Emcare ambassador travel locums

[GeneralVeers]

I've done EmBassador before. It's not as bad as you guys make it out to be. I was never forced to work weekends, Holidays, or at any facility I didn't want. The big benefit was that it paid certain bonuses as a guaranteed hourly. Even for scheduled shift I was being paid more than the full time guys. Unless something with the program has changed, there were no obligations.

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[GTP]

I've done EmBassador before. It's not as bad as you guys make it out to be. I was never forced to work weekends, Holidays, or at any facility I didn't want. The big benefit was that it paid certain bonuses as a guaranteed hourly. Even for scheduled shift I was being paid more than the full time guys. Unless something with the program has changed, there were no obligations.

This is the idea I'm getting too. They give $50 per hour bonus for holiday pay. However, i did review a sample contract today that had some things that were impossible to swallow. When did you work for them ?

 

[miacomet]

What did they want you to swallow?

 

[emergentmd]

Why sign up for something you can do yourself that will get you better rates, better work environment, complete control over your schedule?

I don't get it.

I actually do. New grads are green without experience and connections. These "firefighter" programs feast on all of these newly minted docs.

There is a reason most people never stay with being a firefighter. After a year, they figure out its better to just do it yourself.

A firefighter will one day sit next to a true locums doctors wondering why he is making $200/hr more doing a nice swing shift while you are starting your 5th overnight shift.

Yes my friend. That person is me. There have been many times where I am working with a full time/firefighter making $300/hr more

Enjoy.

 

[GTP]

What did they want you to swallow?

You guys were more fun when everyone thought I was a guy

 

[miacomet]

You guys were more fun when everyone thought I was a guy

Haha. I didn't mean it that way AT ALL! And wh I actually went by your (funny) profile pic. Maybe not upstate, but this question can apply equally to the fellas.

I meant- what crazy crap are our EMcare brethren putting in their contracts nowadays?

 

[emergentmd]

You guys were more fun when everyone thought I was a guy

Wait, you are a gal? If that is the case, Please go and be an ambassador. Im tired of grouchy guys doing 7 straight nights working next to me.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

EmBassador does sound better than scab doesn't it? But don't forget that's what they are a significant percentage of the time. Docs doing that work facilitates corporate medicine taking over contracts that used to be owned by doctors.

 

[GTP]

Yes I'm a girl. My avatar is avogrado (biochem major with ms). don't judge. I don't think I should expose the contract on this thread. But it's about 15 pages of very awkward language that's difficult to understand. There is a sentence in there about them not scheduling you any more shifts if someone at the hospital says so

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Yes I'm a girl. My avatar is avogrado (biochem major with ms). don't judge. I don't think I should expose the contract on this thread. But it's about 15 pages of very awkward language that's difficult to understand. There is a sentence in there about them not scheduling you any more shifts if someone at the hospital says so

Please get a contract lawyer to go review it. Go to white coat investor if you have trouble finding one. How can you negotiate correctly if you don't know the contract in and oujt? Yes it is some money but I'm glad that I got a contract review for my first contract. Got a signing bonus when even talking to other new docs they didn't receive one at the same place..

 

[GTP]

I'm not going to waste a laywer on this contract. It won't even be in my top contracts by the end of the month. I'd rather spend money on something that has a good chance of giving me money in the future. I actually just bought wci book. It got shipped yesterday.

 

[namethatsmell]

GTP, I was in a similar situation a few years ago and signed on to travel away from home to work directly with a smaller group (no locums or super-strike-hit-team). Allow me to make a few humble suggestions:

- Consider a spot directly with a non-CMG group. If you're going to be travelling anyway, there's really no reason not to. More small groups than you'd think are willing to accommodate a fly in/out doc. Many pay better than CMGs and in my experience (I've worked for a CMG too) you will get the benefits already mentioned by others in the thread.

- Maximize your work time when away from home. Target places with 10-12 hour shifts that will block your shifts together 2-5 at a time. Look for places that are a direct flight away or you can drive a few hours to get to -- your non-work life will thank you.

- Don't let them trap you with cash. If you must take a sign-on bonus, don't take one for longer than a year. Better yet, ask for a higher hourly rate instead of a sign-on. You'd be shocked at how quickly a great place to work can turn into a nightmare. By not being locked in, you'll also have more leverage for scheduling and other things. The ability to leave a gig at any time is your best negotiating power.

- Look for places with a favorable malpractice environment ie a state like Indiana or Texas, someplace very rural place, a VA/civilian military gig, an academic job with sovereign immunity, etc. Again, if you're going to be traveling anyway there's no reason not to.

 

[BoardingDoc]

avogrado

Avogadro.

 

[MechEDoc]

I've done EmBassador before. It's not as bad as you guys make it out to be. I was never forced to work weekends, Holidays, or at any facility I didn't want. The big benefit was that it paid certain bonuses as a guaranteed hourly. Even for scheduled shift I was being paid more than the full time guys. Unless something with the program has changed, there were no obligations.

