Emergency Medicine 2014-2015 Residency Cycle

[gutonc]

Whoops! My mistake. 15 is quite a few, congrats on getting so many

do these horror stories include people who matched 10+? Or are we talking like 6

Sitting at 11 and looking at my schedule, 12 might be my max.. Although i would like to do more if possible

Rather than focusing on horror stories, why not go to the Charting Outcomes 2014 document (p. 73 specifically) and plot yourself on the appropriate curve? I'll save you the trouble and say that, as an independent applicant with 11 ranks, your match probability is 95%...to get to 99% you need another 6 interviews. An AMG with >15 interviews isn't helping himself in terms of match probability (but may be in terms of finding the right fit...program 17 might be "the one").

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[res1cue]

Rather than focusing on horror stories, why not go to the Charting Outcomes 2014 document (p. 73 specifically) and plot yourself on the appropriate curve? I'll save you the trouble and say that, as an independent applicant with 11 ranks, your match probability is 95%...to get to 99% you need another 6 interviews. An AMG with >15 interviews isn't helping himself in terms of match probability (but may be in terms of finding the right fit...program 17 might be "the one").

What you say is true if I was classified as a "us senior" but as a DO student, charting outcomes classifies osteopaths, IMG, and all other misc. into one lump category which makes it harder to interpret

 

[gutonc]

What you say is true if I was classified as a "us senior" but as a DO student, charting outcomes classifies osteopaths, IMG, and all other misc. into one lump category which makes it harder to interpret

No it doesn't. You're in the "independent applicant" group and pretending you have better (or worse) outcomes than the group as a whole is stupid. That's the only data available and it's as good as you're going to find.

You can either practice EBM (Evidence Based Matching) or you can live in a fantasy world where the data don't apply to you.

Your call of course, but at least be honest about picking magic over data if that's your choice.

 

[blutie202]

If you've not heard from a program, does that mean you're on the wait list, haven't been reviewed yet or possibly rejected (and notices haven't been sent out yet via eras)?

I never understood why this whole process can be such a mystery and unnecessarily complicated.

 

[EMdoc!!]

i like to think that most programs stop sending out rejections after nov 1, i say this only because one program sent out a message that they would send out their rejections by nov 1st, no hard data on that of course, but i would imagine that programs have been able to look at all the applications they have received by this point and put people in a category

 

[hoot504]

i like to think that most programs stop sending out rejections after nov 1, i say this only because one program sent out a message that they would send out their rejections by nov 1st, no hard data on that of course, but i would imagine that programs have been able to look at all the applications they have received by this point and put people in a category

Judging by last year's rejections thread, this (sadly) does not appear to be the case with most programs.

 

[Ayybaybay]

Curious if anyone could help me out. When do programs finish ranking students aka when is the deadline to get your step score in. I think the February 25th date is the deadline for applicants but is that also the deadline for programs as well or is there's much earlier? Thanks ahead of time

 

['murica]

I think 2/25 is the deadline for programs as well, but I assume most start making their rank list right after they are done with interviews, which is the last week of January or first week of february from what I have seen. Some places might not care if you don't have step 2 in, especially if you did well on step 1. But then again, some might. To be safe, get your score by the last week of January?

 

[Ayybaybay]

Can anyone else corroborate those dates for programs to rank students deadline

 

[noshie]

Can anyone else corroborate those dates for programs to rank students deadline

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/MRM-Institution-Checklist.pdf

It is listed as Feb 25th, at the bottom of the page. However, this is when their list needs to be finalized on the NRMP system. The program will probably have a meeting sometime in February to discuss their final list. This would be different based on individual program preferences. If I were you, I would aim to have the scores done before the end of January. The reason I say January is because most programs have interviews into the middle and end of January, so their final meeting will likely be after their last interview. No real data to back that up because it is not something anyone can predict or generalize...

 

[gutonc]

Curious if anyone could help me out. When do programs finish ranking students aka when is the deadline to get your step score in. I think the February 25th date is the deadline for applicants but is that also the deadline for programs as well or is there's much earlier? Thanks ahead of time

Deadlines for submitting rank lists are the same for programs and applicants. But anyone (program or applicant) that waits until the 25th to submit is an idiot.

