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Emory vs Brown vs UTSouthwestern vs Dartmouth
- Thread starter look595
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I only interviewed at Brown of the places you're considering, so I know more about it than the others, but I will do my best to provide a fair assessment given what I know and what you've said is important to you! Very comprehensive listing of your pros and cons -- excellent job on that front! And really, amazing job at getting accepted to these wonderful schools. You definitely have a dilemma on your hands, but it's a great one!
Okay, so all that UTSW really has going for it that the others don't is the cost. If the cost difference is extremely large or if the money is hugely important to you, go to UTSW. If you can stomach a higher COA, go to another school. I have a feeling you'd be much happier elsewhere given the state of the buildings and city not being as LGBTQ friendly as the others.
I'd say rule Dartmouth out as well. It doesn't really have anything going for it that the other schools don't except for the clerkships in California, but you can do away rotations from any school at a California hospital that you're interested in matching to. Perhaps I'm undervaluing the importance of the location of these clerkships in your matching ability, but I'd say it's not worth it given the fact that it's in the middle of nowhere, has old buildings (something that you evaluated for every school, so it seems to be important to you), and doesn't have an LGBTQ scene. Dartmouth is not more prestigious in my eyes than any of the other three, so you're not missing anything there either FWIW.
So assuming that you're able to deal with a higher cost, your choice comes down to Emory vs Brown.
If you're super interested in global health research, it seems crazy to turn Emory down for the factors that you mentioned -- huge research opportunities, proximity to CDC, etc. Additionally, I don't think that the non-recorded-lectures should make you question the entire Emory administration. Perhaps they just feel that students learn better in class, and there hasn't been massive disapproval from the student body. I don't know that you can generalise the admin's willingness to support students from this single, albeit frustrating and inconvenient, drawback. As for the vibe, can you go to second look weekend in order to confirm your feelings on this? Perhaps if you meet more students and faculty and spend more time on campus, you'll get a stronger sense for how you'd fit in with the student culture.
Brown seems like a great fit for you, though. Providence is very liberal and you seem like you'd fit in great there, and Brown (excluding PLME students) is filled with a vast majority of non-traditional students. When I interviewed, I was literally the only traditional student there, and some current students told me that only 2-3 traditional students matriculate every year (again, excluding PLME). If this is something of great concern to you, Brown has it covered! I also think that Brown does have a good reputation -- I'm not sure if it's on par with Emory or UTSW, though I personally wouldn't differentiate the three all that much, but it's certainly not a slouch school. As far as research opportunities, I got the impression that there were plenty... Also, Providence is 45-60 minutes from Boston, so if you really wanted to do something at a bigger institution, or just experience a larger city, you could easily drive there.
I'm torn between Emory and Brown for you. My gut says you'd be happiest at Brown, as long as you're willing to face the additional cost as opposed to ultra-cheap UTSW and turn down the possible prestige/definite global health opportunities that come with Emory.
Good luck! Keep us posted!
Okay, so all that UTSW really has going for it that the others don't is the cost. If the cost difference is extremely large or if the money is hugely important to you, go to UTSW. If you can stomach a higher COA, go to another school. I have a feeling you'd be much happier elsewhere given the state of the buildings and city not being as LGBTQ friendly as the others.
I'd say rule Dartmouth out as well. It doesn't really have anything going for it that the other schools don't except for the clerkships in California, but you can do away rotations from any school at a California hospital that you're interested in matching to. Perhaps I'm undervaluing the importance of the location of these clerkships in your matching ability, but I'd say it's not worth it given the fact that it's in the middle of nowhere, has old buildings (something that you evaluated for every school, so it seems to be important to you), and doesn't have an LGBTQ scene. Dartmouth is not more prestigious in my eyes than any of the other three, so you're not missing anything there either FWIW.
So assuming that you're able to deal with a higher cost, your choice comes down to Emory vs Brown.
If you're super interested in global health research, it seems crazy to turn Emory down for the factors that you mentioned -- huge research opportunities, proximity to CDC, etc. Additionally, I don't think that the non-recorded-lectures should make you question the entire Emory administration. Perhaps they just feel that students learn better in class, and there hasn't been massive disapproval from the student body. I don't know that you can generalise the admin's willingness to support students from this single, albeit frustrating and inconvenient, drawback. As for the vibe, can you go to second look weekend in order to confirm your feelings on this? Perhaps if you meet more students and faculty and spend more time on campus, you'll get a stronger sense for how you'd fit in with the student culture.
Brown seems like a great fit for you, though. Providence is very liberal and you seem like you'd fit in great there, and Brown (excluding PLME students) is filled with a vast majority of non-traditional students. When I interviewed, I was literally the only traditional student there, and some current students told me that only 2-3 traditional students matriculate every year (again, excluding PLME). If this is something of great concern to you, Brown has it covered! I also think that Brown does have a good reputation -- I'm not sure if it's on par with Emory or UTSW, though I personally wouldn't differentiate the three all that much, but it's certainly not a slouch school. As far as research opportunities, I got the impression that there were plenty... Also, Providence is 45-60 minutes from Boston, so if you really wanted to do something at a bigger institution, or just experience a larger city, you could easily drive there.
