Duke Match List Question (Prelim)

[Lests55]

Could someone explain the "transitional" and "preliminary medicine" categories? I know some specialties that don't have integrated intern years require a person to match separately and are usually in one of these categories (or prelim surgery). But when I count them up I get 105 people and they have 101 per class give or take md/phd's graduating whenever they do. So it seems that one person is not listed twice (e.g. an anesthesiology match is also a transitional year match). So do these people not have a position after their intern year?

The rest of the list is really impressive, so it seems like I am just not catching something. Or are these people "homeless" after PGY-1?

Thanks!

DUKE MATCH LIST 2007

Specialty Program
Anesthesiology University of Florida Health Science Center, Gainesville, FL
Anesthesiology Jackson Memorial Hospital, Miami, FL
Anesthesiology Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, MA
Anesthesiology Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Anesthesiology Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Emergency Medicine SUNY Stony Brook University Hospital, Stony Brook, NY
Emergency Medicine University of Cincinnati Medical Center, Cincinnati, OH
Emergency Medicine Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Emergency Medicine University of Cincinnati Medical Center, Cincinnati, OH
Family Medicine University of North Carolina Hospital, Chapel Hill, NC
Family Medicine Virginia Commonwealth Univ.-Fairfax Family Medicine; Fairfax, VA
General Surgery Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
General Surgery Henry Ford Hospital, Detroit, MI
General Surgery Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
General Surgery Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA
Internal Medicine University of Chicago Hospitals, Chicago, IL
Internal Medicine Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Internal Medicine Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Internal Medicine Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore, MD
Internal Medicine Barnes and Jewish Hospital, Washington University, St. Louis, MO
Internal Medicine University of Washington Affiliated Hospitals, Seattle, WA
Internal Medicine Mount Sinai Hospital, New York, NY
Internal Medicine Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Internal Medicine Stanford University Hospitals, Palo Alto, CA
Internal Medicine Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore, MD
Internal Medicine Vanderbilt Medical Center, Nashville, TN
Internal Medicine Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore, MD
Internal Medicine University of Washington Affiliated Hospitals, Seattle, WA
Internal Medicine Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA
Internal Medicine Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA
Internal Medicine University of Utah Health Sciences Center, Salt Lake City, UT
Internal Medicine Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Internal Medicine Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA
Internal Medicine Vanderbilt Medical Center, Nashville, TN
Internal Medicine Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA
Medicine/Pediatrics Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Medicine/Pediatrics Brigham and Women's Hospital/Boston Children's Hospital, Boston, MA
Medicine/Pediatrics Baystate Medical Center, Springfield, MA
Medicine/Pediatrics Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Neurology University of California San Francisco, San Francisco, CA
Neurosurgery Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, MA
Neurosurgery University of Michigan Medical Center, Ann Arbor, MI
Obstetrics and Gynecology Albert Einstein College of Medicine, New Hyde Park, NY
Obstetrics and Gynecology McGaw Medical Center of Northwestern University, Chicago, IL
Ophthalmology Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Ophthalmology Vanderbilt Medical Center, Nashville, TN
Ophthalmology Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Ophthalmology Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Ophthalmology Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore, MD
Ophthalmology University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, Pittsburgh, PA
Ophthalmology University of California Davis Medical Center, Sacramento, CA
Orthopaedic Surgery Thomas Jefferson University Program, Philadelphia, PA
Orthopaedic Surgery Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Orthopaedic Surgery Hospital for Special Surgery, Weill Medical College of Cornell University; New York, NY
Orthopaedic Surgery Harvard Combined Program, Boston, MA
Orthopaedic Surgery Columbia University Medical Center, New York, NY
Otolaryngology McGaw Medical Center of Northwestern University, Chicago, IL
Pathology Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Pathology Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, MA
Pediatrics Children's Hospital of Pennsylvania; Philadelphia, PA
Pediatrics University of Michigan Medical Center, Ann Arbor, MI
Pediatrics University of Colorado Denver Health Sciences Center, Denver, CO
Pediatrics Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Pediatrics University of Colorado Denver Health Sciences Center, Denver, CO
Pediatrics Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore, MD
Pediatrics Naval Medical Center, Portsmouth, VA
Pediatrics Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Pediatrics University of Washington Affiliated Hospitals, Seattle, WA
Pediatrics Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Pediatrics Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore, MD
Pediatrics Vanderbilt Medical Center, Nashville, TN
Plastic and Reconstructive Surg Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore, MD
Prelim Medicine Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Prelim Medicine University of Florida Health Science Center, Gainesville, FL
Prelim Medicine University of Tennessee Health Science Center, Nashville, TN
Prelim Medicine Mount Sinai Hospital, New York, NY
Prelim Medicine Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Prelim Medicine University of North Carolina Hospital, Chapel Hill, NC
Prelim Medicine University of Rochester Medical Center, Rochester, NY
Prelim Medicine Emory University School of Medicine, Atlanta, GA
Prelim Medicine University of Florida Health Science Center, Gainesville, FL
Prelim Medicine Carolinas Medical Center, Charlotte, NC
Prelim Medicine University of Washington Affiliated Hospitals, Seattle, WA
Prelim Medicine University of Maryland Mercy Medical Center, Baltimore, MD
Psychiatry Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA
Psychiatry Columbia University Medical Center, New York, NY
Psychiatry University of Virginia Health System, Charlottesville, VA
Radiation Oncology New York University Medical Center, New York, NY
Radiation Oncology MD Anderson Cancer Center, Houston Texas
Radiation Oncology Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore, MD
Radiology Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Radiology Emory University School of Medicine, Atlanta, GA
Radiology McGaw Medical Center of Northwestern University, Chicago, IL
Radiology Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC
Radiology University of Michigan Medical Center, Ann Arbor, MI
Transitional Med. Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, New York, NY
Transitional Med. McGaw Medical Center of Northwestern University, Chicago, IL
Transitional Med. University of Hawaii, Honolulu, HI
Transitional Med. Hawaii Residency Programs, University of Hawaii John A. Burns School of Medicine, Honolulu, HI
Transitional Med. University of Michigan Medical Center, Ann Arbor, MI
Transitional Med. Arrowhead Regional Medical Center, Colton, CA
Urology Cleveland Clinic Foundation, Cleveland, OH
Urology Einstein/Beth Israel Medical Center; New York, New York
Urology Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC

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[diosa428]

I don't really understand your question?

