ENT Research

[HiddenTruth]

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Hey all, I have a question. Now, don't kill me for my ignorace--people need to chillax!!

Alrite, so I'm a MS2--well I am finishing my research i started this summer in CTS--but I really don't know whether I would actually ever go into it--I'm interested in mutiple surgical specialties: ENT, uro. I understand the importance of research in these specialties--but just out of curiosity--when do you all get time to do research after the first year? I mean, it seems as if my schedule doesn't allow for me to take 3-4 months out to do research, besides this last summer ofcourse.

My school is not very research oriented, so I have to go places--lol--to find good research, and I would like to eventually match at a top tier, research oriented school--therefore, I started off makin' some connections there--from this summer's experience.

And you all mentioned that for ENT--BS research raises eyes much more than Clincial research, eh? Well, dang--cuz BS research takes forever to get something published. Also, I am kinda' interested in taking a year off, perhaps to do the HHMI-NIH Medical scholar's program. However, I was thinking about the importance of connections for these compet resid. So, is it better to take a year off for something like the NIH program which is very prestigous, or is it better to go to a top tier school and hook up with the head of ENT and do research with him for a year, thereby, making connections and doing significant research in the respected field. But the thing is, I'm not too sure whether I wanna do ENT--I briefly got interested in it while watching a few surgeries in the OR. And that brings me back to my orig. thought which I stated above--that all these politics inevitably MAKES you have to decide REALLY EARLY (if u wanna be really compet) what u wanna do because the most time u will have free to do any significant research is in the first couple years--and during those years, I really am not sure of what I want to do.

So, I guess what I am asking is this --when the heck do I do ENT research or research in the field I want to go into (I chose CTS this summer cuz I was interested in CTS, plus it's a surgical specialty--so regardless of what surgical specialty I might choose, I have done some research in surgery in and of itself) and is it more prestigious PLUS will increase the likelyhood of getting into a good resid program if I do BS research at NIH for a year or do some research with a respected MD in his respective field?

Sorry for the ramble--But in any case, thanks for your input.

HT

 

[Blade28]

I just tried to find time during second and third year to do my research. (BTW, I'm also interested in CTS.) It's tough, especially during third year...after leaving the hospital post-call at 5 pm, the last thing I wanted to do was meet with my research mentor for another 5-6 hours to work.

 

[HiddenTruth]

(BTW, I'm also interested in CTS.)

It takes too damn long, but it is a pretty cool "thing" to be good at-- 😎

 

[Blade28]

Not TOO bad...potentially just a 5-year G Surg residency + 2 years fellowship in cardiothoracic surgery. Give it a couple years, there'll probably be those new 3 + 3 integrated residencies.

Then again, with (sometimes optional) research added into residency, you may also be looking at 7 + 3 = 10. 🙁 Not too happy about the prospect of being done with my training in 2015, when I'm 36 years old.

 

[HiddenTruth]

Not TOO bad...potentially just a 5-year G Surg residency + 2 years fellowship in cardiothoracic surgery. Give it a couple years, there'll probably be those new 3 + 3 integrated residencies.

Then again, with (sometimes optional) research added into residency, you may also be looking at 7 + 3 = 10. 🙁 Not too happy about the prospect of being done with my training in 2015, when I'm 36 years old.

yea exactly--and as far as i know--msot of the big name research schools have 7 year programs with 2 years research REQUIRED as part of training, so yea 10 years of TRAINING c less that minimal wage--dude, that's a tough call. Plus, I think in the process of such rigorous and lengthy training, you become jaded or really cocky. I have worked with this fellow who just started, and that dude thinks he is far in his training to question the chairman's decesiveness. I was like, come on?? The one day I rotate with him--it was his first day--standing on very unfertile soil--and he starts to pimp me "so you're a second year, tell me the gastric blood suppy--the anastomoses, the drainage, etc.) And I'm like yo relax dude---- I hate egotistical ****ards. That being said, I hope I don't become one. It seems as if these really higly specialized fields gets you to think like that, cuz you can do something very few people have the ability to do--ya know?

 

[HiddenTruth]

anyways, someone care to comment on my OP. I kinda' hijacked the thread myself. 😱

 

[Blade28]

yea exactly--and as far as i know--msot of the big name research schools have 7 year programs with 2 years research REQUIRED as part of training, so yea 10 years of TRAINING c less that minimal wage--dude, that's a tough call.
...
The one day I rotate with him--it was his first day--standing on very unfertile soil--and he starts to pimp me "so you're a second year, tell me the gastric blood suppy--the anastomoses, the drainage, etc.)

Not THAT many programs are 5+, mandatory. Of the ones I'm applying to, there's Cedars-Sinai (6), and then UCLA, UCSF, Stanford, BWH (all 7).

