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Hey there @gamerEMdoc , yet another SLOE question... :)
DO student, step1 upper 230's, level 1 was 61x. My home rotation is a newer program and my away is at a newer California AOA-turned-ACGME program, both before applications are viewed. I landed an older, historically ACGME away but is likely to drop due to affiliation agreement issues...ugh.
I've heard that ACGME programs want to see SLOEs from other (historically allopathic) ACGME programs.
Do you think having SLOEs from only osteopathic rotations will hinder my success in the match? Should I try to reach out to other programs?
I realize this is probably an opinion question but regardless I think I need reassurance in either option. TYIA
 
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gamerEMdoc

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Hey there @gamerEMdoc , yet another SLOE question... :)
DO student, step1 upper 230's, level 1 was 61x. My home rotation is a newer program and my away is at a newer California AOA-turned-ACGME program, both before applications are viewed. I landed an older, historically ACGME away but is likely to drop due to affiliation agreement issues...ugh.
I've heard that ACGME programs want to see SLOEs from other (historically allopathic) ACGME programs.
Do you think having SLOEs from only osteopathic rotations will hinder my success in the match? Should I try to reach out to other programs?
I realize this is probably an opinion question but regardless I think I need reassurance in either option. TYIA
All programs are ACGME at this point. Some are new, some are old, but at this point, they are all acgme programs. PDs who discriminate based on a program that used to be a DO program are going to discriminate against you for being a DO anyways. So its a moot point. I don't think it'll matter much.
 
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Toxin066

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So I read back about 15 pages through the Gospel of @gamerEMdoc just to be sure this hadn't been answered, but I was wondering if I could get a bit of guidance.

Consensus seems to be an October rotation is totally cool. My situation is that I've got an away at my number 1 program in October from 10/14 to 11/8. That late in the season, is it worth asking for a SLOE? I SHOULD have 2 letters from my July and August rotations. A letter from the #1 would look great, but my main goal with the clerkship is to not look like an idiot to max out my odds of matching.

In other news, whatcha playing these days, doc?
 
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Hello everyone, I have a couple questions. Based on my current rotation schedule, it looks like I'm only going to have one SLOE by Sept 15. I have my second rotation scheduled to end 09/22 and hopefully they'll upload their SLOE by the time MSPE gets released Oct 1st.

Is it going to hurt me if I only have one SLOE by Sept 15th?

How about if my second SLOE doesn't get uploaded by Oct 1st?

Also by sept 15th, I'm only going to have 1 SLOE and 1 non-EM LOR. I heard most programs require 3 Letters to be complete. Is that another thing that will hinder me?
 
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Listen2Savage

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Hello everyone, I have a couple questions. Based on my current rotation schedule, it looks like I'm only going to have one SLOE by Sept 15. I have my second rotation scheduled to end 09/22 and hopefully they'll upload their SLOE by the time MSPE gets released Oct 1st.

Is it going to hurt me if I only have one SLOE by Sept 15th?

How about if my second SLOE doesn't get uploaded by Oct 1st?

Also by sept 15th, I'm only going to have 1 SLOE and 1 non-EM LOR. I heard most programs require 3 Letters to be complete. Is that another thing that will hinder me?
I think this has been answered a couple of times

majority of programs practice 1 SLOE to interview, 2 to rank
 
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Hello everyone, I have a couple questions. Based on my current rotation schedule, it looks like I'm only going to have one SLOE by Sept 15. I have my second rotation scheduled to end 09/22 and hopefully they'll upload their SLOE by the time MSPE gets released Oct 1st.

Is it going to hurt me if I only have one SLOE by Sept 15th?

How about if my second SLOE doesn't get uploaded by Oct 1st?

Also by sept 15th, I'm only going to have 1 SLOE and 1 non-EM LOR. I heard most programs require 3 Letters to be complete. Is that another thing that will hinder me?
Shouldn't hurt you. Majority of interviews don't come out until after ACEP (mid Oct) at the earliest. And the majority of programs will extend an interview based on one SLOE.
 
