EM PD - Ask Me Anything

[gamerEMdoc]

@gamerEMdoc in your opinion what alternative sloes do you think will have “more weight” this year compared to prior years? You think it will be program dependent? Thanks.

I think the hierarchy remains unchanged. EM residency sloe is the most important by far. Then the alternate forms of sloes (Subspecialty, non-Residency, and now osloe). Then general LORs.

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[bravotwozero]

Did you get into EM second time

Yes I did.

 

[bicyclechief]

Just call, since it is time sensitive Use that as your excuse to call

Got ahold of them, they didn't seem to care too much that it was 1 business day late so that's reassuring! Didn't lose my away!

One more question, that I'm sure has already been asked, but how many LORs/SLOEs should I have? I was under the impression that we just need 1 SLOE but I've seen that we should have 3-4 with oSLOEs/typical LORs. Would an oSLOE from a family med doc, my home non-residencySLOE, my away residency SLOE, and one basic LOR be enough?

 

[AppleB]

Also have a question about SLOEs. Looking like I will have 1 SLOE and a virtual EM rotation. Possibly will also have another EM rotation late September which would give me another SLOE. Can I get an OSLOE from the virtual rotation? Worst case scenario is only having one SLOE with no other letters. Was unable to get any other rotations. How bad would that look to have only one SLOE? Coming from DO school with no home affiliation.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Got ahold of them, they didn't seem to care too much that it was 1 business day late so that's reassuring! Didn't lose my away!

One more question, that I'm sure has already been asked, but how many LORs/SLOEs should I have? I was under the impression that we just need 1 SLOE but I've seen that we should have 3-4 with oSLOEs/typical LORs. Would an oSLOE from a family med doc, my home non-residencySLOE, my away residency SLOE, and one basic LOR be enough?

you need 3 to 4 total letters, one should be a sloe, and ideally 2 others would be some combo of non-residency, subspecialty, or off service sloes. then a regular letter of recommendation can just round out the rest.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Also have a question about SLOEs. Looking like I will have 1 SLOE and a virtual EM rotation. Possibly will also have another EM rotation late September which would give me another SLOE. Can I get an OSLOE from the virtual rotation? Worst case scenario is only having one SLOE with no other letters. Was unable to get any other rotations. How bad would that look to have only one SLOE? Coming from DO school with no home affiliation.

you should only have one sloe. That was the recommendation. So I’m not sure why you would think that would look bad. You should have other letters of recommendation though. I doubt letters from virtual rotations make a lot of sense. When you say that you couldn’t get other rotations, do you mean you can’t get rotations in any other fields? How are you completing fourth year? You can get off service loves from pretty much any other rotation that’s in person. You are going to need at least three letters of recommendation. Only one Hass to be a traditional sloe.

 

[AppleB]

you should only have one sloe. That was the recommendation. So I’m not sure why you would think that would look bad. You should have other letters of recommendation though. I doubt letters from virtual rotations make a lot of sense. When you say that you couldn’t get other rotations, do you mean you can’t get rotations in any other fields? How are you completing fourth year? You can get off service loves from pretty much any other rotation that’s in person. You are going to need at least three letters of recommendation. Only one Hass to be a traditional sloe.

Thanks, I have been doing online rotations so far to fulfill requirements that my school has offered. I was not able to secure any off service rotations, and some of my earlier rotations were cancelled ( which forced me into online ones).

 

[Lossrx]

you should only have one sloe. That was the recommendation. So I’m not sure why you would think that would look bad. You should have other letters of recommendation though. I doubt letters from virtual rotations make a lot of sense. When you say that you couldn’t get other rotations, do you mean you can’t get rotations in any other fields? How are you completing fourth year? You can get off service loves from pretty much any other rotation that’s in person. You are going to need at least three letters of recommendation. Only one Hass to be a traditional sloe.

If we are reapplicants and are doing a TY do we just get letters from our attending and PD if we don’t have an EM program where we are at , as SLOEs are meant for students?

 

[EDCuddler]

Question here about getting letters from a community EM rotation. If we spent a lot of time with two different physicians, is it kosher to ask for a letter from both docs? I am just not sure if it is frowned upon to get two letters from one rotation. My thinking is that it might be better to have two letters, both from ER docs, than only getting one letter and having to get an OSLOE from a core rotation from third year. Thoughts?