I'm torn between Emory and Brown for you. My gut says you'd be happiest at Brown, as long as you're willing to face the additional cost as opposed to ultra-cheap UTSW and turn down the possible prestige/definite global health opportunities that come with Emory.
Good luck! Keep us posted!
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All great options. I really think its just regional differences mostly. If you think you 'd like to match in the southeast I know Emory has a great reputation there. I'm sure the same goes for UT southwestern in Texas. Brown and Dartmouth are nice too but perhaps more overshadowed by bigger medical facilities in New England. My vote is Emory.
Edit: After re-reading your post it sounds like you want to go Brown. If the money difference isn't huge then I would say go for it. Definitely wouldn't have trouble matching back to CA from any of these though.
Edit: After re-reading your post it sounds like you want to go Brown. If the money difference isn't huge then I would say go for it. Definitely wouldn't have trouble matching back to CA from any of these though.
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Hi @look595, congratulations on your choices. I didn't interview at any of these schools, and I think there could be a strong case to be made for several of them...but I voted for Brown. I rarely vote in these polls, but it just sounds right for you. (Unless the cost makes UTSW the only feasible option, in which case, no argument here.) @sunflower18 made the case well:
When I look at your list of cons for Brown, except for the cold and the cost, all are only cons in comparison to Emory and UTSW.
I just want to add a sort of rationalization that I came up with for Brown in reading your post. Rationalization isn't as good as reasoning, but it's how most of us really operate in real life. 😉
When I look at your list of cons for Brown, except for the cold and the cost, all are only cons in comparison to Emory and UTSW.
None of the them are truly weaknesses. I doubt that Brown is weak in research or clinical opportunities. And as for reputation, I would be surprised if going to Brown would limit your options. My point is, you don't sound like you would end up feeling poorly served by Brown. If you went there, I don't think that you'd dream about Grady or Parkland, awesome as those places are, because you'd be satisfied in Providence. What do you think about that?
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I'm not a student but I live 30 min from UTSW. Oaklawn is down the street and that area is huge for the LGBTQ community. So if that's your main concern, don't worry about the immediate area. However as a Texas native from Plano... Texas is certainly a lot more conservative than you're accustom to. But again, don't let that alone deter you because there are good pockets near campus.
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(another ms3 @ utsw, i also have not visited the other schools on your list) you have put together a very thoughtful list of pros and cons. in general i would favor the objective things - cost being the most objective, followed by national prestige. location seems very important to you and i suppose a city you think you like better could be worth >$100k lifetime, but people tend to adapt well to locations - i did when i moved to dallas after never having lived in texas. as an ms3 now i would feel very silly having paid more for a location that i guessed to be better 3 years ago. location may matter more to you than it did to me though.
some of the things that you list such as newness of facilities, diversity of student body, global health programs etc imo are more you being swept up by good marketing campaigns - i think you are overvaluing them. i bet you can find whatever research or global health opportunity you like at any of those places. and will a newer lecture hall really make the lecture better, or prettier study space make you smarter? at least utsw gives you your own desk (most places don't) if you want to use it. diversity of patients seems more important for a student than the actual student body, no? personally i wouldn't pay more money just to have more diverse classmates around me. and i would find it very difficult (if not impossible) to judge how friendly a campus is based on the interview day - that is such a small snippet of the school. i'm not saying you should ignore these things, just keep the big picture in mind and decide what really is most important to you.
your point about being a guinea pig is interesting. i am unsure if this would affect your step 1 score - many other places do it this way and they do fine. ultimately i think the student makes their score, moreso than his/her school. being a guinea pig may be an issue for the first semesters of MS3 and MS4 years when the number of students in those rotations is temporarily doubled - just think of what an undertaking it must be for the admin to suddenly create 230-240 new rotation spots? something to ask the powers that be at utsw about at least.
some of the things that you list such as newness of facilities, diversity of student body, global health programs etc imo are more you being swept up by good marketing campaigns - i think you are overvaluing them. i bet you can find whatever research or global health opportunity you like at any of those places. and will a newer lecture hall really make the lecture better, or prettier study space make you smarter? at least utsw gives you your own desk (most places don't) if you want to use it. diversity of patients seems more important for a student than the actual student body, no? personally i wouldn't pay more money just to have more diverse classmates around me. and i would find it very difficult (if not impossible) to judge how friendly a campus is based on the interview day - that is such a small snippet of the school. i'm not saying you should ignore these things, just keep the big picture in mind and decide what really is most important to you.
your point about being a guinea pig is interesting. i am unsure if this would affect your step 1 score - many other places do it this way and they do fine. ultimately i think the student makes their score, moreso than his/her school. being a guinea pig may be an issue for the first semesters of MS3 and MS4 years when the number of students in those rotations is temporarily doubled - just think of what an undertaking it must be for the admin to suddenly create 230-240 new rotation spots? something to ask the powers that be at utsw about at least.
