Duke FM Story Has Me Concerned

[mosche]

I know that several of you will think that I am just being silly; however, after reading the Duke information in the FM forum and General Residency forum, I have really begun to stress over the programs to which I've applied. I mean, I know that there are warning signs to look for/questions to ask, but what if the warning signs are hidden really well? I refer to the Duke Family Medicine program -- if Duke (a so-called "top program" that attracts "top students") can cover up such attrocities, imagine what lesser known programs can cover up.

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[Poety]

I know that several of you will think that I am just being silly; however, after reading the Duke information in the FM forum and General Residency forum, I have really begun to stress over the programs to which I've applied. I mean, I know that there are warning signs to look for/questions to ask, but what if the warning signs are hidden really well? I refer to the Duke Family Medicine program -- if Duke (a so-called "top program" that attracts "top students") can cover up such attrocities, imagine what lesser known programs can cover up.

So Mosche, you still interviewing there?

 

[mosche]

Yes, though I have to admit that they are falling. There are other programs that give me the ibby-gibbies. Pittsburgh may be too research oriented for my aptitude level, and MGH just seems surreal. From what I've seen, thus far, Yale, Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, Wash. U., and Arkansas will be my prime candidates.

Along these same lines, Vanderbilt and the Tennessee programs have moved off the chart totally. I have done some investigating, and the Tenn. Care program is really hurting Psychiatrists in that state. Vanderbilt has lost many of their top names due to the state program, and several of the psychiatrists in that state have left for greener<$>pastures! I like the IDEA of a state run health insurance; however, I've yet to see it work over the long term.

 

[Poety]

Yes, though I have to admit that they are falling. There are other programs that give me the ibby-gibbies. Pittsburgh may be too research oriented for my aptitude level, and MGH just seems surreal. From what I've seen, thus far, Yale, Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, Wash. U., and Arkansas will be my prime candidates.

Along these same lines, Vanderbilt and the Tennessee programs have moved off the chart totally. I have done some investigating, and the Tenn. Care program is really hurting Psychiatrists in that state. Vanderbilt has lost many of their top names due to the state program, and several of the psychiatrists in that state have left for greener<$>pastures! I like the IDEA of a state run health insurance; however, I've yet to see it work over the long term.

Well, you have some pretty nice contenders anyway. I'm cancelling Tennessee and probably U of Mississippi too. I've got too many and its getting to be a bit much - Do you think I'll be ok going on 12-13?

 

[mosche]

Well, you have some pretty nice contenders anyway. I'm cancelling Tennessee and probably U of Mississippi too. I've got too many and its getting to be a bit much - Do you think I'll be ok going on 12-13?

As friendly and as out-going as you are on SDN, I'm sure that you would be fine with three or four! If you take the baby to the interviews, you will be fine with one!!! Well, maybe two if you have to change her diaper!

 

[Poety]

As friendly and as out-going as you are on SDN, I'm sure that you would be fine with three or four! If you take the baby to the interviews, you will be fine with one!!! Well, maybe two if you have to change her diaper!

aww thanks Mosche
Too bad we aren't even interviewing at the same places, and I won't be meeting Sazi either , perhaps in our careers though we will cross paths! You'll know me, trust me, you'll know exactly who I am

 

[mosche]

Not too loud! Sazi has, evidentally, been on call, and boy is he in a mood!

 

[Poety]

Not too loud! Sazi has, evidentally, been on call, and boy is he in a mood!

yer cracking me up, you have nothing to post so you're just going around responding to mine, stop copying me ok?

This can become our official thread - you started it anyway, and why didn't you respond to my MOVIE thread, I thoguht that was a good idea, I mean most psych programs have movie night anyway - so I want to do Movie thread. Add a movie, any movie, I'll bet I've seen it!

 

[mosche]

How about Silence of the Lambs? I'm watching you Poety! I should probably use your real name -- that would sound more creepy!

 

[Anasazi23]

Not too loud! Sazi has, evidentally, been on call, and boy is he in a mood!

I'm watching you...

very closely.

 

[mosche]

I'm watching you...

very closely.

Talk about creepy!

 

[Poety]

Talk about creepy!

HEYYYY I couldn't click on the link, it gave me an error. Well, anyway, you guys are always watching me anywho - and Mosche, you know you follow me around the forum Thats ok, I follow you around too

So, dudes, the family med forum is freaking me out, I swear I'm seriously considering not even ranking another program but my home school program since it seems like so many places can be MALIGNANT and hide it - then bam, all heck breaks loose and you have real drama going on.