 

[drjmd2be]

Will I really get penalized if I get a traditional over an o sloe? (Letter writer already completed it and I asked them to evaluate me on some of the things seen on the sloe with a global assessment). I’ve read/heard some sources that the o sloe will hold slightly more weight but that in this interesting cycle the traditional would still hold some weight as well —just not as preferred...

 

[gamerEMdoc]

If we are reapplicants and are doing a TY do we just get letters from our attending and PD if we don’t have an EM program where we are at , as SLOEs are meant for students?

Typically. You can ask prior sloe authors to reuoad old sloes, but the trouble with that is, if you didnt match its likely bc of one or two bad sloes to begin with, so you run the risk of guessing which sloe is a good one to reupload and guessing wrong.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Will I really get penalized if I get a traditional over an o sloe? (Letter writer already completed it and I asked them to evaluate me on some of the things seen on the sloe with a global assessment). I’ve read/heard some sources that the o sloe will hold slightly more weight but that in this interesting cycle the traditional would still hold some weight as well —just not as preferred...

Yeah this is how I see it being. Osloe preferred, but will only carry a little more weight.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Question here about getting letters from a community EM rotation. If we spent a lot of time with two different physicians, is it kosher to ask for a letter from both docs? I am just not sure if it is frowned upon to get two letters from one rotation. My thinking is that it might be better to have two letters, both from ER docs, than only getting one letter and having to get an OSLOE from a core rotation from third year. Thoughts?

You can. Ive seen students do it before. I mean there is nothing typical this year. I honestly think its basically one regular sloe then whatever you gotta do to get to 3-4 lors

 

[bicyclechief]

How much does a good step 2 score boost an application? For example, I got a bit below the average for last year's matched EM students at 228 but a step 2 score of 261. Does that reopen doors to some of the places that probably would have passed on me?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

How much does a good step 2 score boost an application? For example, I got a bit below the average for last year's matched EM students at 228 but a step 2 score of 261. Does that reopen doors to some of the places that probably would have passed on me?

Depends on your SlOE. Traditionally excellent sloes opened the most doors. For someone with more average sloes, higher boards may stratify you above the other middle of the road folks. But the sloes always trump boards.

No one knows how that changes this year with most people only having one. It’s all speculation.

 

[Enik]

Does anyone know (mainly GamerEMDoc) if the apps the apps that we submit on September 1st lets say will become automatically available to program to view without MSPE. Or, will the application only be available for program to review after October 21st. I heard a few people talking about this earlier this week and was utterly confused.

 

[Dr.Bruh]

Does anyone know (mainly GamerEMDoc) if the apps the apps that we submit on September 1st lets say will become automatically available to program to view without MSPE. Or, will the application only be available for program to review after October 21st. I heard a few people talking about this earlier this week and was utterly confused.

Only available after oct21. Any apps submitted before then will not be seen earlier and will still be marked as received oct21 even if you submitted on 9/1.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Does anyone know (mainly GamerEMDoc) if the apps the apps that we submit on September 1st lets say will become automatically available to program to view without MSPE. Or, will the application only be available for program to review after October 21st. I heard a few people talking about this earlier this week and was utterly confused.

Programs cant view anything about the apps, not even who applied, until Oct 21.

 

[camtheram1815]

@gamerEMdoc, question for you: for my letters I'll have one residency e-SLOE, and 2 o-SLOEs which will be uploaded before October 21st. Then I have a sub-specialty rotation (Peds EM) lined up during October (couldn't get it earlier with my schedule), so that s-SLOE will be uploaded in November.

Is having my 4th letter, the sub-specialty SLOE, coming in later going to be an issue?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

@gamerEMdoc, question for you: for my letters I'll have one residency e-SLOE, and 2 o-SLOEs which will be uploaded before October 21st. Then I have a sub-specialty rotation (Peds EM) lined up during October (couldn't get it earlier with my schedule), so that s-SLOE will be uploaded in November.

Is having my 4th letter, the sub-specialty SLOE, coming in later going to be an issue?

