Eppp bs

[erg923]

Does anyone else find it odd, and rather infuriating, that you went to school of 5-7 years learning psych and clinical psych stuff, yet the test that requires you to be licensed in said discipline essentially requires MONTHS of rigorous study to pass. That makes no sense to me.

It seems like we should know the vast majority of the content of such a test from the aggregate amount of study, reading, research and clinical work over the years. If it is just something that can be memorized in 3 months, what the hell is the point?! Whats the validity of such a test?! I really don't have the time (I already have a full-time real job) to devote months and months to prepping for this thing.

Thank you. That is all...

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[AcronymAllergy]

I can say with the utmost certainty that you aren't alone in feeling infuriated. Utmost certainty.

 

[Pragma]

Does anyone else find it odd, and rather infuriating, that you went to school of 5-7 years learning psych and clinical psych stuff, yet the test that requires you to be licensed in said discipline essentially requires MONTHS of rigorous study to pass. That makes no sense to me.

It seems like we should know the vast majority of the content of such a test from the aggregate amount of study, reading, research and clinical work over the years. If it is just something that can be memorized in 3 months, what the hell is the point?! Whats the validity of such a test?! I really don't have the time (I already have a full-time real job) to devote months and months to prepping for this thing.

Thank you. That is all...

Agreed that it is a stupid test.

But depending on how you take tests, preparation varies. I only hit the books really hard for about 2 weeks. Prior to that, I just listened to audio files while commuting and took 3 practice tests.

But when I was studying I was pissed too. I feel you.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

You must be new here.....it really is a sham.

The knowledge required on the exam is SO BROAD in topic yet specific in detail, the amount of "extra" things you need to learn boggles my mind. I argued with a friend that the student best prepared to take the EPPP cold would be a pediatric neuropsychologist from a research heavy program who was trained in both behaviorism AND psychodynamic theory and who's research involved Diversity and I/O topics. That sounds like your typical test taker.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

Agreed that it is a stupid test.

But depending on how you take tests, preparation varies. I only hit the books really hard for about 2 weeks. Prior to that, I just listened to audio files while commuting and took 3 practice tests.

But when I was studying I was pissed too. I feel you.

Agreed on amt of prep. Admittedly, I am a good test-taker, but I didn't prep nearly as much as everyone told me to and I did well.

For the most part, the test seems completely unrelated to the practice of psychology. Also, why so much I/O? I/O psychologists don't even take the test. All the clinical psych folks I know didn't even take an I/O course as part of their training. Would love to understand the reasoning there.

Dr. E

 

[neuronic]

The neuro questions are all the more ridiculous. Who actually describes Alzheimer's disease in stages (1, 2, 3, etc.)?

 

[Resident92]

Don't even get me started. I just took it and I am positive I failed. I passed all my prep exams, the PEPPO 2x's and the retired questions list. I went in to take the exam and all I had was a tone of crazy ethics questions that were convoluted as hell and a bunch of neuropsych material. I felt that an M.D. with a specialty in neuropsych should have been taking the exam.

I called the prep company and complained the test was NOTHING like the practice exams, which they state prepare you so well and stated I SHOULD HAVE NO ISSUE during a consult the week before and the guy told me "you may have felt like there was a lot more of those questions, however, the exam is in percentages just as our practice exams are...."

I had maybe two i/o questions, hardly any community psych.

I said who was in the room, you or me???? O and BTW I studied based on those proportions as advised......BIG MISTAKE!

and the dinger..."passing our exams is not to be confused with ability to pass the EPPP......weird, they word it differently when you want to buy their products.

Patronizing

Don't worry I just told my 3 year old daughter and 2 day old son please be patient daddy did not study enough of the things that have nothing to do with his job to keep it so he will be absent again for the next 4 months.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

Don't give up until you see your score. It is very hard to tell if you passed or not when you leave the room. I don't know anyone who left the room feeling good. Everyone needs to use process of elimination on a chunk of the questions. If you are decent at that, you still have a good chance. Fingers crossed for you!

Dr. E

 

[Resident92]

I don't really have a problem with the test. Psychology is a broad field. The practice of psychology is complicated. I don't think you can broadly capture it and assess it cheaply, which this circumstance demands. Thus, a theoretical/knowledge test makes sense. Studying times vary substantially across people. Some of that is personality related. To me, I found that I'd at least heard of most of the information I came across on the exam. My study strategy was to take an entire week off from work and study like a full time job. I actually enjoyed it, but I like history and it was interesting to read about the back stories to some of the theories and theorists involved. I'd vote to make it harder, actually. Increase the bar a little. And, perhaps consider a different style of question.

