EM PD - Ask Me Anything

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Anyone here, especially of course @gamerEMdoc himself lol, think that doing an audition could translate indirectly to better prep for CK? I had my IM rotations suspended, and currently I am a little antsy about my preparation for taking CK in late June. I've been wondering how much clinical knowledge gained simply through being in the hospital that I am missing out on that could conceivably help for CK. If I push my exam to September/October the combination of my two auditions that I have lined up + extra time to do another pass of UW/AMBOSS may yield a better outcome. My Step 1 is a 243 and I already have an orphan SLOE written on my behalf from from third year (the attending has written SLOEs before for students that have matched). I suppose the rate-limiting question would be the balancing act between following the EM curriculum of a given audition + studying on my own for CK.

Any thoughts from anyone? I plan to take a NBME real soon which will of course help to decide.
 
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Doctor_Strange said:
Anyone here, especially of course @gamerEMdoc himself lol, think that doing an audition could translate indirectly to better prep for CK? I had my IM rotations suspended, and currently I am a little antsy about my preparation for taking CK in late June. I've been wondering how much clinical knowledge gained simply through being in the hospital that I am missing out on that could conceivably help for CK. If I push my exam to September/October the combination of my two auditions that I have lined up + extra time to do another pass of UW/AMBOSS may yield a better outcome. My Step 1 is a 243 and I already have an orphan SLOE written on my behalf from from third year (the attending has written SLOEs before for students that have matched). I suppose the rate-limiting question would be the balancing act between following the EM curriculum of a given audition + studying on my own for CK.

Any thoughts from anyone? I plan to take a NBME real soon which will of course help to decide.
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In my experience, test prep helps with test success. Clinical experience helps with clinical success. Rotating is unlikely to improve your score. And it'd be potentially more advantageous to have your (awesome) Step 2 score back in time for ERAS to go out. If I were you, I would not push the exam any further into the future.
 
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surely said:
In my experience, test prep helps with test success. Clinical experience helps with clinical success. Rotating is unlikely to improve your score. And it'd be potentially more advantageous to have your (awesome) Step 2 score back in time for ERAS to go out. If I were you, I would not push the exam any further into the future.
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Agreed!
 
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Now that Step 2 CS is going virtual, will PDs still expect this to be done before rank lists are due?
 
pillowsnice said:
Now that Step 2 CS is going virtual, will PDs still expect this to be done before rank lists are due?
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I don't know. Unfortunately, we've never had a global pandemic that completely changed interview season before. I mean if you can do it before rank lists are due, then I'd assume that PDs would expect it to be done. But there are no definitive answers about this season because we have never gone through anything like this season.
 
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gamerEMdoc said:
I don't know. Unfortunately, we've never had a global pandemic that completely changed interview season before.
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"Unfortunately" we haven't had a global pandemic?? Haha.

100% recommend getting it done before rank lists. Doing it online should be even less of a hassle, so I can't imagine PDs would be forgiving if you didn't carve out time to get it over with.
 
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surely said:
"Unfortunately" we haven't had a global pandemic?? Haha.

100% recommend getting it done before rank lists. Doing it online should be even less of a hassle, so I can't imagine PDs would be forgiving if you didn't carve out time to get it over with.
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Well, it is unfortunate to me because I don't like not having good solid answers. Hahaha.
 
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Do you have any insight on whether or not EM program directors will be placing an emphasis on how students spent their time during this shutdown, and the quality of any volunteer experiences, during interviews this season? I've been volunteering at a local food bank when spots have been available since I've had more free time, but other than that I haven't really seen any other opportunities. I've heard of other students though who have found spots volunteering in free clinics, swabbing patients, or babysitting for health care workers so I'm more concerned about this casting a bad light when it comes down to lack of local availability.
 