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I think this has been answered a couple of times

majority of programs practice 1 SLOE to interview, 2 to rank
I wish I knew the exact data on this. The one study on this said:

"80% require only one EM rotation to grant an interview and none require more than two; 95% of programs will accept two SLOEs for both application and rank list placement. "

What the study doesn't tell you is, what percentage of programs will rank based on one SLOE. I'm sure there are many, although its probably not a hard and fast rule. But if 80% will interview off one SLOE, and its a great SLOE and the person has a great interview, I find it hard to believe the program would not rank the candidate. Would it hurt their application? Sure, but I doubt they wouldn't be ranked.

That being said, get 2 SLOEs. That's a no brainier. Get one by Sept 15 if possible. Get a second by mid-interview season if possible. If you can do this, you have a complete application at the vast majority of programs.
 

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Hello gamerEMdoc,

I'm starting my first EM rotation (home rotation) as an MS4 next week, then I'll be doing two aways after that.

Which one book or resource do you recommend I read as an introduction to EM during my first rotation? I'm just looking for one resource as a backbone that's appropriate for the MS4 level; and something I can reasonably get through in my first four week clerkship.

My clerkship recommends "An Introduction to Clinical Emergency Medicine" by S.V. Madavehan. But that was published in 2012 and it's 900 pages; I would gladly read it if it's recommended by faculty though. My clerkship also recommends Flipped EM Classroom The Flipped EM Classroom. What are your thoughts on skipping the textbooks and going with that?

I'm also planning to supplement with podcasts like EM Basic and the EMRA pocket guides.

Thank you! :)
 
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Hello gamerEMdoc,

I'm starting my first EM rotation (home rotation) as an MS4 next week, then I'll be doing two aways after that.

Which one book or resource do you recommend I read as an introduction to EM during my first rotation? I'm just looking for one resource as a backbone that's appropriate for the MS4 level; and something I can reasonably get through in my first four week clerkship.

My clerkship recommends "An Introduction to Clinical Emergency Medicine" by S.V. Madavehan. But that was published in 2012 and it's 900 pages; I would gladly read it if it's recommended by faculty though. My clerkship also recommends Flipped EM Classroom The Flipped EM Classroom. What are your thoughts on skipping the textbooks and going with that?

I'm also planning to supplement with podcasts like EM Basic and the EMRA pocket guides.

Thank you! :)
I don’t think you’re going to have time on a four week clerkship to read the textbook, do the flipped eM classroom, plus supplement with other things.

Id suggest you pick one primary doable source. If you want an easy to read text filled with pearls that can be read quickly, i like em secrets just because its a quickly read review book.

If you want a more comprehensive approach to specific chief complaints, then the CDEM curriculum or the flipped em site are both free resources walking you through the approach and ddx for many common complaints.

I just would be careful not to try to bite off more than you can chew.
 
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Hi gamerEMdoc,

I'm not sure if this question has already been asked but as a rising M2 interested in EM, I want to ask you for your thoughts about the current discussions on changing Step 1 and possibly Step 2 CK to P/F scoring? If this were to be implemented, what effect do you think it would have on the EM application process, especially for DO students who wouldn't have a numerical USMLE score to be directly compared with their MD counterparts? I know you have said many times that SLOEs are king when applying EM, so would P/F USMLE scoring significantly change things in your opinion?

Thanks!!
 
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Shouldn't hurt you. Majority of interviews don't come out until after ACEP (mid Oct) at the earliest. And the majority of programs will extend an interview based on one SLOE.
That sounds very reassuring, thanks!

So just to confirm, programs send out interviews without a complete application? I ask because a complete application at most programs requires 3 LORs and I likely wont have 3 before mid Oct.
 
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That sounds very reassuring, thanks!

So just to confirm, programs send out interviews without a complete application? I ask because a complete application at most programs requires 3 LORs and I likely wont have 3 before mid Oct.
According to PD surveys, the vast majority do.
 
