dumb but serious question

[futuredoc0307]

I hear a lot that if you treat medical school as a 9-5 job with overtime as needed, you should be fine...does the 9-5 include off-lecture studying? It just seems too good to be true that a med student can have up to 7 hours a day of free time if time is managed wisely.

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[Peter Pan.]

Applying the upcoming cycle. Sure hope so.

 

[puahate]

What if you are aiming for AOA?

 

[LizzyM]

My school has been known to hold 8 a.m. mandatory sessions so there goes that theory out the window.
It would be a good question to ask students at each school when you interview how many hours per week they devote to school work in and out of classroom & lab.
During clerkships (medicine, surgery, pediatrics, OB-GYN, neurology, psychiatry, etc), you are required to do some overnights -- I strongly suspect that the time on the wards exceeds 40 hours per week and there is the need for studying for exams that are administered during each clerkship.

 

[brownsfan999]

I've had multiple med students/residents/attendings tell me that's how they got through preclinical years. Obviously depends what you want to go in to (how much research you'll be doing, how much you study for step 1) and what school you go to (+/-mandatory lectures, PBLs, ect). A lot of people on sdn report putting in a lot more than 40 hours though.

 

[Catalystik]

I hear a lot that if you treat medical school as a 9-5 job with overtime as needed, you should be fine...does the 9-5 include off-lecture studying? It just seems too good to be true that a med student can have up to 7 hours a day of free time if time is managed wisely.

Not likely in the preclinical years, from my experience (of traditional lecture format). Might be possible for some of the core rotations when you're not on call with your resident.

 

[deleted804295]

If undergrad is not 9-5 I wouldn't bank on it being the case for med school. I see the same med students (first years) at the library every day until around 6. You also have to wake up early.

Med school is very doable, and not that bad outside of midterms/finals but it still requires a lot of work.

 

[ciestar]

My school has been known to hold 8 a.m. mandatory sessions so there goes that theory out the window.
It would be a good question to ask students at each school when you interview how many hours per week they devote to school work in and out of classroom & lab.
During clerkships (medicine, surgery, pediatrics, OB-GYN, neurology, psychiatry, etc), you are required to do some overnights -- I strongly suspect that the time on the wards exceeds 40 hours per week and there is the need for studying for exams that are administered during each clerkship.

I just did a 6-6 for surgery. We have 24 hour call as well and almost always put in over 60 hours a week just in the hospital.

Also had overnights for OB and that was 50-60 hours a week.

Basically, nothing really in third year has been “9-5”.

 

[stubblesmcgee]

It's going to really depend on the student. Im near the end of our first preclinical year and the amount of time spent studying really varies from person to person. Some can get away with a 9-5 mentality, others need much more time.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

It's going to really depend on the student. Im near the end of our first preclinical year and the amount of time spent studying really varies from person to person. Some can get away with a 9-5 mentality, others need much more time.

this 100%. some people never leave the library, some people find plenty of free time. some people fill the time not spent studying with research/extracurriculars.

Think about how much you study now compared to your undergrad peers - You will probably need to increase your studying regardless, but most people won't flip to the complete opposite end of the scale. people who don't study much to do well in undergrad will still probably study less than others, and people who need lots of study time will probably need to keep grinding.

 

[futuredoc0307]

this 100%. some people never leave the library, some people find plenty of free time. some people fill the time not spent studying with research/extracurriculars.

Think about how much you study now compared to your undergrad peers - You will probably need to increase your studying regardless, but most people won't flip to the complete opposite end of the scale. people who don't study much to do well in undergrad will still probably study less than others, and people who need lots of study time will probably need to keep grinding.

Oh God. I hope this is true. almost all of the exams I took in my undergrad were crams from 1-2 nights before. i don’t have the willpower to study even 4 days before an any exam. I always found it impressive when a friend of mine actually studies after lecture. I tend to wait until all material is covered in class then I begin to cram. I’m not sure if I’m good at learning quickly or not but I know for sure this habit is very dangerous. I do find that i learn easily if the professor simply offers good slides where at least it doesn’t cause me to pull my hairs trying to decode his/her notes.

