Engineering Majors

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So I've been researching majors that I might find interesting. Originally I was either going to do a chemistry or Biology major. However, I have been advised against going that route. I know that a lot of people say that engineering classes are often very time consuming and lower cGPA on average. That being said however, I don't know much about Engineering classes. I was wondering if anyone could explain about their courses and the type of projects that they had to do/are doing. The engineering majors that seem most interesting to me are biomedical engineering, Chem engineering (which I hear is really challenging), and Engineering Physics. I'm still trying to keep my mind open to all types of majors, but I really don't have a great understanding of engineering majors, and would like some general information.

Thanks.
 
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DON'T DO IT.

(By the way, nice user alias - I volunteered with a gamma knife unit once before, and thought it was one of the cooler clinical volunteering experiences I had. It's also the only place where I encountered a real, specialized physicist outside of an academic lab or classroom.)

I was an environmental engineering major for the first half of my undergrad (it's closely related to civil engineering). This will vary school by school, but for us it was admitted that the engineering program was a five-year program that was crammed into four years. They accomplished this by making nearly all of our engineering classes two and three units. In theory, one unit is supposed to equal some number of hours required for a class. Those classes were easily worth four to five units on a time commitment scale, yet the paltry number of units meant that you were putting in a ton of work for something that wouldn't raise your GPA by much.

For basic sciences, I was required to take four semesters of math classes (ugh, overkill for medical school), four semesters of general chemistry (two gen chem, two ochem), two semesters of physics, biochemistry, and molecular biology (but not the first two semesters of general biology - these classes are "recommended" but not "required" for medical school).

The engineering courses varied in how interesting they are. Courses like statics and fluid dynamics were all math. There were some chapters where the textbook's explanations had more equations and numbers than they did letter-based sentences. Courses like wastewater management were interesting (perhaps partly because of their real-world application), but still involved a lot of math while drawing on concepts from chemistry and physics. Engineering microbiology was a course that I enjoyed, because it was a lot like microbiology (another course I liked), only more applied.

All right, none of that directly answers your question. I'd sum it up like this: you will need to really like math to not burn out of engineering (even biomedical engineering). You'll invariably have to take some classes for your major that don't directly interest you, whether because they're very academic (seemingly little real-world application) or because the subject seems unrelated to your major and interests. When you do, will all of that applied math bore you into a bad grade?

You'll also need to really like science, because many of the engineering classes draw on scientific concepts from other classes. That puts more of a strain on you compared to the standard pre-med who takes a class, aces the memorization-based exams, and then promptly forgets 99% of the material. Speaking of memorization, the approach to a number of my engineering classes was rather different from the standard pre-med classes. Rather than memorizing, you were taught for understanding. There were no equations to memorize, because you were expected to derive your own on many exams. It's very satisfying to be able to do that, but it's a different learning style and expectation.

Another interesting bit of info: engineering classes do not count toward your science GPA. For what ever reason, it's not considered a science degree by AMCAS or by the medical schools I've encountered.

Perhaps the biggest reason to avoid engineering (unless you want to go into engineering) is this: despite the fact that it's widely known that engineering is one of the most difficult courses of study you can achieve, admissions committees don't care. Hell, back when I was doing it, the national average GPA for engineering majors was 2.8. Despite that, I have not encountered a single medical admissions person who cares about that. I've encountered plenty who were willing to say that a candidate with a 3.3 and an engineering degree was less desirable than, say, a history major with a 3.7 (no offense to history majors). In other words, even if you do an amazing job and get a high GPA, you'll be regarded as equal to those who took an easier path. Self-satisfaction is worth something, but the payoff here isn't worth the risk, in my opinion.

I ultimately realized that I didn't think in math well enough to succeed, and changed majors in an effort to salvage my GPA. My semester GPAs shot up, but it didn't pull up my main GPA enough to make me competitive. I had to do a graduate program, and even then I struggled to get into medical school (although I made it). I'm angered by the fact that committees only look at the GPA as a number, and seemingly don't weigh other factors like the type of classes taken or how many were taken per semester. It strikes me as being very unfair to those of us who willingly pursued a difficult course of study, when we could have just as easily gone for a pushover major.

The advice against majoring in biology comes from the fact that it's a bit harder to distinguish yourself from other pre-meds, and that the current trend that's been running for a few years now is for medical schools to choose candidates from a non-science background. You can still make it in with a degree in biology. Chemistry is a fairly uncommon degree, from what I've seen.

If medical school is your goal, make life easy on yourself: major in psychology. It's a very interesting topic that can have parallels to patient care, and in my experience, the classes are easy (helped in part because they're so interesting). I've encountered quite a few medical students who majored in psychology, but I don't think it's become common enough to cause a backlash against it.

