Entrepreneurial/ side jobs as an EM doc

[Strider_91]

As an Emergency physician are there side jobs/ entrepreneurial pursuits available besides owing an urgent care or FSED?

Are you able to do independent medical exams/ expert witness testimonies for some extra cash on off days?

If you wanted to do some type of concierge thing where you saw patients at there homes or went on trips with them or something could you legally do that? what would that even look like if you were cash only...I guess just keeping your own records and having your own malpractice insurance?

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[BoardingDoc]

As an Emergency physician are there side jobs/ entrepreneurial pursuits available besides owing an urgent care or FSED?

Are you able to do independent medical exams/ expert witness testimonies for some extra cash on off days?

If you wanted to do some type of concierge thing where you saw patients at there homes or went on trips with them or something could you legally do that? what would that even look like if you were cash only...I guess just keeping your own records and having your own malpractice insurance?

Yes. I know multiple physicians who do expert witness testimony a few times per year. I also know some docs who started up a side business running concierge medicine which became rather profitable for them. You've got plenty of options. That said, as it appears that you're a med student, I'd worry MUCH less about this and focus on step 1, step 2, away rotations etc etc. Once you match into EM, you'll have at least 3-4 years to figure this stuff out. If you spend your time worrying about this now, when you should have been studying for an exam, you're going to feel pretty dumb if you don't match.

 

[Strider_91]

Yes. I know multiple physicians who do expert witness testimony a few times per year. I also know some docs who started up a side business running concierge medicine which became rather profitable for them. You've got plenty of options. That said, as it appears that you're a med student, I'd worry MUCH less about this and focus on step 1, step 2, away rotations etc etc. Once you match into EM, you'll have at least 3-4 years to figure this stuff out. If you spend your time worrying about this now, when you should have been studying for an exam, you're going to feel pretty dumb if you don't match.

It just crossed my mind so I figured id ask while taking a study break from micro...I just like knowing things about different fields and what the options are. I guess I also like procrastinating.

 

[Hercules]

There was a pretty big discussion about side jobs in EM a little while ago. Should be discoverable with the search function.

 

[gutonc]

There was a pretty big discussion about side jobs in EM a little while ago. Should be discoverable with the search function.

He's way too busy studying micro to use the search function.

 

[Strider_91]

He's way too busy studying micro to use the search function.

People get so butthurt about the search function. It’s frustrating to search through an old thread that often just gets derailed into people talking about how they hate EM now, pay too much taxes, how much money they make in Texas, how little money people make in California/ how much they pay in taxes, and how they wouldn’t have chosen medicine.

I would have preferred to direct a conversation.

 

[Hercules]

No hurt feelings here and I can understand how you would want to direct a conversation. It's just that there was already a really good conversation a few months ago that most of us aren't going to be interested in completely repeating. If you search "alternative sources of income" you will find that discussion. If you read it and it doesn't answer your questions, just post a question at the end of it and I bet you'll get a reply.


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[RustedFox]

People get so butthurt about the search function. It’s frustrating to search through an old thread that often just gets derailed into people talking about how they hate EM now, pay too much taxes, how much money they make in Texas, how little money people make in California/ how much they pay in taxes, and how they wouldn’t have chosen medicine.

I would have preferred to direct a conversation.

I'm with you. The search function is often about as useful as teaching calculus to my cat.

I can't wait to have a "side job". I want so badly to do something blue collar. FarmerFox. MechanicFox. CarpenterFox. Something else that feels quite palpable and real.

 

[deleted109597]

You know, you can search the site using google. The only parts you can't see are the parts that require a login, so it doesn't work for the lounge etc.

 

[Strider_91]

No hurt feelings here and I can understand how you would want to direct a conversation. It's just that there was already a really good conversation a few months ago that most of us aren't going to be interested in completely repeating. If you search "alternative sources of income" you will find that discussion. If you read it and it doesn't answer your questions, just post a question at the end of it and I bet you'll get a reply.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

will do, thanks a lot.

 

[Strider_91]

There was a pretty big discussion about side jobs in EM a little while ago. Should be discoverable with the search function.

Okay I just read that thread and it basically talked about day trading. I find the lumber thing interesting, this is always an investment I have wanted to get in since one of my college wrestling friends became a forester. Feel like it would be cool to own land, shred it on snow mobiles, and then sell off the trees every 10 years. Def cool, but not quite what I am talking about.

I am specifically interested in whether or not you can walk into somebodies house, treat them, and charge them money for it as an Emergency physician without getting sued or in trouble in some way?

Could you also start a business where you were a doctor for some rich person or someone doing very dangerous things who was vacationing in a country with sub par healthcare and charge them money for it and not get sued or in trouble in some way?

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

Okay I just read that thread and it basically talked about day trading. I find the lumber thing interesting, this is always an investment I have wanted to get in since one of my college wrestling friends became a forester. Feel like it would be cool to own land, shred it on snow mobiles, and then sell off the trees every 10 years. Def cool, but not quite what I am talking about.

I am specifically interested in whether or not you can walk into somebodies house, treat them, and charge them money for it as an Emergency physician without getting sued or in trouble in some way?

Could you also start a business where you were a doctor for some rich person or someone doing very dangerous things who was vacationing in a country with sub par healthcare and charge them money for it and not get sued or in trouble in some way?

You can always get sued...

 

[Strider_91]

You can always get sued...

Yeah but is the fact that you are on your own enough to get sued

Like “ hey why is the board certified er doctor doing concierge medicine, that’s not in their scope let’s sue them”

I guess the real question is whether or not it is legal to treat people outside of the hospital setting, completely on your own without an affiliation to the hospital you are working at.