How good are med school professors at offering clear notes? The most difficult part for me is when I don’t know the professor’s expectation on what I’m supposed to learnt

 

[dr_kateb]

people who don't study much to do well in undergrad will still probably study less than others, and people who need lots of study time will probably need to keep grinding.

I've been awake for the last 22 hours straight due to cramming for a physiology test I just took. Pls be true I just bought a new Xbox.

 

[ciestar]

Oh God. I hope this is true. almost all of the exams I took in my undergrad were crams from 1-2 nights before. i don’t have the willpower to study even 4 days before an any exam. I always found it impressive when a friend of mine actually studies after lecture. I tend to wait until all material is covered in class then I begin to cram. I’m not sure if I’m good at learning quickly or not but I know for sure this habit is very dangerous. I do find that i learn easily if the professor simply offers good slides where at least it doesn’t cause me to pull my hairs trying to decode his/her notes.

How good are med school professors at offering clear notes? The most difficult part for me is when I don’t know the professor’s expectation on what I’m supposed to learnt

Do not cram in med school. You NEED to study everyday, or almost everyday.

I think your question is lecturer dependent. Some gave clearer notes than others. Some added in way too many unnecessary details. Either way, an exam amounted to a lot of notes/slides (hundreds, many path lectures were 150 slides each). This is also why many students largely abandon this stuff for review material though.

 

[dr_kateb]

Do not cram in med school. You NEED to study everyday, or almost everyday.

I think your question is lecturer dependent. Some gave clearer notes than others. Some added in way too many unnecessary details. Either way, an exam amounted to a lot of notes/slides (hundreds, many path lectures were 150 slides each). This is also why many students largely abandon this stuff for review material though.

That’s it? 150 per test?

 

[ciestar]

That’s it? 150 per test?

No lol
Per lecture. And that was JUST pathology. Add in hundreds and hundreds more pages or slides for pathophys, microbiology, and pharm.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

I've been awake for the last 22 hours straight due to cramming for a physiology test I just took. Pls be true I just bought a new Xbox.

Just gonna caution you now that 22 hours straight of cramming for an exam in undergrad probably doesn't place you in the "not much studying required" category, just the procrastinator category...

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

Oh God. I hope this is true. almost all of the exams I took in my undergrad were crams from 1-2 nights before. i don’t have the willpower to study even 4 days before an any exam. I always found it impressive when a friend of mine actually studies after lecture. I tend to wait until all material is covered in class then I begin to cram. I’m not sure if I’m good at learning quickly or not but I know for sure this habit is very dangerous. I do find that i learn easily if the professor simply offers good slides where at least it doesn’t cause me to pull my hairs trying to decode his/her notes.

How good are med school professors at offering clear notes? The most difficult part for me is when I don’t know the professor’s expectation on what I’m supposed to learnt

Please don't take what I said as "you won't need to change your study habits at all." I say this as someone very prone to procrastinating and cramming. I have done it at times in med school and made it through the exams okay, but I also know that it's not sustainable and it is not conducive to long term learning for step and beyond. you WILL need to adjust your study habits in med school, I just mean that people are unlikely to adjust their habits all the way to the opposite end of the study spectrum unless they are truly reinventing themselves

 

[AllBleedingStops]

i don’t have the willpower to study even 4 days before an any exam. I always found it impressive when a friend of mine actually studies after lecture. I tend to wait until all material is covered in class then I begin to cram. I’m not sure if I’m good at learning quickly or not but I know for sure this habit is very dangerous.

This is a really dangerous habit. You will not only do poorly because you won't have time to cover everything but you also will retain less long term which may not be as important in undergrad but becomes very important in medical school since there are cumulative finals (at least at my school) and Step 1.

I do find that i learn easily if the professor simply offers good slides where at least it doesn’t cause me to pull my hairs trying to decode his/her notes.

How good are med school professors at offering clear notes? The most difficult part for me is when I don’t know the professor’s expectation on what I’m supposed to learnt

Professors generally do not offer good slides with clear goals, even if there are some form of learning objectives. Often, learning objectives are vague so that they essentially boil down to "learn everything" to cover the school's ass. There are often hundreds and hundreds of slides for a topic and you will be forced to decipher what is important and isn't. This is part of why so many students rely so heavily on 3rd party resources. Finally, for most classes we have at least 4 lecturers if not double digits of lecturers so good luck figuring out everyone's expectations.

