EM training for FM docs??

[bla_3x]

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I read in another post where someone said that FM docs can do an EM "fellowship". Is this true? I could not find such a thing on FRIEDA.
Thanks!

 

[cooldreams]

my understanding is that this is something more in the osteopathic residencies, and then mostly for rural type settings. i think as a fp without extra em training you might be able to do some em work, but even WITH the fellowship it is something that you likely wont do in a big city with much competition. this is because i think that you cannot be boarded in em with only the fellowship.

 

[DrMom]

There are FM fellowships in EM (allo). They tend to be geared towards rural EM practice. You can't actually be board certified in EM unless it is an approved 2-year fellowship, though.

 

[cooldreams]

There are FM fellowships in EM (allo). They tend to be geared towards rural EM practice. You can't actually be board certified in EM unless it is an approved 2-year fellowship, though.

to clarify, you are talking about a FP fellowship after an EM residency instead of a EM fellowship after a FP residency, correct?

also, your second sentence you are talking about an EM fellowship and not a FP fellowship right??

i ask these because i thought the original question was an EM fellowship after FP. just wondering 🙂

 

[Apollyon]

There are FM fellowships in EM (allo). They tend to be geared towards rural EM practice. You can't actually be board certified in EM unless it is an approved 2-year fellowship, though.

ABEM certified or BCEM (which is questionable)? As per ABEM, the only way to be board-eligible is to complete am EM residency of at least 3 years (so, if someone does 3 years of a 4 year program, that person still isn't board-eligible until they finish the 4th year).

 

[DrMom]

At one point I checked into one of these programs. I was told that a 1-year program is a non-standard board cert, but that the 2 year fellowship did enable you to actually be board cert as ABEM. I dunno for sure, this is just what I was told by the program director.

Overall, this option didn't interest me because it really seemed geared towards FM even in the "fellowship" years. The program I'd looked at only wants to train docs to do rural EM rather than any kind of trauma-type center, so their training focuses on rural/small/non-trauma.

 

[lowbudget]

AAFP's position paper on FP's in EM
http://www.aafp.org/x30341.xml

EM Board Certification through ABPS
http://www.abpsga.org/certification/emergency/eligibility.html

Hx of FP and EM
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3225/is_n4_v54/ai_18747165

AAFP EM Fellowship list
http://www.aafp.org/fellowships/other.html
I think Bayfront's got one and JPS is thinking of doing one.

 

[deleted6669]

the programs in TN allow a residency trained fp doc to gain valuable experience in em which leads to certification via an alternate/contested board pathway different than what em docs do(see LINK BELOW about ABPS). this will probably get you a job in a rural area(which you could also get just with experience) but it is in no way equivalent to a 3 yr residency in em.
it's not a bad idea or bad training it just isn't standard em training. I do work with a doc who got certified through this route. he is the medical director of a rural emergency dept but can not get credentialed to do em in more urban environments.
for DO's it is possible to do a 5 yr fp/em rersidency and get dual board certification but this is a different concept than the fp fellowship route as it meets all the requirements for both boards completely. hope that helps.

http://www.abpsga.org/certification/emergency/eligibility.html

 

[dr.smurf]

great articles low budget. its very unfortunate that the aafp and abem cannot agree and allow a joint FP/EM residency. it doesnt make sense to have IM/EM and not FP/EM when FP is clearly more similar in scope of practice to EM.

 

[deleted6669]

great articles low budget. its very unfortunate that the aafp and abem cannot agree and allow a joint FP/EM residency. it doesnt make sense to have IM/EM and not FP/EM when FP is clearly more similar in scope of practice to EM.

agree- the DO folks have the option of em/fp as a 5 yr residency but none for md (yet)

 

[island doc]

I read in another post where someone said that FM docs can do an EM "fellowship". Is this true? I could not find such a thing on FRIEDA.
Thanks!

There are EM Fellowships for FP's at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville which then allow one to sit for the AAPS (American Association of Physician Specialists) Board Exam in EM.

 

[allendo]

There are EM Fellowships for FP's at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville which then allow one to sit for the AAPS (American Association of Physician Specialists) Board Exam in EM.

Does anyone know how competetive the D.O. FP/EM programs are??

 

[nebrfan]

Anyone have a rough idea of the average salary of a rural EM FP doc?

 

[cooldreams]

i would guess it would approach a EM docs salary unless you pumped up your hours....

 

[deleted6669]

Anyone have a rough idea of the average salary of a rural EM FP doc?

I know a few of these guys. they make $75-95/hr working 24 hr shifts.

 

[MSc44]

agree- the DO folks have the option of em/fp as a 5 yr residency but none for md (yet)

if u do the 5 year em/fm program can u be board cert. by the same board that boardes MD's or only be cert by the americal college of osteopathic EM or FP

 

[DrMom]

if u do the 5 year em/fm program can u be board cert. by the same board that boardes MD's or only be cert by the americal college of osteopathic EM or FP

They're osteopathic residencies, so you take the osteopathic boards.

 

[deleted6669]

They're osteopathic residencies, so you take the osteopathic boards.

actually some are dual accredited so you can take either or both boards

 

[DrMom]

actually some are dual accredited so you can take either or both boards

good point. 🙂

 

[island doc]

Anyone have a rough idea of the average salary of a rural EM FP doc?

When I did it, I earned $80.00 per hour.

 

[12R34Y]

Considering that the typical salary range for boarded EM docs is above 150/hour. 80/hour sounds pretty low to me.

Most of the docs in the ED's in my area (midwest) make anywhere from 150-over 200/hour. Again....these are all residency trained and boarded in EM.

later

 

[ctsjas1]

Anyone have a rough idea of the average salary of a rural EM FP doc?

I just finished FP residency and do some ER moonlighting. One place pays $125/hr and the volume is about 35K/yr. The other place I work pays $105/hr and the volume is about 15K/yr. There are level I trauma centers within 30 minutes and so I rarely see any serious trauma unless it walks in or is carried in by friends. I did get my ATLS certification but I don't think it is required at either place. Both places pay your malpractice.

 

[skypilot]

I just finished FP residency and do some ER moonlighting. One place pays $125/hr and the volume is about 35K/yr. The other place I work pays $105/hr and the volume is about 15K/yr. There are level I trauma centers within 30 minutes and so I rarely see any serious trauma unless it walks in or is carried in by friends. I did get my ATLS certification but I don't think it is required at either place. Both places pay your malpractice.

Seems like a good gig. Can you get as many hours as you want? Why not just work full time in the ER?

 

[ctsjas1]

Seems like a good gig. Can you get as many hours as you want? Why not just work full time in the ER?

You're right. I currently have a year contract with a group but when it expires in June, I may have to punt. The available hours are plentiful at both ERs right now. I guess that is subject to change and I could always go back to private practice or urgent care. That's one thing I like about FP is the flexibility.

 

[raptor5]

Seems like a good way to bank some cash so you could hang your own shingle!

 

[dr.smurf]

yo ctsjas 1,

mind me asking what state your in? how did you get around the "er experience" part? ive read some job posts that indicate 2500 hours of er experience and some more. did you do a fellowship in EM?

thanks!