Like could I start an outdoor company with a friend and be a doctor in the field on expeditions and do procedures on people and give them meds and charge them for it as a physician/ use that to advertise?

 

[LookForZebras]

If you want a break from patients and want a side job that's more laid back, there is some great medical writing work available for physicians. You can do it from home, at whatever hours you want. Usually the work comes in short-term projects, so you can ramp it up or down depending on your other obligations in life. The compensation hardly compares to ER work, but the flexibility may be worth it, especially if you enjoy writing. CME providers, pharmaceutical companies, test prep companies, and medical websites all need medical writers, or sometimes physician editors to review medical content written by non-physicians.

 

[Hercules]

Yeah but is the fact that you are on your own enough to get sued

Like “ hey why is the board certified er doctor doing concierge medicine, that’s not in their scope let’s sue them”

I guess the real question is whether or not it is legal to treat people outside of the hospital setting, completely on your own without an affiliation to the hospital you are working at.

Like could I start an outdoor company with a friend and be a doctor in the field on expeditions and do procedures on people and give them meds and charge them for it as a physician/ use that to advertise?

Yes that is possible. Doctors do lots of things without hospital affiliations. My urgent care has no hospital affiliation. FSEDs may or may not have a hospital affiliation. If your overall goal was to do concierge medicine, I would probably steer clear of EM and do primary care.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Emergency docs often serve as expedition docs. Typically they're not paid on RVUs or something. They just get a salary (or more likely just food and transportation if that) for the expedition.

 

[Vandalia]

I guess the real question is whether or not it is legal to treat people outside of the hospital setting, completely on your own without an affiliation to the hospital you are working at.

It is completely legal with respect to criminal law. An unrestricted medical license is, well, unrestricted.

However, there can be other issues. First, assuming you have malpractice coverage through your work, it probably will not cover this sort of thing. In addition to the basic fact of not having coverage (and even if there are no damages there are still the very significant fees for your defense) it always hurts your case if there was anything unusual about the provision of care.

Second, there is an issue of it potentially violating your employment contract. If you see a patient who would otherwise have been seen in your ED, then you have almost certainly caused damage to your employer and this in turn can impose liability on you. If you are employed by a hospital (or health system or whatever they call themselves where you live) the same issue can come up even if it wasn't a potential ED visit.

There is a continuum here: If you are an IC you probably don't have to worry about the second issue. If you are an employed by a hospital (or its physician corporation or whatever mechanism they use) this can be a very significant issue. Consult an attorney.

(Let me take this opportunity to raise a tangential issue: The reason you hire an attorney to review an employment contract is not because they might get you a better deal, but so that you know what you are actually signing. The whole reason lawyers have a job is that words and sentences can have a legal meaning that is the opposite of "plain English." Also, statutes, court decisions and "common law" can mean some things are understood but not written when a contract is signed, and other things that are written in the contract may not be enforceable.)

 

[TooMuchResearch]

I'm with you. The search function is often about as useful as teaching calculus to my cat.

I can't wait to have a "side job". I want so badly to do something blue collar. FarmerFox. MechanicFox. CarpenterFox. Something else that feels quite palpable and real.

Maybe you could tutor calculus? For cats? I don't how much it pays, but it's unique.

 

[bravotwozero]

anyone try their luck with telemedicine? most of these gigs pay $20-40 per consultation, and I'm thinking about it. The question is, how many calls are people averaging per hour? This is the key piece of information I can't really gauge from the recruiters....

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Mine is cryptocurrency lol. But there are few side gigs that will pay what EM does. I work 10 shifts a month at my mine site and work prn 4 or more or less shifts and other close by shops. There is a point where Time>money your kids will never be as young as they are today so find out your priorities.

 

[bravotwozero]

Mine is cryptocurrency lol.

Cool, just made a little money on bitcoin myself. Are you investing mainly in bitcoin, or other cryptos as well? You think the others will catch up or just hedging your bets for now?

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Cool, just made a little money on bitcoin myself. Are you investing mainly in bitcoin, or other cryptos as well? You think the others will catch up or just hedging your bets for now?

I’m have made the most on litecoin I’ve placed about 2k and have about 5k all together(in the span of like 3 weeks lol) I won’t cash out for at least a year due to having less capital gains tax and I believe litecoin and etherum will go even further in 2018 look at the ytd growth on coinbase. If it crashes(very possible) I will not sell I’ll just buy more. I have already refinanced my loans and making 5k payments and maxed out Roth IRA and HSA and 30k in my 401k. My short term goal is to buy a Tesla next year so I won’t have to use my emergency fund or be in consumer debt for a car.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

It is completely legal with respect to criminal law. An unrestricted medical license is, well, unrestricted.

However, there can be other issues. First, assuming you have malpractice coverage through your work, it probably will not cover this sort of thing.

Mine does. The insurer does ask that we let them know in advance.

 

[Doctor-S]

EM docs can also get short-term gigs at surfing resorts all over the world (e.g., Fiji, Java).

Some might pay expenses, others do not.

[You can check out "Surfer's Medical Association" online for information.]

 

[austintr]

An EM doc I once knew chose to leave the ED after her group lost its contract. She started one of those hangover recovery businesses and from what I understand has done OK. Who knows where the bulk of the money is made, but her company also does marathons, adventure races, flu recovery, etc.

 

[chessknt]

To answer op's question: concierge medicine as em seems like it would be a stretch since this will require practice outside the realm of urgent care like appropriate screening and management of nephropathy in diabetics, heart disease screening and management, depression/anxiety management etc. Em is not experienced in dealing with these issues chronically and I can imagine an adverse outcome could be (incorrectly or not) attributed to inappropriate management.