engineering courses in non-science gpa?

[junkct]

Hey so everyone says that engineering courses aren't part of your science gpa... so does that mean they count in your non-science gpa? I've heard med schools look at your non-science gpa as well.

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[Confused2626]

This is not true at all. It is a common theme here on these forums to believe this, and either 1) those people aren't engineers 2) they haven't read the AAMC guide.

You are to classify your course as BCMP by CONTENT and not DEPARTMENT. Yes, there is an engineering classification, but as an engineering student you know there is a difference between a class like "Fluid Dynamics" and "Principles of Design". The former is to be classified as a physics course, the latter an engineering course. Just because something is in the engineering department does not make it an engineering course, ie design and computers...many engineering courses are upper level physics, chemistry, and biology courses with little to no engineering principles and should be classified as such.

 

[FlowLimited]

Hey so everyone says that engineering courses aren't part of your science gpa... so does that mean they count in your non-science gpa? I've heard med schools look at your non-science gpa as well.

For the most part, yes, engineering courses are not factored into your science (BCPM) GPA. You may successfully pass off some biologically relevant courses as BCPM, but there's no guarantee that it'll fly.

Medical schools look at three GPAs:

1) Science (BCPM)
2) All Other (everything else)
3) Total GPA

 

[236056]

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[atomi]

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[surftheiop]

Anything with an engineering course designation should be counted as an engineering course, which is not a science course. Read the AMCAS rules. Engineering courses do not count. This actually helps most engineering students to get a higher M/B/C/P GPA.

This cant be right, for example I took

CEE 304 (civil engineering): Uncertainty Analysis in Engineering

Which is just a calculus based statistics class, definately a math class just its offered by the CEE dept (professor isnt even an engineer, he has PhD in stats)

 

[FlowLimited]

This cant be right, for example I took

CEE 304 (civil engineering): Uncertainty Analysis in Engineering

Which is just a calculus based statistics class, definately a math class just its offered by the CEE dept (professor isnt even an engineer, he has PhD in stats)

Did AMCAS clear it? I would not be surprised if they didn't.

 

[Confused2626]

I would say to classify a course based on how you feel it was taught.

This is definitely the safest approach. If they don't like it, they can change it.

 

[Podalarius]

Anything with an engineering course designation should be counted as an engineering course, which is not a science course. Read the AMCAS rules. Engineering courses do not count. This actually helps most engineering students to get a higher M/B/C/P GPA.

This is definitely not the case. BCPM is determined by content, not department. I took several classes that were BCPM (solid/fluid mechanics, E&M, thermo, etc.) from the engineering department and some which were more design oriented (hint: the course name often has "design" in it, to satisfy ABET). I marked them accordingly, and AMCAS verified my transcript without adjusting those classifications (which was fortunate, since my engineering courses brought up my BCPM GPA).

 

[FlowLimited]

This is definitely the safest approach. If they don't like it, they can change it.

I think everyone can agree with this. There's no point in selling yourself short by not classifying it the way you think it should be. However, if you're trying to estimate what your BCPM GPA is going to be, you have to think about what is or isn't going to pass as "science." As it is, most engineering courses will not. That's just how it is.

 

[FlowLimited]

This is definitely not the case. BCPM is determined by content, not department. I took several classes that were BCPM (solid/fluid mechanics, E&M, thermo, etc.) from the engineering department and some which were more design oriented (hint: the course name often has "design" in it, to satisfy ABET). I marked them accordingly, and AMCAS verified my transcript without adjusting those classifications (which was fortunate, since my engineering courses brought up my BCPM GPA).

I don't think anyone would argue that those classes wouldn't be considered under your BCPM GPA. It's the variety of distinctly engineering-type courses that are heavily rooted in design, etc. that are suspect.

 

[atomi]

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[atomi]

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[FlowLimited]

I would. The engineering department teachers their own version of electrodynamics, solid state physics, thermodynamics, etc. for a reason! Unless they are cross-listed in the sciences, they are not the same classes!

You're welcome to disagree, but AMCAS sees things differently and that's what matters.

 

[junkct]

yikes, well my situation is such that I actually did pretty well in my engineering courses (4.0 in all courses taken from engineering depts). My BCPM gpa (not including engineering) is probably like 3.95, while my "All Other" gpa is something like 3.8... if I were to add my engineering courses into my AO gpa I think this pushes it up to like a 3.92 or something. Do you think it's probably more strategic for me to classify the engineering courses as "Engineering" on amcas, so that it goes into my AO gpa when med schools look at it?

Content-wise, I would say my classes are a 50:50 mixture of physics and design (except for statics and dynamics, which was almost purely physics-mechanics on steroids). In all honesty, I'd probably consider only like 20% of my engineering classes to be science classes... even our fluid dynamics course had a good amount of engineering in addition to the actual science. I'd like to add them into my AO gpa, but somehow I get the idea that AO connotes humanities/social sciences, so I figured it might look kinda weird to stick engineering in with those...

 

[Podalarius]

AMCAS has a category marked engineering course. If you are trying to say that a course with an engineering course designation is not an engineering course, then that is illogical. Mark your engineering courses as engineering courses, end of story. You risk getting your primary delayed if you try to argue classifications.

If you are unreasonable about what you classify as engineering, I guess you can run the risk of getting your primary application delayed, but I didn't have problems with delays when I applied (Class of 2013). I didn't take a single course in the physics department while at college, and AMCAS/med schools didn't seem to mind. Some schools cross-register courses and some have engineers take intro physics in the physics department, but that's why AMCAS wants you to make decisions based on content.

 

[atomi]

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[FlowLimited]

No, I am just stating what AMCAS says. They have an 'engineering' category for a reason. They will NEVER pull an engineering designated class and call it BCMP on their own. They often do it the other way though (where you designate an engineering class as BCMP and they pull it).

I'm saying that it's incorrect to assume that all engineering courses must be excluded from your BCPM. You should consider them on a case-by-case basis to determine how to categorize them, because AMCAS does not automatically exclude them. As you've stated, they probably won't re-designate an engineering course as "science." Therefore, you're better off categorizing the courses as you see fit, and having AMCAS change the designation if they so choose. This will not delay your application. It's just part of the process.

 

[dr zaius]

I'm saying that it's incorrect to assume that all engineering courses must be excluded from your BCPM. You should consider them on a case-by-case basis to determine how to categorize them, because AMCAS does not automatically exclude them. As you've stated, they probably won't re-designate an engineering course as "science." Therefore, you're better off categorizing the courses as you see fit, and having AMCAS change the designation if they so choose. This will not delay your application. It's just part of the process.

This is good news considering I made As in all engineering courses. Hopefully my science GPA will receive a little bump.

 

[ricebowl1988]

I just called the AMCAS people and they said to classify it based on content

 

[Brent8927]

Keep in mind that AMCAS will go over your application and make changes/corrections according only to the information they receive--which is your transcript. They don't know the content of the course, and most likely if your course has the word "design" in the title, they will probably move it, but it it has a science title, like thermodynamics, I would imagine they'll let you classify it as physics.

Engineering is really applied science, so it makes sense that most engineering courses won't count towards the BCPM GPA. But, what really matters is how AMCAS feels, and if they'll let it count, then that's what matters!

I agree with others that the best thing to do is list any course you feel can be considered physics, chemistry, etc., to do so, as the worst thing that happens is your application gets delayed and you'll have a correction mark next to the class on your application--neither of these is a big deal.

Of course, make sure that listing engineering courses as BCPM will help! In my case I only took a few engineering courses and they weren't going to affect my science GPA at all, so I classified them all as engineering.