Emergency Medicine PGY-2, PGY-3 positions available!!!!

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elio

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West Virginia University Hospital is looking for a qualified PGY-2 and a PGY-3 resident for 2006-2007. If you have been looking to change programs or could be considered qualified for an advanced position, check it out. There may also be an approved PGY-1 spot available outside of the match because it would be approved too late to include in the quota programs have to submit at the end of January (approval is pending). It is a great program located in a unique setting. Boating, biking, outdoor activities abound in and around Morgantown. Combine this with an excellent salary and low cost of living, as well as friendly residents, a great program director, and possibilities for moonlighting beginning second year, and you've got a recipe for a great 1-2 years. Check the program out at:

http://www.hsc.wvu.edu/som/em/.

Good luck!
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elio said:
West Virginia University Hospital is looking for a qualified PGY-2 and a PGY-3 resident for 2006-2007. If you have been looking to change programs or could be considered qualified for an advanced position, check it out. There may also be an approved PGY-1 spot available outside of the match (approval is pending).It is a great program located in a unique setting. Boating, biking, outdoor activities abound in and around Morgantown. Combine this with an excellent salary and low cost of living, as well as friendly residents, a great program director, and possibilities for moonlighting beginning second year, and you've got a recipe for a great 1-2 years. Check the program out at:

http://www.hsc.wvu.edu/som/em/.

Good luck!
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And to think I never heard from WVU...... At this point I am glad I didn't...looks like they are losing more people than Texas is losing deathrow inmates.
 
Yep I never heard from them either.. Weird.. What r they doing in morgantown? Iguess the Fball and BBall teams are good but what happened to my app?
 
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Elio,
can you shed some light onto the "why" behind this situation?
I was really looking into WVU (based only on location), but now i'm a bit worried about the program? open spots and no love to some of SDNs best EM candidates? There must be an explination!? :confused:
Thanks for the info
streetdoc
 
First off, there is only one spot open in each upper level class, and neither is open because of any resident dissatisfaction with the program, but for very personal reasons.
As for those who didn't get interviews and are now in other programs I can only say that I also didn't receive interviews many places I applied, but if I had this opportunity and I was somewhere else I would jump on it. Also, if you didn't rotate somewhere, you know little about the program. If you didn't interview, you would know even less.
West Virginia is a great place to be, both for the program and the amazing natural environs. I can't recommend the place enough and am very happy with where I am. To all who might be interested I invite you to decide for yourself through your own investigation, not based on a few off-hand remarks.

-elio
 
Elio, out of curiosity do you know how many people WV interviewed this year? I too never heard from them and would have loved to come out and learn more about the program for myself
 
Elio, I am not so much disappointed at not getting an interview but moreso by the fact that I still havent heard from WVU.. Seems weird..
 
EctopicFetus said:
Elio, I am not so much disappointed at not getting an interview but moreso by the fact that I still havent heard from WVU.. Seems weird..
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I'm over not getting the interview and not hearing from them. As I said in the interview thread not hearing and/or hearing late is a big pet peeve of mine but I'm at the point now where I don't care about either enough to be disappointed.
I am pretty curious though out of the three of us (who all interviewed at some very strong programs) why none of us heard from them at all. Maybe we just weren't what they were looking for. Who knows? (maybe elios knows)
 
Yep I guess I was good enough for Denver, USC, Harbor basically all the big name NY programs, Indiana etc... maybe they were looking for something else. IMO it is just a rude thing to do.. Just tell me "hey, you arent what we are looking for" thats cool.. But I took the time and $$ to apply the least they could do is send me a response..
 
I'm very interested in WVU, and a lot of other places too, but I can't rotate at all of them...I guess I'm mostly worried about the fact that these strong EM candidates on here heard nothing. That would be aggrivating. For WVU to not "show love," or even respect, to the interviewees by sending a rejection/invitation to candidates, it seems in poor taste for them to now expect a candidate to join the program. I agree with ectopic, just weird...where are their manners?
streetdoc
--still planning on applying to WVU, but won't hold my breath!
 
Maybe they interviewed someone from SDN this yr..Who knows.. Im not saying the program is bad or anything cause I dont know.. Im just saying they should at least send me a form rejection letter like the others..
 
