMLE and stuff) and haven't found Irish education to be particularly lacking. In some ways, the different system of Irish and UK education works to our advantage.