Ya, but didn't you walk in, take the test and get a 93 or something.......

 

[erg923]

I don't really have a problem with the test. Psychology is a broad field. The practice of psychology is complicated.

Nobody said it wasn't. So is Law. So is medicine. But the BAR exam and medcial board exams don't ask about obscure study findings and info that is really not related to the practice of the profession.

I think the argument here is that is DOESN''T have to be so broad. It would have better criterion validity if it was more narrow in it content regarding practice. That's what they are trying to asses and that what the passing means. You can practice. As it is now, it more the like the psychology subject GRE.

 

[Resident92]

Yes. But, that's just because my brain is really good at remembering useless trivia Now, stuff I need to remember like say, I'm supposed to be at a meeting right now. . . no, forget that.

LOL....ouch!

Well, I am jealous my brain remembers meetings and forgets useless trivial stuff!

Wise guy!

 

[VAneurodoc]

Does anyone else find it odd, and rather infuriating, that you went to school of 5-7 years learning psych and clinical psych stuff, yet the test that requires you to be licensed in said discipline essentially requires MONTHS of rigorous study to pass. That makes no sense to me.

It seems like we should know the vast majority of the content of such a test from the aggregate amount of study, reading, research and clinical work over the years. If it is just something that can be memorized in 3 months, what the hell is the point?! Whats the validity of such a test?! I really don't have the time (I already have a full-time real job) to devote months and months to prepping for this thing.

Thank you. That is all...

There really is no need to spend months studying for this thing. I typically recommend spending one month with the study materials about two hours per day at most. I did two weeks with about two hours a day and passed easily. I am not a particularly good test taker and do not have a great memory. The unfortunate thing is the amount of money that has to be spent on the study materials, but they do make it much easier.

 

[Pragma]

There really is no need to spend months studying for this thing. I typically recommend spending one month with the study materials about two hours per day at most. I did two weeks with about two hours a day and passed easily. I am not a particularly good test taker and do not have a great memory. The unfortunate thing is the amount of money that has to be spent on the study materials, but they do make it much easier.

My costs: $0. Hand-me-downs are the best - even if they are outdated. Worked for me.

Really, the only thing that got me to stress about studying was the cost of the exam itself. It is prohibitive enough (and is going up I think soon?) to make you not want to have to pay for it twice, in addition to take it twice.

But why go spend 1-2K on additional materials when you already are dropping 800 on exam fees? Made no sense to me, so I used stuff that was 8 years old that I got from a friend, but it did the trick.

 

[VAneurodoc]

My costs: $0. Hand-me-downs are the best - even if they are outdated. Worked for me.

Really, the only thing that got me to stress about studying was the cost of the exam itself. It is prohibitive enough (and is going up I think soon?) to make you not want to have to pay for it twice, in addition to take it twice.

But why go spend 1-2K on additional materials when you already are dropping 800 on exam fees? Made no sense to me, so I used stuff that was 8 years old that I got from a friend, but it did the trick.

I did the same. The only dowside is the practice test updates tend to be much closer, and at times pretty much identical, to the current exam than the older practice tests. At least that's how it was when I took it some years back.

 

[erg923]

Pragma, what this abut listenin to EPPP stuff in the car?! I want some prep materials on tape for the ride too, yo! You still have those? I just have the study books i bought from a friend last year.

 

[JeyRo]

Does anyone else find it odd, and rather infuriating, that you went to school of 5-7 years learning psych and clinical psych stuff, yet the test that requires you to be licensed in said discipline essentially requires MONTHS of rigorous study to pass. That makes no sense to me.

It seems like we should know the vast majority of the content of such a test from the aggregate amount of study, reading, research and clinical work over the years. If it is just something that can be memorized in 3 months, what the hell is the point?! Whats the validity of such a test?! I really don't have the time (I already have a full-time real job) to devote months and months to prepping for this thing.

Thank you. That is all...

I think government licensing exams are generally bulls**t exercises anyways. Yes, part of that is my politics talking, but this is nice real world evidence in support of my views, I think.

[edit]

Anyways, in terms of what I did I just made huge stacks of flashcards using AATBS materials, made a card for anything that might possibly look like a question. I overstudied for months, passed on the first try. And then I understudied for the supplementary / jurisprudence exam and had to retake it. Oh well.

