Duke Med - 2 years rolled into 1

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by pathdr2b, Oct 8, 2002.

  1. pathdr2b

    pathdr2b Banned
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    I'm thinking of adding Duke to my list of schools to apply to next year but the idea of completing the basic science requirements in one year seems daunting to say the least. Anybody got any views on this?
     
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  3. DW

    DW Fix me some sandwiches
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    i think its spread over 11 months, but its probably still pretty damn difficult. i think the gist being the type of kids who get offers to Duke med are the type of kids who can handle that?
     
  4. pathdr2b

    pathdr2b Banned
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    I know two guys including an MD/PhD student, that turned Duke down because of the curriculum set up. One just graduated from Harvard and the other just finished his PhD and started 3rd year at Chapel Hill. If THEY had concerns, it may be worth thinking about before investing the money in applying.
     
  5. poloace

    poloace Senior Member

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    this is a weird thread... you just answered your question with your own example. silly...
    p
     
  6. agent

    agent agent, RN

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    ditto. weird.
     
  7. pathdr2b

    pathdr2b Banned
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    I asked for views NOT answers to my own questions. Dam*, can a person ask a question around here without someone getting their "drawz" in a bunch? So no one has EVER asked a curriculum question on SDN?

    PS - I've submitted my app to a PhD program at Duke earlier today:p
     
  8. poloace

    poloace Senior Member

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    dude, i still think its weird
     
  9. pathdr2b

    pathdr2b Banned
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    Dudette, Dudette, Dudette and I thought DW was the only one with transgender concerns!:laugh:
     
  10. poloace

    poloace Senior Member

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    sorry girlie- i think you should have just put your example in your first post- and .... arrgh- i should be doing reading instead of being here.
    p ;)
     
  11. poloace

    poloace Senior Member

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    you do cancer epi??? that's cool... i'm getting my MPH from columbia right now in epi and spent all summer doing quality of life on cancer patients. its kind of tough sometimes... but, very cool. ok- you're not weird anymore-
    p
     
  12. DarkChild

    DarkChild Senior Member

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    just for the record I would like to state that even outside of the internet world - dude is still UNISEX!!!:p
     
  13. serene

    serene New Member

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    Having attended Duke for undergrad, I'm familiar with the med school experience there. The first year is tough, but for those who are very interested in research, it may be worth it. First year students are usually in class from 8 to 5, Monday through Friday, and people often skip lecture to study or sleep (notes, diagrams, etc for most lectures are online). I've heard several students say that they felt less prepared for the USMLE. Students learn more of the material for the first time while studying for the USMLE than they think they would have at other schools b/c there just isn't as much time to cover the material in one year. They still score very well . . .I suppose the thinking is that if you're bright enought to make it at Duke med, you can teach yourself neglected material without too much difficulty. The trade-off is that your entire third year is open for research in an area that interests you. It's really just a matter of whether, in your mind, the rigors of first year are worth the rewards of third year.
     
  14. Zardoz

    Zardoz Junior Member

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    Look, it would be ideal to me to bust my arse in one year of classes if that menat I could get to the clinical material a year earlier. Plus, if you already have a Ph.D. you can get out a year earlier. How'd you like to have a year of your life back from this process?

    (Cashin' in the $.02)
     
  15. Thewonderer

    Thewonderer Senior Member

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    From what my friend there said, only Ph.D. in related field (genetics, biochem, etc.). If you get it in economics, etc., you still need to do the 3rd year.

    The first year can be miserable. My friend experienced the worst time of his life during block II where they covered gross anatomy, microanatomy and physiology from late Oct to mid-december, and had exam on average every single monday.

    I saw Duke's mean USMLE step 1 score when I visited my friend. It was posted outside their curriculum room. It was about 1/2 SD above the mean. good but not excellent.

    If you have doubts, then Duke is probably not suitable for you.
     
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  17. uffda

    uffda Senior Member

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    out of curiousity - since Duke does not require USMLE 1 or 2 - when do most Duke students take Step 1 - after 1st yr, after 2nd year, or after 3rd year ?
    What about Step 2 ?
     
  18. dlc

    dlc Senior Member

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    Okay, I am a first year at Duke and so far this year has NOT been tough, in my opinion. I go to every lecture, every lab...if I didn't I would really procrastinate learning the material. Classes from 8-5 is no big deal...its just like having a full time job. Plus, everything is so integrated that its reinforced throughout the day so when I get home, I have already done a lot of studying. Granted, we only just STARTED block II and I have heard that this IS the toughest block but all of the classes above mine have said that their first year was doable. As for the USMLE, I have heard that our curriculum covers approximately 75% of what every other med school in the country covers, so its not like we are missing a whole lot. I know that when I do start studying for the USMLE, I am probably going to realize everything that I have already forgotten because that is just what med school has been like for me...a lot of information to memorize...but if you are able to infer from what you know that you can find your answer. Make sense? Anyway, as for the third year...well, I am just happy to get all of the preclinical sciences done in one year...third year is open for anything and it gives us a chance to get some research fellowships to reduce our debt (always on my mind)...Duke was always my dream school so all of these things are just extra perks to me!
     