 

[Lests55]

Do the students listed as "transitional" and "preliminary medicine" have a PGY-2 position? If so, (say anesthesiology) why weren't they listed with the other anesth. matches? From the numbers it looks like all of the graduates are accounted for....so do ~15 people in the class not have a PGY-2 position?

 

[diosa428]

They do have positions, they're just listed twice. So, if you were doing a transitional year and then opthamology, you'd be listed for both of them.

 

[diosa428]

So, if you look, there are 17 that are listed under optho, anesthesiology and radiology, and there are 18 listed under a transitional or prelim year. So either one person doesn't have a PG-2 match, or the 18th person is in a different specialty. I know that sometimes EM requires an intern year, so it's possible that that is the reason for the difference, or there's another specialty that requires an intern year that I can't think of.

I realize that if this is the case, there are less than 100 matches, and Duke has a class of ~100. This probably has something to do with the combined degrees - MD/MBA takes an additional year, MD/PhD takes longer, etc. Also, taking an additional "third year" is becoming increasingly popular. However, according to my advisor, usually only one or two, if any, go unmatched in any given year, and it's usually because they decide at the last minute not to match b/c they decide they want to do a specialty that they didn't apply into, or were really picky about the area of the country that they wanted to go to and only listed a few programs, or for other personal reasons.

 

[Lests55]

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I understand what you are saying, but wouldn't the numbers in MBA/PhD/extra 3rd year even out over time? You said that staying longer is becoming increasingly popular, but by that much in one year?

BTW, it looks like we could just do this via PM, it's kind of lonely in here, just you and me.

 

[Lests55]

But I agree, there has to be some "catch" because that many folks at a school like Duke just doesn't make sense.

 

[Dookter]

I'll join in. If you're wondering if like 18 people in the match had to settle for a one year gig with no guarantees for the other years---my answer is no way. I think those of us at Duke would have definitely heard about that taking place.

 

[Lests55]

I'll join in. If you're wondering if like 18 people in the match had to settle for a one year gig with no guarantees for the other years---my answer is no way. I think those of us at Duke would have definitely heard about that taking place.

Yeah I agree. But I'm still curious as to the explanation, is Diosa spot on?

 

[Auscultate]

I would like to point out that there are actually 20 people in specialties typically requiring a prelim or TY (5 anesthesiology + 7 Ophtho + 3 RAD-ONC + 5 Radiology).
So, with 18 prelim + TY matches, it means there are 2 people without a prelim/TY position or in an integrated program not requiring a separate prelim (i've forgotten which specialty out of those four it is, but I do recall there are a few of such programs (might be in rad-onc).

 

[diosa428]

I would like to point out that there are actually 20 people in specialties typically requiring a prelim or TY (5 anesthesiology + 7 Ophtho + 3 RAD-ONC + 5 Radiology).
So, with 18 prelim + TY matches, it means there are 2 people without a prelim/TY position or in an integrated program not requiring a separate prelim (i've forgotten which specialty out of those four it is, but I do recall there are a few of such programs (might be in rad-onc).

I'm going to guess that they're in integrated programs, only b/c I find it hard to believe that someone could match into one of those specialties (I mean, they're all pretty competitive) and not find a prelim position somewhere. But I don't know. If I ever go to dean's lunch again, I'll ask my dean what's up with the list.

 

[Lests55]

Just really strange that our explanation is that 20 people are tied up in research or dual degrees. And it just so happens that it wasn't balanced between different years...

 

[Lests55]

OK, after looking at Duke's website, they have statistics for the 2003 match. It says 87 students participated.

http://dukemed.duke.edu/Curriculum/index.cfm?method=AfterDukeResidency

Did Duke recently increase its class size by about 15? The 2007 match "appears" to have ~90 people as well, so did it happen in 2005 or 2006?

 

[Lests55]

Nevermind, ~98 people matched in 2004.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=1477100&postcount=267

 

[TommyGunn04]

Just really strange that our explanation is that 20 people are tied up in research or dual degrees. And it just so happens that it wasn't balanced between different years...

This is exactly correct though. Because some students purse dual-degree programs that vary from 1yr (MPH), to 2yrs (MPP, MBA), to upwards of 4-5yrs (PhD), the number of graduating students varies widely, from about 80 to 120 depending on the year, despite the fact that Duke typically fills about 100 first-year spots each year. This reflects how flexible the Duke administration truly is with regards to letting their students pursue other interests, and the fact that the numbers of students who do any given dual-degree isn't necessarily fixed. Another handful of students choose to extend their research year for an additional 12 months, and Duke never really knows how long people will take to finish their PhDs (and some drop out). As a result, it's pretty unpredictable how many students will graduate in a given year, which explains why the match numbers vary so much from year to year.

I heard from some reliable sources that there were only 1 or 2 unmatched applicants this year, who likely scrambled for a 1-year gig somewhere. It was truly a phenomenal match year for Duke!

 

[Lests55]

Thanks for responding! Yeah, that match list is truly amazing!