Email the acgme regarding new changes!

[DrBowtie]

is there any word about the fellowships? If nothing about that changed, was anything given up by the AOA to preserve access to MD fellowships?

Over the next six weeks, the governing bodies of the
AOA and AACOM will consider the opportunity presented. Out of respect for the leadership of our negotiating partners, and honoring our confidentiality agreement, we will not discuss the specific elements of the MOU until after the AOA and AACOM have made their decisions. Regardless of the decisions made, the ACGME, AOA, and AACOM leadership have opened doors previously closed to eachother. A spirit of collaboration and desire to craft a better future for GME in the United States for the betterment of the public has been a driving force for all involved. A desire to honor the traditions and high standards of both limbs of the profession has been apparent
throughout these discussions. The ACGME is hopeful that a single accreditation system is the outcome.
I will transmit to you the outcomes and next steps of the process I have
outlined above in late July 2013. Thank you for your patience, your advice,
your commitment to excellence, and your service to the American Public.
Sincerely,
Thomas J. Nasca, MD, MACP
Chief Executive Officer

I'm sure we'll hear something out of the ACGME soon. The above is an excerpt from the latest ACGME communication from mid June. Sounds like we may actually hear some details of the MOU.

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[dozitgetchahi]

Extremely disappointing to hear to be honest...sounds as if there's almost no chance of a merger going through in time for anyone currently in med school. Like others, I wonder what this means for ACGME fellowship situation.

I don't want to beleaguer the point, but it won't be a problem if you simply do an ACGME internship.

The chance of matching an ACGME fellowship coming out of most AOA residencies (i.e., IM) is near nil anyway.

The only people this potentially affected are those who are applying to advanced ACGME programs (anesthesia, rads, etc) and want to be able to apply to AOA internships while still being able to match ACGME fellowships down the road.

Take-home message...apply ACGME all the way through.

 

[HockeyDr09]

For those of you calling me naive. I'm not the naive one. I'm the one who attends all of the town halls, who attends all of these HoD's and searches for accurate information (honestly to try and help you all make informed decisions).The reason that I have begun to stray from this site is because I feel it's become apparent that students will never be happy with the profession. I was one of the strongest proponents for this merger when it was first announced, and I was torn to shreds (on this very thread I believe) on how the AOA would be stupid to take this deal and they are getting hosed and how they are going to lose their residencies. Now the AOA takes a stand because they were given a take it or leave it offer on the ACGME's terms, and they are stupid for not making the deal?

In reality, had they taken the deal, everyone would have been right back to the mentality that they got shafted and manhandled etc.

700+ DO's is a significant number. I do not agree with those who say otherwise. You obviously haven't seen them argue over various issues if you believe the only people who attend these events are all against the merger. There were many people there who where "pro-merger" but they didn't want the terms to be dictated in a take it or leave it offer. Did you forget that the AOA was initially in full support of this initiative a few months ago? They have already branched back out to the ACGME trying to get a deal done.

I believe they made the right decision. I'm sorry I'm in the significant minority (as I always am on this site).

 

[HockeyDr09]

700 (a self-selected group at that) physicians out of 80,000+ across the country does not seem very significant.

Every advocacy group is "self-selected", welcome to being an advocate. For this reason, I fail to see your point. Our US house of representatives is ~435 seats for 313 million. That's how representation works.

I would encourage anyone who repeatedly complaints about every aspect of osteopathic medicine to get more involved in their state associations and instill change. It is possible whether you believe it or not.

As I said, I know I'm in the minority, but I feel there is so much complaining, and very little action among posters on here. If you're that passionate. Take a stand.

 

[Dharma]

For those of you calling me naive. I'm not the naive one. I'm the one who attends all of the town halls, who attends all of these HoD's and searches for accurate information (honestly to try and help you all make informed decisions).The reason that I have begun to stray from this site is because I feel it's become apparent that students will never be happy with the profession. I was one of the strongest proponents for this merger when it was first announced, and I was torn to shreds (on this very thread I believe) on how the AOA would be stupid to take this deal and they are getting hosed and how they are going to lose their residencies. Now the AOA takes a stand because they were given a take it or leave it offer on the ACGME's terms, and they are stupid for not making the deal?