At least theres no residents here bashing any programs - but it really makes you think, what am I getting into where I'm going, what will this be like, what if this situation SUCKS, what if it isn't positive - kinda scary

 

[banannie]

hey, kids, simmer down now.

the situation with Duke Famly Med has absolutely nothing to do with their psychiatry program! you'll be missing out on a great residency if you let some postings by anonymous people freak you out about a completely different program in a completely different specialty. (at Duke or anywhere!) don't let the mass hysteria envelope you too!

i also don't think you can say that the trouble at the duke family med program was completely hidden and no one had any idea there was anything wrong. after all, the program hasn't filled in several years. in fact, i bet the people at duke FM who are the most shocked are the ones who scrambled in to all those vacant spots, probably thinking they scored a good residency just because of the Duke name.

the sudden appearance all over the internet of these duke FM postings is not coincidence. it's clear that there's a concerted effort to punish the administration for their (real or perceived) wrongdoings. it's a shame, since it seems, from these posters' stories, that the actions of just a few administrators are damaging the reputation of the entire FM program. as a med student, i've worked with a lot of the FM docs here, and they are superb clinicians and excellent teachers.

 

[mosche]

hey, kids, simmer down now.

the situation with Duke Famly Med has absolutely nothing to do with their psychiatry program! you'll be missing out on a great residency if you let some postings by anonymous people freak you out about a completely different program in a completely different specialty. (at Duke or anywhere!) don't let the mass hysteria envelope you too!

i also don't think you can say that the trouble at the duke family med program was completely hidden and no one had any idea there was anything wrong. after all, the program hasn't filled in several years. in fact, i bet the people at duke FM who are the most shocked are the ones who scrambled in to all those vacant spots, probably thinking they scored a good residency just because of the Duke name.

the sudden appearance all over the internet of these duke FM postings is not coincidence. it's clear that there's a concerted effort to punish the administration for their (real or perceived) wrongdoings. it's a shame, since it seems, from these posters' stories, that the actions of just a few administrators are damaging the reputation of the entire FM program. as a med student, i've worked with a lot of the FM docs here, and they are superb clinicians and excellent teachers.

I didn't intend to make Duke Psychiatry "guilty by association" -- I think that that is one of the problems with these/other forums, you don't get a real feel for the intent of the post. My issue is that we, the interviewee, only get a limited exposure to the programs where we interview. The natural concern is that the program puts on their best performance to convince us that we should rank them highly (I also realize that the interviewees do the same thing). Should we match at the program, we may be astonished to discover that the portrait painted during interview season was a fake. BTW, this concern extends to ALL programs, and not just to Duke -- Duke FM just happens to be the topic of discussion in the general residency forums

 

[Poety]

Don't act like yer not starting trouble Mosche cuz we all know you are JUST KIDDING!

Bananie: I don't think anyone here is taking anything so far out of context as to let it truly affect our lives and decisions- at lesat from conversations I've had in private with a lot of the frequenters of the psych forum, everyone here is intelligent enough to make their own decisions, and usually just uses this forum for guidance in some areas or general discussion - I know for a fact Mosche wasn't trying to start a bash Duke FM thread. He's just throwing out whats on his mind - which is what we all like to do here. I'm sure Duke FM has its perfect fits, as does any other residency, maybe they're jsut in a bad place and need to attract the right people for their position - and maybe they'll get some revamping from the consequences of these boards. Either way, I think it goes to show that any program can have its rep hurt by postings by disgruntled residents. And as Mosche said, it is scary that programs can hide a lot from us in a one day period. I think any program can do this EASILY - so you never really know unless its your home school.

So Mosche, I'm off to another interview - I'll check in and see where you are though - don't miss me too much k?

 

[Poety]

Talk about creepy!

don't call Sazi creepy

 

[banannie]

thanks for your replies!

i did not mean to imply that you all aren't intelligent enough to make your own decisions. but you've got to admit, the first 3 posts in this this thread, to paraphrase: "the problems with Duke family med have me worried," "are you still going to interview there?", "yes but they are falling on my list", make it kind of easy to draw the inference that a general state of apprehension toward duke could influence someone's perception about their psychiatry residency. i've seen it happen before: for example, lots of people think that duke's IM program is malignant, which is not at all the case. this rumor is based in large part on the fact that the surgery program has a reputation for being malignant. impressions about one residency program can and do often influence impressions about another.

also, years from now, when the search function is *finally* enabled, i'd hate for someone to search for key words "duke" and "psychiatry" and come upon this post, without knowing the context of what's going on in the other forums.

finally, i meant the real point of my message to be that, even in such an extreme example, the posts about duke FM do demonstrate that the warning signs were there. so no need to be unnecessarily worried that a residency program will completely pull the wool over your eyes and trick you into selling your soul and your firstborn son. it seems that in most cases, if you listen to your advisors, keep your eyes open, stay skeptical, and keep reading SDN, you are unlikely to have such a horrible surprise.

btw, even though i am at duke, i have no privileged info about this. everything i know about this fiasco is from these forums.

