Eight osteopathic medical schools made this year’s U.S. News & World Report lists

[wxman393]

KYCOM ranks No. 7 in 2018 Best Medical Schools - The DO

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools?int=a4d609

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[Dr. Death]

8 osteopathic medical schools donated money to US news world report hoping to save face with a BS ranking that they can show potential students to hide from their board scores, match lists, lack of research and shoddy clinical education.

 

[795722]

8 osteopathic medical schools donated money to US news world report hoping to save face with a BS ranking that they can show potential students to hide from their board scores, match lists, lack of research and shoddy clinical education.

Oh shut up.

 

[ortnakas]

I think we all recognize that these rankings are bogus. But if DO schools making the list means more people recognize we're "real doctors" I'll take it as a win.

 

[efle]

lmao at "Rank No. 7" ... (in rural care)

Fun fact: By res director reputation survey, the highest rated DO program (Oklahoma State) came in equal or above 22 MD programs (not counting Puerto Rican schools).

 

[Marrowist]

lmao at "Rank No. 7" ... (in rural care)

Fun fact: By res director reputation survey, the highest rated DO program (Oklahoma State) came in equal or above 22 MD programs (not counting Puerto Rican schools).

Do you have said survey results or an article to elaborate on this? I am going to OK state this fall and would love to read it.

 

[QualityProcess]

Utterly meaningless

 

[efle]

Do you have said survey results or an article to elaborate on this? I am going to OK state this fall and would love to read it.

It comes from someone with a paid US News subscription, which lets you see a lot more detail like acceptance rates and reputation scores.

Same line means equal score:

• Oklahoma State University, Southern Illinois University—Springfield, Florida State University, Howard University, University of Nevada, University of North Dakota, Mercer University
• University of South Dakota (Sanford), East Tennessee State University (Quillen), Marshall University (Edwards)
• Morehouse School of Medicine, University of South Alabama, Western Michigan University
• University of Central Florida, Florida Atlantic University, Florida International University (Wertheim), Central Michigan University, Oakland University
• Quinnipiac University
• Meharry Medical College, The Commonwealth Medical College
• California Northstate University

 

[Dr. Death]

@DNC127

 

[DNC127]

It comes from someone with a paid US News subscription, which lets you see a lot more detail like acceptance rates and reputation scores.

Same line means equal score:

Oklahoma State University, Southern Illinois University—Springfield, Florida State University, Howard University, University of Nevada, University of North Dakota, Mercer University
University of South Dakota (Sanford), East Tennessee State University (Quillen), Marshall University (Edwards)
Morehouse School of Medicine, University of South Alabama, Western Michigan University
University of Central Florida, Florida Atlantic University, Florida International University (Wertheim), Central Michigan University, Oakland University
Quinnipiac University
Meharry Medical College, The Commonwealth Medical College
California Northstate University

Any chance you could screen shot the data showing this? would love to see it but don't wanna subscribe lol

 

[deleted831695]

Not surprised to see mainly the state public schools on these lists.

 

[efle]

Any chance you could screen shot the data showing this? would love to see it but don't wanna subscribe lol

Def cannot publicly share exact data !

 

[tux4]

This isn't useless, it raises awareness. Many many people still aren't even aware of the existence of DO schools. To the peoples in these forums it isn't useful information nor does it help in comparing med schools which everyone on here loves to do.


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[Goro]

What list are you looking at? U MN is 7th best for Primary Care. WashU is 7th best for research.

KYCOM ranks No. 7 in 2018 Best Medical Schools - The DO

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools?int=a4d609

 

[efle]

What list are you looking at?

Rural medicine of course, the rank that really matters

 

[efle]

Oh and btw it ranked #7 ... out of 16 total that participated in this category.

 

[Goro]

There are usually some COMs that make it onto the Primary Care list. WVSOM has been there often

 

[MADD!!!]

Hey @efle , did PCOM happen to be on that list anywhere?