Most programs will finalize their lists a week or 3 before the deadline.

 

[Ayybaybay]

How bad is it if my step 2 CS doesn't come back until February 11th. Am I kind of SOL or should I be okay. This is also for prgrams that require passing score for rank?

 

[noshie]

How bad is it if my step 2 CS doesn't come back until February 11th. Am I kind of SOL or should I be okay. This is also for prgrams that require passing score for rank?

I would strongly suggest calling each program individually and discussing your situation with them. Some programs that have a rule that you must have it in by the deadline may give you an exception and rank you anyway. February 11th is by the deadline, but by telling them at the very least you will be giving them a heads up so they don't just throw your application out and forgo ranking you because you don't have your step 2 when they have their final rank list meeting. From what I have read, some programs want it by the deadline and some don't think its necessary as long as you do it by the time you start the residency program (this information is usually on their website or FREIDA).

 

[Siggy]

How bad is it if my step 2 CS doesn't come back until February 11th. Am I kind of SOL or should I be okay. This is also for prgrams that require passing score for rank?

I know my hospital (mix of AOA and ACGME, but the EM program is AOA) has a policy that programs cannot rank someone unless they have passed the CS. That policy is in place because of the hospital being burned in the past with people not passing CS and not being able to start on time.

 

[Elinor17]

Hey everyone! I am an M2 who is seriously considering EM (worked in one for a year as a scribe). I was hoping to hear from people regarding importance of grades (first year wasn't great, second is much better) and what scores I should aim for in Step 1. I would love to go to California (I hear that's a popular choice ) but I would be happy getting into a good program. My extracurricular is solid, I don't have research and took summer off however, I plan on shadowing at the ER in my hospital.

Anyway, any advice or personal stories would be greatly appreciated.
Good luck to everyone interviewing!

 

[Zebra Hunter]

Hey everyone! I am an M2 who is seriously considering EM (worked in one for a year as a scribe). I was hoping to hear from people regarding importance of grades (first year wasn't great, second is much better) and what scores I should aim for in Step 1. I would love to go to California (I hear that's a popular choice ) but I would be happy getting into a good program. My extracurricular is solid, I don't have research and took summer off however, I plan on shadowing at the ER in my hospital.

Anyway, any advice or personal stories would be greatly appreciated.
Good luck to everyone interviewing!

You're going to get a bunch of vague responses like "get good grades, do well on your step, apply broadly" because your questions are kinda silly. Scores and grades are important, and they will be important for any single specialty that you apply to. Do you need a 260 to match into EM? No, but it would definitely help if you're wanting to get into a Cali program (especially considering you stating you didn't do well your first year). You don't need to be AOA either, but many of the more competitive programs (Advocate Christ, USC, Carolinas, etc.) won't pay much attention to you if you don't have impressive stats. Take a look at the 2014 charting outcomes of the match in order to figure out the stats of those matching (and not) into EM.

 

[fahimaz7]

For those of you who are hating on people for going to lots of interviews, please realize that you don't really know where you want to go unless you get there and see it for yourself. Places that you may think are your "dream" sites may turn out to be a nightmare when you actually get their for your interview day. While some people are set on a location and don't care about anything else, you'll be surprised with the vibe you get at other schools and you might just find yourself ranking these other programs towards the top when it comes February.

Go on whatever interview you think you are interested in. That's my 2-cents.

 

[Elinor17]

You're going to get a bunch of vague responses like "get good grades, do well on your step, apply broadly" because your questions are kinda silly. Scores and grades are important, and they will be important for any single specialty that you apply to. Do you need a 260 to match into EM? No, but it would definitely help if you're wanting to get into a Cali program (especially considering you stating you didn't do well your first year). You don't need to be AOA either, but many of the more competitive programs (Advocate Christ, USC, Carolinas, etc.) won't pay much attention to you if you don't have impressive stats. Take a look at the 2014 charting outcomes of the match in order to figure out the stats of those matching (and not) into EM.