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Hi gamerEMdoc,

I'm not sure if this question has already been asked but as a rising M2 interested in EM, I want to ask you for your thoughts about the current discussions on changing Step 1 and possibly Step 2 CK to P/F scoring? If this were to be implemented, what effect do you think it would have on the EM application process, especially for DO students who wouldn't have a numerical USMLE score to be directly compared with their MD counterparts? I know you have said many times that SLOEs are king when applying EM, so would P/F USMLE scoring significantly change things in your opinion?

Thanks!!
It will effect rotations I'd imagine. Because SLOEs are the most important thing with getting interviews, but there are no SLOEs when applying for rotation. So places look at your CV and scores and make a gut decision to allow for rotation. I'm not sure how programs will do that as easily without board scores.

I definitely would support the idea of a P/F board system, though I really wonder how that would change Medicine entirely. So many specialties use board scores as their means of entry into their competitive field. I'm not sure how a field like Ortho or Derm would adapt and select people if they didn't have rigid score cutoffs.
 

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It will effect rotations I'd imagine. Because SLOEs are the most important thing with getting interviews, but there are no SLOEs when applying for rotation. So places look at your CV and scores and make a gut decision to allow for rotation. I'm not sure how programs will do that as easily without board scores.

I definitely would support the idea of a P/F board system, though I really wonder how that would change Medicine entirely. So many specialties use board scores as their means of entry into their competitive field. I'm not sure how a field like Ortho or Derm would adapt and select people if they didn't have rigid score cutoffs.
On that thread, what do you think is driving programs to put so much weight in USMLE scores? Maybe the increasing number of applications per student? Increasing number of US grads? Advent of P/F medical schools?

Maybe I’m talking to the wrong people, but the attendings I know all say the boards were very low stakes even 10ish years ago. Study a little, take a practice test, try not to bomb.
 

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I am about to start an away rotation that offers an interview during the rotation. Is it necessary to pack a suit, or is the interview during the rotation less formal?
 
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I am about to start an away rotation that offers an interview during the rotation. Is it necessary to pack a suit, or is the interview during the rotation less formal?
I'd probably pack a suit just in case, or ask the program coordinator ahead of time.
 
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On that thread, what do you think is driving programs to put so much weight in USMLE scores? Maybe the increasing number of applications per student? Increasing number of US grads? Advent of P/F medical schools?

Maybe I’m talking to the wrong people, but the attendings I know all say the boards were very low stakes even 10ish years ago. Study a little, take a practice test, try not to bomb.

There's no other objective measure to try to compare students against one another across multiple schools. For EM, the SLOE tries to do that, and that's why in EM, board scores have been relatively devalued compared to other specialties.
 

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Hi gamer! I am a 4th year DO student about to start my first EM subi on Monday. Thus far, my scores are slightly above average (230s), but so far my clinical grades haven't been all that impressive. Only passes on clinical grades, with minimal generic and vague, but positive comments on evals. I have 3 subi rotations at well established ACGME EM residencies coming up.

My question is, if my SLOEs turn out poor as well, at what point should I start considering applying to a backup specialty in addition to EM? Or how negative do SLOEs have to be that I should start considering applying to a backup specialty? If I have just average SLOEs, what are my chances like?

Thanks.
 
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Hi gamer! I am a 4th year DO student about to start my first EM subi on Monday. Thus far, my scores are slightly above average (230s), but so far my clinical grades haven't been all that impressive. Only passes on clinical grades, with minimal generic and vague, but positive comments on evals. I have 3 subi rotations at well established ACGME EM residencies coming up.

My question is, if my SLOEs turn out poor as well, at what point should I start considering applying to a backup specialty in addition to EM? Or how negative do SLOEs have to be that I should start considering applying to a backup specialty? If I have just average SLOEs, what are my chances like?

Thanks.
Average SLOEs will net you a residency almost all the time. Some of your invites may come a little later than the first wave of invites, but all in all, you should easily match with middle 1/3 (average) sloes. The match rate for EM for US MD grads is quite high, in the 2018 data it was 92%. It was even higher for those who were only ranking one specialty. For DOs, the match rate is lower (82%) but still not bad. So as long as you aren't in the bottom 10-15% of candidates, you should theoretically match. Will you match at the program of your choice? A "prestigious" place? Maybe not. But you should match.

