Education differences of the UK vs US vs Australia? I'm an american citizen wanting to study clinical psych for grad

[aspiringpsych3384]

Hi I am an american citizen with my BA in psych and currently live in Melbourne. I am applying to grad schools and really want to study abroad for grad. I am thinking the DclinPsych programs in the UK, specifically Kings college, UCL, and Uni of Manchester. Does anyone have any feedback of these universities, and what the vibe is? What are major educational differences between UK vs US vs Australia? Any feedback helps

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[singasongofjoy]

I can't speak to Australia specifically, but in general the differences between European and American schools and licensing process/requirements are different enough that it really is much more prudent to go to school in the country (or at least continent) where you wish to practice upon completion. In addition, practicing in the country where you plan to work gives you a much better understanding of the systems in which you will be working (including barriers and biases your clients may be facing, laws and policy, etc)

 

[PsyDr]

The USA has very standardized training doctoral curricula that are codified into licensing laws. The UK and Australian programs will not meet these requirements.

Keep in mind that clinical psychology in the UK is a master's level profession. It is likely that this is true for Australia.

Pragmatically, the plan to complete a foreign education does not seem to work. If one searches for a USA based licensed psychologist with a DClinPsych, one will find almost zero results. When that search is further limited to individuals who have obtained their license in the last 10 years, the results are even closer to zero. If you exclude visiting professors with significant academic ties, it's even lower.

There is a reason for this. A quick review of Manchester's program shows it is a 3 year program to graduate. Now compare to a median program in clinical psych with 4-5 years of training, and 1 year of formal internship BEFORE graduating. After graduating US psychologists still have to complete 1-2 years of post doc in order to get licensed. That's a difference of 2-3 years, before post doc.

For this plan to work you'd need: ensure you are eligible for graduate charter designation with BPS, complete a DClinPsych, convince APPIC to allow you to apply for match (unlikely), fly to the USA multiple times for interview, best other students with a completely normal education and grading system in that highly competitive application process, complete a year long full time internship, convince ASPPB that your program is equivalent to a US program, convince ASPPB that your clinical supervision was equivalent to a USA program (it's not), then complete the EPPP, pass the test, convince someone to take you as a post doc which would again require you to explain why the educational differences are not a liability and how your foreign education meets their specific state requirements (e.g., some states require APA curricula or equivalent, some states require specific course titles), then convince the state board to accept the educational differences (unlikely, as the applications are judged by a low level bureaucrat who has zero liability in saying "no" but a high level of liability in saying "yes"), then potentially complete an oral examination where all of the above would again come up. If you apply for states with other specific requirements, you would likely have to complete additional coursework before you get licensed (e.g., Oregon, California, New York, etc).

 

[ExpertHoopJumper]

The USA has very standardized training doctoral curricula that are codified into licensing laws. The UK and Australian programs will not meet these requirements.

Keep in mind that clinical psychology in the UK is a master's level profession. It is likely that this is true for Australia.

Pragmatically, the plan to complete a foreign education does not seem to work. If one searches for a USA based licensed psychologist with a DClinPsych, one will find almost zero results. When that search is further limited to individuals who have obtained their license in the last 10 years, the results are even closer to zero. If you exclude visiting professors with significant academic ties, it's even lower.

There is a reason for this. A quick review of Manchester's program shows it is a 3 year program to graduate. Now compare to a median program in clinical psych with 4-5 years of training, and 1 year of formal internship BEFORE graduating. After graduating US psychologists still have to complete 1-2 years of post doc in order to get licensed. That's a difference of 2-3 years, before post doc.

For this plan to work you'd need: ensure you are eligible for graduate charter designation with BPS, complete a DClinPsych, convince APPIC to allow you to apply for match (unlikely), fly to the USA multiple times for interview, best other students with a completely normal education and grading system in that highly competitive application process, complete a year long full time internship, convince ASPPB that your program is equivalent to a US program, convince ASPPB that your clinical supervision was equivalent to a USA program (it's not), then complete the EPPP, pass the test, convince someone to take you as a post doc which would again require you to explain why the educational differences are not a liability and how your foreign education meets their specific state requirements (e.g., some states require APA curricula or equivalent, some states require specific course titles), then convince the state board to accept the educational differences (unlikely, as the applications are judged by a low level bureaucrat who has zero liability in saying "no" but a high level of liability in saying "yes"), then potentially complete an oral examination where all of the above would again come up. If you apply for states with other specific requirements, you would likely have to complete additional coursework before you get licensed (e.g., Oregon, California, New York, etc).

