Dutch Economics Student

[IWBAD12345]

Dear all,

I am currently almost finished with my Economics degree.

I am 22 year old.

Over the past year after a lot of thinking what I want to do with my life I have decided I want to switch to Medcine. I am not sure what specialty I am interested in though, likely infectious disease or neurology.

I was wondering if you know if it is even possible to study Medicine in the USA for me? Furthermore, if it is, what steps I should take?

Furthermore one last question, I am already 22, my GPA is a 3.3 (dropped because of an illness that lasted for more than 2 years during my studies, all documented). Do I have a chance?

Thanks so much guys.

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[MSclerosis]

Have you considered studying in Europe?

 

[DrMidlife]

US med school without US citizenship or US permanent residency:
1. requires 1-2 years of full time study at the undergrad level, to show capability in the US ed system
2. requires US grades & MCAT to be very high such as top 5% of candidates. 55% to 60% of candidates are rejected each year.
3. requires 1-4 years of the cost of med school to be put into escrow prior to starting school. That's $50k to $85k per year.
4. is somewhat less difficult for Canadians, but not much.

 

[IWBAD12345]

Have you considered studying in Europe?

Yes I have, but I see myself not living here for the rest of my life, therefore I thought maybe US was a better option.

Do you think studying in Europe is a better option? Will it still be possible to move abroad then, to for instance the USA?

 

[IWBAD12345]

US med school without US citizenship or US permanent residency:
1. requires 1-2 years of full time study at the undergrad level, to show capability in the US ed system
2. requires US grades & MCAT to be very high such as top 5% of candidates. 55% to 60% of candidates are rejected each year.
3. requires 1-4 years of the cost of med school to be put into escrow prior to starting school. That's $50k to $85k per year.
4. is somewhat less difficult for Canadians, but not much.

Thank you so much for this information.

The 1-2 years of undergrad, is that really necessary when you have a bachelor degree with a university that is ranked top 50 world wide?

Thanks again.

 

[DrMidlife]

US med school is close to impossible for international students.

US _residency_ is considerably less impossible for foreign medical grads.

But do some learning on the US healthcare non-system. It will seem completely barbaric compared to healthcare in the Netherlands.

 

[DrMidlife]

it doesn't matter what you think is necessary. US med schools have no concern for the ed systems in other countries and are not going to spend any time learning about your school.

There are over 150 US med schools, each gets around 5000 applicants for 150 seats and favors rejection. point being if a US med school says it wants to see 1-2 years of US schooling that's just what you do. and then you still don't get far if you're a non-citizen.

you'll find that Dutch med schools feel similarly about US applicants.

the US doesn't have a centralized education or healthcare system with a lot of moderate smart people setting directions that get followed. that's a huge difference compared to a small Euro nation.

 

[DrMidlife]

a bachelor degree with a university that is ranked top 50 world wide?

What are the US top 50 schools, Stanford, Harvard? A 3.3 from those schools doesn't get you into a US med school either, fwiw.

 

[IWBAD12345]

US med school is close to impossible for international students.

US _residency_ is considerably less impossible for foreign medical grads.

But do some learning on the US healthcare non-system. It will seem completely barbaric compared to healthcare in the Netherlands.

Thank you for your reply.

Do you study in the US, if so would you rather study in Europe?

 

[IWBAD12345]

it doesn't matter what you think is necessary. US med schools have no concern for the ed systems in other countries and are not going to spend any time learning about your school.

There are over 150 US med schools, each gets around 5000 applicants for 150 seats and favors rejection. point being if a US med school says it wants to see 1-2 years of US schooling that's just what you do. and then you still don't get far if you're a non-citizen.

you'll find that Dutch med schools feel similarly about US applicants.

the US doesn't have a centralized education or healthcare system with a lot of moderate smart people setting directions that get followed. that's a huge difference compared to a small Euro nation.

Thanks for your clear reply.

 

[IWBAD12345]

What are the US top 50 schools, Stanford, Harvard? A 3.3 from those schools doesn't get you into a US med school either, fwiw.

Thanks again.

 

[DrMidlife]

Do you study in the US, if so would you rather study in Europe?

You should find somebody who has lived and studied and worked in both places to answer that question. My vision of the Netherlands is probably as rosy and pretty as your vision of the US. Neither of us probably has any idea what we're talking about. Come visit. I'll do the same.

If you're asking to gauge whether one is "better" than the other, that depends on your values and politics. If you want to be in a system that prioritizes maximizing the wealth opportunities for the wealthiest people by making the least wealthy people think they have a birthright to the same opportunities, then you'll love the US. If you want to be in a system that has some success at maximizing the odds that any one individual will be safe and healthy and educated and employed, then you probably should stay put.

To generalize, if you heard that the US has health insurance now because of Obamacare, about 25% of the US hates Obamacare because they think it's socialism, about 25% hates it because it isn't socialism, about 25% hate it because they just started paying their own bill for it, and about 25% can't get health care from it at all. Again, that's a generalization. But see if you know enough about your own healthcare system to compare it. That's usually more than a normal college kid in any country can do.

 

[MSclerosis]

Since you are Dutch, it may be more appropriate for you to rewrite high-school leaving exams in the Netherlands or another Western European country. like Germany/Austria/Schweiz or France or Belgium. Alternately, you could try a place like Ireland, UK, Poland, Hungary, .... and if you want to go international, there is the option of Australia.

All of these places will be 10 times easier to get into, and cost you less, while giving you a decent education and a chance to practice in the EU. If you want to come to the US, you will be able to do that too, but will have to compete for residency spots (but if you are confident, and can do really well on American USMLE exams during medical school, then may be you will have a good shot at coming to the US).

Realistically though, if you want to go through the US, you are going to be investing many many years and incurring a lot of debt (A LOT! think like 100k USD) in order to take the prerequisite courses at an American institution and meet other requirements. Then, you will be like any other premed on this forum, but you will be an international applicant with much lower chances of acceptance than everyone else, despite having better stats on paper. There is no guarantee that you will be successful, no matter how hard you work.

US education truly costs a fortune, it is not like Germany. In fact, you might be better off studying and reaching out to Canada before you apply into the US. Even so, there will be no end in sight in reaching for med. Based on your international status and prior 3.3 gpa, I wouldn't advise you going for this. Realistically, you will have very low chances gaining acceptance to US/Canadian medical schools (unless you have crazy life experiences, on top of the 95 percentile scores that you will have to get on the new MCAT exam).

One loophole might be if you are a fluent French speaker. You would then be eligible to target medical schools in Quebec or the one in Ottawa for the French medicin programs, but it's a longshot!

I don't mean to discourage you, but I believe there are MUCH BETTER options available for you to study in Europe. You are presumably an EU citizen. If I were you, I'd for sure study somewhere in the EU, and then stay in the EU (or attempt to match for a US residency during EU med school). This is a much better option, with much better chances of coming to the US, and much better chances of becoming a physician at all (with a fraction of the debt and opportunity costs).

Do you think graduating in a bottom 50 American medical schools (and possibly serving in a middle of nowhere community with gun crimes/poverty) will be comparable (or desirable) to graduating from a top 50 EU institution? Because these are the prospects you are looking at if you invest yourself fully into this and do a good job with the risky US route.

Strongly suggest that you stick to the EU. The US route is not advisable for internationals with GPA like yours.