When do your SLOEs mean you won't match? Generally more than one low 1/3 SLOEs really really hurt many candidates chances, or a single DO NOT RANK sloe, or a SLOE with really damning comments. Can you still match with any of these? You can, but it makes it very very difficult to do so.
 
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stemi8

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Average SLOEs will net you a residency almost all the time. Some of your invites may come a little later than the first wave of invites, but all in all, you should easily match with middle 1/3 (average) sloes. The match rate for EM for US MD grads is quite high, in the 2018 data it was 92%. It was even higher for those who were only ranking one specialty. For DOs, the match rate is lower (82%) but still not bad. So as long as you aren't in the bottom 10-15% of candidates, you should theoretically match. Will you match at the program of your choice? A "prestigious" place? Maybe not. But you should match.

When do your SLOEs mean you won't match? Generally more than one low 1/3 SLOEs really really hurt many candidates chances, or a single DO NOT RANK sloe, or a SLOE with really damning comments. Can you still match with any of these? You can, but it makes it very very difficult to do so.
Thanks for reply Gamer! And sorry for the multiple posts. Can you comment on what are some things that have caused people to land on the "do not rank" box on the SLOE? Or maybe some general characteristics of people who receive multiple bottom 1/3 SLOEs?

Thanks again!
 

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@gamerEMdoc Do community programs tend to view a lot of research in an application as a bad thing? I’ve been pretty involved in EM research since the beginning of med school and have genuinely enjoyed it (plus developed some valuable skills); however, I do not want an academic career with research as my main focus. My concern is that community programs will see my application that screams research and think I’m just applying to them randomly. What are your thoughts on this?
 
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Every program needs research. Some will focus on how much output they have, but every residency has to have scholarly activity. So I don’t think you’ll see any program look down on your application because of the research. It’s just more that some programs may see it as a big positive, and others may be more indifferent to it. But I don’t think anyone would think less of a candidate because they did a lot of research.
 
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xcrunner01

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Hi @gamerEMdoc, I am a 4th year MD/PhD student newly interested in EM. Mostly honors 3rd year grades, >240 step 1. I will be able to get one SLOE from my home EM SubI, and 1-2 additional EM letters from my school's tox, ultrasound, and peds EM rotations in addition to my PI mentor's letter from my PhD. However, I unfortunately won't be able to do any away rotations to get another SLOE. How much will this hurt my application? I'm unsure of how worried I should be as away rotations seem almost required in EM. Current plan is to apply to ~40 programs, obviously avoiding programs that require 2 SLOEs. Is this a reasonable plan?
 

The Knife & Gun Club

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Hi @gamerEMdoc, I am a 4th year MD/PhD student newly interested in EM. Mostly honors 3rd year grades, >240 step 1. I will be able to get one SLOE from my home EM SubI, and 1-2 additional EM letters from my school's tox, ultrasound, and peds EM rotations in addition to my PI mentor's letter from my PhD. However, I unfortunately won't be able to do any away rotations to get another SLOE. How much will this hurt my application? I'm unsure of how worried I should be as away rotations seem almost required in EM. Current plan is to apply to ~40 programs, obviously avoiding programs that require 2 SLOEs. Is this a reasonable plan?
Obviously I’m not gamer but just curious, why no aways? Time/credit constraints due to the PhD?
 

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So I read back about 15 pages through the Gospel of @gamerEMdoc just to be sure this hadn't been answered, but I was wondering if I could get a bit of guidance.

Consensus seems to be an October rotation is totally cool. My situation is that I've got an away at my number 1 program in October from 10/14 to 11/8. That late in the season, is it worth asking for a SLOE? I SHOULD have 2 letters from my July and August rotations. A letter from the #1 would look great, but my main goal with the clerkship is to not look like an idiot to max out my odds of matching.