Thanks! I spoke to quite a few people (and correct me if I am wrong) but the majority consensus is that the first two year grades don't matter too much. I realize doing well in Step 1 and 2 is important as well as my clinical rotation grades. What I more so wanted to know is if it would benefit to spend time doing research or would it be better to spend that time shadowing and doing community work. I read the charting outcomes (thanks!) but if anyone has gotten interviews in the competitive residencies what kind of activities were they involved in and what helped them decide where to focus their time.

 

[WalkingCorpse]

Thanks! I spoke to quite a few people (and correct me if I am wrong) but the majority consensus is that the first two year grades don't matter too much. I realize doing well in Step 1 and 2 is important as well as my clinical rotation grades. What I more so wanted to know is if it would benefit to spend time doing research or would it be better to spend that time shadowing and doing community work. I read the charting outcomes (thanks!) but if anyone has gotten interviews in the competitive residencies what kind of activities were they involved in and what helped them decide where to focus their time.

Coming from a resident who screened applications for potential interviewees this year, I can say that grades for first and second year is so different across the board from school to school that I didn't use it too highly when evaluating applicants. Every school submits crap in a different format, some have letters, percentages, quartiles and what have you. It's kind of frustrating. I put way more weight into step 1/2 as well as LoR's.

 

[Elinor17]

Coming from a resident who screened applications for potential interviewees this year, I can say that grades for first and second year is so different across the board from school to school that I didn't use it too highly when evaluating applicants. Every school submits crap in a different format, some have letters, percentages, quartiles and what have you. It's kind of frustrating. I put way more weight into step 1/2 as well as LoR's.

Thank you! I figure that by the time we apply we will take our scores into consideration when choosing where we are applying, so if you don't mind me asking, is there anything else that made certain applicants stand out?

 

[WalkingCorpse]

In a good way:
- Multiple outstanding SLOE's (top 10%, etc)
- Great step 1/2
- Mediocre step 1 and jump to a great step 2
- As far as EC's it had to be something really unique to stand out to me; I feel like every applicant has been on some sort of mission trip, volunteered with their school's EM club, and held some elected club position.

In a bad way:
- Repeated years or extended education time (granted some explained this well in personal statement)
- Fail on any steps
- Painfully long personal statement (I stopped reading some at some point)

 

[thedoctor8706]

So recently I emailed a bunch of programs that I haven't heard from yet to express interest. Some email back saying they are full and cannot extend an interview. Some say I am sitting on a waitlist. And some others have not responded at all. So at this point in the cycle, is no news not necessarily bad news? Am I sitting on a waitlist at places that I haven't heard from, or do most not send you rejections?

I have been to 8 interviews so far, two more scheduled, and two confirmed waitlist invitations on top of that; I'm really hoping for a couple more interviews. When is it appropriate to call schools I'm still really interested in? Thanks!

 

[LocumOnly]

So recently I emailed a bunch of programs that I haven't heard from yet to express interest. Some email back saying they are full and cannot extend an interview. Some say I am sitting on a waitlist. And some others have not responded at all. So at this point in the cycle, is no news not necessarily bad news? Am I sitting on a waitlist at places that I haven't heard from, or do most not send you rejections?

I have been to 8 interviews so far, two more scheduled, and two confirmed waitlist invitations on top of that; I'm really hoping for a couple more interviews. When is it appropriate to call schools I'm still really interested in? Thanks!

How is that conversation going to go?

Applicant: Hi. May I speak to the program coordinator/director
Program: This is he/she
Applicant: I really like your program
Program: OkeyDokey
Applicant: ...

 

[thedoctor8706]

How is that conversation going to go?

Applicant: Hi. May I speak to the program coordinator/director
Program: This is he/she
Applicant: I really like your program
Program: OkeyDokey
Applicant: ...

Thanks... Thanks for that.

But seriously, it's getting close to that time of year when people cancel their excessive interviews, I've heard it's a good idea to contact a couple places you haven't heard from to ask about the status of your application. I'm not one of the neurotic kiddies desperately looking for hope, I'm just curious as to what's considered appropriate since I've been told it's a good idea.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Thanks... Thanks for that.

