EM PD - Ask Me Anything

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Sir, quick question.

I have two SLOE uploaded as of now and one is from ED Chair and another from ED Attending. The rest (4 more) I am still pending and they said they will upload it by this week or the next week latest.

The rest (4) of them are...
IM PD, IM Chair, 2 EM attendings...

Which would you advice in terms of LoR since I can only submit 4.
1. IM PD and IM Chair; forget the 2 EM attending becuase I already have 1 ED Chair and 1 ED attending
2. Either IM PD or IM Chair plus one more EM attending which will make it 3 SLOE. If this... would you prefer IM PD or IM Chair; IM Chair knows me better.
3. Just upload any of them immediately as soon as they become available.

Thank you.
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gamerEMdoc said:
I dont know that four ED letters are necessary. Id probably upload 3 then go with the IM letter you think knows you best and will be the best letter.
Click to expand...

Thanks for answering my question! Building upon this, if one has 4 ED letters, would you prefer this over say 3 SLOES and a IM letter?
 
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KShah1 said:
Thanks for answering my question! Building upon this, if one has 4 ED letters, would you prefer this over say 3 SLOES and a IM letter?
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Are you using "ED letters" interchangibly with SLOEs in this question?

@Fetor Hepaticus completed an IM residency, that's why it's a good idea for them to include a letter from their IM chair or IM PD.
 
surely said:
Are you using "ED letters" interchangibly with SLOEs in this question?

@Fetor Hepaticus completed an IM residency, that's why it's a good idea for them to include a letter from their IM chair or IM PD.
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Sorry for the confusion, I meant 4 actual SLOES.
 
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These SLOEs are killing me:
I have a strong LOR from my 3rd year EM preceptor, A SLOE from an audition that should be strong, and another SLOE that could be a dud (was given a 90.6/100 on my school's eval). Found out yesterday, my October audition is "finished with the SLOE process for the year" and apparently the deadline was this week for the committee. Not sure if that means only July-September rotators get SLOEs, or there was a process I didn't find out until literally yesterday.

Do I try to get a SLOE still, or a regular LOR from an attending? (90 percent of my apps are AOA)
Do I roll the dice with the possible dud to get my applications complete?
 
CajunMedic said:
These SLOEs are killing me:
I have a strong LOR from my 3rd year EM preceptor, A SLOE from an audition that should be strong, and another SLOE that could be a dud (was given a 90.6/100 on my school's eval). Found out yesterday, my October audition is "finished with the SLOE process for the year" and apparently the deadline was this week for the committee. Not sure if that means only July-September rotators get SLOEs, or there was a process I didn't find out until literally yesterday.

Do I try to get a SLOE still, or a regular LOR from an attending? (90 percent of my apps are AOA)
Do I roll the dice with the possible dud to get my applications complete?
Click to expand...

Very confused how a 90% = Dud? Is the school evaluation about extremely basic things like breathing?
 
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sfwtboy said:
Very confused how a 90% = Dud? Is the school evaluation about extremely basic things like breathing?
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Not really. I had little interaction with the letter writer, the one attending I worked with the most (who I told the letter writer, we had that option if we didn't work with them) gave me good feedback along with the residents. Almost without fail, if I was going to screw up royally or botch a presentation it was with the APD. Overall gut feeling when it was over wasn't a good one.

Also most of the ones I auditioned with have gotten interview invites. I figure SLOE + no interview is a red flag
 
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CajunMedic said:
These SLOEs are killing me:
I have a strong LOR from my 3rd year EM preceptor, A SLOE from an audition that should be strong, and another SLOE that could be a dud (was given a 90.6/100 on my school's eval). Found out yesterday, my October audition is "finished with the SLOE process for the year" and apparently the deadline was this week for the committee. Not sure if that means only July-September rotators get SLOEs, or there was a process I didn't find out until literally yesterday.

Do I try to get a SLOE still, or a regular LOR from an attending? (90 percent of my apps are AOA)
Do I roll the dice with the possible dud to get my applications complete?
Click to expand...