 

[Azete]

Obviously these lists are worthless, but somewhere in the distant future there will be a time that the "top" med schools will include a handful of DO schools as well. Some of the DO programs (certainly not all) are churning out really top notch physicians and I imagine their reputation will reflect that at some point.

I think the merger will hurt DOs initially, but after a decade or so will probably lead to a point where if you hid the name you wouldn't be able to discern whether a match list was from an MD or DO school. I also think some of the lower tier DO schools will cease to exist as accreditation becomes more difficult and they realize their ponzi scheme isn't worth the effort anymore.

 

[efle]

somewhere in the distant future there will be a time that the "top" med schools will include a handful of DO schools as well. Some of the DO programs (certainly not all) are churning out really top notch physicians and I imagine their reputation will reflect that at some point.

Have the 100+ MD schools that have never been high ranked been churning out mediocre docs for the past few decades ???

 

[Azete]

Have the 100+ MD schools that have never been high ranked been churning out mediocre docs for the past few decades ???

I thought it was pretty easy to extrapolate what I meant, but I guess not.

What are the real advantages MD schools have on DO schools? Time, funding, and first mover. As with any business, those advantages become increasingly inconsequential as time elapses -- assuming similar product quality. It's only logic that 100 years from now some DO schools will outperform their peers just as some MD schools have to this point.

 

[MADD!!!]

I thought it was pretty easy to extrapolate what I meant, but I guess not.

What are the real advantages MD schools have on DO schools? Time, funding, and first mover. As with any business, those advantages become increasingly inconsequential as time elapses -- assuming similar product quality. It's only logic that 100 years from now some DO schools will outperform their peers just as some MD schools have to this point.

You lost me here.

 

[efle]

I thought it was pretty easy to extrapolate what I meant, but I guess not.

What are the real advantages MD schools have on DO schools? Time, funding, and first mover. As with any business, those advantages become increasingly inconsequential as time elapses -- assuming similar product quality. It's only logic that 100 years from now some DO schools will outperform their peers just as some MD schools have to this point.

You lost me here.

Yeah I'm lost too, there are new programs less than 50 years old that are already up near the top (e.g. Mayo) and there are places hundreds of years old and attached to major university systems that still aren't

 

[Wjldenver]

"...somewhere in the distant future there will be a time that the "top" med schools will include a handful of DO schools." This will only happen if some DO schools begin to replicate MD program stats. Here are the top MD programs for primary care (Along with their stats.) I do agree with you on one point. In my opinion the weakest DO programs should be shut down post-merger. All they do is tarnish the profession.

#1
University of Washington
Seattle, WA

$34,476 (in-state, full-time); $63,930 (out-of-state, full-time) 1,022 31 3.69 3.7%
#2
University of North Carolina—Chapel Hill
Chapel Hill, NC

$24,837 (in-state, full-time); $51,716 (out-of-state, full-time) 834 31 3.76 3.8%
#3
University of California—San Francisco
San Francisco, CA

$33,420 (in-state, full-time); $45,665 (out-of-state, full-time) 633 34 3.84 3.4%
#4
Oregon Health and Science University
Portland, OR

$39,596 (in-state, full-time); $56,899 (out-of-state, full-time) 578 31 3.69 3.5%
#5
University of Michigan—Ann Arbor
Ann Arbor, MI

$34,050 (in-state, full-time); $52,380 (out-of-state, full-time) 719 34 3.82 6.3%
#6
University of California—Los Angeles (Geffen)
Los Angeles, CA

$32,757 (in-state, full-time); $45,002 (out-of-state, full-time) 737 33 3.72 2.7%
#7
University of Minnesota
Minneapolis, MN

$37,872 (in-state, full-time); $52,797 (out-of-state, full-time) 982 31 3.73 6%
#8Tie
Baylor College of Medicine
Houston, TX