Take it all with a grain of salt, but I wrote up this huge essay because I feel strongly about this. I and others like me are wronged by the admissions process, I feel, because the system penalizes us for any poor performance without crediting us for the harder work load that we carry. I hate to see others going through the same thing that I did. It's not impossible to excel in engineering, but it's not a feat that's easy for most people. If you do choose this, I sincerely wish you the best of luck.
 
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Wow, thanks for the very detailed response:

Thanks for clearing up the area of study for me, it seems pretty rigorous. I love science classes, but I'm not to sure about math, I just took an honors pre-calc class and it was probably my favorite class of the year. I would love to pursue medicine, but I don't like where the health care system may go in years to come and would like to keep my options open. Again, thanks for the info.
 
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I would love to pursue medicine, but I don't like where the health care system may go in years to come and would like to keep my options open.
I went into engineering partly to keep my options open. I wasn't 100% clear on what engineering was all about, but it was the most challenging path available. It also seemed fairly versatile, given the wide swath of subjects touched on. And it is versatile: I have engineering classmates who went on to do law, business, medicine, and of course, engineering. I can't think of any who went on to do scientific research, but having gone through graduate school, I can't see any reason why engineering majors wouldn't be able to go there, either.

In my experience (and I emphasize that it's not a universal truth), people don't care about the difficulty of the program. If you can do well in engineering, many doors are open to you - but the same is arguably true for many other majors of study.

I like engineering and feel that it's an important field. If grades didn't matter, I might have even stuck with it. I don't mean to put anyone off from entering the field. It's just a poor choice if you want to go on to a program where your grades weigh very heavily (and more heavily than what you actually did).
 
Only do engineering if you really like math and are really good at it. Otherwise, your GPA will just be punished too much to make med school likely. Most of what you will be doing in engineering will be the application of math to science... there will be more math than science.

I did biomedical engineering in undergrad and it was a good experience. It did turn out to be much much tougher path than what my friends who did bio or chem had.
 
Thanks for all of the advice. I'm actually one of those people that love to be stressed and be challenged, so I'm fine with the tougher course load. I was also wondering about specific topics and what tests and/or projects were like. Thanks.
 
Thanks for all of the advice. I'm actually one of those people that love to be stressed and be challenged, so I'm fine with the tougher course load. I was also wondering about specific topics and what tests and/or projects were like. Thanks.
What sort of engineering are you looking to do? This will really determine what your workload will look like. Some things that are pretty universal are that you will probably be doing a lot of programming. Also at some point I would expect to have some sort of design project. (my school had this as a senior capstone thing while my brother went to a school that did project lab for the last three years) Design projects are both cool and kind of suck. Cool in that you actually get to design and build things, kind of suck in that it is a ton of work. (if you are doing it right you keep a journal of EVERYTHING you do for the project)

Tests and classes are also lots of work. Problem sets in upper level engineering classes can be very frustrating and it isn't like the math you do in high school where you can always find some example to help you if you get stuck. You really need to be able to think in math. (something I have entirely forgotten how to do now! seriously unless it is basic calculus or below I am now lost) Also engineering tests will sometimes have stuff you haven't actually seen before on them. (so while a science major will have talked about everything on a test in class an engineering major is expected to derive stuff on the test)

All that said I am going to second the sentiment that you should think long and hard about doing engineering if what you actually want to do is medicine. While being able to think like an engineer can be helpful in other fields you are training for a career (engineering) only to immediately give it up for a different career training program. Also it is harder to get the grades you need to get into medical school. But more importantly you need to go into engineering thinking that you want to be an engineer if you want to succeed.
 
if your wanting to get into med school, don't do engineering. Most people do horrible and it ruins their GPA. Do a major that you like but not too hard or easy. Again, all you need is a bachelors, doesn't matter what kind. Engineering is a type of degree if you WANT to get into the field, if your interested in medicine, there is no need to put yourself through those courses. No matter how hard your major is, they expect you to do well in it.
 
Don't let someone else tell you what to major in because if you end up with a 3.0, they won't come ahead to take the blame. You should look into the majors and pick one that you truely like. As far as science majors go, unless you really love history, english, engineering, etc., just take a science. At the end, its what you make out of the major and your gpa in it. Also, if you do decide to major in something other than science, remember to keep your science gpa high and you won't have any margin of error because the prereqs will be your only ones. Good Luck!
 
Several of my biomedical engineering and electrical engineering friends from undergrad were admitted to medical school, and several of my biology friends weren't. It's what you make of your major. If you love it and are willing to work hard at it, go for an engineering major. It's a great back-up plan as well--plenty of jobs for a BS in engineering with benefits and a good starting salary.
 