Probably just roll with the ones you have. If you got a 90% on your rotation, I doubt you're sloe is going to be terrible.
 
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CajunMedic said:
These SLOEs are killing me:
I have a strong LOR from my 3rd year EM preceptor, A SLOE from an audition that should be strong, and another SLOE that could be a dud (was given a 90.6/100 on my school's eval). Found out yesterday, my October audition is "finished with the SLOE process for the year" and apparently the deadline was this week for the committee. Not sure if that means only July-September rotators get SLOEs, or there was a process I didn't find out until literally yesterday.

Do I try to get a SLOE still, or a regular LOR from an attending? (90 percent of my apps are AOA)
Do I roll the dice with the possible dud to get my applications complete?
Click to expand...

What the ****...?
 
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All three programs I rotated at write all their sloes at once for all the rotators in the preceding year.
 
I dropped from 241 (step 1) → 225 (step 2). Any advice on how to handle this? I want to release my scores so my application is released but don't want it to affect my interview invites
 
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Sir, I just want to say thank you for helping us out. As of now, I have received two interview invites and one PD actually called me himself becuase my IM training was with military and his prior service. Again, thank you for helping us.
 
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Dippity said:
I dropped from 241 (step 1) → 225 (step 2). Any advice on how to handle this? I want to release my scores so my application is released but don't want it to affect my interview invites
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You have to roll with what you have. You can't go back and change it.
 
I understand you guys try to look at the application as a whole for the applicant, but assuming one makes your board score cutoffs, what is more important, Step 1 scores or strong SLOEs?
 
skiier54 said:
I apologize if this question was already asked but how bad is it if I don't have any publications? I've been unlucky and only have two poster presentations (even those at just my school) to show.. I've had 4 research projects and 2 didn't get anywhere, and the other two only got presented at my school. Seems like everyone has publications at my school. I go to a US MD school and my step1 score is between 235 and 240.
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Personally, the majority of applicants I review dont have an EM publication. At a research heavy site it may be an issue, but for the average EM program, I dont think anyone is going to care.
 
Are you part of the listserv on CDEM that is apparently banding together and releasing a big group of interview invites on Oct 12th? Not sure if the county programs are part of this, but I believe last year many of them released together on the 15th.
 
LostinLift said:
Are you part of the listserv on CDEM that is apparently banding together and releasing a big group of interview invites on Oct 12th? Not sure if the county programs are part of this, but I believe last year many of them released together on the 15th.
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I wonder how many programs actually are sticking to this, given the fact that several schools have started sending out invites over the last 3-4 days.
 
LostinLift said:
Are you part of the listserv on CDEM that is apparently banding together and releasing a big group of interview invites on Oct 12th? Not sure if the county programs are part of this, but I believe last year many of them released together on the 15th.
Click to expand...

Nope. We sent out about 2/3 of our invites, now trying to get through the a manageable number of applications to fill the last 1/3 and develop a waitlist. Certainly not an exact science.
 
gamerEMdoc said:
Nope. We sent out about 2/3 of our invites, now trying to get through the a manageable number of applications to fill the last 1/3 and develop a waitlist. Certainly not an exact science.
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Sir,

Do you guys actually sit down and review all the applications or use the system to set a cut off for the USMLE scores and review those above it? Because my program coordinator at my previous training in IM said they use a cut off score.
 
Fetor Hepaticus said:
Sir,

Do you guys actually sit down and review all the applications or use the system to set a cut off for the USMLE scores and review those above it? Because my program coordinator at my previous training in IM said they use a cut off score.
Click to expand...

Both kind of. ERAS lets you set tons of different filters. So we generate lists based on multiple different filters to try and find people. There is zero way you could go through 700 applications individually. So unfortunately, you have to filter. Its a necessary evil.

