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ED Attendings: How many of you work for 501c3's? How many 501c3 jobs out there?

Discussion in 'Emergency Medicine' started by theWUbear, Mar 1, 2017.

  1. theWUbear

    theWUbear EM PGY1 7+ Year Member

    Jun 7, 2009
    The difference between paying off my loans with a hammer and doing public service loan forgiveness is saving $300,000 doing the PSLF program.

    This is, provided that after 4 years of EM Residency I find a 501c3 job for 6 years.

    I'm into research so academics fits me personality wise. I do not know how difficult it is to get a job in 'academics'. So I'm asking the big picture question:

    How many 501c3 jobs are out there? (Vs jobs at hospitals that can very well be non-for-profit, but are contracting to an EM group that is a for-profit employer, employing the EM docs within the non-for-profit hospital, thereby disqualifying them for PSLF)
    • More in the community than you would expect?
    • Next to none in the community?
    • Just about all the 'major' academic centers?
    • Fewer academic institutions than you would think?
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  3. migm

    migm 7+ Year Member

    Aug 12, 2008
    Community EM, not 501c3. 7 years at academic rates - i'd rather pay off my loans in a few years at a community rate and work where I want to work. just my opinion (and easy to do without kids)
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
  4. TimesNewRoman

    TimesNewRoman 2+ Year Member

    May 14, 2013
    3 year residency. Problem solved. I just saved you 250k.
    northernpsy and Girly X like this.
  5. HankTheTank910


    Jan 14, 2016
    Echo the above. I see you're an MS4. If you want to save the most money then you're doing a huge disservice going for a 4 year program. One of our grads last year, at a 3 year program, landed a faculty job 5 months out of residency. He saved hundreds of thousands of dollars, and has a gig in academics.
  6. carbonizedeyesockets

    carbonizedeyesockets 2+ Year Member

    Oct 27, 2013
    East Coast
    You do NOT need to work for a 501c3 to qualify for PSLF, but that tax designation will automatically qualify. As far as I know, working as a physician for a company that is non-profit (even if not 501c3) can also possibly qualify if you are providing patient care.

    I signed up for PSLF, but I just took a hospital-employed position for a for-profit community hospital (for the area, the pay is very good). So, I am looking at aggressively paying down the debt, but will be meeting with a financial advisor on how best to approach paying off my debt (which is substantial since I had to borrow to cover tuition and COL). If I aggressively pay it down, I will probably be putting 100k towards my debt per year. That will leave me spending cash that is still double what I am taking home as a resident.

    Anyhow, there are more and more hospital-employed EM positions, and fortunately most health systems are non-profit. Also, you can look into IHS and other govt employed EM jobs where your pay will be less, but they may have tuition reimbursement as a benefit and then you can still siphon a large chuck of your take home pay to put towards paying down your debt.
  7. DrYoda

    DrYoda Space Cowboy Physician 7+ Year Member

    Jun 22, 2008
    Dagobah System
    I don't. I make more money in the community setting and would rather just pay it off.
  8. Dakota

    Dakota Senior Member Physician 10+ Year Member

    Sep 5, 2005
    Hard to say how prevalent it is.

    I am employed at a 501c3. It pays more than the other hospital in town (IC at an HCA hospital). It also has the benefit of a defined benefit pension plan.

    After doing a 4 year residency and 3 years here so far, I am keeping my fingers crossed there are no major changes to PSLF.
  9. theWUbear

    theWUbear EM PGY1 7+ Year Member

    Jun 7, 2009
    Thank you all for your responses so far. I have been in touch with the author of the White Coat Investor website, and my home PD and ED leadership - it's been tough to get a good estimate of what's out there; I appreciate your helping.

    The difference between paying off the debt with a hammer (refinancing and going at 'em) vs PSLF is $300,000 for me (paying ~$175k vs $450k over the life of $350k of loans) so despite the risk in doing PSLF I think it's the right way to go for me, coupled with 'living like a resident' and putting the rest of my earnings into retirement accounts and other savings vehicles.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2017
  10. Bouddha

    Bouddha 7+ Year Member

    Mar 15, 2010
    Check your promissory notes, but I'm pretty sure that if PSLF is in there (it's on mine), they're obligated to honor it regardless of whether or not they change the law.
  11. Dakota

    Dakota Senior Member Physician 10+ Year Member

    Sep 5, 2005
    I know. I just think it is always smart to hedge your bets. I fear they may change the definition of what forgiveness means. Something like this:

    Congratulations! You have made 120 payments and qualify for public service loan forgiveness. We forgive you for taking out loans. We forgive your loans for anything bad they have done. Now pay up the rest, you rich evil doctor you.


    The Government
  12. DeadCactus

    DeadCactus SDN Lifetime Donor Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Oct 28, 2006
    A community job vs an academic or government job over 6 years can easily be over $600k in lost income. PSLF is great if you your career goals happen to take you somewhere where you can take advantage of it. It shouldn't define where you seek employment..
  13. TimesNewRoman

    TimesNewRoman 2+ Year Member

    May 14, 2013
    Seriously, think about going to a strong 3 year program then going into the community. 3 x 12h x 52wk @ 200/h puts you at just under $375k. You could work more or work at a shop that pays more.
  14. shoal007

    shoal007 2+ Year Member

    Nov 15, 2013
    im at a 501c3, community job. 200+/hr. they are out there and not to hard to find. the pslf is worth about $50k/yr pre-tax dollars for me. hard to make that much more anywhere besides locums.

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
  15. namethatsmell

    namethatsmell 7+ Year Member

    Sep 16, 2010
    Not on PSLF and went the route of taking job I want (community with a touch of academics) and hitting loans hard. Living like a resident. Loans not as high as OP but will be paid off by the end of this year. Then I'll be free and can become a food critic

    Agree with others that if you pick a 3yr prog you like you'll literally save a couple 100k. Flip side though is that if you're smart with your $ it shouldn't really matter over the life of your career.

    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
  16. emergentmd

    emergentmd 7+ Year Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    If you are going to to to BFE, might as well get a job in BFE. Live and work like a resident, make 600-800k your first year, and get all your loans paid for. No strings attached, no commitment, just suck it up.

    After 1st yr, you can do and work wherever you want. Lots of risk with anything associated with the government. Would it not suck if you were in the middle of the payoff and the gov shuts it down. Not funny, but can happen
  17. Old_Mil

    Old_Mil Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    Nov 19, 2004
    Wasn't PSLF capped a few years back to an income level that excluded physicians?
  18. theWUbear

    theWUbear EM PGY1 7+ Year Member

    Jun 7, 2009
    There is no cap on PSLF. President Obama in an initial budget request one year (I was told it was last year) had a cap of 50k on the program, which was met with resistance from lobbying groups in the education fields and was not included in the final passed budget. I was informed of this by a Dept of Ed representative who spoke to our medical school on 'loan exit interview day'. He stated that this is indicative of the program being 'on the radar' of the federal govt now that people are going to start getting paid.
  19. Janders

    Janders Senior Member 10+ Year Member

    May 23, 2002
    I work for a 501c3. My last job was with one as well. Community, but affiliated with a teaching hospital (pay is community...).

    Started paying loans in 2010 so a couple years 'til I test this out...
  20. HunterGatherer

    HunterGatherer HunterGatherer Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Oct 13, 2005
    The Lone Star State
    so has anyone actually zeroed out their debt with this?
  21. theWUbear

    theWUbear EM PGY1 7+ Year Member

    Jun 7, 2009
    Nobody has ever cashed in on this program - it is 9.5 years old. The first will cash in around this Oct or Nov

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