In reality, had they taken the deal, everyone would have been right back to the mentality that they got shafted and manhandled etc.

700+ DO's is a significant number. I do not agree with those who say otherwise. You obviously haven't seen them argue over various issues if you believe the only people who attend these events are all against the merger. There were many people there who where "pro-merger" but they didn't want the terms to be dictated in a take it or leave it offer. Did you forget that the AOA was initially in full support of this initiative a few months ago? They have already branched back out to the ACGME trying to get a deal done.

I believe they made the right decision. I'm sorry I'm in the significant minority (as I always am on this site).

I think it's great that you have taken real action in the matters that affect the profession and you deserve accolades for such, with a doubt. That said, do you honestly believe that the docs at these meetings are truly representative of the overall D.O. population? Odds are there is a disproportionate representation at such gatherings, I'd gather many of which have taken a nice sip or two from the Kool Aid every now and then.

 

[HockeyDr09]

I don't think that ANYONE outside of those on the AOA/ACOFP boards would argue differently. That's probably my biggest problem with this... 15-20 people (or however many make up the two boards) are essentially controlling the fate of thousands who, on the majority, do NOT agree with these decisions. It's sickening.

You forgot to mention AACOM which is composed of the deans from every DO school voted unanimously to pass the merger initially, and then after hearing the terms of the MOU voted unanimously to DENY the merger. I feel like many of you are posting without a majority of the information.

 

[preDoGuy24]

For those of you calling me naive. I'm not the naive one. I'm the one who attends all of the town halls, who attends all of these HoD's and searches for accurate information (honestly to try and help you all make informed decisions).The reason that I have begun to stray from this site is because I feel it's become apparent that students will never be happy with the profession. I was one of the strongest proponents for this merger when it was first announced, and I was torn to shreds (on this very thread I believe) on how the AOA would be stupid to take this deal and they are getting hosed and how they are going to lose their residencies. Now the AOA takes a stand because they were given a take it or leave it offer on the ACGME's terms, and they are stupid for not making the deal?

In reality, had they taken the deal, everyone would have been right back to the mentality that they got shafted and manhandled etc.

700+ DO's is a significant number. I do not agree with those who say otherwise. You obviously haven't seen them argue over various issues if you believe the only people who attend these events are all against the merger. There were many people there who where "pro-merger" but they didn't want the terms to be dictated in a take it or leave it offer. Did you forget that the AOA was initially in full support of this initiative a few months ago? They have already branched back out to the ACGME trying to get a deal done.

I believe they made the right decision. I'm sorry I'm in the significant minority (as I always am on this site).

I don't have the impression you are naive I actually applaud the fact you have gone to these meetings and are participating, good on you bro. I think if the aoa was expecting to come to the table as equals (power wise) they were foolish. We-Dos need the acgme a hell of a lot more then they need us, the aoa has foolishly opened up school after school and branch campus after branch campus with disregard for the necessary amount of GME to support this, putting there burden onto the acgme. Our leadership has "lead" is into an unsustainable excess of graduating physician to residency ratio. IMO this is a join or die situation, and this decision is just going to make more student doctors apply only acgme.

As a side I would love to see a poll on what % of graduating osteopathic physicians would switch there degree name, California 1960 whatever it was style? Maybe that could be a decent measure to take to our "leadership" and show how students,who are the future of osteopathic medicine, feel about it's current head in the sand, never evolving, praise at still philosophy-just a thought.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[Dharma]

You forgot to mention AACOM which is composed of the deans from every DO school voted unanimously to pass the merger initially, and then after hearing the terms of the MOU voted unanimously to DENY the merger. I feel like many of you are posting without a majority of the information.