We start with a filter that finds all the students that rotated with us. Those all get invited.
We then use a variety of filters to try to weed the list down to a reasonable amount to review. The board cutoff we use is pretty low. We also apply filters for in state schools and in state permanent addresses. Also a filter for out of state schools that are "pipelines" for us... places we've matched very well at and continue to get students coming to rotate from.
With those filters we can get the list down to a reasonable amount, the program coordinator will go through the applications and will look for people with at least one SLOE. All that don't have one will get flagged as incomplete to go back to later. She then builds a spreadsheet for me to review, and I go in and review the applications to try and find potential fits.

That's basically the process we are using this year, but its always a work in progress. Back when the program was an AOA program several years ago, the number of applicants was reasonable and the program coordinator reviewed all the applications without any cutoffs. Now, because the number is overwhelming, we've had to change how we review the applications because otherwise it's not just possible.
 
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gamerEMdoc said:
Both kind of. ERAS lets you set tons of different filters. So we generate lists based on multiple different filters to try and find people. There is zero way you could go through 700 applications individually. So unfortunately, you have to filter. Its a necessary evil.

We start with a filter that finds all the students that rotated with us. Those all get invited.
We then use a variety of filters to try to weed the list down to a reasonable amount to review. The board cutoff we use is pretty low. We also apply filters for in state schools and in state permanent addresses. Also a filter for out of state schools that are "pipelines" for us... places we've matched very well at and continue to get students coming to rotate from.
With those filters we can get the list down to a reasonable amount, the program coordinator will go through the applications and will look for people with at least one SLOE. All that don't have one will get flagged as incomplete to go back to later. She then builds a spreadsheet for me to review, and I go in and review the applications to try and find potential fits.

That's basically the process we are using this year, but its always a work in progress. Back when the program was an AOA program several years ago, the number of applicants was reasonable and the program coordinator reviewed all the applications without any cutoffs. Now, because the number is overwhelming, we've had to change how we review the applications because otherwise it's not just possible.
Click to expand...

Let me know when you come across mine lol
 
gamerEMdoc said:
Both kind of. ERAS lets you set tons of different filters. So we generate lists based on multiple different filters to try and find people. There is zero way you could go through 700 applications individually. So unfortunately, you have to filter. Its a necessary evil.

We start with a filter that finds all the students that rotated with us. Those all get invited.
We then use a variety of filters to try to weed the list down to a reasonable amount to review. The board cutoff we use is pretty low. We also apply filters for in state schools and in state permanent addresses. Also a filter for out of state schools that are "pipelines" for us... places we've matched very well at and continue to get students coming to rotate from.
With those filters we can get the list down to a reasonable amount, the program coordinator will go through the applications and will look for people with at least one SLOE. All that don't have one will get flagged as incomplete to go back to later. She then builds a spreadsheet for me to review, and I go in and review the applications to try and find potential fits.

That's basically the process we are using this year, but its always a work in progress. Back when the program was an AOA program several years ago, the number of applicants was reasonable and the program coordinator reviewed all the applications without any cutoffs. Now, because the number is overwhelming, we've had to change how we review the applications because otherwise it's not just possible.[/Q

The chances that a student out of state and not one of these pipeline programs would have a low chance at being interview or do they get looked at after the first wave of interviews? Would you say this a common filter strategy for other programs as well?
Click to expand...
 
I imagine many programs use some type of similar strategy, but obviously I can’t speak for anyone but my own shop. I doubt there’s any program out there that were views every single application if they are getting 700 or more applications. Remember you only have a few weeks to do so before interviews go out. It’s just impossible to look at that many applications in detail. The other day I spent about 2 1/2 hours going through 20 applications trying to decide on about five interviews in that bunch. There’s no way you could scrutinize every application to that level detail. So you have to devise some sort of strategy is going to weed out a significant number. Whether that’s setting a high board cut off, looking at specific geographic areas, some combination of both, or something else, you have to figure out a way to filter it down. I wish it wasn’t that way, but right now everyone is applying to tons of programs, which leads to an impossible number of applications to get through from a program standpoint. It is what it is.