Not at all

 

[Doctor W]

Quick summary of my hx: IM PGY1 hoping to reapply to EM

Anyone have any idea when the majority of interviews will be sent out? Found out that all interns have to sign their PGY2 contracts in November. I'm really hoping that IVs are sent out within 4 wks of the ERAS deadline, as I'm gonna decide on whether or not to sign the contract based on the # of IVs. If they happen after mid-november, then I don't know if I've got the guts to start the process.

I don't think the school will be comfortable keeping my spot if I don't sign the contract because I found out that 2 of the prelim IM residents are hoping to reapply to the catagorical positions this coming ERAS.

God, I feel like this is gonna be the single most important decision of my life.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

No one has any idea. Traditionally it was by mid Oct a good bunch of "first round" of interviews went out, with maybe a 1/3 or more of interviews still able to be obtained in the following 3 months. The issue now is both the condensed nature of the app review cycle this year, combined with the unlikely event of tons of cancellations since all you have to do is zoom to the interview. I'm guessing most programs are going to want to have sent out at least a large chunk of their interviews by Nov 7th or so, but I don't know. None of us do. This is the first time ever for something like this. So its all a prediction.

 

[xxxwpxxx]

hey @gamerEMdoc for 3rd years who are completing their core rotations like IM, OBGYN, psych, etc, when we ask for a letter of rec from our preceptors should we have them fill out the OSLOE that CORD has even though the pdf says it's for the 2020-2021 application year or should we wait until next year? I was thinking that as we finish our rotations it would be easier for our preceptors to fill it out than to ask a year later?

 

[astronauticaldoc]

So I am following the CORD 1 SLOE/audition guidelines. It's my second day of shift, during orientation I come to find that the other 10+ students have at least 2 EM auditions lined up (non-subspecialty). So, now I'm thinking, either I was overly fearful to do more than 1 audition, and now I'm at a disadvantage, or the other 10+ students will be red flagged during application season. I'm using common sense, and realizing that the initial Covid fear was real, but now things "calming down" with less irrational fear, students feel more comfortable stepping outside of the CORD Guidelines box. This is just a hypothesis but I feel like many students are doing >1 audition, too many for programs to "control" and thusly the attempt to make things "fair" has failed. Thoughts?

 

[Dr.Bruh]

So I am following the CORD 1 SLOE/audition guidelines. It's my second day of shift, during orientation I come to find that the other 10+ students have at least 2 EM auditions lined up (non-subspecialty). So, now I'm thinking, either I was overly fearful to do more than 1 audition, and now I'm at a disadvantage, or the other 10+ students will be red flagged during application season. I'm using common sense, and realizing that the initial Covid fear was real, but now things "calming down" with less irrational fear, students feel more comfortable stepping outside of the CORD Guidelines box. This is just a hypothesis but I feel like many students are doing >1 audition, too many for programs to "control" and thusly the attempt to make things "fair" has failed. Thoughts?

Ask them when the second audition is. I know people on my audition that had another but it was like in December ie probably not taking someone’s spot. Having 2 between July-nov would raise eyebrows I think. Also some people taking a second audition are doing it at programs that are only taking specific student. For example UMKC is only taking outside students from KCUMB this year to rotate. So someone taking their second audition at UMKC isn’t really taking a spot from someone else bc UMKC wouldn’t take anybody else except from their school. I still think it’s risky and sounds like a total mess to explain in interviews so I’m just sticking with my one sloe and US sloe.

 

[astronauticaldoc]

Well, it's a bit mixed among the students, but overall, all are doing at least 2 EM non-specialty auditions. Most I've met did an audition prior to this one, so definitely before November. I also heard that there was a Zoom meeting that I missed, where the majority of the program directors said they'd red flag anyone with more than 1 audition. However, some program directors said they don't care. I dunno, I have a feeling most of the DO heavy programs don't care as much as the MD heavy programs.

 

[pillowsnice]

Do you feel that SLOE's may have slightly less emphasis this year over previous years? I'm going to guess that my SLOE along with the other letters will be fairly generic as it was difficult to really get to know faculty in just a few shifts.

 

[boolin_1]

how many programs are you guys applying to

 

[gamerEMdoc]

hey @gamerEMdoc for 3rd years who are completing their core rotations like IM, OBGYN, psych, etc, when we ask for a letter of rec from our preceptors should we have them fill out the OSLOE that CORD has even though the pdf says it's for the 2020-2021 application year or should we wait until next year? I was thinking that as we finish our rotations it would be easier for our preceptors to fill it out than to ask a year later?