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It sounds like you really loved Brown and would be happiest there.
I think being close to your support network is a HUGE plus and one of the most important things to consider when making your decision. Also, it seems like you'd have an easier time making friends if you're spending time with other non-trads. I can't speak to Dartmouth, but I don't think I saw anyone older than like 22 and a half at a lot of other schools.
At the end of the day, you're clearly an exceptional applicant and will thrive academically no matter where you end up. That being the case, I think you should focus on where you will be happiest and not worry too much about prestige or the specific curriculum at any given school.
I think being close to your support network is a HUGE plus and one of the most important things to consider when making your decision. Also, it seems like you'd have an easier time making friends if you're spending time with other non-trads. I can't speak to Dartmouth, but I don't think I saw anyone older than like 22 and a half at a lot of other schools.
At the end of the day, you're clearly an exceptional applicant and will thrive academically no matter where you end up. That being the case, I think you should focus on where you will be happiest and not worry too much about prestige or the specific curriculum at any given school.
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I'm gay and going to emory and would appreciate some LGBT friends~ (lol)
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^^^ okay but if I'm being honest I think emory is the best choice. I didn't apply to those other schools because I absolutely must be in city / work with a diverse population. I also thought the people at emory were the friendliest of any of my interviews. Students were constantly coming up to me (not just the tour guides) during interview day and talking to me - which didn't occur at any other school.
obviously I'm quite biased, but I'm just giving you my personal perspective.
also I was one of the only "traditional" students on my interview day. "non-traditional" has become the tradition in my opinion.
obviously I'm quite biased, but I'm just giving you my personal perspective.
also I was one of the only "traditional" students on my interview day. "non-traditional" has become the tradition in my opinion.
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Wow! I am very pleasantly surprised with all the helpful thoughts from everyone here! Everybody does bring up very good and valid points to consider.
To provide an update, my current course of action is to schedule independent second looks with both Emory and Brown (I've already attended UTSW's MS0 Second Look). Although I won't be able to visit during their official second looks due to scheduling conflicts, I think being on campus and talking to students about my concerns is the best course of action. It seems like Dartmouth just might not be the right fit for me, so I'm leaning towards not attending its second look.
I do want to also clarify and echo that I'm being extremely nitpicky with these pros/cons for each school. These are all truly great choices, and I think I wouldn't be able to go wrong with any one of these schools. For example, while Dallas is relatively more conservative than Providence and Atlanta, its not enough for me not to choose going there. In fact, I was lucky enough to be taken out to Oaklawn, the LGBTQ district of Dallas, by a helpful and amazing MS4 at UTSW during MS0 Second Look, and that really assuaged my concerns about being able to feel comfortable in Dallas and UTSW from a diversity perspective.
To provide an update, my current course of action is to schedule independent second looks with both Emory and Brown (I've already attended UTSW's MS0 Second Look). Although I won't be able to visit during their official second looks due to scheduling conflicts, I think being on campus and talking to students about my concerns is the best course of action. It seems like Dartmouth just might not be the right fit for me, so I'm leaning towards not attending its second look.
I do want to also clarify and echo that I'm being extremely nitpicky with these pros/cons for each school. These are all truly great choices, and I think I wouldn't be able to go wrong with any one of these schools. For example, while Dallas is relatively more conservative than Providence and Atlanta, its not enough for me not to choose going there. In fact, I was lucky enough to be taken out to Oaklawn, the LGBTQ district of Dallas, by a helpful and amazing MS4 at UTSW during MS0 Second Look, and that really assuaged my concerns about being able to feel comfortable in Dallas and UTSW from a diversity perspective.
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Congrats on your acceptances! It's awesome to have such an eclectic group of choices.
Most people have really outlined how great the options you have are, so I won't stress that too much (I also didn't apply to them, so I don't know enough to say anything with any degree of confidence). However, I am also a rising gay MS1 and I grew up in-between Providence and Boston. I also live in Boston now, and I can say the LGBT community up here is really active and pretty great. Also, you never have to worry about the general public being homophobic at all...most people here either actively identify as allies or just don't care either way.
If you have any other questions about the area feel free to PM me. Good luck! Also, the Boston gays affectionately refer to Providence as "ProviDANCE", so you know you'll have a good time there.
Most people have really outlined how great the options you have are, so I won't stress that too much (I also didn't apply to them, so I don't know enough to say anything with any degree of confidence). However, I am also a rising gay MS1 and I grew up in-between Providence and Boston. I also live in Boston now, and I can say the LGBT community up here is really active and pretty great. Also, you never have to worry about the general public being homophobic at all...most people here either actively identify as allies or just don't care either way.
If you have any other questions about the area feel free to PM me. Good luck! Also, the Boston gays affectionately refer to Providence as "ProviDANCE", so you know you'll have a good time there.