Don't let someone else tell you what to major in because if you end up with a 3.0, they won't come ahead to take the blame. You should look into the majors and pick one that you truely like. As far as science majors go, unless you really love history, english, engineering, etc., just take a science. At the end, its what you make out of the major and your gpa in it. Also, if you do decide to major in something other than science, remember to keep your science gpa high and you won't have any margin of error because the prereqs will be your only ones. Good Luck!
Let's face it: even if you choose a major that sounds interesting to you, not every class required for that major will be interesting. If a class is interesting then it's more likely to be easier for you to do well in, but there are plenty of boring classes that were easier A's than classes that I found interesting.

Ideally you'd choose based on what was interesting to you. If you just want to have a better chance at having a dominating GPA that also allowed you time to do a load of extracurriculars for an application booster, you're not doing yourself any favors by taking a course of study that is well-known to be more difficult. Maybe you'll be that one genius who bucks the trend; heck, I knew of a chemical engineering major who scored a perfect 4.0 for all four years of college (the only student in the entire class to do so). Stories like that are uncommon, though. And perhaps somewhat telling was the fact that at the awards ceremony for various achievements, nearly every student who received recognition for a high GPA also receives at least one other award for community service of some type, but that engineer's award was purely for the GPA.

It's your gamble.

Several of my biomedical engineering and electrical engineering friends from undergrad were admitted to medical school, and several of my biology friends weren't. It's what you make of your major. If you love it and are willing to work hard at it, go for an engineering major. It's a great back-up plan as well--plenty of jobs for a BS in engineering with benefits and a good starting salary.
We're throwing around anecdotal things here and don't have any actual statistical data of medical school acceptances by major (which would be interesting to see). For what it's worth, for every one engineering major in I've noted in the medical school that I did my graduate studies in, there must have been at least 20 sociology, 20 psychology, 20 biology, 10 chemistry... you get the trend? It's not an anti-science bias, either, because this school doesn't consider engineering to be a science. (Neither does the AMCAS, unless they've changed that recently.)

Is engineering a great backup plan? Sure, if you do well in it then engineering leaves you open to a ton of possibilities. The key words are "if you do well in it." I'm afraid that many people go into the major hoping for that versatility while they try to figure out what it is that they really want to do with their lives, and then find themselves performing average to well by engineering standards, which is poor to mediocre by any other major's standards. Instead of getting versatility, you get locked out of things - perhaps locked out of even more than you would have by choosing a different major and performing well in it.

The best thing that I got out of engineering was having the arrogance I developed about academic performance in grade school beaten out of me. Never before had I worked so hard, only to receive such poor results. I'm much less judgmental about people's academic performance for it, and I hope it will also keep me humble as I move on to medical school and life as a physician.
 
I went to a good engineering school for undergrad (everyone who passed had a job after graduation--we had internships and master's built into the program) Our school rarely had students graduate with over a 3.7 in our engineering major (2.5 and you had a job). About a fourth of our biomedical engineers went on to medical school (according to our guidance counselor).

I am currently at medical school with ties to a good engineering department/math department right now, so my sample is probably biased (20 engineering people, 10 physics/math that I know of and quite a few minoring in those fields). Also, we have a lot of engineers in our MD/PhD program (not sure if that's typical or not, though).

I think the AAMC has data on MCAT scores and acceptances by type of major (not sure if there's an engineering or not). Your experience may vary 🙂
 
What sort of engineering are you looking to do?

I'm looking at Biomedical engineering and engineering physics right now. Also, thanks for all of the information so far, it's been really beneficial. I'm also looking at physics as a major as well. I might just make a "Majors" thread, where us highschoolers could ask about any major and get information. Anyways, could anyone describe either of those two engineering majors?
Thanks
 
Orthopedic Surgery is among the most competitive subspecialties. It is also among the most lucrative. Knowing a lot of math (BME) can be helpful. I have seen quite a few ex-engineer orthopedic surgeons.
My sister was a chemical engineer, elected to Tau Beta Pi and had the highest GPA in the engineering department. It was only 3.2. She settled for dentistry.
I would recommend Psychology also. A 4.0 is doable. You have more time to prepare for the MCAT. If you ace that, we'll be talking top 20. If you don't do well or change your mind about medicine however, there is a dearth of good paying job. Social Services etc.
The best backup to me is Pharmacy. Although this is a year longer, you have a fair paying job. A lot of subjects are similar, so basic sciences is less challenging. You can moonlight while in medical school. You will also be a better physician. Most medical students only get a semester of pharmacology. Dispensing medication is most of what we do. Also you will look great on rounds with attedings.
Good luck.:laugh:
Good luck.
 
Just as a thought, if you do decide to go the engineering route, you might want to consider finishing your degree in five years instead of the standard four. As a poster above me mentioned, at a lot of schools, the engineering curriculum is actually a five-year curriculum crammed into four years (generally due to university policies that mandate that colleges need to offer four-year degree plans or things of that nature).