 

[Pragma]

Pragma, what this abut listenin to EPPP stuff in the car?! I want some prep materials on tape for the ride too, yo! You still have those? I just have the study books i bought from a friend last year.

It is definitely worth doing - see if you can get your hands on some audio files from classmates and stuff. Good "passive" studying. I unloaded mine to a classmate as soon as I found out I passed.

 

[Resident92]

Pragma, what this abut listenin to EPPP stuff in the car?! I want some prep materials on tape for the ride too, yo! You still have those? I just have the study books i bought from a friend last year.

I have a set of AR cd's

 

[erg923]

PM me if you want to unload them

 

[SingingCow]

You must be new here.....it really is a sham.

The knowledge required on the exam is SO BROAD in topic yet specific in detail, the amount of "extra" things you need to learn boggles my mind. I argued with a friend that the student best prepared to take the EPPP cold would be a pediatric neuropsychologist from a research heavy program who was trained in both behaviorism AND psychodynamic theory and who's research involved Diversity and I/O topics. That sounds like your typical test taker.

Just to elaborate on it: A pediatric neuropsychologist who is previously trained as a developmental psychologist and an APRN-PSYCH, whose most recent job was the HR manager of a culturally diverse psychiatric hospital serving a forensic population, with an average age of 65. This person also moonlights as the PR director to help with sale of products made by generally unmotivated patients who attend a shelter-workshop. In his/her spare time, this person is also pursuing a law degree with an emphasis on mental health law...

What I hated about the EPPP was that some items should have been retired already. If you ask me about the general findings in my specific area of research, I am going to tell you what we know within the past 1-3 years, not 15 years ago.

 

[Neuropsych2be]

I know of two people who are psychologists and physicians who have an MD and Ph.D. They have taken both the USMLE and the EPPP. I know 3 lawyers who have passed the bar prior to getting a Ph.D. in psychology. All of them described the EPPP as the hardest and most frustratingly arcane test they have ever taken. We are supposed to be the profession that lives, eats, and breathes reliability and validity. Yet we have created a test whose validity is .... what??? I mean what exactly is the EPPP trying to measure anyway and is it doing so effectively, reliably and in a valid manner? What constructs is it attempting to assess?? Based on the feedback I have received from friends who have taken it, its like passing a kidney stone because the focus is on extremely arcane topics..

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I would rather have to pass a kidney stone while simultaneously getting a colonoscopy than take the EPPP again. It was such a waste of time to study for the randomness that makes up the questions of that exam.

 

[Pragma]

I'd vote to make it harder, actually. Increase the bar a little.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I'd vote to make it harder, actually. Increase the bar a little. And, perhaps consider a different style of question.

My issue with the EPPP is the breadth of some of the topics. Instead of asking about some obscure diversity study from 1994....provide case studies that require a solid understanding of various issues of diversity. I'd actually be supportive of making it "harder", if the questions could be more applicable to the actual practice of psychology. I was most frustrated by knowing the research and topic being covered, but struggling to decipher the "most correct" or "least wrong" answer. On a number of the questions I used the feedback question to cite studies that better answered the question, as the provided answers were often not completely accurate. I took most issue with the pharmacology and anatomy-esque questions, since they were watered down poor attempts at testing those knowledge areas.

 

[Pragma]

Yeah i would agree. I am all for having a "harder' standard for practice, but the test doesn't have much face validity to me. As it is now it probably does keep some of the poorly trained rifraff out of practicing, but it also causes problems for folks who just aren't the greatest test takers (but may be very good clinicians).

Thankfully I passed it and got licensed awhile back, but at the time I was pretty annoyed. I do think that people grossly overprepare for it, but everyone is different when it comes to exams like that. To me it just seems like such a waste of time and money to invest too much in that process.

I had a supervisor once for a minor rotation who prided themselves in their score (they got a 98 or 99 IIRC). But really - who is still going to be talking about how they did on the EPPP 20-30 years later? Suffice to say, I thought that supervisor was a weirdo - perhaps of the Jon Snow caliber .

 

[cara susanna]

I've been waiting for someone on the boards to use that Jon Snow line.

 

[nyc12345]

Don't even get me started. I just took it and I am positive I failed. I passed all my prep exams, the PEPPO 2x's and the retired questions list. I went in to take the exam and all I had was a tone of crazy ethics questions that were convoluted as hell and a bunch of neuropsych material. I felt that an M.D. with a specialty in neuropsych should have been taking the exam.

