1. The SDN iPhone App is back and free through November! Get it today and please post a review on the App Store!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dismiss Notice

due process and termination

Discussion in 'Psychology [Psy.D. / Ph.D.]' started by Phd2016, Sep 6, 2014.

  1. Phd2016

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Psychology
    During my graduate studies, I was terminated from part-time psychometrist positions. These were not practicum placements. It was a combination of lack of training at the sites, personal issues, poor decision making on my part, and bad timing. Either way it happened.

    Since, I've gotten more training, direct supervision, help for my own mental health, and maturity. I have strong referees, and feel more confident in my skills. I have held other clinical jobs for years!! I have really pulled it together and am ready to apply to internship.

    Unfortunately the internship application asks about termination. I worry about how to approach this, now and in the future (registration and jobs..). Does anyone have advice? How much and what exactly do I say?
     
  2. Note: SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. PsychBiker

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    72
    Either note the background of the situation and admit your faults or don't mention the whole thing at all - however the latter is probably unethical.

    How long were you employed there for and how long ago was this?
     
  4. Phd2016

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Psychology
    Thanks for your response. It was after about a month, and it was nearly 4 years and one year ago.
     
  5. MCParent

    Faculty Bronze Donor Classifieds Approved 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,511
    Likes Received:
    1,210
    Status:
    Psychologist
    What's the exact wording of the appi question that asks about this?
     
  6. Phd2016

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Psychology
    Its in the "professional conduct" section, where it states: "Have you ever been put on probation, suspended, terminated, or asked to resign by a graduate or internship training program, practicum site, or employer? If yes, explain."

    The terminations were not about my professional demeanor or conduct, they were about employee fit and qualifications. I just don't know what to do - it seems unfair that these things would follow me my whole professional life when I've take important steps to re-mediate it. I also understand why a site would want to know.

    In addition to what "should do" what would you do? realistically.....
     
  7. AcronymAllergy

    AcronymAllergy Neuropsychologist
    Moderator Psychologist Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    7,080
    Likes Received:
    1,358
    Status:
    Psychologist
    Based on the bolded portion, I'd say it's something you need to disclose. They provide you with space to "explain," though, so that's where you can take the opportunity to present the facts about the situation and then concisely describe all the things you've done to remediate anything on your end.

    As for what I personally would do, yes, I would disclose it.
     
  8. OneNeuroDoctor

    OneNeuroDoctor Clinical Neuropsychologist
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    104
    Status:
    Psychologist
    I think you need to ask the Director of Clinical Training the status of your practicum placements that they are going to report. It seems that this was a poor match for you and you were reassigned to a different placement rather than terminated and required to do a remediation plan.

    If the DCT is not reporting this then you do not need to report it. You need to be consistent with what their report indicates.

    Does it reflect on your course credits that you repeated the practicum? If this was a job outside of your practicum placements it would not be required to be reported nor would it count towards practicum hours.

    When I applied through APPIC several years back, my application had to be cleared by our DCT before being allowed to apply so probably they will let you know if you need this in your application before they approve your application.
     
    #7 OneNeuroDoctor, Sep 7, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2014
  9. MCParent

    Faculty Bronze Donor Classifieds Approved 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,511
    Likes Received:
    1,210
    Status:
    Psychologist
    That's not what OP said by my read. OP said it was "a combination of lack of training at the sites, personal issues, poor decision making on my part, and bad timing" and called it "terminated." I think the suggestion to not disclose is patently unethical.
     
  10. Phd2016

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Psychology

    OND - these were completely outside of my practicum placements, and my DCT and supervisor don't know anything about it. As such, there isn't anything on record. I will be meeting with my DCT to review/approve my application, so I can verify that things are consistent. Thank you.

    MCparent - I know what you mean re: unethical. That's a piece I am conflicted about. These are no longer a representation of my skills, and were outside the program (not even program accredited sites). So I am conflicted.

    Thank you everyone for your nonjudgmental advice.
     
  11. MCParent

    Faculty Bronze Donor Classifieds Approved 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,511
    Likes Received:
    1,210
    Status:
    Psychologist
    Is there much more to say than, "I took a position as a psychometrist that it turns out I was not prepared for in terms of skill set and preparation. This position was terminated, an action that in retrospect I agree with as I do not believe my abilities at that time early in my training were commensurate with the requirements and duties of the position. Since then I have blah blah blah."
     
    SublimeNature likes this.
  12. OneNeuroDoctor

    OneNeuroDoctor Clinical Neuropsychologist
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    104
    Status:
    Psychologist
    If this was outside of the program practicum requirements my guess is to not report it. You were still in training for the job or on probationary status and it was only part-time. You were not let go due to ethical reasons and most internship, employment, and licensing boards are concerned if you were let go due to ethical reasons.

    Since you were at that job only briefly, are you putting it on your CV?
     