But seriously, it's getting close to that time of year when people cancel their excessive interviews, I've heard it's a good idea to contact a couple places you haven't heard from to ask about the status of your application. I'm not one of the neurotic kiddies desperately looking for hope, I'm just curious as to what's considered appropriate since I've been told it's a good idea.

You've gone to or going on at least 10 interviews. How many more can you go on before you're one of those neurotic kiddies squatting on more interviews than you deserve? That's been the prevailing argument in here.

 

[thedoctor8706]

You've gone to or going on at least 10 interviews. How many more can you go on before you're one of those neurotic kiddies squatting on more interviews than you deserve? That's been the prevailing argument in here.

Haha, well shame on me for not reading this thread more close before I posted. I had been given the impression that this year's magical number was 15, just because of how much more competitive it's gotten. I promise I didn't intend to come off in a bad way, was just looking for some friendly advice.

 

[laptopheater]

Haha, well shame on me for not reading this thread more close before I posted. I had been given the impression that this year's magical number was 15, just because of how much more competitive it's gotten. I promise I didn't intend to come off in a bad way, was just looking for some friendly advice.

So I spoke with my program director several weeks ago, and she recommended contacting programs as early as the beginning of November to express your continued interest in programs, since spots were already filling up fast at that time. She gets so many e-mails every day that most of the time they're overlooked unless there's a good reason for them to review your application again (e.g., you have no apparent ties to the area but have a significant other who will be working there, you have new scores, etc.). And, this should go without saying, but be polite and somewhat modest in the e-mails (some applicants did not actually ask for an interview but jumped straight to requesting interview dates - automatically deleted e-mail). Calling or e-mailing are both acceptable.

I think also earlier in this thread (or maybe some other thread) someone mentioned not bothering to update programs about new scores/SLOEs/grades, but a few program coordinators informed me that they only run the application search at certain times, so if your new info is uploaded into the system after they run the search, they will not get an alert at that time. One program coordinator even told me to keep updating programs with new info at places where I've already interviewed.

Hope this helps! Of course, if anyone else has heard something different, that would be greatly appreciated as well.

 

[thedoctor8706]

So I spoke with my program director several weeks ago, and she recommended contacting programs as early as the beginning of November to express your continued interest in programs, since spots were already filling up fast at that time. She gets so many e-mails every day that most of the time they're overlooked unless there's a good reason for them to review your application again (e.g., you have no apparent ties to the area but have a significant other who will be working there, you have new scores, etc.). And, this should go without saying, but be polite and somewhat modest in the e-mails (some applicants did not actually ask for an interview but jumped straight to requesting interview dates - automatically deleted e-mail). Calling or e-mailing are both acceptable.

I think also earlier in this thread (or maybe some other thread) someone mentioned not bothering to update programs about new scores/SLOEs/grades, but a few program coordinators informed me that they only run the application search at certain times, so if your new info is uploaded into the system after they run the search, they will not get an alert at that time. One program coordinator even told me to keep updating programs with new info at places where I've already interviewed.

Hope this helps! Of course, if anyone else has heard something different, that would be greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks, this is super helpful to me! I appreciate it!

 

[BoardingDoc]

those neurotic kiddies squatting on more interviews than you deserve?

This has been one of the more common themes here, and it's pathetic. If you got the interview, barring some outside influence helping you out, then you "deserve" that interview. Should you be sitting on it if you've already decided not to go? Obviously not. That said, I feel like the word "deserve" is better used in the context of all the people on this board who keep shouting "if you think you might not go to that interview, you need to drop it now because I deserve that spot!"

No... no you don't. If you did, you would have the interview offer already. I don't disagree with the request. I disagree with the obscene sense of entitlement with which it is so frequently presented. [/rant]

 

[Zebra Hunter]

I do think its silly to get angry at these people, but I've also not seen anyone state that they "deserve" these interviews. It seems like they're saying that these interviews could be going to someone that actually wants to go to the place.