 

[dr_kateb]

Just gonna caution you now that 22 hours straight of cramming for an exam in undergrad probably doesn't place you in the "not much studying required" category, just the procrastinator category...

I don’t consider 22 hours much... It was 5 weeks worth of material and I didn’t really look at it until Saturday. The actual time spent studying quite a bit less.

 

[Goro]

I hear a lot that if you treat medical school as a 9-5 job with overtime as needed, you should be fine...does the 9-5 include off-lecture studying? It just seems too good to be true that a med student can have up to 7 hours a day of free time if time is managed wisely.

Treat it as a nine-to-five job and you will never be a doctor.

same holds true for grad school

 

[puahate]

Was undergrad a 9-5 for you guys?

 

[stubblesmcgee]

Oh God. I hope this is true. almost all of the exams I took in my undergrad were crams from 1-2 nights before. i don’t have the willpower to study even 4 days before an any exam.

How good are med school professors at offering clear notes? The most difficult part for me is when I don’t know the professor’s expectation on what I’m supposed to learnt

 

[deleted804295]

I don't know a single high functioning person in my major in undergrad who can get by without studying. Not sure where you guys are meeting these people lol.

 

[Peter Pan.]

Was undergrad a 9-5 for you guys?

For the people who didn’t work a job or do a lot of extracurriculars I’m sure there are some who had it 9-5 at times during the semester.

 

[puahate]

For the people who didn’t work a job or do a lot of extracurriculars I’m sure there are some who had it 9-5 at times during the semester.

Yeah undergrad definitely was not 9 to 5 for me due to the things you said. Just wanted to make sure i wasn't slow or low iq.

 

[Peter Pan.]

Yeah undergrad definitely was not 9 to 5 for me due to the things you said. Just wanted to make sure i wasn't slow or low iq.

Yeah I’ve always worked and did lots of extracurriculars but some of my premed friends who didn’t work and did less extracurriculars had a ton more free time.

 

[907914]

Was undergrad a 9-5 for you guys?

I know personally, undergrad has almost been a joke. Maybe 15 hours of class and 5 hours of studying outside of class. Studying still needed, but not to any major degree regardless of the class. Still have time for work, reserves, hiking, time with daughter/spouse etc.

However, despite undergrad being so easy, I wholly anticipate medical school to consume at least 40 hours (likely more) per week, but never in a 9-5 fashion. From what I gather, some weeks in preclinical will be 20 hours and some will be 70 just based on the topic. These are ‘hours’ from a current MS3 that I know who was in the exact same situation as I am in undergrad (where is is just a breeze).

 

[futuredoc0307]

I have had some seemingly very smart nontrads make it to medical school only to drop out during the first year. My assessment of at least two them was they were so smart that they were essentially lazy in UG, powering their way thru exams on cramming and memory, without developing the discipline needed for real studying and learning. Why medical schools look for motivation, commitment and achievement is because that is what is needed to be successful in medical school and residency training.

I do not have an issue with “real studying”. In fact, I can never memorize anything if I don’t truly understand it. I can read a sentence a dozen times and it would never stick in my memory if I don’t understand what it means. So my form of cramming also involves truly learning. However, I do admit that I’m very undisciplined. I could be on a study desk for up to 6 hours and I’d probably spend 1 or 2 hours actually studying, where 70% of that time is just me collecting and summarizing notes from sources (books, slides, YouTube) and the 30% actually trying to memorize and comprehend what I collected. I do recognize that time management is detrimental in med school and that I lack that skill almost entirely which I plan to work on for sure, but I was just curious on the nature of time needed for studying, assuming one was excellent at time management and self-discipline.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

Was undergrad a 9-5 for you guys?

In terms of hours spent studying? undergrad was way less than 9 to 5 for me, except for maybe around midterms or when I was writing my thesis. In terms of all the other things I had going on? No. I put probably twice as many hours each week into various ECs as I did studying, which cumulatively came out to way more than 9 to 5. But everyone is going to have a different experience and different priorities - I probably sacrificed some grade points along the way in return for more time outside the library, but it got me where I wanted to be.