I am lucky and there are 2 residency programs affiliated with my medical school and I have a rotation scheduled with both. That would give me 2 SLOEs. Would that look bad to people interviewing me even though they are both through my school? I don't want to get blacklisted because I have more than 1 SLOE this year
 
My school (DO with no home program) has a 3 sub-I requirement for graduation and stated today that they are not changing that. Given the CORD/EMRA statements of not doing more than 2 how can applicants from schools like mine assure this isnt held against us becuase its required for graduation?
 
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Turducken21 said:
I am lucky and there are 2 residency programs affiliated with my medical school and I have a rotation scheduled with both. That would give me 2 SLOEs. Would that look bad to people interviewing me even though they are both through my school? I don't want to get blacklisted because I have more than 1 SLOE this year
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No I think that's fine.
 
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Dr.Bruh said:
My school (DO with no home program) has a 3 sub-I requirement for graduation and stated today that they are not changing that. Given the CORD/EMRA statements of not doing more than 2 how can applicants from schools like mine assure this isnt held against us becuase its required for graduation?
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Only get 2 SLOEs. No one will know about the 3rd then.
 
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gamerEMdoc said:
Only get 2 SLOEs. No one will know about the 3rd then.
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For once, I disagree with @gamerEMdoc !

The CORD/EMRA guidance exists to keep droves of students from doing more rotations than needed, to allow equitable distribution of away rotations among all students interested in EM (plus theoretically limiting student travel and spread of COVID). I anticipate fewer Away spots will be available this summer, as some institutions will have policies against accepting Away rotators. Since the school requirement of 3 sub-I's could be fulfilled through doing 2 EM rotations plus another sub-I in another specialty, that's the right move.
 
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Turducken21 said:
I am lucky and there are 2 residency programs affiliated with my medical school and I have a rotation scheduled with both. That would give me 2 SLOEs. Would that look bad to people interviewing me even though they are both through my school? I don't want to get blacklisted because I have more than 1 SLOE this year
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Genuinely baffled at how many people keep asking about this. Of all things, I feel like this might be a pleasant convo starter at best, not a hardcore way to evaluate applicants.
 
kaygeebee said:
Genuinely baffled at how many people keep asking about this. Of all things, I feel like this might be a pleasant convo starter at best, not a hardcore way to evaluate applicants.
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Hmm, not really sure what you are saying here. What do you think would be a pleasant convo starter at best?
 
surely said:
For once, I disagree with @gamerEMdoc !

The CORD/EMRA guidance exists to keep droves of students from doing more rotations than needed, to allow equitable distribution of away rotations among all students interested in EM (plus theoretically limiting student travel and spread of COVID). I anticipate fewer Away spots will be available this summer, as some institutions will have policies against accepting Away rotators. Since the school requirement of 3 sub-I's could be fulfilled through doing 2 EM rotations plus another sub-I in another specialty, that's the right move.
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Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought he said his school required 3 sub-I’s, I just assumed it had to be in their field of interest.
 
gamerEMdoc said:
Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought he said his school required 3 sub-I’s, I just assumed it had to be in their field of interest.
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At least at my school, sub-I's include your field of interest or any other sufficiently rigorous rotations. So a standard internal medicine floor month counts, sometimes anesthesiology counts, gyn/onc or L&D service counts, etc, but EMS or Tox or peds allergy outpatient wouldn't.
 
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rcordova said:
Hosting away students or only home students from affiliated med school?
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Aways. We dont really have a “home” program. We are affiliated with a DO school 3 hrs away that has affiliations with several programs that are closer to them. So if we limited to just their students, we’d only have a few. Many of our DO rotators don't really have a home program unfortunately. So we get people from all over the place that rotate.
 
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@gamerEMdoc hi I have a question... I’ll be a reapplication next year ..... I have below average COMLEX with level 1 failure... I passed step 2 and am currently studying for step 1... however I haven’t been able to find a position for this year and With everything going on a lot of hospitals have hiring freezes any recommendations?
 