Things have changed. PM for details.

 

[GTP]

Avogadro.

lol I didn't even notice this. Thanks. I've been having TIAs for days now. I got a gig guys with benefits and stuff. So no ambassador for me. Thanks for all the comments.

 

[GTP]

GTP, I was in a similar situation a few years ago and signed on to travel away from home to work directly with a smaller group (no locums or super-strike-hit-team). Allow me to make a few humble suggestions:

- Consider a spot directly with a non-CMG group. If you're going to be travelling anyway, there's really no reason not to. More small groups than you'd think are willing to accommodate a fly in/out doc. Many pay better than CMGs and in my experience (I've worked for a CMG too) you will get the benefits already mentioned by others in the thread.

- Maximize your work time when away from home. Target places with 10-12 hour shifts that will block your shifts together 2-5 at a time. Look for places that are a direct flight away or you can drive a few hours to get to -- your non-work life will thank you.

- Don't let them trap you with cash. If you must take a sign-on bonus, don't take one for longer than a year. Better yet, ask for a higher hourly rate instead of a sign-on. You'd be shocked at how quickly a great place to work can turn into a nightmare. By not being locked in, you'll also have more leverage for scheduling and other things. The ability to leave a gig at any time is your best negotiating power.

- Look for places with a favorable malpractice environment ie a state like Indiana or Texas, someplace very rural place, a VA/civilian military gig, an academic job with sovereign immunity, etc. Again, if you're going to be traveling anyway there's no reason not to.

There is actually a place I may be checking out next week that is like this. I'm quite shocked so far by the details, and im sure it will be better. It will only be a 2 hour drive from where I'll be staying.

 

[emergentmd]

Embassaor/Firefighter to me sounds way to complicated and when somethings sounds so complicated, they made it that way to trap you. They could just tell you this is the rate, this is the holiday bonus. No sign on bonus for 2 yrs worked, no clause on covering shortage, no forced coverage. You sign on, get a better rate than everyone else, do your shift, go home.

I remember something similar to being offered the military scholarship in Med school. Sounded great, happy recruiters, many residencies, do whatever residency you want, just sign up for 4 yrs and we pay for 4 yrs of med school then you are out. You get to pick where you go and usually guaranteed placement. Usually guaranteed specialty. You get a summer stipend for a few weeks of training.

That sounded great to a poor med student with massaging of the program
1. Guaranteed residency and specialty
2. Money to train for a few summer weeks
3. Paid for med school
4. Have great freedom when you do residency
5. Be an officer

They forgot to tell me about the negatives
1. We put you where we need you and the specialty we need you in.
2. There is a war, Middle east for you
3. We own you. Your assignment has changed, you have a week to pack up.

 

[miacomet]

GTP, I was in a similar situation a few years ago and signed on to travel away from home to work directly with a smaller group (no locums or super-strike-hit-team). Allow me to make a few humble suggestions:

- Consider a spot directly with a non-CMG group. If you're going to be travelling anyway, there's really no reason not to. More small groups than you'd think are willing to accommodate a fly in/out doc. Many pay better than CMGs and in my experience (I've worked for a CMG too) you will get the benefits already mentioned by others in the thread.

- Maximize your work time when away from home. Target places with 10-12 hour shifts that will block your shifts together 2-5 at a time. Look for places that are a direct flight away or you can drive a few hours to get to -- your non-work life will thank you.

- Don't let them trap you with cash. If you must take a sign-on bonus, don't take one for longer than a year. Better yet, ask for a higher hourly rate instead of a sign-on. You'd be shocked at how quickly a great place to work can turn into a nightmare. By not being locked in, you'll also have more leverage for scheduling and other things. The ability to leave a gig at any time is your best negotiating power.

- Look for places with a favorable malpractice environment ie a state like Indiana or Texas, someplace very rural place, a VA/civilian military gig, an academic job with sovereign immunity, etc. Again, if you're going to be traveling anyway there's no reason not to.

Any ideas what military places pay right now?

 

[namethatsmell]

Any ideas what military places pay right now?

For starting rates, I think the pay is generally better than most academic places and less than in the community. My n=2 so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Just to offer another perspective:

I am currently working on the TH travel team. After looking a a handful of other opportunities, my spouse and I decided that this job was the best choice for us as her schedule is much more demanding and arbitrary than mine. I think the one big advantage this kind of travel job has over traditional locums is that they guarantee a set number of hours per month, whereas with true locums you might get cancelled if they all of a sudden find a full timer to work for a lower rate. I have not been bouncing around to multiple different facilities within a short period of time. I like my co-attendings and nurses. The rate I am paid is significantly higher than local full time jobs I found. The schedule flexibility is great - I work basically whenever I want - yes, I do work what I consider to be a fair share of nights / weekends / holidays. I block my shifts however I want them, and I have a ton of time for extended vacations, etc.