 

[Ayybaybay]

If memory serves me correctly i don't think anyone was complaining/whining/saying that you don't deserve the spot and that the other less competitive applicants do deserve it...if that's your mind frame than im sorry that you have a chip on your shoulder (maybe you weren't loved enough as a child)...The main sentiment is that if you have interviews that your are holding onto just because you're too busy to drop them, or if you go on interviews with no intention of ranking the program than i think thats where a lot of the anger and disapproval is with. Congrats you are more competitive and you deserve first crack at all that comes your way (let me stroke your ego some more lol), but that doesn't entitle you to be a self entitled bloviating buffoon (not directed at anyone in particular fyi lol). For example I interviewed at a place that many would consider non competitive, and sitting beside me during the PD presentation was a student from an Ivy league school who was dropping all these names that she had and will interview at. That student whispers into my ear that she is not even going to rank said program but felt weird turning down an invite lol....that ladies and gentleman is what grinds my gears. No one said you didnt deserve that interview but to than say that you should collect interviews like little ty beanie babies for fun isnt right either, there comes a point where its almost greedy and counterproductive.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

If memory serves me correctly i don't think anyone was complaining/whining/saying that you don't deserve the spot and that the other less competitive applicants do deserve it...if that's your mind frame than im sorry that you have a chip on your shoulder (maybe you weren't loved enough as a child)...The main sentiment is that if you have interviews that your are holding onto just because you're too busy to drop them, or if you go on interviews with no intention of ranking the program than i think thats where a lot of the anger and disapproval is with. Congrats you are more competitive and you deserve first crack at all that comes your way (let me stroke your ego some more lol), but that doesn't entitle you to be a self entitled bloviating buffoon (not directed at anyone in particular fyi lol). For example I interviewed at a place that many would consider non competitive, and sitting beside me during the PD presentation was a student from an Ivy league school who was dropping all these names that she had and will interview at. That student whispers into my ear that she is not even going to rank said program but felt weird turning down an invite lol....that ladies and gentleman is what grinds my gears. No one said you didnt deserve that interview but to than say that you should collect interviews like little ty beanie babies for fun isnt right either, there comes a point where its almost greedy and counterproductive.

I'm pretty sure the complaints in this thread went far beyond people just sitting on interviews at programs they had no interest in ranking. Pretty sure you and others got pretty upset that anyone would interview at more than 10-12 programs and therefore deprive that person sitting on 4 from possibly getting another invite.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Haha, well shame on me for not reading this thread more close before I posted. I had been given the impression that this year's magical number was 15, just because of how much more competitive it's gotten. I promise I didn't intend to come off in a bad way, was just looking for some friendly advice.

You didn't come off that way. I just wanted to short circuit that thread of conversation before it came up, looks like it came back up anyway. Your plan is good. Keep it up.

 

[normtheniner]

Last interview for December was today! I didn't think this process would be this exhausting.

 

[Zebra Hunter]

Last interview for December was today! I didn't think this process would be this exhausting.

I feel ya bud, I just canceled 2 of my interviews in January because I can't take all this traveling.

 

[DoctorJ1001]

Hahah i just emailed two programs to cancel two of my interviews in January as well...Wasn't prepared for how tired and taxing it was on the body and mind to travel this much. I guess some people were right, there should be a freeing up of interviews come January for those of you on waitlists ...Good luck to everyone and merry christmas, happy hanukkah, and have a happy new years!!!

 

[EMdoc!!]

i imagine Jan 16 would be the last day anyone could possible expect to hear from a program(but i could be wrong)

 

[Ayybaybay]

Haha what makes you say jan16th. My last interview is the 23rd and technically people can cancel at any point if I'm not mistaken?

 

[noshie]

My last interview was set for Jan 30th and I had an offer into February for one place... Its like this process never ends.

 

[EMdoc!!]

I would expect a program to give at least a week notice for an interview on the 23rd (the 16th), if you are on a wait list then i guess any amount of time is fair game, there is the occasional February interview

 

[Ayybaybay]

That unfortunate moment when you finally get an email from your number 1 program that a spot has finally opened, you email to confirm 15 minutes later...and then you get a followup email stating that another applicant has already taken that spot :/, but will contact you if anything else opens up. Any thoughts or opinions as to what one should do next?