In other news, whatcha playing these days, doc?
There is no harm in asking for it. If its good it can only help. If its bad don't send it out.
 

xcrunner01

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Obviously I’m not gamer but just curious, why no aways? Time/credit constraints due to the PhD?
Yep exactly, time constraints due to finishing up clinical requirements. Most MD/PhDs at my school enter back into clinical rotations off-cycle depending on what time of year they defend their PhD. I obviously appreciate this flexibility but it does create a bit of a time crunch during 4th year trying to get everything done!
 
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Yep exactly, time constraints due to finishing up clinical requirements. Most MD/PhDs at my school enter back into clinical rotations off-cycle depending on what time of year they defend their PhD. I obviously appreciate this flexibility but it does create a bit of a time crunch during 4th year trying to get everything done!
I doubt it will hinder you. Every candidate is different. No rules of applying apply to 100% of people. There is no cookie cutter application that has to be followed, just generalizations that are true for most candidates. So while "needs 2 SLOEs" is general advice for 98% of applicants, you have to realize that there are special situations. And if your one SLOE is a good one, and you have great grades, good board scores, and your research/PhD background, I highly doubt many programs will choose not to rank you because you weren't able to do an away while finishing your PhD.
 
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Can a <10% SVI sink an application (middle 1/3 SLOEs) with otherwise no red flags?
I believe the majority of programs don't even look at the SVI. If it's a "low" score, it's been discussed on residency match media (ALIEM videos, podcasts, etc) that PD's will sometimes take a look at the video - in this case, though, I think it's just a matter of making sure you're not an odd person. If you don't get an interview from an institution, I would wager that is not going to be based solely on the SVI, 9.9 times/10.

That being said, I know some of the programs are actually participating in the research behind using the SVI. To what degree and how this affects the application of future residents, I don't know - some of the applicants from my year mentioned the SVI research being brought up in their interviews. The questions they got were more along the lines of "what do you think of the SVI as an interview tool".

Hope that helps!
-current EM intern
 

lostdoc92

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hey gamerEMdoc! I had a few questions about this cycle...

So my COMLEX scores are 518/599 and USMLE is 230/227 so I was concerned that the 227 was too low for step 2 and if so how that would affect my application. As in, would I get screened out, or is it just something I'll have to explain at interviews and that's the end of it? Also if I should change my applying strategy due to it (I'm pretty much applying along the entire east coast. Should I venture out west? I'd rather not if I don't have to.)

Also, I believe my first SLOE was a top 1/3 SLOE but I think my second SLOE is going to be middle 1/3 just because there's so many students I feel like its harder to stand out. Does going from a top 1/3 to a middle 1/3 make that much of a difference or does admin understand that there are many contributing factors that determine what a SLOE ends up looking like? Thank you for all your help!
 
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Hello gamerEMdoc, do you count the “alternative” SLOE for non-EM residency faculty, as counting as one of the two required SLOEs?

My school does not have a home residency but all of our students are required to rotate through our EM rotation.

I’m referring to this:

No. The alternate SLOEs are ok if you can't get anything else, but I don't think they are on par with an EM SLOE based on an EM rotation from a residency program. I have rarely found them helpful to be honest. SLOEs from non-residencies nearly always list every candidate as "top 10%". And the subspecialty SLOEs usually have little info to differentiate the candidate.

If you can't get 2 SLOEs and one of these has to take the place of one, so be it. But it wouldn't be my first choice.
 
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Can a <10% SVI sink an application (middle 1/3 SLOEs) with otherwise no red flags?
I don't care at all about the SVI score. I care way more about my own interview score. But I can't speak for all programs, and there is no PD survey data yet on what kind of importance the SVI holds. I'd imagine its very little, but that is all pure speculation.
 
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PD's will sometimes take a look at the video - in this case, though, I think it's just a matter of making sure you're not an odd person. If you don't get an interview from an institution, I would wager that is not going to be based solely on the SVI, 9.9 times/10.
Yep. I don't factor the SVI score at all into who should get an interview, it 100% doesn't matter to me. But I do watch one random video every application I look at to make sure the person appears professional and can at least try to answer the questions without appearing terrifyingly odd.
 