In terms of the other apps and if they get looked at, some do. After the first round of interviews we try to pick through the others to find potentially matchable candidates. It’s definitely an inexact science. People that have been in touch or expressed interest but didnt rotate get looked at, people with decent sloes and something we think may make them matchable with us. Like I said its an inexact science, for sure.

That being said, i’ve spoken to a lot of candidates privately over the past two years, and if you have messaged me about interest in my program and didn’t hear back yet re: an interview, please send me a message and let me know. I’m more than happy to look at anyone’s application for consideration who Ive been in touch with in the past, I just can’t go back through several years of messages on SDN to figure out who is who.
 
gamerEMdoc said:
I imagine many programs use some type of similar strategy, but obviously I can’t speak for anyone but my own shop. I doubt there’s any program out there that were views every single application if they are getting 700 or more applications. Remember you only have a few weeks to do so before interviews go out. It’s just impossible to look at that many applications in detail. The other day I spent about 2 1/2 hours going through 20 applications trying to decide on about five interviews in that bunch. There’s no way you could scrutinize every application to that level detail. So you have to devise some sort of strategy is going to weed out a significant number. Whether that’s setting a high board cut off, looking at specific geographic areas, some combination of both, or something else, you have to figure out a way to filter it down. I wish it wasn’t that way, but right now everyone is applying to tons of programs, which leads to an impossible number of applications to get through from a program standpoint. It is what it is.

In terms of the other apps and if they get looked at, some do. After the first round of interviews we try to pick through the others to find potentially matchable candidates. It’s definitely an inexact science. People that have been in touch or expressed interest but didnt rotate get looked at, people with decent sloes and something we think may make them matchable with us. Like I said its an inexact science, for sure.

That being said, i’ve spoken to a lot of candidates privately over the past two years, and if you have messaged me about interest in my program and didn’t hear back yet re: an interview, please send me a message and let me know. I’m more than happy to look at anyone’s application for consideration who Ive been in touch with in the past, I just can’t go back through several years of messages on SDN to figure out who is who.
Click to expand...
I'm curious how strongly regional bias can affect candidates that you review. Using your algorithm, is it possible that you never actually review certain top candidates?

Also, how large a region do you look at when considering geographic preference? If I do an away rotation in NYC have I "unlocked" the Northeast?
 
I absolutely skip top candidates. Im in a community EM program in a small city. You have to realize as a program where your competitive zone is. If someone with very high scores and top 10 Sloes applies, and there is no regional reason to tie them to our program geographically, I often skip them unless there is something in their app that makes me think they genuinely want to come here, because in general I assume they will match elsewhere. Top candidates match at there top 1-2 programs. If someone didnt rotate with you and isnt from your region, you arent going to be one of their top 1-2 programs. Also, top candidates also tend to cancel their interviews eventually.

I often use nfl draft analogies with the match. If you are picking first in the draft, you can take the best player. Those are the most competitive programs. They have a luxury of interviewing all of the top candidates, because they know they were going to match top candidates no matter where they are from. But when you are picking later in the first round of the nfl draft, teams are still looking for elite talent, but they are taking players who others passed up. Maybe they were injured the year before and had a down year, maybe they came out a year early, etc. Being in a less competitive position in the match is similar, you need to find elite people that fall through the cracks for some reason. That’s what I try to do in filling out the back end of the interviews after We’ve gotten all the rotators and geographic fits that meet our standards in. Im taking fliers on people I think we could match who could be high reward candidates that others may overlook.
 
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gamerEMdoc said:
I absolutely skip top candidates. Im in a community EM program in a small city. You have to realize as a program where your competitive zone is. If someone with very high scores and top 10 Sloes applies, and there is no regional reason to tie them to our program geographically, I often skip them unless there is something in their app that makes me think they genuinely want to come here, because in general I assume they will match elsewhere. Top candidates match at there top 1-2 programs. If someone didnt rotate with you and isnt from your region, you arent going to be one of their top 1-2 programs. Also, top candidates also tend to cancel their interviews eventually.