I called the prep company and complained the test was NOTHING like the practice exams, which they state prepare you so well and stated I SHOULD HAVE NO ISSUE during a consult the week before and the guy told me "you may have felt like there was a lot more of those questions, however, the exam is in percentages just as our practice exams are...."

I had maybe two i/o questions, hardly any community psych.

I said who was in the room, you or me???? O and BTW I studied based on those proportions as advised......BIG MISTAKE!

and the dinger..."passing our exams is not to be confused with ability to pass the EPPP......weird, they word it differently when you want to buy their products.

Patronizing

Don't worry I just told my 3 year old daughter and 2 day old son please be patient daddy did not study enough of the things that have nothing to do with his job to keep it so he will be absent again for the next 4 months.

i just took the exam this week and am also positive i failed and am devastated!! did you end up passing? i feel like everyone on these boards ends up passing?? maybe the ones who failed don't post about it? Thanks!

 

[PsyDSoccerMom]

i just took the exam this week and am also positive i failed and am devastated!! did you end up passing? i feel like everyone on these boards ends up passing?? maybe the ones who failed don't post about it? Thanks!

Hi there! I am brave to say that I just took the EPPP two days ago and have failed it twice before! There...I said it

I just joined SDN today and wish that I had joined sooner. Topics about the EPPP strike such a nerve with so many. Love it...love the commiseration!

I just wish the people employed with the ASPPB and PES read these threads. In a field where we are devoting our lives to clinical work and research to better the lives of others, someone with a deep seeded sense of sadism wants us all to contemplate "you know what" during our plight to be licensed.

I REALLY REALLY hope this is the last time for me. My family can't take my neglect of them any more. It was foreign to actually sit with a glass of wine and watch "Dancing with the Stars" (<---yes "Dancing with the Stars"...my mind was a bowl of mush) guilt free after the exam.

All the best to you!

 

[PsyDSoccerMom]

I would rather have to pass a kidney stone while simultaneously getting a colonoscopy than take the EPPP again. It was such a waste of time to study for the randomness that makes up the questions of that exam.

I used to say I'd go through labor and delivery again 5 times in a row if it meant my dissertation could be magically done. I would double down on that to pass the EPPP. Clinical skills: A+ / Assessment and Report Writing skills: A+ / Test taking skills: F.

 

[blindchaos]

It was foreign to actually sit with a glass of wine and watch "Dancing with the Stars" (<---yes "Dancing with the Stars"...my mind was a bowl of mush) guilt free after the exam.

Immediately after taking the EPPP, I had a 2+ hour drive home and was thrilled to get to listen to the radio guilt-free! So thankful to be done listening to those AR CDs!!! I'd really like to have a bonfire so I could watch all my books burn...if only they didn't cost so much Gotta get rid of them prior to next summer when it switches to DSM-V.

 

[PsyDSoccerMom]

Immediately after taking the EPPP, I had a 2+ hour drive home and was thrilled to get to listen to the radio guilt-free! So thankful to be done listening to those AR CDs!!! I'd really like to have a bonfire so I could watch all my books burn...if only they didn't cost so much Gotta get rid of them prior to next summer when it switches to DSM-V.

I've evaluated some firesetters in my day but your reply was too funny! Yes, I think I could relish the sight of burning study materials as well

 

[blindchaos]

I've evaluated some firesetters in my day but your reply was too funny! Yes, I think I could relish the sight of burning study materials as well

I think we could make a pretty nice fire if we combine our books! I have the study notecards as well that we could use as kindling

 

[Carolbob]

I just found out I failed my second attempt at the test. Just the re-application process alone is dismal. How many times do they need my birth certificate?? We established that the FIRST time I took it!

I know I'm a great clinician. Isn't that why we had practicums, internships, and post-docs?? The test in no way measures your ability to perform therapy or how effective you are.

I've used all the test prep materials from every company known to man.....Been studying way too long. I'm not sure quite what to do at this point (studying-wise). I don't have access to study groups in my area (my friends graduated in 2010 and I'm the last one left). I haven't taken any workshops either. Does anyone recommend them?

There is nothing on the test that remotely relates to my job (glorified social worker/case manager). I came from doing 3 years at a neuropsych place. Talk about humbling.

Any suggestions? I'm planning on taking it again in 2 months.

 

[EmotRegulation]

Have you ponied up for the practice tests that some of the prep companies offer? PsychPrep's staff people will do an evaluation of your progress if you're not sufficiently increasing your score with multiple practice tests. Simply reviewing the material is not enough, you've got to learn how to get the right answer on the tests, which means general test taking skills. It also means getting or giving yourself feedback on the practice tests so that you know WHY each answer was right or wrong. Approaching the test (actually the Psych GRE, too) this way made learning some of this nonsense (or the specific way they want me to identify concepts I already know) more fun for me.

