eLOR from a vet who doesn't use the computer...?

[bluesails]

Hi - I'm mostly a lurker, but I just finished my first year of undergrad at Dartmouth College and I'm on my last week of shadowing/working for an equine vet this summer (I go on to a wildlife rescue clinic next month!).

I decided to do a lot of research on eLORs early, and ran into a huge problem - the vet I'm working for (let's call him Doc M.) RARELY uses the computer for non-work related issues, mostly to download papers from AAEP, keep records, etc. Also, his wife (who runs their store for veterinary supplies) does majority of this for him, so he is generally just not a big fan of computers. He's pretty old, and has a hard time keeping up with how much the internet has changed.

Because he gets tons of interns and clinicians a year, I wanted to be really proactive and get a LOR as soon as possible - because he's really busy, and pretty old, he might literally forget about me.

However, the eLOR system doesn't let me do that easily - first, the process of creating an account, typing in all the forms, etc., would be generally difficult for him as he works long hours and spends almost no time in front of the computer. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I can only have his eLOR entered into the system at the time of the cycle I'm applying - which is three years from now, and I honestly think it will be very difficult for him to remember specific things to write about me.

I thought about getting the eLOR prompts early, asking him to write a letter, and then asking his wife to enter the information when I actually apply (she answers all his emails). But only he can look at the questions, through his eLOR account, right?

It's also complicated because he's in my home country in Southeast Asia (where I am in the summer) but I go to school in the US.

Anyone else run into problems with a non-tech-savvy vet?

Anyone have suggestions for what I can do? :/

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[jmo1012]

I'm almost 100% sure that the only way to have LORs for VMCAS is electronically so unfortunately unless he is willing to do it electronically or have someone submit his responses for him (which may or may not be allowed) i think youre kind of out of luck :-/

 

[laitmanvet]

I'm pretty sure there's a paper form, but you won't be able to enter this vet into the electronic system. You could have him fill out the paper form now and submit, to you, in a sealed envelope, with a recommendation letter. (Although I suppose you'll need multiples of everything as you'll have to send it to every different school.) And just save it for when you need it. When it comes time for you to submit your application just send it in ahead of the deadline...but don't enter it in the VMCAS system, they you'll have to submit it online. I submitted one vet's info via paper last yr and as long as it was there before the deadline, the schools accepted it.

Reading back on what I wrote sounds a little complicated. Maybe contact VMCAS and see what they think.

 

[jmo1012]

i'm pretty sure they're moving towards all electronic though-i swear when I met with Tony last year we talked about this.

regardless, maybe this will help you? http://www.aavmc.org/data/files/vmcas/aavmc school evaluation requirement chart_2012_final.pdf

"All VMCAS evaluations are to be completed electronically in the Evaluations section of the VMCAS application, with the exception of multipage committee letters and composite letters." from their website

 

[bluesails]

Hmm. Any chance I can find a way to get him the questions now? I think he'll be less daunted if he can have the prompts in front of him, start to write it, and then enter it all in afterwards.

If I created an account now, and made him create an account now, woudl these just be wiped after this cycle with no record if we don't submit anything? Just do it to look at what the prompts are?

 

[jmo1012]

everything gets wiped at the end of the cycle (next may or june i think). when are you planning on applying? if you're not applying for a few years, i'd hold off because they are constantly trying to improve and change the system. it would be a shame for them to change something (even though i don't think they will) major after all of that hard work. you might also shoot vmcas an email and ask their opinion

 

[equitate]

I think that getting a VMCAS-acceptable LOR so far in advance would be tricky and echo those who suggested you try to contact VMCAS about it.

I'm also going to throw something else out there, even though it might not be what you want to hear. If you just finished your first year of undergrad, you will hopefully have a lot of different vet opportunities to look forward to in the future. It might not be the worst thing to get someone else to write you a letter - who knows, you might even make a better connection and get a better letter out of another vet you work with in the upcoming years. Unless you had an amazing time with him and are 200% sure he would write you a kick-butt letter, I wouldn't worry too much about it right now. Just my opinion

 

[goldnretrivrgrl]

I think that getting a VMCAS-acceptable LOR so far in advance would be tricky and echo those who suggested you try to contact VMCAS about it.