Did anyone apply/interview/hear ANYTHING from WVU?
thanks,
streetdoc
 
EctopicFetus said:
Yep I never heard from them either.. Weird.. What r they doing in morgantown? Iguess the Fball and BBall teams are good but what happened to my app?
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funny I'm not the greatest applicant, but didnt' hear from them either. Thought it was cause of my application. I even sent them updates and my EM course evaluations and stuff, never got ANY replies from them.
 
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You know it really ticked me off for a few weeks not hearing from them at all, but I got over it until you started this thread. I just find it somewhat offensive that your program comes on to SDN and tries to recruit for a potential PGY1 spot outside the match when you have a stack of apps from extremely qualified applicants on someone's desk that would have loved to have come for an interview. I am not pointing any fingers but lets get real here, its WVU, not Carolinas, not Cinci, and not Indy. I was not interested because I felt it was the absolute best program but instead because my wife comes from a couple hours outside Morgantown, and I thought the small city feel and awesome WV people would be great to work with. Your program is normally one that is very DO friendly as well, which makes this even more a strange occurrence. I am not one to toot my own freaking horn very often because I personally believe stats mean very little in making a doctor. But hell dude, was a 232/94, and a 262/99 on the boards just not good enough for the great state of WVU? Or was it my crappy class rank of 2 out of 124? Or perhaps it was having been in the medical profession for over a decade at nearly every level below that of a physician? I guess they didn't want to break bad habits or something of the like. My suggestion is that you shoot your PD an email and ask them to take a look at this thread. Something tells me they will be surprised and that some seriously weak link in your application screening process dropped the ball...bad! I specifically remember back in the "interviews offered" thread where literally for weeks on end no one was hearing from WVU. Not a decline, not an invite, nothing but a dry DRE. And now they want to fill a potential empty intern spot. I think someone is sniffing some dental amalgam or something.
 
JackBauERfan said:
funny I'm not the greatest applicant, but didnt' hear from them either. Thought it was cause of my application. I even sent them updates and my EM course evaluations and stuff, never got ANY replies from them.
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I think for WVU not to have a bad wrap next year they are going to have to send someone with some authority onto SDN and explain things. Of course they don't have to, but if they are smart they will. This gives every program a bad name unfortunately. I believe the profession is only as strong as its weakest program. I'll tell you straight up, when Dr. Harwood came on here from Christ in Chicago to clear up the whole Peds fiasco, it showed utter class and courtesy. And Christ's reputation was nothing but stronger because of it. Hopefully someone from WVU will do the same.

I even mentioned in my PS that I had been stationed in the service only a couple of hours outside Morgantown and loved coming to WV for caving expeditions. I even mentioned my wife being from near there and how it would be nice to go back. So it wasn't for a lack of ties to that part of the world. I just don't get it. And please, don't anyone come on here and give the speech about how sometimes for strange reasons programs don't interview all qualified candidates...blah freaking blah. I know many a super strong candidate this year in my same shoes and I refrained from bringing this up because there was no good way to do it. The OP's thread though unfortunately started this and I think they will not have to be the ones to finish it.
 
corpsmanUP said:
I think for WVU not to have a bad wrap next year they are going to have to send someone with some authority onto SDN and explain things. Of course they don't have to, but if they are smart they will. This gives every program a bad name unfortunately. I believe the profession is only as strong as its weakest program. I'll tell you straight up, when Dr. Harwood came on here from Christ in Chicago to clear up the whole Peds fiasco, it showed utter class and courtesy. And Christ's reputation was nothing but stronger because of it. Hopefully someone from WVU will do the same.

I even mentioned in my PS that I had been stationed in the service only a couple of hours outside Morgantown and loved coming to WV for caving expeditions. I even mentioned my wife being from near there and how it would be nice to go back. So it wasn't for a lack of ties to that part of the world. I just don't get it. And please, don't anyone come on here and give the speech about how sometimes for strange reasons programs don't interview all qualified candidates...blah freaking blah. I know many a super strong candidate this year in my same shoes and I refrained from bringing this up because there was no good way to do it. The OP's thread though unfortunately started this and I think they will not have to be the ones to finish it.
Click to expand...

Beleive me, my grades/board scores not even close to that, and I'm not DO (u of alabama), still didn't make the cut haha. So, me and you are pretty much like bruce willis in unbreakable and mr. glass --total opposites haha. i would have interviewed there too. don't think I got a rejection either....but you know with so many you start losing count haha.
 