The benefit of the five year plan is that it allows you to space apart your engineering classes so you're not killing yourself every semester, plus it gives you more time to get involved in extracurricular activities, research, and clinical experience. Obviously, the drawback to this plan is that you incur an extra year of undergrad debt, but it's still an option to consider.

Although I'm on track to graduate from engineering in four years (with a double degree, to boot), I missed out on a lot of opportunities (both professional and personal) during my college career because I was simply overloaded with work.
 
YIKES!!!! REALLY???

That's like the second or third most important subject in medicine! It only slightly trails behind clinical exploration and pathology in my life experience actually working as a doctor.

As long as you don't become a surgeon, you can still do pretty well as a clinical doctor with average anatomy knowledge, but without acing pharm you're dead meat. Avoiding bad drug interactions and adequate dosage schedules is going to be 50% of your real-world job as a doctor.

Adverse reactions to drugs will also be a huge chunk of your real life job. I once had a patient that had horrible facial skin, went to over 5 or 6 different PCP's who would only give her more and more and more corticosteroid creams until she came to me. I took one look at her face and told her to get throw all of those creams away, just wash her face with neutral soap and come see me in two weeks. Her skin albeit not fully normal looking looked 1000 times better by getting off the stuff. Without having taken over 3 semesters of pharm I wouldn't have noticed she was getting a drug reaction.

If there is one subject you can't have enough of, it would be pharm.

I thought you were still a medical student?? 😕

Nevertheless, having 1y+ of studying pharm seems like a good idea compared to just having it for a few weeks.
 
YIKES!!!! REALLY???

That's like the second or third most important subject in medicine! It only slightly trails behind clinical exploration and pathology in my life experience actually working as a doctor.

As long as you don't become a surgeon, you can still do pretty well as a clinical doctor with average anatomy knowledge, but without acing pharm you're dead meat. Avoiding bad drug interactions and adequate dosage schedules is going to be 50% of your real-world job as a doctor.

Adverse reactions to drugs will also be a huge chunk of your real life job. I once had a patient that had horrible facial skin, went to over 5 or 6 different PCP's who would only give her more and more and more corticosteroid creams until she came to me. I took one look at her face and told her to get throw all of those creams away, just wash her face with neutral soap and come see me in two weeks. Her skin albeit not fully normal looking looked 1000 times better by getting off the stuff. Without having taken over 3 semesters of pharm I wouldn't have noticed she was getting a drug reaction.

If there is one subject you can't have enough of, it would be pharm.

Pharmacology is a one semester course during the Basic Sciences Core. Two would be more appropriate. Some is picked up during the Clinical rotations, like occasional lectures, with interesting cases and/or personal reading. It is also an USMLE section, so you are responsible for the material, whether or not you have been lectured/taught.

Some hospitals have a PhD pharmacist attend rounds. This is a great experience to share knowledge.
 
I'm actually one of those people that love to be stressed and be challenged, so I'm fine with the tougher course load.

Wow, really? Like, how totally weird, you must be a huge nerd or something. 🙄

Look, engineering is NOT for everyone. I felt the same way you do when I went into engineering and I later found that I just don't have the math skills. Finished a biology major, but the damage to my GPA was done.

You can say that you'll get a 4.0 no matter you what you do, and maybe that's true, but you had better be damn sure that it's true. A 4.0 in biology or chemistry is 10 times better than a 3.3 in engineering as far as getting into med school. Might not be fair, but nothing is.

Don't be cocky. Everyone loves a challenge. Bear in mind, though, that there are mechanical engineers who think biology is hard. Do what you're best at and if you're bored with your 4.0 then for god's sake don't screw it up. Wait till med school before you start complaining about how everything's just too easy for a hard-working challenge-loving genius like yourself. 😀
 
Wow, really? Like, how totally weird, you must be a huge nerd or something. 🙄

Look, engineering is NOT for everyone. I felt the same way you do when I went into engineering and I later found that I just don't have the math skills. Finished a biology major, but the damage to my GPA was done.

You can say that you'll get a 4.0 no matter you what you do, and maybe that's true, but you had better be damn sure that it's true. A 4.0 in biology or chemistry is 10 times better than a 3.3 in engineering as far as getting into med school. Might not be fair, but nothing is.

Don't be cocky. Everyone loves a challenge. Bear in mind, though, that there are mechanical engineers who think biology is hard. Do what you're best at and if you're bored with your 4.0 then for god's sake don't screw it up. Wait till med school before you start complaining about how everything's just too easy for a hard-working challenge-loving genius like yourself. 😀

I agree with what you said about an engineering major 3.3 vs a biology 4.0. It's true that the 4.0 will be in better shape, and it is not fair. I also agree with you about mechanical engineers thinking biology is hard. I know people that are amazing at chemistry and struggle with biology and vice-versa. The reason I was asking about this major was to clarify what type of work was done so that I could have a better understanding of the major and see if it would be a viable choice for me, and I would like to thank everyone for answering my questions.