I often use nfl draft analogies with the match. If you are picking first in the draft, you can take the best player. Those are the most competitive programs. They have a luxury of interviewing all of the top candidates, because they know they were going to match top candidates no matter where they are from. But when you are picking later in the first round of the nfl draft, teams are still looking for elite talent, but they are taking guys who others passed up. Maybe they were injured the year before and had a down year, maybe they came out a year early, etc. Being in a less competitive position in the match is similar, you need to find elite people that fall through the cracks for some reason. That’s what I try to do in filling out the back end of the interviews. Im taking fliers on people I think we could match who could be high reward candidates that others may overlook.
Click to expand...

From your replies, it seems like geography can matter quite a bit. What is your recommendation for a DO student at a school in an area that is unfriendly to DOs that has no geographical limitations/preference? Should I try and set up auditions in multiple regions?
 
Id consider focusing on a region that is do friendly when picking your rotations, and that has a decent number of residencies, rather than spreading yourself out all over the place. But this is easier said than done since rotations themselves can be hard to come by anymore.
 
Hello,

I just got my first SLOE uploaded today. Is there any point in emailing programs to let them know? Or are applications still being reviewed to where it should be seen.

Thank you
 
So when is the right time to panic about not having any interviews? Do I need to start hopping on the email train yet?
 
BigGAC1 said:
So when is the right time to panic about not having any interviews? Do I need to start hopping on the email train yet?
Click to expand...

I know several residents at great programs that didn't get any invites until November. For now just chill, October invites will start happening ~en masse in a few days.
 
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gutonc said:
About halfway between Canadian Thanksgiving and American Thanksgiving.
Click to expand...

Okay, so I have permission to commence panicking on Nov 1st then? I just have to clear my schedule for these sorts of things - y'know?

jk - taking a breath... and continuing the compulsive email refreshing.
 
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Just scored my first round of applications for this weeks interviews. Hard to believe interview season is already here! Good luck everyone!

As always, feel free to keep the questions coming as this whole process marches on.
 
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Fyi, With a lot of programs banding together to use interview broker this year, be careful when scheduling interviews with this. My understanding through CORD communications was that the decision to use interview broker was to try and cut down on cancellations, at least in part. Interview broker allows programs to see if you are double booking them with another interview.
 
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How many applicants are you interviewing this year, Gamer?
 
gamerEMdoc said:
Just scored my first round of applications for this weeks interviews. Hard to believe interview season is already here! Good luck everyone!

As always, feel free to keep the questions coming as this whole process marches on.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to say thanks for investing so much time into this thread. I came here a few times in crisis mode, and having access to such great realistic advice is why I'm having such a great season so far. I very much appreciate it, dude.
 
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Wroooong said:
Just wanted to say thanks for investing so much time into this thread. I came here a few times in crisis mode, and having access to such great realistic advice is why I'm having such a great season so far. I very much appreciate it, dude.
Click to expand...

No problem! Best of luck everyone, let the games begin!
 
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Sorry if this has been asked but I've seen/heard mixed information - is it necessary to email coordinators directly to let them know a new SLOE was added? Or will they get some sort of notification through ERAS?
 
TeddyBoomBoom said:
It is not necessary, and I bet it is annoying.
Click to expand...

While searching through websites of some of my top choices I noticed one said to email the coordinator to let them know if we receive a new SLOE after the MSPE release; I wasn't sure if this is out of date or a common thing that programs expect.
 
Vivienne said:
While searching through websites of some of my top choices I noticed one said to email the coordinator to let them know if we receive a new SLOE after the MSPE release; I wasn't sure if this is out of date or a common thing that programs expect.
Click to expand...

If youre talking about OHSU coordinator I emailed her about my new SLOE the other day and she seemed not at all annoyed :)

EDIT: I didnt email any other programs though, since they do have a way of getting notified about new letters and I couldnt find any other websites requesting this action
 
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