What's the consensus about the program? Is it good/bad, middle of the road? What are its strengths and weaknesses?

This may be a consideration for me if CMS shuts down our hospital after their inspection this month.
 
I just looked that their website (which could be better BTW) and they claim R2 and R3s are working 16-18 12-hour shifts a month!

No wonder they're losing residents!

We do 13 12-hour shifts a month, and that's more than ample.
 
I interviewed at WVU. Seemed like a standard EM program--nothing too great or too bad either. You know, it's accredidated (sp?) for a reason: you'll get EM certified there.

I think they mentioned something about losing a resident recently, because she fell in love with someone who lived in NY, I think, and she had to move up there.

Honestly, that's a reason that I greatly respect, and I very much respect WVU for being supportive of that resident's decision to leave. It shows that there are indeed some more people than just me who view personal life as #1, far above anything else--even medicine.

And as far as shifts, I don't think they're too excessive at WVU--it's roughly the same schedule at many other programs I interviewed at. Sure, the trend is now to hybridize the schedule and reduce the hrs, and I'm all for it, but I think WVU is going to stay with their schedule.

One more thing: I interviewed at some great places, and got rejected from some ho-hum places. I'm pretty sure this whole application process is about much more than the bottom-line scores and credentials--it could even be due to geographic reasons, family, school-networking, and a bunch of other things you can't control. At least that's what I tell myself!
 
DocBrown said:
I interviewed at WVU. Seemed like a standard EM program--nothing too great or too bad either. You know, it's accredidated (sp?) for a reason: you'll get EM certified there.

I think they mentioned something about losing a resident recently, because she fell in love with someone who lived in NY, I think, and she had to move up there.

Honestly, that's a reason that I greatly respect, and I very much respect WVU for being supportive of that resident's decision to leave. It shows that there are indeed some more people than just me who view personal life as #1, far above anything else--even medicine.

And as far as shifts, I don't think they're too excessive at WVU--it's roughly the same schedule at many other programs I interviewed at. Sure, the trend is now to hybridize the schedule and reduce the hrs, and I'm all for it, but I think WVU is going to stay with their schedule.

One more thing: I interviewed at some great places, and got rejected from some ho-hum places. I'm pretty sure this whole application process is about much more than the bottom-line scores and credentials--it could even be due to geographic reasons, family, school-networking, and a bunch of other things you can't control. At least that's what I tell myself!
Click to expand...

I think WVU is great. One of the hardest things i've ever done is turn down an acceptance for med school there. The area is just awesome!

So, docBrown, what do you think was the secret to you getting interviewed? did you rotate there? write love letters to the PD? know someone? or mention WV in your personal statement? I'd love to be at WVU, maybe it's the next "hidden gem" program, but I plan to apply all over. The whole process of the match is a bit hap hazard, but they must base interviews on something!??

Nothing makes up for leaving an applicant hanging like seems to have happened to some on SDN. That worries me.
streetdoc
 
I also interviewed at WVU. The pd there said they were only interviewing about 60 candidates (only had 6 positions in the match...they were waiting at the time for approval of a 7th, but even if approved would not be in time for match). PD admitted to having a pretty high board score cut off. I also think that they like people who like outdoor activities..seems like all the residents there are involved in things like hunting, canoeing, skiing..etc. I was also told by the residents that any applicant from WVU (regardless of board score) also gets an interview. In fact, I met a WVU student who's wife is a ped's resident at WVU who only applied to one ER program....

As far as the program...thought it was a good program. The program reminded me a lot of Geisinger (which is where the pd did residency)...one difference is that when you fly at WVU it is a seperate rotation and you don't get pulled out of the ER.
 
my med school career has been less than stellar, except for a good step 1 (228). I had strong LOR's, and as someone else posted, I think they like people who are really into the outdoors--my PS was full of stuff like that. My life is full of stuff like that too, for that matter.

Nice program, but understand that Morgantown is VERY small. Probably half the population is made of undergrads, which is fine for me. Girls weren't too hot, though... :laugh:

But then again, I went to school at U-Florida, so I'm biased and spoiled.
 
DocBrown you know the FSU girls are better looking..:)
 
EctopicFetus said:
DocBrown you know the FSU girls are better looking..:)
Click to expand...

I've been to a few campuses too in my life, and would like to add in Auburn. Believe me, they are hot.
 