I'd imagine next year will be back to normal to be honest. COVID may still be around, but I don't think rotations will be nearly as limited. So the need for the O-SLOE will unlikely be necessary. However, you could still choose to have them write one, just in case. It's probably better than getting a generic LOR anyways. I don't think it will be a problem if they use the 2020 form. It's unlikely to change in any major way, if at all, and your rotation was in 2020 anyway.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

So I am following the CORD 1 SLOE/audition guidelines. It's my second day of shift, during orientation I come to find that the other 10+ students have at least 2 EM auditions lined up (non-subspecialty). So, now I'm thinking, either I was overly fearful to do more than 1 audition, and now I'm at a disadvantage, or the other 10+ students will be red flagged during application season. I'm using common sense, and realizing that the initial Covid fear was real, but now things "calming down" with less irrational fear, students feel more comfortable stepping outside of the CORD Guidelines box. This is just a hypothesis but I feel like many students are doing >1 audition, too many for programs to "control" and thusly the attempt to make things "fair" has failed. Thoughts?

It shouldn't hurt you. The discussion I've seen about it online in the CORD forums came down to two schools of thought:

1. We should hold it against students for not following the guidelines
2. It's not the students fault. We shouldn't hold it against them, but we should just use the first SLOE to compare apples to apples and disregard further SLOEs

I haven't seen any PDs saying "I expect 2 SLOEs". So either way, I don't think someone doing only one rotation per the guidance of CORD will be hurt by it. Will many programs hold it against people that do two or more? I don't know. Probably not, because in general we are forgiving people. They may ask them about it in their interview, but I don't expect programs to universally blackball students for going against the guidelines.

But who knows. This is all speculation. We've never been through this.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Do you feel that SLOE's may have slightly less emphasis this year over previous years? I'm going to guess that my SLOE along with the other letters will be fairly generic as it was difficult to really get to know faculty in just a few shifts.

I think because of the expectation of 1 SLOE, there will be more of an emphasis on other LORs. The interview is always the second biggest predictor (other than SLOEs) of someones application success, and I'd imagine it will still be very important. However, who knows how virtual interviews change that. There's over 200 programs, there's no consensus on how each one ranks people or selects people for interviews, and we have never been in a situation like this before. So this is all speculation on my part. We just don't know.

 

[boolin_1]

If i have a question on something that is a touchy subject and looks like “I’m not a team player”, how do I go about asking this during the interview? It’s something that is important to me and I want to get this question across without sounding confrontational.

I would like to ask about mid level involvement in the ER, and whether residents are precepted by any NP’s/PA’s on any rotations throughout the curriculum.

 

[Doctor_Strange]

Hey for those interested there someone set up a Discord chat for EM applicants (few residents in there too): Join the Emergency Medicine 2020-201 Discord Server!

 

[Doctor_Strange]

If i have a question on something that is a touchy subject and looks like “I’m not a team player”, how do I go about asking this during the interview? It’s something that is important to me and I want to get this question across without sounding confrontational.

I would like to ask about mid level involvement in the ER, and whether residents are precepted by any NP’s/PA’s on any rotations throughout the curriculum.

It was disappointing when one of the EM faculty docs said to me to basically not ask any sensitive questions during your interview (he was giving me advice). He was like don't bring up anything negative it could hurt you. Now he gave me this advice a day after I talked to the APD of this program and inquired about the level of teaching provided by faculty since it is a new community program. She was a little irked by her tone over the phone, but frankly these are important qs to ask.

 

[astronauticaldoc]

Hey for those interested there someone set up a Discord chat for EM applicants (few residents in there too): Join the Emergency Medicine 2020-201 Discord Server!

Trying to save folks time, I wasted 3 mins creating an account to then discover M3 questions... not worth the time in my opinion.

 

[Doctor_Strange]

Trying to save folks time, I wasted 3 mins creating an account to then discover M3 questions... not worth the time in my opinion.

Only two M3 qs out of like 50+ messages just so others are aware so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Hey for those interested there someone set up a Discord chat for EM applicants (few residents in there too): Join the Emergency Medicine 2020-201 Discord Server!