So, why has there not been better PR on the part of the AOA/AACOM to keep students/residents/docs informed? Most of the info we get is glossed over BS.

 

[HockeyDr09]

I think it's great that you have taken real action in the matters that affect the profession and you deserve accolades for such, with a doubt. That said, do you honestly believe that the docs at these meetings are truly representative of the overall D.O. population? Odds are there is a disproportionate representation at such gatherings, I'd gather many of which have taken a nice sip or two from the Kool Aid every now and then.

Honestly I do not care about accolades, and I don't feel I have even truly accomplished anything worthwhile for any of us as of yet. I just want to keep you all informed from my perspective, as I've been watching this process very closely over the year and a half.

 

[HockeyDr09]

I don't have the impression you are naive I actually applaud the fact you have gone to these meetings and are participating, good on you bro. I think if the aoa was expecting to come to the table as equals (power wise) they were foolish. We-Dos need the acgme a hell of a lot more then they need us, the aoa has foolishly opened up school after school and branch campus after branch campus with disregard for the necessary amount of GME to support this, putting there burden onto the acgme. Our leadership has "lead" is into an unsustainable excess of graduating physician to residency ratio. IMO this is a join or die situation, and this decision is just going to make more student doctors apply only acgme.

As a side I would love to see a poll on what % of graduating osteopathic physicians would switch there degree name, California 1960 whatever it was style? Maybe that could be a decent measure to take to our "leadership" and show how students,who are the future of osteopathic medicine, feel about it's current head in the sand, never evolving, praise at still philosophy-just a thought.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

I absolutely agree with this. This is the largest problem in my opinion. Many of us have to realize the the AOA represents ALL DO's. Not just osteopathic medical students. They are not going to cater to us. I know for a fact they do far more to help us that goes unnoticed, but that's besides the point.

I do agree that if some kind of poll was created, it would give us some powerful insight into what many DO's think.

 

[DrBowtie]

Every advocacy group is "self-selected", welcome to being an advocate. For this reason, I fail to see your point. Our US house of representatives is ~435 seats for 313 million. That's how representation works.

I would encourage anyone who repeatedly complaints about every aspect of osteopathic medicine to get more involved in their state associations and instill change. It is possible whether you believe it or not.

As I said, I know I'm in the minority, but I feel there is so much complaining, and very little action among posters on here. If you're that passionate. Take a stand.

See I think that is where the crux lies. You are encouraging people to become involved with osteopathic this and osteopathic that. The people wanting to be in osteopathic specific organizations are inherently supportive of the distinction. I suspect most people on the other side of the argument would rather just become active in the overarching state medical assns where there isn't the allo/osteo distinction.

 

[Gastrapathy]

AOA programs can't all meet ACGME requirements. Bet that was part of our terms.

 

[sylvanthus]

AOA programs can't all meet ACGME requirements. Bet that was part of our terms.

Ya agreed, there was something about family medicine in community programs remaining viable if I read it correctly.

 

[se20001984]

I'm certain the acgme would have looked the other way.... If the osteopathic - bs was taken out oif schools



Those small hospitals will never have the adequate needs ....bc they are so small- which is not a bad thing - health care regardless of anything


I think it was AOA that put the end to this - no way to look around it

 

[dozitgetchahi]

I absolutely agree with this. This is the largest problem in my opinion. Many of us have to realize the the AOA represents ALL DO's. Not just osteopathic medical students. They are not going to cater to us. I know for a fact they do far more to help us that goes unnoticed, but that's besides the point.

I do agree that if some kind of poll was created, it would give us some powerful insight into what many DO's think.

Keep in mind that the AOA represents the fraction of DOs who opted to attend osteopathic programs (and decided to stay in the AOA afterwards). More than half of DOs have been going ACGME for training for years,, so it's an open question as to what portion of DOs are actually represented by the AOA (but I bet it's nowhere near 'all DOs'.