  19. Neuronix

    Neuronix Total nerd
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    If you ask most people why not MD/PhD, they will say "Too much time". Many mudphuds like the idea of going to Duke because that will get them out of MD/PhD a full year earlier and it's still a great school. Where did I read that across the last several years, Duke has had a 100% matriculation rate (that is, all students accepted went there)?

    In any case, I'm applying there and I really hope I get in.
     
  20. pathdr2b

    pathdr2b Banned
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    The "doubts" I have are related to doing that first year at Duke with a family. I emailed a friend completing a PhD (Pharmacology) at Duke to get some feedback of the first year w/family issue and she said that they are reasonably "flexible" for students with outside "issues". I hope that's the case because hands down, I think Duke has the best MD/PhD program in the country. Gonna, give a shot and let the chips fall where they may!!!
    Thanks to everyone who posted/will post responses. You guys are the best!!!:clap:
     
  21. omores

    omores sleep deprived

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    I'm a second year at Duke. One of my friends is an MD/PhD student with a wife and two kids. He and his family were not only able to survive first year, they were also able to expand: His brand new daughter was born during orientation for our second year, and there was much rejoicing.

    There is also a mom in the regular MD program. She needed lots of flexibility, and from what I understand she got it -- she says that Duke was very good about accomodating her needs. If you'd like to get in touch with either of these people, PM me and I'll put you in contact...

    And oh yeah, I'm just remembering that we have two single moms: one MD (two kids) and one MD/PhD (one kid). Don't know their stories as well as the first two I mentioned, but they're out there. There may even be others I'm not aware of yet.
     
  22. TommyGunn04

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    I'm also a first-year student at Duke Med right now, and I have to say that I absolutely LOVE the curriculum, and the amazingly supportive atmosphere. Here's my reasoning: no matter where you go to medical school it's going to be very difficult. And in this day and age it's not possible to know everything anymore. So what Duke tries to do is get you through the "hoops" of the basic science years more quickly, so that you can spend more time in the environments where you REALLY learn: the clinics! And from what I've heard it really pays off. Ask any residency director around the country about Duke students, and you're likely to hear something about how well prepared we are for our internship/residency compared to most other students.

    Regarding some comments about board scores, if you look at the other medical schools with "non-traditional" curricula you'll see the same phenomenon. Students tend to score right around the national average, usually a little above. So does this mean that students coming out of these schools (Harvard, Duke, Cornell, etc.) are less competent? I highly doubt it. Rather, it seems more likely that the boards simply haven't caught up with the curricular advances so many schools like Duke have made over the past decade. And the fact that residency programs love Duke students lends further support to this hypothesis. By the way, this isn't my idea...it's something I heard from a number of people who've spent years designing curricula.

    Anyway, if anyone has any specific questions about Duke, feel free to PM me. :)
     
  23. ckent

    ckent Banned
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    I heard a rumor (from one med student to another med student to me) that Duke had a pretty poor board pass rate (the number I heard was ~75% pass their first time). Any Duke students care to comment?
     
  24. omores

    omores sleep deprived

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    Sure. Not true. They post board performances every year and the two years I've seen have both been 99 or 100% (can't remember which -- sorry).
     
  25. Thewonderer

    Thewonderer Senior Member

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    This is what the official lines from the admissions office are. And the learning on the wards is too romanticized. There are lots of scut work and I don't imagine Duke to be that much different.

    Ask any residency director around the country about Duke students, and you're likely to hear something about how well prepared we are for our internship/residency compared to most other students.

    If you believe in US news and world report's director ranking of schools, then yes. But I don't see if Duke grads are really more highly regarded than UCSF, Columbia, Wash U, UCLA, Yale, etc. grads who have 2 year basic sciences.

    The bottomline is if you want to go to Duke, you have to find the curriculum appealing to "you." Otherwise, you will be unhappy real soon because you will find out that the type of curriculum will not make you learn "faster" or make you a more "prepared" grad in the eyes of the residency directors than grads from other excellent med schools in the country.

    By the way, this isn't my idea...it's something I heard from a number of people who've spent years designing curricula.

    That's why I think whatever they said is the "official party line." ;) (i.e. don't believe it that much). Because if what they said is really true, then 99% of the med schools in the US have "out-of-dated" curriculum.

    Lastly, about the step 1 score, the sheet I saw outside of the curriculum office when I visited my friend @ Duke shows 1 person failing out of, say, around 85-95 students, with average being 1/2 standard deviation above the mean.
     