Thats a great idea!

 

[gamerEMdoc]

If i have a question on something that is a touchy subject and looks like “I’m not a team player”, how do I go about asking this during the interview? It’s something that is important to me and I want to get this question across without sounding confrontational.

I would like to ask about mid level involvement in the ER, and whether residents are precepted by any NP’s/PA’s on any rotations throughout the curriculum.

Well, frankly I’d ask them. Programs that don’t have to be concerned about answering that question won’t be offended. Programs that do, MIGHT be. But if that’s a make or break point for you, then its probably not that big of a deal that you offend some place that has MLPs supervising residents.

I mean I don’t think this is a common practice. I don’t know how it could be. Maybe I’m wrong.

Regardless, I think it is a fair question if you are concerned about it.

 

[Pokedoc]

What rotations do you see when looking at applications? Are they only through a certain point in the 4th year as that is all that is included with the MSPE, or do you see the rotations that have not been completed yet as well? The reason I ask is that I have been offered an audition later in the academic year after applications will have been sent out, and my school administration thinks that I should go for it even though I have already done one audition elsewhere. I'm letting the faculty at the program know that I've already done an audition, but that I would still like to take part in a rotation with their program if they will have me. My only concern is obviously with the CORD recommendations in place, but if it can't even be seen on my app that I'll be doing that rotation later in the year then it really isn't a problem. Feels like I'm sneaking, which I hate, but I'm not taking a spot from a student that needs a SLOE with it being that late in the year so my admin don't think it'll be an issue either way come interview season.

 

[Mr. D.O.five]

So I'll have my EM residency SLOE in before Oct 21, but my non-residency SLOE won't be in until at least late Oct/early Nov as that rotation ends late Oct. Would I still be fine submitting an app with 1 residency SLOE while updating my app with the rest of the LORs/SLOEs as they get received? I'm looking at 3 in total, but hoping to get 4 by Mid Nov. Just worried that I might get screened out for not having enough LORs/SLOEs

 

[gamerEMdoc]

So I'll have my EM residency SLOE in before Oct 21, but my non-residency SLOE won't be in until at least late Oct/early Nov as that rotation ends late Oct. Would I still be fine submitting an app with 1 residency SLOE while updating my app with the rest of the LORs/SLOEs as they get received? I'm looking at 3 in total, but hoping to get 4 by Mid Nov. Just worried that I might get screened out for not having enough LORs/SLOEs

LOR requirements and expectations will be lower this year I'd imagine. I doubt it will be an issue.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

What rotations do you see when looking at applications? Are they only through a certain point in the 4th year as that is all that is included with the MSPE, or do you see the rotations that have not been completed yet as well? The reason I ask is that I have been offered an audition later in the academic year after applications will have been sent out, and my school administration thinks that I should go for it even though I have already done one audition elsewhere. I'm letting the faculty at the program know that I've already done an audition, but that I would still like to take part in a rotation with their program if they will have me. My only concern is obviously with the CORD recommendations in place, but if it can't even be seen on my app that I'll be doing that rotation later in the year then it really isn't a problem. Feels like I'm sneaking, which I hate, but I'm not taking a spot from a student that needs a SLOE with it being that late in the year so my admin don't think it'll be an issue either way come interview season.

I don't think doing a rotation later in the year after SLOE/interview season is a against the CORD recommendations.

 

[astronauticaldoc]

Only two M3 qs out of like 50+ messages just so others are aware so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You are correct, my bad. I clicked the wrong message thread. My apologies

 

[Doctor_Strange]

You are correct, my bad. I clicked the wrong message thread. My apologies

No sweat homie -- if M3s start posting excessively I'll just message the moderator to ask them to be removed mwahahaha

 

[joeschmoejohndoe]

How do you weigh the SLOE ranking vs the comments? I'm not sure how my SLOE is going to turn out but I got a high pass on the school eval so i'm assuming I'm getting a middle 1/3 ranking for my SLOE even though the comments on my eval appear to be mostly good without negatives: "joe did an excellent job on his clerkship' "histories and physicals were complete and nuanced which showed in his presentations" "differentials are complete and well reasoned" "is showing improvement on his management plans" so unless I'm about to get torpedoed with bad comments that weren't on my eval, my comments seem to be much better than my final ranking, how is this viewed/interpreted?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

How do you weigh the SLOE ranking vs the comments? I'm not sure how my SLOE is going to turn out but I got a high pass on the school eval so i'm assuming I'm getting a middle 1/3 ranking for my SLOE even though the comments on my eval appear to be mostly good without negatives: "joe did an excellent job on his clerkship' "histories and physicals were complete and nuanced which showed in his presentations" "differentials are complete and well reasoned" "is showing improvement on his management plans" so unless I'm about to get torpedoed with bad comments that weren't on my eval, my comments seem to be much better than my final ranking, how is this viewed/interpreted?