So you're telling me there's a chance!?

 

[Randompotato]

In line with what OP asked, I wonder what are some concrete advantages that a PhD/PsyD in clinical psych has over a DclinicalPsych/equivalent in Australia? After some googling, it seems like they separated the many of the research components out from the degree? Little information can be found regarding the direct comparison of those degrees.

As an international student, I had the freedom to choose which country to go for my clinical psych degree and had zero regrets pursuing my Ph.D. degree in the US. I see clear superiority of the US system especially when it comes to research training. However, wanting to practice in the future, I wonder how would those extra curricula translate into real-world advantages over clinicians holding a UK/AUS degree if there's any? (Outside of being able to practice in the US in the first place, as I'm planning to return and serve my country ultimately). It sure doesn't feel awesome to see how one can call themselves clinical psychologists with a 2 yrs masters degree and charge 50 USD/hr with 0 experience in my country (where the CoL of the capital is lower than suburb Iowa there're little rules & regulations on psychologists).

This might be silly but I'm asking mainly because I fear one day I would be ostracized by all the master level clinicians as well as the clients (because why pay more when cheaper master's levels can do the job) when I return so it might be best for me to figure out how to articulate the advantages I hold before I graduate.

 

[singasongofjoy]

In line with what OP asked, I wonder what are some concrete advantages that a PhD/PsyD in clinical psych has over a DclinicalPsych/equivalent in Australia? After some googling, it seems like they separated the many of the research components out from the degree? Little information can be found regarding the direct comparison of those degrees.

As an international student, I had the freedom to choose which country to go for my clinical psych degree and had zero regrets pursuing my Ph.D. degree in the US. I see clear superiority of the US system especially when it comes to research training. However, wanting to practice in the future, I wonder how would those extra curricula translate into real-world advantages over clinicians holding a UK/AUS degree if there's any? (Outside of being able to practice in the US in the first place, as I'm planning to return and serve my country ultimately). It sure doesn't feel awesome to see how one can call themselves clinical psychologists with a 2 yrs masters degree and charge 50 USD/hr with 0 experience in my country (where the CoL of the capital is lower than suburb Iowa there're little rules & regulations on psychologists).

This might be silly but I'm asking mainly because I fear one day I would be ostracized by all the master level clinicians as well as the clients (because why pay more when cheaper master's levels can do the job) when I return so it might be best for me to figure out how to articulate the advantages I hold before I graduate.

I think the research background - even if you don't engage in research directly- is an ENORMOUS benefit. You need to be able to read and think critically about the strategies and techniques you're using - and evaluate new things that come out over the years - in order to be the most effective (and, therefore, cost-effective in the long run, I think). You're also better suited to determine which types of evaluations/measures to use in different situations and to track change over time so you know when to try something new if something isn't working. I'm sure there are many other perks but I don't know what the average differences are between the typical education of folks in your country vs the US.

 

[psych.meout]

I think the research background - even if you don't engage in research directly- is an ENORMOUS benefit. You need to be able to read and think critically about the strategies and techniques you're using - and evaluate new things that come out over the years - in order to be the most effective (and, therefore, cost-effective in the long run, I think). You're also better suited to determine which types of evaluations/measures to use in different situations and to track change over time so you know when to try something new if something isn't working. I'm sure there are many other perks but I don't know what the average differences are between the typical education of folks in your country vs the US.

This is really the crux of the issue. In many countries, research experience is being seen as "extracurricular" or somehow separate from clinical training for psychologists, whereas in the US and Canada it is (rightly, IMHO) viewed as an integral part of training even a clinical service-focused psychologist.