 

[SoyMilk]

That unfortunate moment when you finally get an email from your number 1 program that a spot has finally opened, you email to confirm 15 minutes later...and then you get a followup email stating that another applicant has already taken that spot :/, but will contact you if anything else opens up. Any thoughts or opinions as to what one should do next?

That really sucks dude. I had that happen to me (though at number 15 program) and I emailed back within 1 minute... I feel like they just choose between the positive responses. Similar to girls on tinder

 

[Ayybaybay]

Hahahaa that tinder comment had me laughing . It sucks royally, and it's funny that even 15 min is too slow to respond to these emails. I guess the phone is not leaving my side and that something else opens up in the next two weeks (fingers crossed).

 

[GTP]

Hey guys this question is directed at pgy1s but I'd like to hear from anyone with useful anecdotes. I only have one interview left. I've decided what my top five programs will be. Unfortunately, out of the 5, I have noticed that I have only received emails from the #4 residency program (I also rotated there so it almost doesn't count). The other place I've decided will be in my top 5 is my next interview. It's kind of concerning because i only seem to be getting attention from my mid to bottom programs. Has anyone matched at a place where they didn't make contact ? It's hard to tell if they are not interested or if they just don't contact anyone as a rule.

 

[noshie]

Hey guys this question is directed at pgy1s but I'd like to hear from anyone with useful anecdotes. I only have one interview left. I've decided what my top five programs will be. Unfortunately, out of the 5, I have noticed that I have only received emails from the #4 residency program (I also rotated there so it almost doesn't count). The other place I've decided will be in my top 5 is my next interview. It's kind of concerning because i only seem to be getting attention from my mid to bottom programs. Has anyone matched at a place where they didn't make contact ? It's hard to tell if they are not interested or if they just don't contact anyone as a rule.

I am guessing that you are talking about the after interview emails from programs... My boyfriend applied EM last year and his number one sent him an email around February. The email was actually pretty personalized, so he felt that it was sent directly to him. He ended up matching into his #2, which never really sent him anything after the interview. I feel like some programs have decided to send things out (which may or may not be sent to everyone) and some maybe feel like its too much trouble. I honestly wouldn't put too much thought into analyzing what it means. It won't matter if they contact you or not, you could still be anywhere on their list. Plus even if you are in the middle of their list, matching with them depends on what all the other applicants rank them as.

 

[normtheniner]

Hey guys this question is directed at pgy1s but I'd like to hear from anyone with useful anecdotes. I only have one interview left. I've decided what my top five programs will be. Unfortunately, out of the 5, I have noticed that I have only received emails from the #4 residency program (I also rotated there so it almost doesn't count). The other place I've decided will be in my top 5 is my next interview. It's kind of concerning because i only seem to be getting attention from my mid to bottom programs. Has anyone matched at a place where they didn't make contact ? It's hard to tell if they are not interested or if they just don't contact anyone as a rule.

I haven't heard from any of the places I interviewed at... I've had places reply to email thank you emails with "we think you'd be a good fit here" responses... but no messages where the program initiated. I thought these didn't start occurring until late Jan/Feb?

 

[GTP]

I haven't heard from any of the places I interviewed at... I've had places reply to email thank you emails with "we think you'd be a good fit here" responses... but no messages where the program initiated. I thought these didn't start occurring until late Jan/Feb?

Oh I'm talking about people not replying period. But I'll wait till February to worry then. Thanks

 

['murica]

Oh I'm talking about people not replying period. But I'll wait till February to worry then. Thanks

You seem to worry about a lot of things. Like all the time. You will be okay. It would probably hurt you to send the PDs multiple needy emails. It's been suggested in this forum that those emails don't matter much, at most places anyways.

 

[GTP]

You seem to worry about a lot of things. Like all the time. You will be okay. It would probably hurt you to send the PDs multiple needy emails. It's been suggested in this forum that those emails don't matter much, at most places anyways.

You are right about me worrying. But my situation is different from the average applicant. The most amount of emails I've sent to one PD is 2. But i won't send any more emails anymore unless they initiate first.

 

[Ayybaybay]

You now know that we have to ask why is your situation different than the average applicant ?! Lol.