However, your assumptions about my previous response are completely inaccurate. I know very intelligent people that crack under pressure and not so bright people do very well in stressful situations. One of the top students in our AP calc class got a 50% on our final, despite an insane amount of time studying. On the other end of the spectrum, I had a friend in chem class who maintained a B- average in the class, and he worked very hard to do so. Still, he was one of the best people to work with in labs because he is really good in high stress situations. I would never consider myself a "genius"; all I was saying is that I prefer a higher level of stress in my life than most people and wouldn't be turned off by the staggering amount of coursework that an engineering major entails. I would much rather have my work speak for me than ever talk about my intelligence.
 
Perhaps the biggest reason to avoid engineering (unless you want to go into engineering) is this: despite the fact that it's widely known that engineering is one of the most difficult courses of study you can achieve, admissions committees don't care. Hell, back when I was doing it, the national average GPA for engineering majors was 2.8. Despite that, I have not encountered a single medical admissions person who cares about that. I've encountered plenty who were willing to say that a candidate with a 3.3 and an engineering degree was less desirable than, say, a history major with a 3.7 (no offense to history majors). In other words, even if you do an amazing job and get a high GPA, you'll be regarded as equal to those who took an easier path. Self-satisfaction is worth something, but the payoff here isn't worth the risk, in my opinion.
Amen, brother. UNC's physics department cranked out grads with a whopping 2.6 average major GPA, but that still didn't make my 3.1 look good. If I had it to do over again and knew I wanted to go into medicine, I almost certainly would have taken a super-easy major to buoy my GPA. Work smarter, not harder.
 
Amen, brother. UNC's physics department cranked out grads with a whopping 2.6 average major GPA, but that still didn't make my 3.1 look good. If I had it to do over again and knew I wanted to go into medicine, I almost certainly would have taken a super-easy major to buoy my GPA. Work smarter, not harder.

In your guys' opinion what are easy majors?
 
I noticed that you said you took honor precalc. I have many friends that attend cal poly slo ( really prestigious engineering school on the west coast) and entered with 3 semesters of calculus completed via ap, but they still struggled to maintain a high gpa. IMO, if your goal is med school , avoid engineering classes like the plague.
 
In your guys' opinion what are easy majors?
This will vary school by school, but at my undergrad institution this was the list of easy majors (in no particular order): sociology; health promotion; psychology; communications; business (due to a generous grading curve).

There are probably other easy majors, but I either didn't hear of them or didn't think that they sounded easy. For example, history might not be terribly difficult, but I don't like the subject and dislike memorizing dates and people's names seemingly for the sake of it. (I recognize that there's more to history class than that, but you get the idea: it's a bad match for me.) On the other hand, I found psychology to be fascinating, and also feel that it has applications for medicine, yet I'm sure that it would be tedious and boring to someone else. If I could go back and redo my undergrad, I'd probably choose psychology as my major.

Within engineering, at my institution we looked down on the "systems engineering" majors because they were basically business majors, given all of the business classes that they took. Electrical engineering was regarded as the most difficult.
 
I'm looking at Biomedical engineering and engineering physics right now. Also, thanks for all of the information so far, it's been really beneficial. I'm also looking at physics as a major as well. I might just make a "Majors" thread, where us highschoolers could ask about any major and get information. Anyways, could anyone describe either of those two engineering majors?
Thanks

I got my degree in Biomedical Engineering, so here is a simple run down: There are 3 main areas for this major - electrical, mechanical, computer

Biomed on the electrical side take the same sort of classes as Electrical engineering majors in addition to organic chem & biology classes. The big difference is that when we learn how to design something we are thinking about how it can be used by/on humans. Things that Biomed (electrical focus) engineers work on are pacemakers, patient monitors, Xray/CT/Ultrosound machines, etc.

Biomed on the mechanical side take the same sort of classes as Mechanical engineering majors in addition to organic chem & biology classes. The deal with artificial joints, bio-compatible materials, ergonomic & accessibility devices.

Biomed on the computer side is the newest area. They focus on things like image processing of CT / MRI images and other things.

I'm not quite sure what type of major engineering physics would be.
 
I got my degree in Biomedical Engineering, so here is a simple run down: There are 3 main areas for this major - electrical, mechanical, computer

Biomed on the electrical side take the same sort of classes as Electrical engineering majors in addition to organic chem & biology classes. The big difference is that when we learn how to design something we are thinking about how it can be used by/on humans. Things that Biomed (electrical focus) engineers work on are pacemakers, patient monitors, Xray/CT/Ultrosound machines, etc.