I believe the movie "Deliverance" was set in WV. The inbred banjo kid at the beginning of the movie still gives me the willies. Then there's the fat boy who squeals like a pig. I'm getting sick ...
 
DocBrown said:
I think they like people who are really into the outdoors--.
Click to expand...

I guess they thought my caving expeditions in the mountains of West Virginia were considered "indoor" sports. Who knows! :rolleyes:
 
punkmd said:
I believe the movie "Deliverance" was set in WV. The inbred banjo kid at the beginning of the movie still gives me the willies. Then there's the fat boy who squeals like a pig. I'm getting sick ...
Click to expand...

Nope, georgia.
kind of sad that you think of deliverance when you think of the south...is that what people really believe these days???
streetdoc
 
JackBauERfan said:
I've been to a few campuses too in my life, and would like to add in Auburn. Believe me, they are hot.
Click to expand...
Ole miss has smoking women as well.. :cool:
 
Cut it out with the primadonna attitudes guys. Great candidates don't get interviews EVERYWHERE they apply, especially in EM.

I thought the WVU program was quite appealing, and I would be happy to match there. Who knows why some folks get interviews and others don't. Who knows why I was accepted to a top 20 private medical school, and not offered offered a spot at my home state school. Things'll all work out...just try and be cool while they do so.


Willamette
 
I thought deliverance was set in North Carolina, but I have no real idea.

Fine, I'll admit that FSU has lots of hot girls. But I'm putting UF at a very close second.
 
UF girls are bad.. different flavor from FSU though..
 
streetdoc said:
Nope, georgia.
kind of sad that you think of deliverance when you think of the south...is that what people really believe these days???
streetdoc
Click to expand...

No social commentary intended, just a little humor. You are correct about it being set in Georgia. I was surprised to see that because until your comment I truly did believe that obesity and family-bonding were revived after the commercial success of "Deliverance" in 1972.

Frommer's actually notes the well accepted yet apparently incorrect notion that the movie was set in WV. It also goes on to say that "For sheer value, a few states in the country can beat this one."

http://www.frommers.com/destinations/print-narrative.cfm?destID=3576&catID=3576010001

For the other "worldly" travelers on the forum, I recently had a very interesting trip through WV on my way to UVA for an interview. My wife and I took the kids on a tour of some of the newly renovated trailer parks and shanty mansions in the area. A double wide set in a backdrop of some of the most beautiful environ and scenery in the country - brought tears of gratitude to our eyes.
 
Willamette said:
Cut it out with the primadonna attitudes guys. Great candidates don't get interviews EVERYWHERE they apply, especially in EM.

I thought the WVU program was quite appealing, and I would be happy to match there. Who knows why some folks get interviews and others don't. Who knows why I was accepted to a top 20 private medical school, and not offered offered a spot at my home state school. Things'll all work out...just try and be cool while they do so.


Willamette
Click to expand...

Uhh perhaps you are missing the REAL point of what corpsman and I were saying. Heck I know I got interviews at places that are more "prestigious" than a number of places who rejected me. Thats cool I know people are looking for different things..

The real issue is at least giving us the courtesy of sending us a rejection. I think thats whats rude and thats where my and others people problems lie.
 
EctopicFetus said:
Uhh perhaps you are missing the REAL point of what corpsman and I were saying. Heck I know I got interviews at places that are more "prestigious" than a number of places who rejected me. Thats cool I know people are looking for different things..

The real issue is at least giving us the courtesy of sending us a rejection. I think thats whats rude and thats where my and others people problems lie.
Click to expand...


If you haven't heard by the middle of December maybe you should take it as a hint...maybe? I'm sure most of us haven't heard from a program or two, but that doesn't mean that those programs are run by a bunch of arrogant pr!cks, or that they somehow failed to recognize our inherent greatness. To go out of your way to disparage a program for such an "oversight" shows, if nothing else, bad manners.

Willamette
 
Willamette said:
If you haven't heard by the middle of December maybe you should take it as a hint...maybe? I'm sure most of us haven't heard from a program or two, but that doesn't mean that those programs are run by a bunch of arrogant pr!cks, or that they somehow failed to recognize our inherent greatness. To go out of your way to disparage a program for such an "oversight" shows, if nothing else, bad manners.

Willamette
Click to expand...