$19,650 (full-time) 718 35 3.86 4.1%
#8Tie
University of Colorado
Aurora, CO

$36,748 (in-state, full-time); $62,704 (out-of-state, full-time) 697 31 3.71 4%
#8Tie
University of Pennsylvania (Perelman)
Philadelphia, PA

$54,036 (full-time) 629 38 3.86 4.7%
#8Tie
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Dallas, TX

$18,493 (in-state, full-time); $31,593 (out-of-state, full-time) 939 34 3.85 8.2%

 

[navigator]

Lol there is no way Baylor and UTSW are in the top 10 for primary care when most of their graduates go into specialty fields. And TCOM is far behind that at 66? Hah.

 

[mwsapphire]

I think we all recognize that these rankings are bogus. But if DO schools making the list means more people recognize we're "real doctors" I'll take it as a win.

For some reason I didn't realize you were a DO student !( I think you said something about the USMLE that made me think you were an MD student)

 

[mwsapphire]

Have the 100+ MD schools that have never been high ranked been churning out mediocre docs for the past few decades ???

 

[efle]

For some reason I didn't realize you were a DO student !( I think you said something about the USMLE that made me think you were an MD student)

DO students have to take both COMLEX and USMLE if they want to try matching for the same residencies that MD students do

 

[WaterIsGood]

DO students have to take both COMLEX and USMLE if they want to try matching for the same residencies that MD students do

False.


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[efle]

False.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

How so? I thought there was a group of DO res programs that accepted COMLEX and then the programs to which allo apply all require USMLE? So if you want to have both as an option you have to take both?

 

[ortnakas]

How so? I thought there was a group of DO res programs that accepted COMLEX and then the programs to which allo apply all require USMLE? So if you want to have both as an option you have to take both?

You don't HAVE to take both-- a lot of allo programs accept COMLEX-- but it's a good idea to keep your options open. Some allo programs do require it; for others it just lets them compare you more directly to the MD applicants since they might be less familiar with COMLEX.

 

[efle]

You don't HAVE to take both-- a lot of allo programs accept COMLEX-- but it's a good idea to keep your options open. Some allo programs do require it; for others it just lets them compare you more directly to the MD applicants since they might be less familiar with COMLEX.

Ah gotcha so it's like expected/recommended but not required kind of thing. TIL

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Ah gotcha so it's like expected/recommended but not required kind of thing. TIL

Yeah it is also field dependent as well. People match FM, Peds, and community IM all the time without USMLE. I've heard people matching OBGYN, EM, and even gas and rads without USMLE scores, but it is obviously less common.

 

[efle]

Yeah it is also field dependent as well. People match FM, Peds, and community IM all the time without USMLE. I've heard people matching OBGYN, EM, and even gas and rads without USMLE scores, but it is obviously less common.

I'd heard of this but I thought it was because they were DO-dedicated programs that took COMLEX. I was not aware there were places that took partially MD students with just USMLE, and partially DO students with just COMLEX

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I'd heard of this but I thought it was because they were DO-dedicated programs that took COMLEX. I was not aware there were places that took partially MD students with just USMLE, and partially DO students with just COMLEX

Yeah they are ACGME programs. USMLE is not a requirement for matching MD programs, but for some specialties it is basically an unwritten rule.

 

[MADD!!!]

KYCOM ranks No. 7 in 2018 Best Medical Schools - The DO

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools?int=a4d609

You know how I know this ranking is rigged... we only got #7 in rural primary care?!?!! C'mon man, that's our specialty.

 

[SLC]

Lol there is no way Baylor and UTSW are in the top 10 for primary care when most of their graduates go into specialty fields. And TCOM is far behind that at 66? Hah.

In USNWR primary care means clinical practice rather than research.

 

[DrBowtie]

In USNWR primary care means clinical practice rather than research.

Except it doesn't mean that at all. Look at the methodology. The main difference between the two is that the primary care ratings weight 30% of the rank of the percent of grads going into primary care which is a silly metric since they are among the least competitive fields.