Biomed on the mechanical side take the same sort of classes as Mechanical engineering majors in addition to organic chem & biology classes. The deal with artificial joints, bio-compatible materials, ergonomic & accessibility devices.

Biomed on the computer side is the newest area. They focus on things like image processing of CT / MRI images and other things.

I'm not quite sure what type of major engineering physics would be.

Some colleges offer a tissue/cellular engineering track as well.
 
I did mechanical engineering and now finishing up medical school. I would strongly advise doing an engineering degree. I had a 3.7GPA, got 10+ interviews, was a diverse applicant.

[1] Great major/great backup major
Med school admissions is a very competitive process. There is a good chance you won't get in. There is also a good chance you will change your mind during college and decide med school is not the right path. An engineering major will give you the most options and the best career opportunities.

What do you think happens to those Biology or Psych majors that don't get into med school and are now $100k+ in dept? I can tell you its nothing good because there are no jobs out there for them, and no one talks about it because its a sad subject.

[2] Engineering brings in paid internships
I paid for my medschool applications and interview expenses by working. The cost of applying/interviewing was around $3,500.00. The whole process is expensive.

[3] Type of Engineering
I would advise to go into broad engineering fields such as: computer engineerg; civil engineering; electrical engineering; mechanical engineering; chemical engineering.
Bio-engineering sounds exciting/cool but in reality it is a very small field and you will limit yourself and there are few jobs out there. In fact most Bioengineering jobs in the workforce are filled with engineers in other fields (mechanical/electrical/computer). Engineering physics is another small and limiting field.

[4] Don't worry about GPA
If you are doing well in your science and math courses in high school, you should be fine in college. Of course, if you go to a hard-core engineering school like MIT/Cornell it will be a lot harder. But if you go to a state school (e.g. Ohio State) it won't be that difficult.

[5] School size
I advise to go to a state school. You will have plenty of options to take science courses/labs for pre-med requirements. You will also have plenty of places to do research and volunteer since big schools have all of these resources. Places like MIT/Cornell/CMU are great engineering schools but they are too hard-core for what you are trying to do.
 
[1] Great major/great backup major
{sic} What do you think happens to those Biology or Psych majors that don't get into med school and are now $100k+ in dept? I can tell you its nothing good because there are no jobs out there for them, and no one talks about it because its a sad subject.
Very true

[2] Engineering brings in paid internships
I paid for my medschool applications and interview expenses by working. The cost of applying/interviewing was around $3,500.00. The whole process is expensive.
Great point. I made enough money co-oping that I was able to pay my tuition during the semesters I was in school

[3] Type of Engineering
I would advise to go into broad engineering fields such as: computer engineerg; civil engineering; electrical engineering; mechanical engineering; chemical engineering.
Bio-engineering sounds exciting/cool but in reality it is a very small field and you will limit yourself and there are few jobs out there. In fact most Bioengineering jobs in the workforce are filled with engineers in other fields (mechanical/electrical/computer). Engineering physics is another small and limiting field.
I have to disagree here. If you know you want to be involved with medical things, Biomed engineering is GREAT. When I was looking to hire engineers at my previous jobs, I would always prefer to go with them because our products were medical devices (a huge industry BTW).
 
It's unfair to label any major as easy without having completed the major oneself.

That said, life is unfair and I like to poke fun.
At my school, the easy majors are Communications, Sociology, Health management, and Business. Also Art-- my school tends to give its art kids a 3.7 and up for some regardless of talent. Those kids definety screw up the class rank (which I personally believe should be by program rather than class)
 
[3] Type of Engineering
I would advise to go into broad engineering fields such as: computer engineerg; civil engineering; electrical engineering; mechanical engineering; chemical engineering.
Bio-engineering sounds exciting/cool but in reality it is a very small field and you will limit yourself and there are few jobs out there. In fact most Bioengineering jobs in the workforce are filled with engineers in other fields (mechanical/electrical/computer). Engineering physics is another small and limiting field.

One thing about bioengineering, though, is that it typically overlaps with most of the med school pre-reqs, so you don't have to go out of your way to take additional science classes on top of your engineering courseload.
 
From what I've been told by physicians with engineering backgrounds, the problem solving techniques that are developed are in engineering really help you excel in the clinical/diagnostic settings.

Engineering tends to be harder at most schools, but a 4.0 is not an impossible task. My roommate during college was a ME who ended with a 4.0. He wasn't the most brilliant person in his class, but he was by far the most applied. If your willing to put in the time and effort, you can leave college with a high gpa and a useful degree that is easy to fall back onto if medicine doesn't work out.
 