I'm also going to throw something else out there, even though it might not be what you want to hear. If you just finished your first year of undergrad, you will hopefully have a lot of different vet opportunities to look forward to in the future. It might not be the worst thing to get someone else to write you a letter - who knows, you might even make a better connection and get a better letter out of another vet you work with in the upcoming years. Unless you had an amazing time with him and are 200% sure he would write you a kick-butt letter, I wouldn't worry too much about it right now. Just my opinion

I agree. It seems like a ton of work to get him to write one for you now, especially since I thought I read that you won't be applying for 3(?) years. I'm obviously not on an ad com but I'd be interested in a more recent quality experience, not a letter that's a few years old

 

[Minnerbelle]

I agree. It seems like a ton of work to get him to write one for you now, especially since I thought I read that you won't be applying for 3(?) years. I'm obviously not on an ad com but I'd be interested in a more recent quality experience, not a letter that's a few years old

I disagree with this a little bit. I accumulated all my LORs over the course of 6 years. When I was leaving a place and knew I wouldn't be able to come back, I asked for a letter to be written and asked them to hold on to it. I had the pre-health committee at my UG hold on to them for me for safekeeping as well. This way, my evaluators could write while my work ethic, attitude, etc... were still fresh on their minds. I stayed in touch with all of these people throughout, so when time finally came, they had that original letter (written just as if I'd been working with them until the day before) as well as my growth since then. That way, the people sending in eLORs for me could write very strong letters even if I hadn't worked directly with them in years. Of course I had letters that were more recent too, but I thought it was also nice to have letters from people who have known me for a long time.

 

[libster06]

because he's really busy, and pretty old, he might literally forget about me.

I don't think I would ask someone who may literally forget who I am in a year or two to write my LOR. I would want someone who knew me and could recall things about me, at least within a year or two after having worked for them. It doesn't seem like he'd be the kind of person to put a lot of thought into a letter of recommendation (given that he's too busy/old/anti-computer). Everyone is busy, but the people I got to write my letters had a vested interest in what I was doing and I had established a great relationship with them. Since you just finished your first year, I wouldn't break my back getting an LOR from this doctor and focus on building relationships and experience with other veterinarians, professors and advisors (or whoever) and use those.

 

[vacavet]

I don't think I would ask someone who may literally forget who I am in a year or two to write my LOR. I would want someone who knew me and could recall things about me, at least within a year or two after having worked for them. It doesn't seem like he'd be the kind of person to put a lot of thought into a letter of recommendation (given that he's too busy/old/anti-computer). Everyone is busy, but the people I got to write my letters had a vested interest in what I was doing and I had established a great relationship with them. Since you just finished your first year, I wouldn't break my back getting an LOR from this doctor and focus on building relationships and experience with other veterinarians, professors and advisors (or whoever) and use those.

Completely agree. One of the most vital things to having good eLORs is having people you have a relationship with who have a vested interest in you. You've got tons of time to make those connections. And I can say its possible to get the eLORs to work with a vet who is challenged with a computer. It just takes a little bit more effort and often times talkin to them and their staff to make sure they stay on top of it.

 

[VMCAS001]

Hey guys.. you all have very valid points regarding evaluators, and this is really a very sticky situation. At the base of it all is the fact that veterinary schools are making the switch to electronic only evaluations. In 2008, the AAVMC Board of Directors approve a policy that VMCAS only accept electronic evaluations, and since then, VMCAS has been slowly, but surely moving in that direction.

So, a couple of points to consider:

1) There are a total of 33 veterinary schools in the VMCAS system, and they all have their own requirements for evaluations. Make sure you are aware of the requirements for the school(s) you're applying to. This is why VMCAS allows you to register up to six (6) evaluations -- to make sure you can meet all the varying requirements.

2) There are some veterinary schools that simply will not accept paper. Period. So if you have a paper evaluation submitted, and you're applying to one of those schools that don't accept it, you will not meet the evaluation requirements for that school -- thus potentially tanking your chances.

3) VMCAS too has requirements, one of which is that VMCAS will not submit your application to your schools until we've received at least three evaluations. A good rule of thumb is to have at least three electronic to get your application submitted to your schools.

4) VMCAS does have a "go around" for paper evaluations, however, it's not easy to get approval from us. Simply put, a request for a paper evaluation due to a "preference" by your evaluator will likely not be approved. Remember, the electronic evaluation system asks specific questions that the vet schools want answers too, besides the letter.

5) Finally... please beware of postings on SDN by the uninformed. I've personally dealt with a number of applicants who did not get into vet schools due to information they got here on SDN. PLEASE consider getting your information from the source by e-mailing VMCAS directly ([email protected]) or calling the hotline: 202-682-0750... OR.. you can reach me directly: [email protected]. There's also the VMCAS 2012 forum which is monitored by VMCAS staff: http://vmcas2012.myfreeforum.org/.

Hope this is helpful!