  26. omores

    omores sleep deprived

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    I beg to differ. I've learned a HUGE amount since beginning clinical rotations. I feel for the first time that I'm learning things "for keeps". Last year details would seemingly exit my brain a few weeks after an exam. This year they stick, since they have a context they lacked before. Last year it was mostly theoretical knowledge. This year it's real. Haven't gotten bogged down in scutwork yet, though there may be more of it on some rotations than others. But most of the doctors I've worked with have been well aware that medical students are here to learn, not to do chores. I would think (hope!) that that's the way it is at most medical schools.
    I agree with you completely. For me, the Duke curriculum is perfect -- it meshes with how my brain works and the way I like to learn things. Other people may do better with a more traditional structure. I think the most important thing is to be aware of how the curriculum works -- what its shortfalls are, and what advantages it offers in return. Then figure out what you want from your education.
     
  27. pathdr2b

    pathdr2b Banned
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    Due in large part to the efforts to Omores (Thanks a bunch!), I've been personally contacted by 4 Duke med students in less than a week responding to my requests for more information. I've also looked into the curriculum ( I like the "block" format), board scores, and graduate program offerings and to sat the least, I am EXTREMELY impressed. Not only were these students helpful in answering my questions but also gave me the "good" and "bad" side of studying medicine anywhere and not just at Duke. If this is any indication as to how both the administration and students really are, then count me in if I get accepted.:D
     
  28. Raptor

    Raptor Found one

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    One Duke med student that is going for MD/JD stated to me that Duke is a good med school to attend, however, he states that the the residency is not all its cracked up to be. This comment is coming from him.
     
  29. All-Star14

    All-Star14 Wants to Rock Wit U

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    It seems quite difficult to complete all the basic sciences in one year, but being able to begin rotations a year earlier (and have one year of research) seem like resonable trade-offs. It makes Duke unique; for that reason, I'll apply there (in two years).
     
  30. TommyGunn04

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    Of course you're right...there's lots of crap that needs to be done. Did I ever say there wasn't? No. And does that mean you don't learn a LOT too? Absolutely not. Ask any medical student, and look at Omores' post above, and you'll find that it's true. What was your point?

    I'm not talking about rankings here, I'm talking about a couple of anecdotes I've heard from some physicians themselves, who work with residents from medical schools all over the country, about Duke students. As with anything though, you could go asking around and hear a wide spectrum of opinions about Duke students, or any other students. I never meant to suggest otherwise. Basically, all I meant to point out is that we're not somehow lacking because we only get one year of basic science work. In fact, many would argue that it's an advantage, because clinical work starts sooner. I was simply responding to the above concerns about somehow being disadvantaged due to having only 1 year of basic science.

    I COMPLETELY agree, and never meant to imply otherwise. Again, I was simply responding to a number of negative comments about having only 1 year of basic science, and wanted to demonstrate that Duke students aren't disadvantaged because of it. It's absolutely critical that each person finds the school that's right for them. It's also critical that comments be taken in context, otherwise these sorts of discussions become counterproductive.
     
  31. TommyGunn04

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    Exactly! I feel the same way. I absolutely LOVE the Duke curriculum, but it's definitely not for everyone. The important thing is to figure out what works FOR YOU, and then find out what schools do things that way.
     
  32. Thewonderer

    Thewonderer Senior Member

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    You must be either on medicine or have good residents. When my friend went through his 2nd year, he had trouble staying awake on surgery and ob-gyn. Alternatively, you can try to walk up to a medicine resident and tell him that even though your team has been hit with 5 admissions that night, you don't feel like working up on the next pt because he is the 3rd case of rule out MI since you came on the service. You then tell him that it is now midnight and you need to go home and sleep so you can learn more the next day. Let's see how happy that resident will be.
     
  33. pathdr2b

    pathdr2b Banned
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    Maybe I'm missing something here, but don't ALL medical students struggle with sleep deprivation during the clinical years?:confused:
     
  34. omores

    omores sleep deprived

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    Yes, surgery's in a class by itself -- complete sleep deprivation, very little learning (though a friend of mine got to amputate a toe last week). And sleep deprivation is par for the course on many rotations (as it is at any school). But, with the notable exception of surgery, that does not preclude learning. I stand by my statement that I'm learning far more on the wards than I did in class -- even when thoroughly exhausted.
     
  35. neuromd03

    neuromd03 Banned
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    Sleep deprivation? Maybe. Here's my typical day during my surgery rotation.

    4 AM - Shower, eat breakfast
    4:45 AM - Leave for the hospital
    5 AM - Pre-round
    6 AM - Round
    7 AM - 7:30-8 PM OR (skip lunch if scrubbed in or eat cookies)
    8 PM - Go home. Eat dinner. Read Surgical Recall and do practice questions.
    9 PM - Sleep.

    4 AM - Repeat the above.

    You also come in Saturdays and Sundays. I worked 3 weeks straight without a day off and then did it again the second half of my 2 month rotation. I also took night call before my final.
     
  36. Thewonderer

    Thewonderer Senior Member

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    Not necessarily. Some schools are harder on the students than others. Some also have more out-pt experience built into their core rotations which are "cushier." Some also require students to stay overnight while some don't

    see....

    http://www.studentdoctor.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46813

    very nice. still positive.....
     
  37. omores

    omores sleep deprived

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