  13. AcronymAllergy

    AcronymAllergy Neuropsychologist
    Moderator Psychologist Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    7,080
    Likes Received:
    1,358
    Status:
    Psychologist
    Given that the APPIC item specifically states "employment," and does not imply that this must be degree-centric employment, I'd say it needs to be disclosed. That's just my read, though. The way I see it written, it could apply to being fired from a part-time job someone had when they were 16 and still in high school.
     
  14. AcronymAllergy

    AcronymAllergy Neuropsychologist
    Moderator Psychologist Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    7,080
    Likes Received:
    1,358
    Status:
    Psychologist
    I don't think it's our place to try and guess at what internship sites, employers, and licensing boards are concerned with. Rather, it's our job to completely answer the question. Ironically, not doing so could indeed be seen as an ethical violation.
     
    MCParent likes this.
  15. erg923

    erg923 Regional Clinical Officer, Cenpatico National
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2007
    Messages:
    9,557
    Likes Received:
    3,149
    Status:
    Psychologist
    From an ethical and moral perspective, obviously you should tell the truth, right? The question clearly says "employer" so I'm not sure why neurodoc advised what he did.

    That said, I agree the question should be worded better so that's it's clear how far back they want one to go with this question. I mean, I didn't disclose being fired from a Dairy Queen when I was 16 for giving my girlfriend free blizzards.
     
  16. MCParent

    Faculty Bronze Donor Classifieds Approved 5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,511
    Likes Received:
    1,210
    Status:
    Psychologist
    I would think OP, by the description of the events provided, could just describe it as a case of getting a position that OP was not prepared for at that time, training-wise and otherwise, as I said above. That's not really a red flag or a concern for an internship selection committee. Actually I think it's pretty responsible of the OP to not raise a fuss and try to hold onto a position OP recognizes that OP was not competent to carry out optimally at that time.
     
    AcronymAllergy likes this.
  17. Psycycle

    Psycycle Psychologist, ABPP
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    503
    Likes Received:
    200
    Status:
    Psychologist
    I think it would be hilarious if someone disclosed that they were fired from dairy queen for giving friends free blizzards when they were sixteen.
    I don't know what the most ethical answer is here. The whole internship thing is profoundly unethical, the imbalance, the unfairness. If you do disclose it, I'd not say anything about mental health issues, etc. I'd make it sound as impersonal as possible - did not have the training the site desired, something like that.
     
    siamesekitten likes this.
  18. AcronymAllergy

    AcronymAllergy Neuropsychologist
    Moderator Psychologist Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    7,080
    Likes Received:
    1,358
    Status:
    Psychologist
    I don't know that I'd say it's unethical. Certainly a profound potential to be unfair, though. I guess it depends on what perspective you're taking and how you're defining unethical.

    But my take is still that if the employment happened when the person was in grad school, and particularly if the employment was psychology-related, the termination should be reported.
     
  19. oathkeeper

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2014
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    19
    I'd check with my DCT; also I believe APPIC has a problem consultation option, they might be able to help you.
     
  20. Psycycle

    Psycycle Psychologist, ABPP
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    503
    Likes Received:
    200
    Status:
    Psychologist
    I think unethical for reasons that would start a debate that wouldn't benefit this thread and has been hashed to death.... It's a tough question. I think the OP should consult with people more informed that I am.
     
  21. OneNeuroDoctor

    OneNeuroDoctor Clinical Neuropsychologist
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2013
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    104
    Status:
    Psychologist
    Whoops wrong thread!
     
  22. psyman

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2011
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    64
    Status:
    Psychologist
    OP, were you truly terminated from the position? I mean, they said, "You're fired because X, Y and Z." If so, then you should disclose it.

    The position was recent enough (in my opinion) and was in the field. If it were your teenage Dairy Queen job, then I would say don't disclose it. Though it does bring up the questionable scope of what is reportable in response to that question.

    Could you get away with not reporting it? Likely, but it's not worth it. Be honest about what happened. The truth is it will be a bad mark on your application, but it's not a death sentence. Remember, the person reading the application has made mistakes, too.
     
    AcronymAllergy likes this.
  23. erg923

    erg923 Regional Clinical Officer, Cenpatico National
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2007
    Messages:
    9,557
    Likes Received:
    3,149
    Status:
    Psychologist
    I also flipped a golf cart when I was a caddy (long story). I didn't report that either...
     
  24. Sendtrees

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    52
    The question very clearly covers the situation you describe. There's a box somewhere you click saying that all of the information you submit is truthful, etc. It would be very dangerous (internally as well as externally) for you to begin this important phase of your career with a lie. Which is what it would be not to disclose and then to click that box. I hear you--it really sucks in this hypercompetitive market to have to admit to anything that isn't stellar, but the alternative is just too risky.
     
  25. erg923

    erg923 Regional Clinical Officer, Cenpatico National
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2007
    Messages:
    9,557
    Likes Received:
    3,149
    Status:
    Psychologist
    My guess would be something along the lines of restraint of trade (probably not proper terminology) because of the match systerm vs being able recieve mutliple offers. Instead its one match (offer) or nothing at all.
     

Share This Page