EM fellowship=BC????

[MSc44]

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Members don't see this ad.

If you do a EM fellowship after a primary care residency can you sit for EM boards????

If not whats the point of EM fellowships???

 

[southerndoc]

No, only a residency in EM will allow you to sit for boards.

 

[dry dre]

No, only a residency in EM will allow you to sit for boards.

Just to second this, I wrote the EM boards a few years ago and received the same response.

 

[FoughtFyr]

If not whats the point of EM fellowships???

No one knows! I'm somewhat serious. At one time an FP could easily find work in an ED. Now, given the proliferation of EM training programs, and the numbers of graduates from these programs, only the "less desirable" ED spots are open to non-BE/BC EM physicians. Even if you get a slot, if the contract within a hospital changes hands, you could be fired. There is research out there that demonstrates BC/BE EPs are more cost effective, less likely to be sued, and make fewer mistakes.

Unfortunately, some over zealous FP program administrators have convinced medical students and residents both that these opporitunities still exist for FPs. It isn't true...

- H

 

[pushinepi2]

...If not whats the point of EM fellowships???

??? Go to the BCEM page of the American Board of Physician Specialists. They have quite a bit to say about this board certification issue. They offer an alternative pathway to "board certification" that is NOT recognized by all states. ACEP has worked hard to make the designation of "board certified in emergency medicine" consistent with residency training and ABEM board completion.

That being said, I believe I recently saw an advertisement for rural emergency physicians that were BC/BP in a primary care specialty with, "BCEM certification" accepted. That probably won't get an FP a job in an academic medical center, but opportunities in lesser-served communities most certainly exist for FPs with additonal training in emergency med.

Lest the mods and gods of the graduate EM forum breathe fire down upon me, the BCEM exam through this "American Board of Physician Specialties" is NOT (I repeat, NOT) the same as the ABEM pathway through proper/RRC approved EM residency training.

 

[OSUdoc08]

If you do a EM fellowship after a primary care residency can you sit for EM boards????

If not whats the point of EM fellowships???

EM is a primary care residency, according to the state of Oklahoma.

 

[FoughtFyr]

??? Go to the BCEM page of the American Board of Physician Specialists. They have quite a bit to say about this board certification issue. They offer an alternative pathway to "board certification" that is NOT recognized by all states. ACEP has worked hard to make the designation of "board certified in emergency medicine" consistent with residency training and ABEM board completion.

That being said, I believe I recently saw an advertisement for rural emergency physicians that were BC/BP in a primary care specialty with, "BCEM certification" accepted. That probably won't get an FP a job in an academic medical center, but opportunities in lesser-served communities most certainly exist for FPs with additonal training in emergency med.

Lest the mods and gods of the graduate EM forum breathe fire down upon me, the BCEM exam through this "American Board of Physician Specialties" is NOT (I repeat, NOT) the same as the ABEM pathway through proper/RRC approved EM residency training.

Florida is the only state that allows aBpS BCEM holders to advertise as board certified in EM.

And as for the "non-academic" centers - you still stand a good chance of being "pushed out" (read fired) if a corporate EM group ends up coming in. It happens all over and will happen more and more as the number of "real" BC EP increases to meet the nation's demands.

- H

 

[hello23]

??? ACEP has worked hard to make the designation of "board certified in emergency medicine" consistent with residency training and ABEM board completion.

Must make a correction here. It is NOT ACEP that worked hard. In fact, ACEP "does not disagree" to allow AAPS and its influence on Florida Medical Board for its recent board certification situation or bull****. On the AAEM webpage, you can see the letter written by ACEP president to Florida Medical board stating their position which is "does not disagree" there is another EM board certification entity in Florida.

It is AAEM that worked hard to fight for our specialty.

Please check aaem.org for more info/letters/comments.

 

[pushinepi2]

Must make a correction here. It is NOT ACEP that worked hard. In fact, ACEP "does not disagree" to allow AAPS and its influence on Florida Medical Board for its recent board certification situation or bull****. On the AAEM webpage, you can see the letter written by ACEP president to Florida Medical board stating their position which is "does not disagree" there is another EM board certification entity in Florida.

It is AAEM that worked hard to fight for our specialty.

Hmmmm...

The AAEM vs. ACEP debate is far beyond my area of comfort and expertise. Its rather enjoyable, being a student member of both societies, trying to decipher which organization truly has the best interest of emergency physicians in mind. By referencing ACEP, I did not mean to discredit the contributions that the AAEM has made to the advancement of the specialty. I think it is fair to say that both organizations share some common ground with regard to the board certification of emergency medicine physicians. From ACEP's website:

"Emergency medicine is a recognized specialty with over 140 approved residency training programs. A proliferation of a variety of certifying bodies will confuse credentialing bodies, hospitals and our patients," said ACEP President J. Brian Hancock, MD.