 

[SLC]

Except it doesn't mean that at all. Look at the methodology. The main difference between the two is that the primary care ratings weight the percent of grads going into primary care which is a silly metric since they are among the least competitive fields.

Least competitive, but far and away the most needed.

 

[DrBowtie]

Least competitive, but far and away the most needed.

Your point being? You said the primary care rankings mean clinical practice which....it doesn't. It doesn't even remotely rank for the best primary care schools.

 

[SLC]

Your point being? You said the primary care rankings mean clinical practice which....it doesn't. It doesn't even remotely rank for the best primary care schools.

I said what I said because I was pretty sure that's what I read in the past about their methodology. maybe I misread, maybe I'm mixing it up with something else I read, or maybe the methodology has changed. I don't know, I'll admit that it's been a few years since I looked at USNWR

I definitely agree that the schools on that list aren't the top schools for graduating people into primary care.

 

[Goro]

There are a lot of ACGME PDs that are fine with COMLEX only. Yes, they tend to be in the less competitive specialties, and yes, the more competitive specialties want USMLE. Perversely, the latter PDs are more OK with only COMLEX II.

DO students have to take both COMLEX and USMLE if they want to try matching for the same residencies that MD students do

 

[Surgeongirl]

8 osteopathic medical schools donated money to US news world report hoping to save face with a BS ranking that they can show potential students to hide from their board scores, match lists, lack of research and shoddy clinical education.

yes ignorant comments are always welcomed.

 

[Surgeongirl]

There are a lot of ACGME PDs that are fine with COMLEX only. Yes, they tend to be in the less competitive specialties, and yes, the more competitive specialties want USMLE. Perversely, the latter PDs are more OK with only COMLEX II.

yes. hopefully with the upcoming merger that wont be the case but it always good to take both as a DO because you will be more competitive when applying.

 

[Dr. Death]

yes ignorant comments are always welcomed.

Yes pre-med please explain to me why a below average DO school is ranked #7 in who cares what

 

[Surgeongirl]

Yes pre-med please explain to me why a below average DO school is ranked #7 in who cares what

you mean in primary care, the field that is experiencing the greatest deficit in physicians right now? And you dont need to dismiss my comment just because I am a pre-med. Grow up.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

hopefully with the upcoming merger that wont be the case

Why would you hope for this? If anything we should get rid of COMLEX and just add an OMM portion that DOs take on the end of USMLE.

you mean in primary care, the field that is experiencing the greatest deficit in physicians right now? And you dont need to dismiss my comment just because I am a pre-med. Grow up.

It's not the primary care ranking. It's some random sub group.

 

[Surgeongirl]

Why would you hope for this? If anything we should get rid of COMLEX and just add an OMM portion that DOs take on the end of USMLE.



It's not the primary care ranking. It's some random sub group.

Yeah i do agree we should get rid of COMLEX but thats not what is currently happening. It would make more sense to have the MD students receive training on OMM so that they too can take that portion of the test and then it would just be an additional section to the USMLE like you say. And yes you are right the ranking were for random sub groups as well lol.

 

[efle]

It would make more sense to have the MD students receive training on OMM

The only issue I see with this is that MD schools like evidence based medicine

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Yeah i do agree we should get rid of COMLEX but thats not what is currently happening. It would make more sense to have the MD students receive training on OMM so that they too can take that portion of the test and then it would just be an additional section to the USMLE like you say. And yes you are right the ranking were for random sub groups as well lol.

Realistically I don't see that happening. While OMM is a part of the osteopathic philosophy, nobody in the MD world cares about it and it is very unlikely that any MD programs with adopt it into practice for any reason.

Honestly, with the merger I think COMLEX should be done away with. If DO schools wish to continue incorporating OMM into practice as a nod to their heritage that's great, but with a unified graduate medical education system we really should only have one set of board exams for everybody so that we can make apples to apples comparisons among applicants.