Lossrx said:
@gamerEMdoc hi I have a question... I’ll be a reapplication next year ..... I have below average COMLEX with level 1 failure... I passed step 2 and am currently studying for step 1... however I haven’t been able to find a position for this year and With everything going on a lot of hospitals have hiring freezes any recommendations?
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Your best bet would be if some new program opened OR any residency in a field you could see your self doing (im, fp, etc) gets an unexpected opening for whatever reason. But outside of that, I don’t know that you’re going to have a lot of opportunities unfortunately.
 
gamerEMdoc said:
Your best bet would be if some new program opened OR any residency in a field you could see your self doing (im, fp, etc) gets an unexpected opening for whatever reason. But outside of that, I don’t know that you’re going to have a lot of opportunities unfortunately.
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Ah ok thank you
 
In light of the limitations on away rotations and in-person interviews as avenues for meeting and evaluating applicants, do you think your program or others will rely somewhat on their history with med schools to help with selection? By this I mean conversations like "Well, we've had a few residents from xyz med school in the past and they worked out well, so maybe we should look at their graduates?" or "I know the Dean of Students at Downhome State med school and she says this applicant is one of their best?"

I understand the match process has become more formalized and rigid over the years, so maybe some of this would be a violation of the rules. I just don't know what things are grey areas and what are bright lines.
 
ThreadStalker said:
In light of the limitations on away rotations and in-person interviews as avenues for meeting and evaluating applicants, do you think your program or others will rely somewhat on their history with med schools to help with selection? By this I mean conversations like "Well, we've had a few residents from xyz med school in the past and they worked out well, so maybe we should look at their graduates?" or "I know the Dean of Students at Downhome State med school and she says this applicant is one of their best?"

I understand the match process has become more formalized and rigid over the years, so maybe some of this would be a violation of the rules. I just don't know what things are grey areas and what are bright lines.
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Maybe. I would imagine if SLOEs are hard to come by, schools who don't overinflate their clinical grades with 90% honors, and those who actually provide objective data like class ranking quartiles may be leaned on more to try to get an idea who is a good student.
 
gamerEMdoc said:
Maybe. I would imagine if SLOEs are hard to come by, schools who don't overinflate their clinical grades with 90% honors, and those who actually provide objective data like class ranking quartiles may be leaned on more to try to get an idea who is a good student.
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****

my preclinical grades are horrible but my clinical grades are great. my class rank is poor
 
boolin_1 said:
****

my preclinical grades are horrible but my clinical grades are great. my class rank is poor
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I mean, most people don’t really care about pre-clinical grades. If your clinical grades are outstanding, I don’t think you’re gonna have anything to worry about, unless Your school literally gives everyone outstanding clinical grades. And also, this was said in contacts that if Someone can’t get sloes. If people have 2 SLOES, then that will make or break their application as usual.
 
@gamerEMdoc how much of disadvantage would it be to apply without a Step 2 score as a DO. I took step one and did average on it (low 230's) and my step 2 exam was just cancelled. I don't know if I can even find a new date within my dedicated study window anywhere in the US and taking it while back on rotations seems like a bad idea. Thoughts?
 
12jas said:
@gamerEMdoc how much of disadvantage would it be to apply without a Step 2 score as a DO. I took step one and did average on it (low 230's) and my step 2 exam was just cancelled. I don't know if I can even find a new date within my dedicated study window anywhere in the US and taking it while back on rotations seems like a bad idea. Thoughts?
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I think as long as you take step one, many programs will be OK with just that. And the ones that won’t be probably aren’t the most DO friendly anyway so it probably doesn’t matter. I wouldn't worry about it. MAYBE this is more an issue a few years from now when Step is p/f, but for right now I dont see taking step 2 to be a big deal for DO candidates tbh.
 
