ECFMG certification

[Davide]

Hi everyone:
After reading an Australian medical student's post on USMLEforum, I found that I will encounter similar problem. Our school year also runs from Feb to Nov like the Australians. As I am currently a final year medical student, I have not yet graduated until early December (we write our grand final exam in late November.) Hence, I will receive my graduation diploma in late December. One of the ECFMG certification requirements is to have your medical diploma confirmed by your medical school official. So, I won't be able to complete the task until late December, which passes most residency programs' application deadlines. I have completed all the other requirements (ie. USMLE, CSA, TOEFL ...) except graduation.

When most programs require a valid ECFMG certificate, does that mean we need to have it before they will look at our application file or we must have it before they will rank us?

Do you think it's possible to have it waived as a CURRENT medical student (senior) until I graduate from medical school? I mean US MD seniors don't need to present their graduation diploma until they graduate right?

Otherwise, does that mean I have to wait another year to apply?

Thank you very much for your advice.

Davide

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[BellKicker]

Relax, Davide. I went through that same though process as you a couple of months ago and someone on this forum told me to stop hyperventilating.

The diploma is the only thing you can entre the match without. The 4 tests have to be passed but the actual graduation can wait. When you think about it, probably half of all IMGs are Americans going to US-style 4-year schools. I'm pretty sure they all graduate the spring before they start residency.

You can search for the thread I started back then. Someone gave a link to ecfmg where it clearly stated that the diploma could wait.

Are you entering the match in 2004? (Myself? Not till 2005 but I have a habit of stressing about it, anyway).

 

[Davide]

Thanks!
Your replies to both of my posts have been very helpful.
Are you from Denmark?

 

[Winged Scapula]

While it is technically true that you can enter the match without an ECFMG certificate, be forewarned that there are programs out there which will require your certificate to even interview you.

Are the programs up front about this? No, at least not in my experience. I had no way of knowing which programs required the certificate (as I too did not have it before applying) and therefore paid to apply to programs that wouldn't even process my file.

Fortunately this only happened at a couple of programs - but be aware that some may indeed require the certificate as some sort of "assurance" that you will be eligible to start come July 1.

 

[Davide]

Hi Kimberli:
Did you also complete all the other requirements except graduation from medical school?
I'm very worried about it right now, as I don't want to wait for another year to apply. So if those programs require a valid ECFMG certificate, does that mean most IMG's have to wait for another year?
Thanks!

 

[BellKicker]

Originally posted by Kimberli Cox
While it is technically true that you can enter the match without an ECFMG certificate, be forewarned that there are programs out there which will require your certificate to even interview you.

Kimberly, are you sure about this? It's my impression that very few IMGs are certified when they apply. How could they be? Like Davide says, all IMGs would be delayed one year if that was the case.

Hmmm, old fears rising again.

Davide, yes I'm from Denmark. I'll graduate in december like you (only in 2004; I wish it was in 2003......). Can I ask you what your application schedule is like now? You must almost be in the process of applying to programs, right? How many programs do you think you'll apply to?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Bellkicker and Davide...

I am POSITIVE this was the case as I received emails from the schools asking if I had my ECFMG certificate. When I called to discuss this, I was told that applications were not accepted from those without a valid ECFMG certificate.

I explained the timing issue and basically all I got was a [presumed] shrug and "I guess you'll have to wait until next year to apply." No thanks - there were plenty of schools willing to interview me or at least process my app without the certificate. But yes, the alternative or expectation was that you would apply AFTER you got the certificate - which generally means waiting out a year ... something some people do.

At the time I applied all I had to do was receive my diploma and get the certificate. Scores were all in and available in my ERAS file. I suspect it was a way to discourage IMGs from applying.

Keep in mind however, that the vast majority of programs do not require the certificate (and it is frowned upon my the NRMP as they do not require it but note that programs can have additional requirements above what the NRMP requires). In addition, many California programs required the "California letter" before applying although it was apparent to me that I could not get the letter without my certificiate...not sure if this is still the case.

At any rate, I wouldn't worry about it as these schools were in the minority and only for surgical residencies...there are plenty of other programs out there...and besides, things may have changed in the last 3 years.

 

[BellKicker]

Thanks for taking the time to explain this, Kimberli. I really appreciate it.

Come to think of it, I have seen a few program web sites that specifically ask for the ecfmg certificate.

 

[Skip Intro]

Originally posted by Kimberli Cox
I suspect it was a way to discourage IMGs from applying.

First, see the bottom snip of my tag line. Second, you can always start in one program and re-apply as a PGY-2 for another after you have this "magical" ECFMG certificate. Of course, you better make sure you start in at least a four-year program (psych, etc.) before you try to tranfer into a three-year. Otherwise, you (or I should say the hospital) will lose a substantial amount of funding due to the way it's allocated at the federal level... that is if the actually take you. As the old saying goes, money talks and bullsh*t walks.

-Skip

 

[Davide]

Hi:
Most of the residency programs I searched online state "a valid ECFMG certificate" as one of the requirements for IMG's. I don't know if they mean to have it along with the application or to have it before the ranking or before you start working. It's so confusing. Do you think the residency staff will be able to answer that question?
Also, Kimberli, do you still remember the schools you applied to that ask for a ECFMG certificate? Thanks!

 

[BellKicker]

Davide, Skip Intro.....

I found this list of program requirements posted on another forum.

http://usmle.net/match/messages2003a/132893.html

There are quite a few places that want the certification. I imagine that means ecfmg certified before applying, not before interviewing. Then there's one program in LaCrosse, WI, that wants "graduate of same year". That's more to my liking. I think there are some mistakes, too. I'm almost 100% sure Mayo doesn't require ecfmg certification before interviews, yet it's stated as a requirement.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I reviewed the link above and found that these requirements are not accurate, at least for surgical programs. Many that are listed as requiring the certificate, interviewed me without it (ie, Allegheny in Pittsburgh, Christiana in Delaware) and others listed as not requiring certificate did (ie, Abington, East Lansing, Hennepin in Minneapolis).

At any rate, I'm not sure its worth worrying about - residency coordinators will generally tell you up front if you call and ask whether or not they require the ECFMG certificate. Better to find out up front rather than pay the application fee.

Most only require it to continue in the match, or at least that you be certificate eligible (all requirements completed, passed, etc. just paperwork processing left) by match time or obviously, at the latest, have it to start working.