I don't really think its bad manners to get a reply of yes or no. If we are comparing to 'real job' interviews/job offers in non-medical world, I think you get a 'yeay' or 'nay'.

Money is being payed to apply to the programs. Unless there is some glitch in the computer, I wouldn't think that it is that difficult to send out rejections. Even if you are on the unofficial 'waiting list', you should get some kind of letter/email by now saying that you failed to meet their requirements. It shouldn't have to be 'assumed' if you don't hear by mid-December.
 
Willamette said:
If you haven't heard by the middle of December maybe you should take it as a hint...maybe? I'm sure most of us haven't heard from a program or two, but that doesn't mean that those programs are run by a bunch of arrogant pr!cks, or that they somehow failed to recognize our inherent greatness. To go out of your way to disparage a program for such an "oversight" shows, if nothing else, bad manners.

Willamette
Click to expand...

And its not just WVU, I don't think I heard from like 3/4 programs, even though I sent emails/letters updating and asking for my status. And I dont think it matters whether you are a poor candidate or good one, its just nice to let folks know one way or the other. Nice always wins!!!
 
JackBauERfan said:
I don't really think its bad manners to get a reply of yes or no. If we are comparing to 'real job' interviews/job offers in non-medical world, I think you get a 'yeay' or 'nay'.

Money is being payed to apply to the programs. Unless there is some glitch in the computer, I wouldn't think that it is that difficult to send out rejections. Even if you are on the unofficial 'waiting list', you should get some kind of letter/email by now saying that you failed to meet their requirements. It shouldn't have to be 'assumed' if you don't hear by mid-December.
Click to expand...


You're right, it shouldn't be that difficult to send us a reply. Especially when one considers all the work and $$ we put into the application process. However, the "manners" I was speaking of referred to the tone that "we" the SDNer/applicants were taking while expressing our displeasure about not hearing anything. What we hear or do not hear from the programs is largely beyond our control, but how we choose to respond is entirely within our control, and I maintain that you'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

BTW, the "stinkiest" of the replies happens to come from corpsmanUP, an SDNer I happen to like and have some rapport with. He's a go getter for sure, but sometimes his words get in front of his brain (a trait that he and I happen to share).

Willamette
 
JackBauERfan said:
And its not just WVU, I don't think I heard from like 3/4 programs, even though I sent emails/letters updating and asking for my status. And I dont think it matters whether you are a poor candidate or good one, its just nice to let folks know one way or the other. Nice always wins!!!
Click to expand...


Agreed. I too much prefer NICE.

Willamette
 
Willamette said:
If you haven't heard by the middle of December maybe you should take it as a hint...maybe? I'm sure most of us haven't heard from a program or two, but that doesn't mean that those programs are run by a bunch of arrogant pr!cks, or that they somehow failed to recognize our inherent greatness. To go out of your way to disparage a program for such an "oversight" shows, if nothing else, bad manners.

Willamette
Click to expand...

When did I disparage WVU? I didnt think they failed to recognize my "greatness". I think you would agree that if I spent my $$ applying the least they could do is fwd a form letter via email with my name in it.. Heck i dont even care if it said "dear applicant" rather than Dear ectopic.. just something to acknowledge the fact they looked at me.

I think the fact that 3 people on this forum had their "inherent greatness" overlooked with no response IS telling. Speaking of bad manners.. that is an example.
 
EctopicFetus said:
When did I disparage WVU? I didnt think they failed to recognize my "greatness". I think you would agree that if I spent my $$ applying the least they could do is fwd a form letter via email with my name in it.. Heck i dont even care if it said "dear applicant" rather than Dear ectopic.. just something to acknowledge the fact they looked at me.

I think the fact that 3 people on this forum had their "inherent greatness" overlooked with no response IS telling. Speaking of bad manners.. that is an example.
Click to expand...


You'll get no argument from me that not responding IS in poor taste. As for disparaging remarks (of which I did not accuse you specifically), one need not directly state "X-sucks" in order to belittle it.

Sometimes it's so hard to "converse" on a message board, what with the lack of body language, tone, and other non-verbal cues. I'm confident that most of us are decent people, and that we'd all get along reasonably well in a social or work setting. I just think that, especially given the recent non-medically-oriented traffic that the EM forum has been getting, we ought to be a little more careful with the manner in which we conduct ourselves. <off soapbox...after becoming slightly surprised that I got up there>


Willamette
 
EctopicFetus said:
When did I disparage WVU? I didnt think they failed to recognize my "greatness". I think you would agree that if I spent my $$ applying the least they could do is fwd a form letter via email with my name in it.. Heck i dont even care if it said "dear applicant" rather than Dear ectopic.. just something to acknowledge the fact they looked at me.