It's unfair to label any major as easy without having completed the major oneself.
I disagree with this. If all majors were equally difficult or easy, the average GPAs from each major should be about the same. I can't find any nation-wide GPA breakdown by major across all colleges, but I did find one blog (ugh, I know, the things that we pass off as news these days) that examined GPA by major for an "unnamed elite liberal arts college." The lowest average GPA was in chemistry, at 2.76; the highest average was in education, at 3.36. That's a massive 0.5 difference.

One could always argue that the types of people drawn to each major account for the difference in numbers, but quite honestly, I don't buy that. Hell, aren't people who are drawn to the sciences supposed to be the "smart ones"?

An easy major to one person may be difficult to another - that is certainly true. But in general, there certainly are easier courses of study than others.
 
I agree with you. I was being sarcastically PC. I have 3 labs next semester. Thats 7.5 more hours of class time than my com buddies have. Am I jealous of them? Yes, they are having way more freetime/fun than I have.

Will they be making +100k in 6 years? Not likely.
 
Will they be making +100k in 6 years? Not likely.
I don't know... this sort of reminds me of a doctor who was collaborating with our lab. He was leaving the institution in order to join a private practice in another state. We talked about it and there were a few reasons, but one of them that came up, as he put it: 'it's kind of frustrating to find that the guys who were passed out drunk in the halls, the ones I had to step over on my way to an early morning lab and who were majoring in business, are making way more money than I am now as a full attending, and they were making that sort of money years before me.' Of course, it's no big secret that academic medicine is not where the money is at. (The specialty he was in was not one of those on the lower pay scales.)

I've also heard from some residents doing research fellowships that their buddies who majored in business are living the high life, making pretty good money, while they're living on their resident salary (which isn't so hot in my area relative to living costs) and paying back loans.

Which isn't to say that majoring in business is a sure-fire way to make loads of money, nor is it to say that doctors in general are poor. There are many other benefits to the medical profession besides salary numbers, too. But all around, if the goal is to just make a lot of money, I've concluded that medicine is a fairly crappy choice.

(For what it's worth, my goal is academic medicine.)
 
I would agree that medicine is a bad choice for purely making money. 4yrs undergrad + 4yrs medical + residency. Thats a huge time commitment and medicine isn't simply a money maker, it's a lifestyle. You better love the hospital, because you'll be there A LOT.

If it's your thing, then go for it.

If you're more into the money, I would recommend pharm. While your salary won't break 120k (unless you're industry or invest like a guru), it only takes 6 years to get there. Also, unlike business, you don't have to work your way up to that salary.

The job market might be faltering for it, the job might be boring, but if you can hack it, you can work your way into a comfortable living situation and an early retirement.
 
notice that biomedical engineering has the highest percentage of accepted applicants.

That's only because the sample size is smaller than the others. Also, do you want to be a biomed major and go through the hell Velocity warned us about?
 
That's only because the sample size is smaller than the others. Also, do you want to be a biomed major and go through the hell Velocity warned us about?

The sample size is still large enough for the percentage to matter. Your rationale makes no sense.
 
The sample size is still large enough for the percentage to matter. Your rationale makes no sense.

How so? That sample size is 4x smaller on average than the other sample sizes, which introduces problems of sampling error, which makes the process more aggravating especially when percentages are around ~10% of each other.

Even so, here's another proposition. Most pre-meds tend to be majoring in a science, such as biology, chemistry, or physics and thus you're more likely to see more weaker applicants in these fields simply due to the numbers. Most of these weaker applicants in biomed or chem would have been weeded out by the rigor of those majors vis-a-vis biology or another pure science. Hence, you have a higher percentage of higher quality applicants in biomed and chem-e than in the pure sciences.
 
How so? That sample size is 4x smaller on average than the other sample sizes, which introduces problems of sampling error, which makes the process more aggravating especially when percentages are around ~10% of each other.

Even so, here's another proposition. Most pre-meds tend to be majoring in a science, such as biology, chemistry, or physics and thus you're more likely to see more weaker applicants in these fields simply due to the numbers. Most of these weaker applicants in biomed or chem would have been weeded out by the rigor of those majors vis-a-vis biology or another pure science. Hence, you have a higher percentage of higher quality applicants in biomed and chem-e than in the pure sciences.

That's the point, isn't it? That biomedical engineering is producing higher quality applicants. Not that medical school committees are somehow biased towards biomedical engineers. Also, sampling error based on size would only begin to be an issue if the sample sizes fell under 100. That does not apply here.

An interesting study would be to compare the relative GPAs of different majors amongst accepted applicants.
 
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That's the point, isn't it?

Yes. But you didn't state it.

That biomedical engineering is producing higher quality applicants. Not that medical school committees are somehow biased towards biomedical engineers.