Treat it as a nine-to-five job and you will never be a doctor..,

same holds true for grad school

speaking strictly about preclinicals, I think if you refuse to do any studying outside of 9am-5pm then yes, you won't be a doctor. But it's certainly possible to find an appropriate balance between studying and the rest of life, which for some people can approximate something close to a 40 hr work week. Again this is some people, not everyone, and this is probably much more true for those of us not gunning to be dermatorthoneurosurgeons. But I think some people have really unhealthy attitudes about how many hours they need to spend in the library, and cut out all other aspects of their life, which ultimately is detrimental to your studying (and general happiness in life). Taking time to yourself to relax/workout/do fulfilling ECs makes the hours spent studying much more effective and palatable.

From what I gather, some weeks in preclinical will be 20 hours and some will be 70 just based on the topic. These are ‘hours’ from a current MS3 that I know who was in the exact same situation as I am in undergrad (where is is just a breeze).

This is more accurate to my experience. You'll definitely need to cross the 40hr level at certain times, but there are easier periods that can help balance that out.

 

[differentiating]

I hear a lot that if you treat medical school as a 9-5 job with overtime as needed, you should be fine...does the 9-5 include off-lecture studying? It just seems too good to be true that a med student can have up to 7 hours a day of free time if time is managed wisely.

It might not be exactly 9-5 - as pointed out above, required classes can be at 8 - but I didn’t do more than maybe 1h of studying beyond watching or attending all classes per day in MS1/2, which increased to maybe 4-5h the weekend before the test. Depends on how you study and how efficient you are.

In clerkships, 9-5 are your rare easy rotations. Expect to spend ~12h/day in the hospital on most.

 

[907914]

It might not be exactly 9-5 - as pointed out above, required classes can be at 8 - but I didn’t do more than maybe 1h of studying beyond watching or attending all classes per day in MS1/2, which increased to maybe 4-5h the weekend before the test. Depends on how you study and how efficient you are.

In clerkships, 9-5 are your rare easy rotations. Expect to spend ~12h/day in the hospital on most.

Is this a hard-and-fast rule for 3rd and 4th year, or is 4th year more what you make it?

 

[differentiating]

Is this a hard-and-fast rule for 3rd and 4th year, or is 4th year more what you make it?

It's the case for most rotations in my experience, though consult services may be more like 10h days and some surgical/OB rotations may be more like 14h. 4th year you can definitely take some lighter rotations (like I'm on a pretty chill one right now), but that probably won't be until after interviews since you'll be doing your sub-Is before then.

 

[907914]

It's the case for most rotations in my experience, though consult services may be more like 10h days and some surgical/OB rotations may be more like 14h. 4th year you can definitely take some lighter rotations (like I'm on a pretty chill one right now), but that probably won't be until after interviews since you'll be doing your sub-Is before then.

I know sub-Is are super common for DO and high speed specialties, but are they needed for low yield like path, PMR, etc

 

[differentiating]

I know sub-Is are super common for DO and high speed specialties, but are they needed for low yield like path, PMR, etc

Yes. You should definitely do at least 1 sub-I in the field you apply into, regardless of how competitive it is. My school requires that everyone do 2 sub-Is during their fourth year; I think most require at least one.

 

[ciestar]

I know sub-Is are super common for DO and high speed specialties, but are they needed for low yield like path, PMR, etc

My school requires two to even graduate, and I am likely doing FM.

Hours are pretty hard and fast. You’re there when your team wants you there.

 

[futuredoc0307]

It might not be exactly 9-5 - as pointed out above, required classes can be at 8 - but I didn’t do more than maybe 1h of studying beyond watching or attending all classes per day in MS1/2, which increased to maybe 4-5h the weekend before the test. Depends on how you study and how efficient you are.

In clerkships, 9-5 are your rare easy rotations. Expect to spend ~12h/day in the hospital on most.

This doesn’t sound bad at all

 

[lalalallala]

Depends on the school, the year, and the person. I know people who go to schools where class is from 8-12 every day. So then they study from 12-5 or so and then go home and don't do any more work. These are usually people though that have a family - I point that out because I think you really have to be motivated in order to make those hours studying very productive.

Other schools have more class time, so then I feel like it would be harder to do 9-5

Also depends on how good of a studier you are