Three years ago, the Florida Board of Medicine (FBM) received a petition from the AAPS to be recognized as a certifying body for allopathic and osteopathic physicians in the state.

This recognition would allow AAPS diplomats in all specialties, including emergency medicine, to advertise themselves as board certified.

"ACEP believes that the path to certification in emergency medicine is through residency training in emergency medicine," Dr. Hancock said. "AAPS allows physicians trained in other specialties to qualify for their examination and represent themselves as board-certified."

Dr. Hancock added, "ACEP's policy recognizes the American Board of Emergency Medicine (ABEM) as the sole American Board of Medical Specialties (ABMS) certifying body for emergency medicine. The College also recognizes emergency medicine certifying bodies under the jurisdiction of the American Osteopathic Association (AOA) and the American Board of Pediatrics."

The Florida College of Emergency Physicians (FCEP) adheres to the same position and a chapter member provided testimony and outlined the College's position to the Florida Board of Medicine in person during testimony about the proposed rule in 2001. FCEP and ACEP were the only emergency medicine organizations to oppose the rule. Representatives from the Florida Society of Dermatologists and the Florida Society of Plastic Surgeons also opposed the proposal recognizing AAPS certification boards.

Despite the opposition, the Florida Board of Medicine voted in 2002 to accept the petition, creating a rule recognizing AAPS as a certifying body and allowing its diplomats to advertise themselves to the public as board certified.

Leaders of the Florida chapter said they have not seen any information that indicates the new rule has impacted the job market or the hospital credentialing process, but that the potential exists.

"The rule recognizes that those physicians with an AAPS certification have the ability to advertise themselves as board-certified. It does not, however, require that hospitals accept that certification," said Jake Bebber, Deputy Executive Director of FCEP.

Nevertheless, the Florida Medical Association, with the support of FCEP, asked the Board of Medicine to reconsider the rule. But after a committee report on the issue, the Board of Medicine decided in 2003 to keep the rule in place.

FCEP leaders are considering asking the Florida Board of Medicine to again examine its rule - less than a year after its first reconsideration.

-Push

 

[EMDrMoe]

Thanks, Push. That was a good synposis of both organizations' statements. Although AAEM staunchly and publicly stands behind ABEM certification, it's good to see that ACEP really does, deep down (ie: Dr. Hancock - I'm assuming that's the Ohio ACEP pres, Mary HancocK) believe in EM and EM docs. Sometimes I think the energy of competition between the organizations could be used for more productive action if they'd stand together. Just my 2 cents...

 

[Apollyon]

(ie: Dr. Hancock - I'm assuming that's the Ohio ACEP pres, Mary HancocK)

J. Brian Hancock is the immediate past president of ACEP - as the article says. I don't know where you came up with "Mary Hancock", after seeing that.

 

[southerndoc]

Sometimes I think the energy of competition between the organizations could be used for more productive action if they'd stand together. Just my 2 cents...

I, too, often ask myself the same question. If the two organizations worked together, we could accomplish a lot. Yet, when one organization is in power, there is often neglect of some parties. Take a look at our government. Currently the Republicans are pretty much calling the shots, and big business is favored over the people. Many years ago it was the Democrats in power and the people were favored over businesses. Each has its own pros and cons. Either one, if carried too far, is bad.

So, sometimes another organization serves a useful role. In the case of AAEM, it keeps the individual emergency physicians in mind. AAEM is very anti-corporation. ACEP, however, is NOT pro-corporation -- that should be strongly emphasized. They, too, are for individual emergency physicians, although its emphasis on individuals is less so than AAEM.

 

[Sessamoid]

I was a member of the FCEP when this measure got passed. I heard nothing at all about it until after they failed to prevent its passage. I understand they spoke out against it, but it doesn't sound like they tried very hard to rally support amongst its members. They didn't tell the AAEM, and they didn't bother to notify the physicians they were supposed to be representing about the issue. While I'm no longer living in Florida (and no longer a FCEP member), I'm less favorably inclined toward the ACEP in general and am considering letting my membership lapse in favor of keeping only my AAEM membership this year, partly because of this issue.

 

[EMDrMoe]

I was a member of the FCEP when this measure got passed. I heard nothing at all about it until after they failed to prevent its passage. I understand they spoke out against it, but it doesn't sound like they tried very hard to rally support amongst its members. They didn't tell the AAEM, and they didn't bother to notify the physicians they were supposed to be representing about the issue. While I'm no longer living in Florida (and no longer a FCEP member), I'm less favorably inclined toward the ACEP in general and am considering letting my membership lapse in favor of keeping only my AAEM membership this year, partly because of this issue.

Do people look differently on membership in one or the other organization (or both, for that matter)?

oh, pushinepi - it was because i didn't read your post carefully, sorry!