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I watched them only to put a montage video at our last residency conference together to basically mock the worst of the worst and cringiest answers/people all in one one minute video

Too bad we can't share them here, some of these videos were gold. Some people seemed genuinely...surprised they were filmed? lol

Pointless exercise, btw. I'm sure it's somehow a cash grab
 
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So my COMLEX scores are 518/599 and USMLE is 230/227 so I was concerned that the 227 was too low for step 2 and if so how that would affect my application. As in, would I get screened out, or is it just something I'll have to explain at interviews and that's the end of it?
Shouldn't be an issue. Your comlex scores are average or above average for candidates that apply to my program (east coast, former AOA now ACGME program). Your scores won't hold you back from matching in EM at all. This is a generalization, but I'd imagine places that are going to be really critical of your Step 2 probably aren't going to be super friendly to DOs anyway in many cases. I wouldn't sweat it about the boards.

Also if I should change my applying strategy due to it (I'm pretty much applying along the entire east coast. Should I venture out west? I'd rather not if I don't have to.)
No. The West Coast is far harder to match in than the East Coast. In fact, depending on your location/state, as a DO, you'll have tons of options of DO friendly residency programs on the East Coast, with only a few out west.

Also, I believe my first SLOE was a top 1/3 SLOE but I think my second SLOE is going to be middle 1/3 just because there's so many students I feel like its harder to stand out. Does going from a top 1/3 to a middle 1/3 make that much of a difference or does admin understand that there are many contributing factors that determine what a SLOE ends up looking like?
Yeah, you definitely consider the other factors going into the SLOE (location, their grading distribution, the number they write / how many students, etc). You have to take things in context. A top 1/3 SLOE at a competitive place is more impressive than a top 10% SLOE at some random non-residency site that writes one SLOE every other year.

Don't sweat it. Middle 1/3s match. Programs on average go 6.5 spots per ranked spot on their match list, and most rank about 10 per spot. Meaning if you have 10 spots, you'll rank 100, and likely match down to about 65. That's the national average for EM. Which means, on average, in any given year, programs are matching their last spot well into the middle part of their list, just to the top of the low 1/3 area. Any SLOE above a middle 1/3 will definitely help get your application looked at.
 
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I watched them only to put a montage video at our last residency conference together to basically mock the worst of the worst and cringiest answers/people all in one one minute video

Too bad we can't share them here, some of these videos were gold. Some people seemed genuinely...surprised they were filmed? lol

Pointless exercise, btw. I'm sure it's somehow a cash grab
I thought I was the only one to do this. Hahaha. Some of the videos I've watched are pure cringe comedy gold.
 
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Sterling_Archer

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No. The alternate SLOEs are ok if you can't get anything else, but I don't think they are on par with an EM SLOE based on an EM rotation from a residency program. I have rarely found them helpful to be honest. SLOEs from non-residencies nearly always list every candidate as "top 10%". And the subspecialty SLOEs usually have little info to differentiate the candidate.

If you can't get 2 SLOEs and one of these has to take the place of one, so be it. But it wouldn't be my first choice.
What about SLOEs from a residency that just started this year (associated with an otherwise reputable university)?

Edit: I will have two SLOEs from well-established programs as well, but the second will probably be uploaded sometime in November.
 
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gamerEMdoc

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What about SLOEs from a residency that just started this year (associated with an otherwise reputable university)?

Edit: I will have two SLOEs from well-established programs as well, but the second will probably be uploaded sometime in November.
Totally fine. The key to a SLOE being effective is that they actually have a pool of students to rank among one another (as opposed to 1-2 EM interested students rotating at some random non-academic ED). If a place isn't a residency, but still has 15 EM interested students that rotate there a year, they can write an effective SLOE. I've just not seen one of those yet. The other issue is, the most important question on the SLOE is where do you plan on ranking this student on your rank list. No matter how new or old a program is, they will be ranking students in the match, so their input her is valid.
 