Ah yes, residents/fellows/attendings LOVE to pimp. It's the very nature of surgery. The "what's the blood supply to the stomach?" is a favorite in G Surg. In fact, most things involving the celiac trunk/SMA/IMA are. 🙂

 

[pikachu]

asking a question doesn't make you ignorant. ignorant is a state of mind and most ignorant people don't ask questions, because they already think they know it all.

I did research during spare time of first, second, and third years. Even during third year there was time, mostly after-hours and during slow afternoons and vacations. as a fourth year now I will be presenting my first lead-author publication (poster) next week and I recently submitted it to a journal. All the research I've done has been clinical though. I'm not very interested in, or good at, lab work (don't have the patience I guess). I would guess that a quality clinical paper in a well known journal would carry some weight also, so maybe you shouldn't just write off clinical research as such. Many med students don't publish anything at all, although this is probably not true for people trying to get into ENT.

friends of mine who have not matched in competitive specialties like ENT, urology, etc. have taken a year off for research after graduating from medical school. You can always apply; if you get in, wonderful, and if not, then you can take the research year. This gives you a little more leeway and time to decide exactly what specialty you want to pursue. Being a re-applicant can only make you look like you really, really, really want to get into the field...

 

[HiddenTruth]

. Being a re-applicant can only make you look like you really, really, really want to get into the field...

isn't it MUCH harder to match second time around vs. first (atleast, in something as compet as ENT or uro)? I really don't know, but that's what I have heard. Care to share any thoughts?

 

[PFunkAllStar]

I would wait to do the research until after your third year and have had a chance to rotate on CT, ENT, or Uro to see if it is what you want to do. A year off is a long time to invest if you aren't really sure you are going to like it in the end. And I can't stress this enough, don't spend a year of your life (tacking on to that 10+ year residency/fellowship) doing research to merely gold-plate your CV. Summer, spare time, etc. research is plenty (hoping that you got your name plastered somewhere on the paper/poster/abstract) in the eyes of a PD. It can be done, but if you aren't interested in doing research (BS, translational, or clinical) your project will suffer and the way you talk about it in your interviews won't be enthusiastic.

 

[HiddenTruth]

I would wait to do the research until after your third year and have had a chance to rotate on CT, ENT, or Uro to see if it is what you want to do. A year off is a long time to invest if you aren't really sure you are going to like it in the end. And I can't stress this enough, don't spend a year of your life (tacking on to that 10+ year residency/fellowship) doing research to merely gold-plate your CV. Summer, spare time, etc. research is plenty (hoping that you got your name plastered somewhere on the paper/poster/abstract) in the eyes of a PD. It can be done, but if you aren't interested in doing research (BS, translational, or clinical) your project will suffer and the way you talk about it in your interviews won't be enthusiastic.

yea i agree with u on most everything - - my only concern was that it is hard to take out time during or after 3rd year when you're busy with away rot and step 2/interviews to do any significant research. But, FYI, I am interested in research--not only for the sake of "gold plating" my resume, but because I am interested in possibly going into academic medicine. I am also relatively young (21), so I think I have the luxury of taking a year off to do something cool (maybe not research--lol). But yea--good thoughts--I agree. It's def. not worth it for something like CTS (9-10 yrs).

 

[Spiff]

IMO research is research. At this stage of the game, I think the quality of the project and results are just as important, if not more important than the area in which the research is done. The people who will be looking at your CV when residency application time comes around can spot "resume-padder" projects a mile away, and it only takes a couple of questions for them to discover who has really had to go through the research process and who has tagged along on someone elses project or spent a couple of weekends putting a case report together.

My thoughts would be for you to make sure you follow through with your initial research and see the project to completion if you can. Once you have the ball rolling, often times you don't have to spend as much time on the project as you did initially. Once you decide what you want to do as far as a career, there should be plenty of opportunities for smaller projects that you can do either as an MS IV elective or on the side in the specialty you choose. Even if you don't get published in your field before interview time rolls around, you will have plenty to talk about (and perhaps even show).

If you think you might be interested in academics or have a particular area which really interests you, the HHMI-NIH program gives you some exposure to some of the greatest scientific minds in medicine. If you would be viewing HHMI-NIH as just a way to secure a good residency position, then I think you would be short-changing yourself as well as short-changing the NIH.

Anyway, just my $.02

 

[Celiac Plexus]

Take the year off between 3rd year and 4th year. A couple of my classmates in med school did this and it worked pretty well for them.

There is a small problem with loan repayment status if you have taken loans. But if you're loan-free, and your research is funded (my med school worked hard to make sure med students got funded) then it seems like a good option.

Good luck!