Are there opportunities in true locums with higher rates? Sure. But at this point in my life, I need a reliable stream of income, and the hours guarantee is a big benefit for me. I might transition to a more traditional locums setup in the future - but this arrangement has worked well for me so far.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

This emcare thing I'm looking at (this is the same as envision right? Sorry I sound stupid) is 265 per hour with benefits and 275 ic. And there are some holiday incentives too

Ha ha, benefits and half the payroll taxes for only $10 an hour? Does anyone fall for that? That needs to be at least 10% more.

 

[miacomet]

Ha ha, benefits and half the payroll taxes for only $10 an hour? Does anyone fall for that? That needs to be at least 10% more.

WCI, even coming from a high tax state and possibly earning less than 314 married and thus eligible for the pass-through deduction? Curious, esp as in my case I can get Federal bennies through my other half.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Good point, the pass-thru deduction does make it a little more attractive, but I'd still expect the employer to fork over what he's spending on benefits and payroll taxes. That's at least $30K.

 

[miacomet]

Good point, the pass-thru deduction does make it a little more attractive, but I'd still expect the employer to fork over what he's spending on benefits and payroll taxes. That's at least $30K.

So $20 an hour more for a 1600 hour year?

 

[MechEDoc]

There is a sentence in there about them not scheduling you any more shifts if someone at the hospital says so

That is in pretty much every contract even if you don't see it in yours. It will be between the CMG and the hospital. However the hospital is usually in pretty rough shape and doesn't bounce anyone. Not even me after I laid into an administrator who directed me to stop patient care on unstable patients to "stop the clock" on various EMR metrics instead of focusing on the dying. I think they learned that I actually cared about providing patient care (Novel! doc telling a suit to FO. There is only one hospital that I have heard of (word of mouth) that bounced lots of doctors with that clause.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

So $20 an hour more for a 1600 hour year?

I think the 10% is a general rule, if you're really the one deciding between and employee job and an independent contractor job, you really need to get into the nitty gritty- how big is the 401(k) match, how much will it cost YOU to buy health insurance, what will your share of the payroll taxes really be etc.

If I were working 1600 hours, I'd probably want more than $30K to be an independent contractor assuming a fairly standard set of benefits. But it depends...

 

[deleted245139]

GTP = Emcare Embassador/TH Embassador/CMG Firefighter
Emergentmd = Pure locums who does his own IC work

GTP = $275/hr and gets the added bonus of
1. working in the worst places
2. Get bounced around at different sites, different charting system, different referrals
3. Gets plugged into weekend, holidays, nights, etc while getting to put in 7 days off a mont
4. Overworked b/c they are short docs and the swing shift just didn't get filled
5. Just got comfortable at a hospital but now gets moved to another crappy place without any control
6. You just sold all control you had for $275/hr
7. You are beholden to hospital metrics and likely meetings

emergentmd = Last yr made $350K working 710hrs. Made another 200K at FSEDs. I have never worked a locums shift for less than $275/hr in my life, and I would say 95% of my shifts are over 350/hr.
1. Work where I want and actually like my Locums place. Locums places I dislike, I just don't pick up shifts. I have turned down $650/hr gigs b/c these places sucked to bad.
2. One Charting system for the last 3 yrs.
3. I worked a total of 20 weekend days at Locums place last year. I was off 5 dys over Thanksgiving, 12 days over Christmas, off July 4th, Off easter, Off Memorial day. Off every holiday my kids were off. I had 4 months where I did not do a weekend shift.
4. I have complete control over my schedule.
5. I can work 5 days next month or 25 days. I have 20 shifts sitting in my email looking for coverage this month.
6. No metrics, no meetings.
7. I have worked next to people that were paid 1/2 my rate, and that includes the Embassadors.

This sounds awesome...
What state? Jw...

 

[deuist]

This emcare thing I'm looking at (this is the same as envision right? Sorry I sound stupid) is 265 per hour with benefits and 275 ic. And there are some holiday incentives too

That's way too low for a firefighter gig. You should realistically be making closer to $350/hour with hotel and mileage (or airline tickets) reimbursed.

 

[GTP]

I think the 10% is a general rule, if you're really the one deciding between and employee job and an independent contractor job, you really need to get into the nitty gritty- how big is the 401(k) match, how much will it cost YOU to buy health insurance, what will your share of the payroll taxes really be etc.

If I were working 1600 hours, I'd probably want more than $30K to be an independent contractor assuming a fairly standard set of benefits. But it depends...

Just got your book. I feel like a groupie

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Just got your book. I feel like a groupie

Being "internet-famous" is weird for all of us. I run into people all the time who know little intricate details of my financial life buried in a post from years ago and I don't even know their name.