Probably top 1/3 or mid 1/3 depending on how competitive a place is and how much they over-rate their grades. For instance, a HP at my place is almost always going to be a top 1/3 on our rank list bc we just don’t give that many honors. Some may fall into the mid 1/3, but not many.

As for your question, I put more faith in the ranking, in conjunction with the data provided. Saying someone is a top 1/3 when only 10% get honorst and only 30% get top 1/3 means something. Saying someone gets a HP when 80% get honors means something. Whereas the narrative just saying nice things is much like a regular LOR. I’ve seen people with bottom 1/3 letters who were one of at the bottom of the grade distribution as well have nothing but nice things said in the narrative. Some people just don’t want to write negative things, ever.

So I put more faith in the grades/rankings IN THE CONTEXT of the data of the rank and grade distribution. I think where the comments help considerably is in the middle 1/3 group, trying to tease out who is likely to improve or be a good fit. Somebody who is middle 1/3 who aced the end of rotation exam, but struggled with efficiency or interpersonal skills... I’m probably going to pass... vs someone who maybe did poorly on the end of rotation exam but was a clinical standout and the only reason they were knocked down grade wise was the exam.

 

[EMTAB]

Thanks for taking the time to reply to students during such a crazy time, I tried searching this, but I'm not super SDN savvy. None of my 4 EM rotations have been at residency affiliated hospitals. I was applying FM and these EM rotations were just what the school had available, but on reflection I've enjoyed it a lot and am now (last minute) deciding to apply to EM. One of the physicians was an assistant program director at a large EM program and turned to me and straight up asked me "Why aren't you applying to EM? I'll write you a letter if you want." My concern is that my 3 other letters are FM or Peds. Realistically, what are the chances of a letter from a former assistant program director from a community hospital EM rotation holding weight for me?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Have him write an non-residency sloe. Try to get an em lor (or another nonresidency sloe) from one of the other EM rotations. Or more than one.

My only concern with using the other letters is that they’re going to say that you’re going into family practice most likely. Which may be problematic and make you look indecisive. It’s OK to still have those letters and submit them to FP programs if you were going to duel apply, and if they dont specifically say that, they’d be fine to use.

You have the advantage of this year most people not really having a ton of EM lors

 

[astronauticaldoc]

In, general when it comes down to vouching for us medical students... who has more say? Interns, PGY-2,3,4? Attending? I heard that at some programs, there's a day when everyone sits down for a meeting with all our photos up on a power point slide, and their either vote Yes or No. I heard, at the end of the day, it's going to be the interns/residents that "choose us." So I'm wondering is it the first year Interns or the Residents? With my last week, who should I spend more time with during this last stretch?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

In, general when it comes down to vouching for us medical students... who has more say? Interns, PGY-2,3,4? Attending? I heard that at some programs, there's a day when everyone sits down for a meeting with all our photos up on a power point slide, and their either vote Yes or No. I heard, at the end of the day, it's going to be the interns/residents that "choose us." So I'm wondering is it the first year Interns or the Residents? With my last week, who should I spend more time with during this last stretch?

Program leadership has the most say. But there is definitely resident input. You have to realize, when there’s 28 residents, everyone’s going to have their favorite, not everybody is going to like every candidate. So from a program leader ship standpoint, you have to take a step back and weigh everybody’s opinion equally.

The way I do it is, I formulate the rank list based on the scoring system. I have a blank with PowerPoint that every candidate has their own slide with all of their positives and negatives, scores, sloes, etc. we go to slide by slide for about two hours, and everybody weighs in, and I take notes. I then readjust the rank list based on their feedback with the PD and then we submit it.