 

[Poety]

thanks for your replies!

i did not mean to imply that you all aren't intelligent enough to make your own decisions. but you've got to admit, the first 3 posts in this this thread, to paraphrase: "the problems with Duke family med have me worried," "are you still going to interview there?", "yes but they are falling on my list", make it kind of easy to draw the inference that a general state of apprehension toward duke could influence someone's perception about their psychiatry residency. i've seen it happen before: for example, lots of people think that duke's IM program is malignant, which is not at all the case. this rumor is based in large part on the fact that the surgery program has a reputation for being malignant. impressions about one residency program can and do often influence impressions about another.

also, years from now, when the search function is *finally* enabled, i'd hate for someone to search for key words "duke" and "psychiatry" and come upon this post, without knowing the context of what's going on in the other forums.

finally, i meant the real point of my message to be that, even in such an extreme example, the posts about duke FM do demonstrate that the warning signs were there. so no need to be unnecessarily worried that a residency program will completely pull the wool over your eyes and trick you into selling your soul and your firstborn son. it seems that in most cases, if you listen to your advisors, keep your eyes open, stay skeptical, and keep reading SDN, you are unlikely to have such a horrible surprise.

btw, even though i am at duke, i have no privileged info about this. everything i know about this fiasco is from these forums.

Thanks so much Bananie, I didn't mean to sound "oh we're intelligent" I just re-read my post, argghh sometimes these forums don't convey what we're really trying to say! What I meant to say was more like: Thank God everyone here at least (in the psych forum) really does seem to be sensible enough to not let opinions here sway them one way or the other, but instead it appears they utilize the forums for additional info.

I can totally see where you would get that from the first sentences in our threads!!! And unfortunately, thats partly my fault because I was just being silly already knowing that Mosche was going to interview there - I was just bumping the thread to make him respond again

And as for that darn search option - I'm so EASILY identifiable that I too only try to post to reflect my real personality since you NEVER KNOW whos reading what and I would hate for my sentiments to be misconstrued so I have to be careful. Sorry if I came off the wrong way! I'm sure Duke is a great program, and I think what I meant was that hopefully they will find some residents that appreciate what they have to offer (whatever that may be, I'm going into psych so I know nothing about the program)

Are you interviewing for psych as well? I haven't seen you here before (although you may have been here all along -oops!)

 

[banannie]

nope not interviewing. i'm just a 3rd year med student, leaning toward going into psych, trying to get a preview of what my life will be like 12 months from now. also, this craziness with the family med program has me checking the forums a little more than usual. it's like watching a train wreck, and i just can't look away! so of course, when i saw this thread, i just had to say something.

i know what you mean about not being able to convey things through these forums. it happens to me, like, every time i post!

 

[Poety]

it's like watching a train wreck, and i just can't look away! !

no one can look away! mosche, i know you're here i smell you

 

[mosche]

I know that several of you will think that I am just being silly; however, after reading the Duke information in the FM forum and General Residency forum, I have really begun to stress over the programs to which I've applied. I mean, I know that there are warning signs to look for/questions to ask, but what if the warning signs are hidden really well? I refer to the Duke Family Medicine program -- if Duke (a so-called "top program" that attracts "top students") can cover up such attrocities, imagine what lesser known programs can cover up.[/QUOTE]

For future generations: My original post was prompted by the current (2005) FM situation at Duke; however, if you read my entire post, please be aware that Duke was only the stimulus to my concern.

 

[Boofus4L]

I know that several of you will think that I am just being silly; however, after reading the Duke information in the FM forum and General Residency forum, I have really begun to stress over the programs to which I've applied. I mean, I know that there are warning signs to look for/questions to ask, but what if the warning signs are hidden really well? I refer to the Duke Family Medicine program -- if Duke (a so-called "top program" that attracts "top students") can cover up such attrocities, imagine what lesser known programs can cover up.[/QUOTE]

For future generations: My original post was prompted by the current (2005) FM situation at Duke; however, if you read my entire post, please be aware that Duke was only the stimulus to my concern.

wow, i am going to have to go look at the FM board! i am currently a first-year resident in psych at Duke, and i must admit that i know absolutely nothing about whatever scandal has been brewing in the FM department.

mosche, i totally hear you. the whole residency application process is SO scary - you basically have to decide to sign the next four years away to a program that you actually know very little about. all you have to bank on is the information you get from the program website and from the interview day itself - can't really get more biased than that. it's terrifying that a program could skillfully hide its weaknesses and suck you in - and then you get there and it's absolutely awful

the real question is, how can you keep this from happening to you?! i don't think any prevention strategy is foolproof, but i do think that the best resource you've got as an applicant is the residents at the program you're applying to. are they the walking dead, or are they smiling? how enthusiastic are they about the program? when i was visiting places, i was skeptical of residents. i figured that they were also in on the game, and likely wouldn't be telling me the truth. now that i actually am a resident, i realize that it would be really hard to hide being miserable. and if i were miserable, why would i want to hide it from the applicants? on the contrary, i would probably want to screw over my program by discouraging as many applicants as possible from coming. so... i think your best bet would be to talk to as many residents as possible from each program you're interested in. i realize that this is completely unsolicited advice - take it for what it's worth

on a side note, i am more than happy with my choice of residency program. in fact, if i were to do it all over again i would choose duke again. so if anyone has any specific questions about the duke program, feel free to send them my way.

-boofus