Yup. Or more specifically, weeding out the lower quality applicants.

An interesting study would be to compare the relative GPAs of different majors amongst accepted applicants.

It would probably come out to be around the same. And you'd have to factor in grade inflation, grade deflation, and what not.
 
It would probably come out to be around the same. And you'd have to factor in grade inflation, grade deflation, and what not.

I somehow doubt it would turn out to be the same. Despite what anyone says, I have a hard time believing that med school adcoms are not intelligent enough to recognize the difference in difficulty between an engineering major and a less challenging major.
 
Despite what anyone says, I have a hard time believing that med school adcoms are not intelligent enough to recognize the difference in difficulty between an engineering major and a less challenging major.

Nope. No extra consideration is applied to GPA, regardless of the rigor of the major. There are thousands of threads on this in the Pre-Allo forum.
 
That's the point, isn't it? That biomedical engineering is producing higher quality applicants. Not that medical school committees are somehow biased towards biomedical engineers.
It just means that self-selection is present. For example, I applied and made it into medical school (on the second try, mind you), but I changed my major to salvage my GPA. Statistically, I am not contributing toward the engineering pile's rate of failure or success. I've met a surprising number of other medical school students and applicants who have a similar story.

An interesting study would be to compare the relative GPAs of different majors amongst accepted applicants.
Back when I was an engineering student, it was claimed that the national average GPA for engineers across all schools and programs was 2.8. That was fairly low compared to the other majors. I don't expect that it would have changed much, but you never know.

That doesn't respond to your point about GPAs (or MCAT scores) for accepted applicants, though. Someone posted those statistics on SDN a while back and it was fairly interesting to see that non-science majors seemingly had higher scores, but there wasn't a huge disparity. That would seemingly support your point that admissions committees recognize differences between majors. However...

I somehow doubt it would turn out to be the same. Despite what anyone says, I have a hard time believing that med school adcoms are not intelligent enough to recognize the difference in difficulty between an engineering major and a less challenging major.
Committee members are a mix of people from different backgrounds. One of my friends majored in biochemistry as an undergrad (which trashed her GPA), and her interviewer at a program had done something similar. Of course he was understanding.

On the other hand, I've spoken to an admissions committee member about the disparity of grades between majors. He was of the belief that the GPAs were directly comparable and should not be considered differently. I politely asked how a course of study in engineering could be compared to something like history. His response: "what, you don't think history is difficult?" Take a guess what he had majored in as an undergrad.

It is a gamble to assume/hope that you'll get someone who is understanding of your degree program. At this point in time (and for the foreseeable future), if you have the numbers, it doesn't matter what you did to get them - people will be impressed.

But if anyone wants to do engineering, more power to them. I went into it thinking that I was hot stuff, and got some humility beaten into me. Suffering isn't always a bad thing - just be prepared for the consequences.
 
Velocity, thanks a lot for the information. It's priceless!

In fact, if anyone asks about being an engineering major, I always refer them back to this thread to read your posts 😀 (And I've got it bookmarked too)
 
- my school tends to give its art kids a 3.7 and up for some regardless of talent. Those kids definety screw up the class rank (which I personally believe should be by program rather than class)

That's what I've always wondered also. By those standards wouldn't there be alot of Liberal Arts Valedictorians?

Also, yeah what was said before in the thread to those people that choose Bio/Chem majors if one doesn't get into medical school the only job opportunities I can think of are research or teaching comparative to Engineering which gives a good fallback major.
 
That's what I've always wondered also. By those standards wouldn't there be alot of Liberal Arts Valedictorians?

Also, yeah what was said before in the thread to those people that choose Bio/Chem majors if one doesn't get into medical school the only job opportunities I can think of are research or teaching comparative to Engineering which gives a good fallback major.

Upper-division art classes can be highly subjective with their grading. Something to consider when there will almost certainly be a science major who has a 4.0 because he/she memorized their textbooks.
 
Here's a thought about engineering GPAs:

Grade distributions are a lot less important for engineering majors because most people in industry could care less about what your GPA was, as long as you have an engineering degree (at least, that was the prevailing attitude that I got from recruiters). This is not to say that good grades aren't valued, but that they hold far less sway than someone's technical skills or work experience.

There are many engineering professors that recognize this, and the grading systems for engineering classes often reflect this. For these type of professors, a C in a course is not something to be ashamed of, because it means that they believe that you have obtained the knowledge/skills to be technically competent in the subject matter. Unfortunately, this type of attitude transfers very poorly to the medical school admissions process.


tl;dr

How engineering professors view a C = good, you understand the basic material

How other professors view a C = you're an idiot
 
I think my Engi program requires that you make above a C even though the Uni requires only a D.
 
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