Sterling_Archer

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Totally fine. The key to a SLOE being effective is that they actually have a pool of students to rank among one another (as opposed to 1-2 EM interested students rotating at some random non-academic ED). If a place isn't a residency, but still has 15 EM interested students that rotate there a year, they can write an effective SLOE. I've just not seen one of those yet. The other issue is, the most important question on the SLOE is where do you plan on ranking this student on your rank list. No matter how new or old a program is, they will be ranking students in the match, so their input her is valid.
Thanks! Would this also mean that a SLOE from such a program would carry more weight if it was a required rotation for all students (as the aforementioned program is) since there is a >100 student pool per year?
 

awkitkat

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hi! I’m currently at a rotation where an evaluation card is handed to the attending at end of each shift and turned in privately (so we only get verbal feedback). Is it too pushy to email the clerkship director/SLOE writer to ask for the cumulative feedback since we don’t get to see those evaluation cards?
 
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gamerEMdoc

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Thanks! Would this also mean that a SLOE from such a program would carry more weight if it was a required rotation for all students (as the aforementioned program is) since there is a >100 student pool per year?
The sloe ranks em interested students among eachother, not every student to rotate, so of those 100, if its a required rotation for the school, only a fraction of those will be EM interested and obtaining a sloe.
 
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gamerEMdoc

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hi! I’m currently at a rotation where an evaluation card is handed to the attending at end of each shift and turned in privately (so we only get verbal feedback). Is it too pushy to email the clerkship director/SLOE writer to ask for the cumulative feedback since we don’t get to see those evaluation cards?
I think you have every right to know a general idea what feedback you’re getting, though Im sure some places are better than others at giving good constructive feedback. I cant imagine any clerkship director being upset being asked to give feedback, though how brutally honest they are may vary. Its very easy to tell someone they will be outstanding and will get a good sloe. It’s a lot harder to tell someone they need a lot of work.

We use this very system. End of shift verbal feedback with a blinded evaluation card that gets compiled to help me when I write the evals and SLOEs. If a student asks towards the end of the rotation, Ill give them an idea of any trends I noticed in their comments, which is what I also tend to write in their evals as well, so its no secret. I wont tell them what their SLOE will be though.
 

lostdoc92

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thank you so much for the reassurance! one more question that I had forgotten: My last rotation (where I had some pretty amazing comments and I'm pretty sure was top 1/3): due to weird school rules about the SAEM test I ended up getting a B on my transcript. Does anybody really care about that in light of the SLOE? sorry for being neurotic lol. thanks again!
 

lostdoc92

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also, how many programs should someone in my position apply to? I was thinking 50-60 but I have heard that is too much. My school offers such little guidance its depressing.
 
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gamerEMdoc

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thank you so much for the reassurance! one more question that I had forgotten: My last rotation (where I had some pretty amazing comments and I'm pretty sure was top 1/3): due to weird school rules about the SAEM test I ended up getting a B on my transcript. Does anybody really care about that in light of the SLOE? sorry for being neurotic lol. thanks again!
The SLOE will put the grade into perspective. If they rated you as a Honors vs HP vs Pass kind of student internally, that info is on the SLOE (vs the schools grading scale, which varies by school to school). And it will say what percentage of students got each grade (Hon, HP, P) the previous year for context. So in addition to your SLOE ranking, the grading info on the SLOE has value. More so than a random letter grade with no context from the school itself.
 
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gamerEMdoc

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also, how many programs should someone in my position apply to? I was thinking 50-60 but I have heard that is too much. My school offers such little guidance its depressing.
It depends on your geographic situation tbh. I'd apply to every DO friendly place in state, and all the surrounding states, for both your medical school and your permanent address you list on ERAS. Then sprinkle in some other DO friendly programs (former AOA places) and any dream programs that you aren't geographically linked to. I'd say 40-50 or so seems reasonable, but if you are in a state with a ton of DO friendly programs, you could get by with less.