I think the fact that 3 people on this forum had their "inherent greatness" overlooked with no response IS telling. Speaking of bad manners.. that is an example.
Click to expand...


I agree with your assessment. Last year when applying I had rejections from 10 programs, and heard nothing from 5-10 more. When I called them they said "oh yeah, you've been rejected".

I think all programs participating in ERAS should be REQUIRED to send out rejection letters.
 
Ill just leave this portion of the thread with the comment that I even expressly stated that I have nothing good or bad to say about the program, just that I am wondering why they didnt get back to me.. For the record out of the 100+ programs I applied to only WVU and the 2 Akron programs never got back to me.
 
EctopicFetus said:
Ill just leave this portion of the thread with the comment that I even expressly stated that I have nothing good or bad to say about the program, just that I am wondering why they didnt get back to me.. For the record out of the 100+ programs I applied to only WVU and the 2 Akron programs never got back to me.
Click to expand...


I think that it's rude not to reply. Really.

Still friends?


Willamette
 
lack of any reply is really bad considering how easy it would be to send an email to non-invited applicants through ERAS... my understanding is that it is quite simple.
 
Willamette said:
I think that it's rude not to reply. Really.

Still friends?


Willamette
Click to expand...

Big hug for you..

hmm wait r u M or F?... If you are male we can do that handshake hug thing.. if female then its all good ;)

Believe me nothing on these forums makes me upset. I think the anonymity makes it worthless to get all mad and stuff. Its silly really..
 
:love: Big bucket of Texas love headed your way Will! No offense taken at all. I like that you can speak your mind. recall, we served so that people could do exactly that?

I would never ordinarily have responded with such criticism and I think we all should recall WHY the posts became so heated. It wasn't merely that they didn't reply, but now some WVU representative is on SDN recruiting for a potential PGY1 spot. It simply makes no sense and is actually offends me that they evidently have a small stack of extremely qualified applicants who they could pick up the phone and call about this spot, but instead they are recruiting once again. Its like when the drug reps come in begging you to write their new products and then they don't bother to make sure the pharmacy even carries enough of it!!! Cart before the horse kind of thing you know? WVU was the only program that I did not hear from...I looked back today to make sure. Maybe I got a little ugly a post or two back, but thats the nature of debate on a forum. If we were all sitting down with the PD at some local WV pub, do you think any of us would take this tone? Of course freaking not. I'd probably have my manners turned on "loud" and my sailor slang on vibrate!! :laugh:
 
Our program did the same thing, turned down 80 qualified applicants and then complain when they only match 1/3 of the spots. Firing the program director helped a lot with that problem.
 
I can tell you as a former applicant that I personally contacted several programs I was interested in after my ERAs application was submitted and complete, and I don't think I would have gotten an interview without showing interest in those programs. Every program is looking for their 'fit', just the way applicants are looking for a program to 'fit' them. I don't think it is correct for any program not to respond to you, I didn't know that was a problem for WVU applicants. Hopefully, that will be rectified in the near future.
Willamette sounds like a reasonable person, the process is random and things tend to work out. I know this is a place to vent and be anonymous, but all I wanted to do was make current residents aware of a great opportunity.

-elio

I would never ordinarily have responded with such criticism and I think we all should recall WHY the posts became so heated. It wasn't merely that they didn't reply, but now some WVU representative is on SDN recruiting for a potential PGY1 spot. It simply makes no sense and is actually offends me that they evidently have a small stack of extremely qualified applicants who they could pick up the phone and call about this spot, but instead they are recruiting once again. Its like when the drug reps come in begging you to write their new products and then they don't bother to make sure the pharmacy even carries enough of it!!! Cart before the horse kind of thing you know? WVU was the only program that I did not hear from...I looked back today to make sure. Maybe I got a little ugly a post or two back, but thats the nature of debate on a forum. If we were all sitting down with the PD at some local WV pub, do you think any of us would take this tone? Of course freaking not. I'd probably have my manners turned on "loud" and my sailor slang on vibrate!! :laugh:[/QUOTE]
 
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