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gamerEMdoc said:
I think as long as you take step one, many programs will be OK with just that. And the ones that won’t be probably aren’t the most DO friendly anyway so it probably doesn’t matter. I wouldn't worry about it. MAYBE this is more an issue a few years from now when Step is p/f, but for right now I dont see taking step 2 to be a big deal for DO candidates tbh.
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I've heard that many PD's have little knowledge about COMLEX scores and generally don't care about them. In light of this, you don't think it benefits DO applicants to have a Step 2? I've always heard that DO's going into EM should have a good step 2 for this very reason, so hearing this from you came as a bit of a surprise.
 
MakeLifeHappen13 said:
I've heard that many PD's have little knowledge about COMLEX scores and generally don't care about them. In light of this, you don't think it benefits DO applicants to have a Step 2? I've always heard that DO's going into EM should have a good step 2 for this very reason, so hearing this from you came as a bit of a surprise.
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PDs know what a COMLEX score is. They prefer an even playing field, so comparing apples to apples (step to step) is nice. However, that being said, many programs don't require students to take Step 2. And honestly, the PDs that are the most adament about not looking at COMLEX scores are also probably not going to seriously consider you as a candidate even if you do take it, strictly because of being a DO. The programs that are pretty DO friendly and match DO residents, they aren't going to require you to have a Step 2 score.

So my point is, I highly doubt having a Step 2 score will open up doors at places that are already biased against you.

I do think having a step 2 score will increase in importance once step 1 becomes pass/fail though.
 
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I just wanted to post a link to this. I updated my essential tips for successfully looking good on your EM rotation in time for SLOE season. Here are my top 15 tips. I figured I'd just link to the twitter post instead of copying and pasting each one. Hope that helps! SLOE season is right around the corner.


 
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I am trying hard to get an EM rotation for next block but my core site coordinator is really dragging her ass. I have an away scheduled in July and I have no prior experience in the ED. I'm really nervous that my lack of experience will show and translate into a poor SLOE
 
boolin_1 said:
I am trying hard to get an EM rotation for next block but my core site coordinator is really dragging her ass. I have an away scheduled in July and I have no prior experience in the ED. I'm really nervous that my lack of experience will show and translate into a poor SLOE
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Well its looking like everyone is only going to be getting one, maybe two, EM rotations this year, so you will likely be in the same boat as everyone else in terms of your first EM rotation. Everyone is going to be relatively inexperienced with regards to the rotations where they get their 1 or 2 sloes.
 
Quick question. Looks like my first rotation in July will be an EM audition. But when I start I will literally have been out of the hospital with zero patient contact for 4 months. No doubt I’m gunna be rusty on my EM knowledge but also worried about just looking general “slower” bc I have no clue how quick I’ll be able to pick it back up after such a long time off. Any idea if programs will take this I to account? Really don’t want a mediocre sloe bc my school pulled us from the hospitals for 4 months and am expected to be intern level sharp right away lol
 
Just about every student from every medical school was pulled off rotation for months. When you start in July, you'll be starting with a group of other rusty students. The SLOE is meant to judge you against your peers. If you come out of the gate rusty, and so does everyone else, well then it shouldn't affect you. If you come out of the gate rusty and everyone else hits the ground running, then it will. Right now, for the most part everyone is on an even playing field with the COVID stuff.
 
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I hear some statement will be coming soon about away rotations, ER application limits, interviews, etc
 
I am couples matching so this year. If there is an application cap, I really hope it’s a soft cap
 
longtimelurker2015 said:
We just signed on to said statement as part of the board I sit on, can attest to it coming out soon. Will provide general guidance, but still will be a stressful and unusual time for applicants this year.
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Would you be able to give anymore details regarding this?
 
Turducken21 said:
Hmm, not really sure what you are saying here. What do you think would be a pleasant convo starter at best?
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LOL i'm sorry, i definitely quoted the wrong post! I was talking about COVID, sorry!
 
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Definitely feeling a bit of pressure as I have a July audition at my nearby program (not home institution) but they haven't let us know if they'll be allowing students back yet. Coupled with the fact that my step 2/level 2 were cancelled and I couldn't get anything sooner than August. very frustrating to be a DO student with limited options right now...
 
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