 

[erg923]

Have you ponied up for the practice tests that some of the prep companies offer? PsychPrep's staff people will do an evaluation of your progress if you're not sufficiently increasing your score with multiple practice tests. Simply reviewing the material is not enough, you've got to learn how to get the right answer on the tests, which means general test taking skills. It also means getting or giving yourself feedback on the practice tests so that you know WHY each answer was right or wrong. Approaching the test (actually the Psych GRE, too) this way made learning some of this nonsense (or the specific way they want me to identify concepts I already know) more fun for me.

If all of us think this is such a flawed test (expect Snow, thanks dude ), why on earth do we, OF ALL PROFESSIONS, the masters of test design, predictive validity, content validity, and overall and psychometrics, put up with it?! Who designs this thing? Why aren't we complaining.

 

[Carolbob]

If all of us think this is such a flawed test (expect Snow, thanks dude ), why on earth do we, OF ALL PROFESSIONS, the masters of test design, predictive validity, content validity, and overall and psychometrics, put up with it?! Who designs this thing? Why aren't we complaining.

I think that the test should measure everything that all practitioners of psychology have to know and when psychologists go to get certified in another specialty such as I/O and stats for example, they should be tested on that specific realm as well as general psychology, without all the needless fluff.

I have taken so many practice tests (30-50) and my scores vary. I am also aware of my anxiety and take deep breaths during the exam. I feel as though I've done everything I need to, further, I have every materials from every test prep company.

So frustrating....

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Take propranolol before the test ... Seriously.

I did that. And Klonopin. It really helped.

 

[PsyDSoccerMom]

I just found out I failed my second attempt at the test. Just the re-application process alone is dismal. How many times do they need my birth certificate?? We established that the FIRST time I took it!

I know I'm a great clinician. Isn't that why we had practicums, internships, and post-docs?? The test in no way measures your ability to perform therapy or how effective you are.

I've used all the test prep materials from every company known to man.....Been studying way too long. I'm not sure quite what to do at this point (studying-wise). I don't have access to study groups in my area (my friends graduated in 2010 and I'm the last one left). I haven't taken any workshops either. Does anyone recommend them?

There is nothing on the test that remotely relates to my job (glorified social worker/case manager). I came from doing 3 years at a neuropsych place. Talk about humbling.

Any suggestions? I'm planning on taking it again in 2 months.

In agreement with Jon Snow above, I took Propanolol (Inderal) just before studying, taking a practice test, and of course right before the exam. I could tell my anxiety was attempting to break through the effects of the meds but were able to minimized enough that I could concentrate without ruminating about the butterflies in the belly or jolts of adrenaline.

I have not done a workshop - no money, no time (work, spouse, kids, and kids activities). However, one of my former colleagues did a workshop in NYC and still failed the exam her first time. 2nd time she passed after seeing a hypnotist!

So a common theme I feel is test anxiety. We are smart people. We've jumped through so many hoops to get here like you said. You can't do that without intelligence and persistence.

As for why we don't complain about this exam...we really should but because we've taken the professional path of people complaining to us, we don't do it. Anyone with good writing skills willing to draft up a petition? I'd be the first signer of support!

 

[KillerDiller]

Anyone who just took the exam looking to get rid of their study materials? If so, please PM me with what you have and the asking price. I'd be especially interested in audio CDs, since I have a long commute.

 

[WisNeuro]

I agree with some, people over-prepare for this thing. couple weeks, tops. I also agree that it should be harder.

That being said, I believe it should be more relevant. There is little reason for I/O to be on there. You don't need a license to do I/O psychology, and I will never incorporate the Theory X or Y management style into my clinical practice. I think it should have more ethics, and more testing that equates to being able to digest and understand clinical research information, something that I see lacking more in some new clinicians.

 

[erg923]

1. I have been getting lower 60s consistently on ARs practice exams. One 67. However, its seems from posts that this is often good enough to pass the exam. Is that right, or am i just wishfully thinking? If I am correct, why is this? AR wants us to be very prepared so they make the practice one alot harder? So, the real thing is not as hard as the typical practice exam? What the explanation here?

2. I am about to exhaust my practice exams from AR and still have 2 weeks before my test date. Where can i find any free online exams? Even just one or two would be good.

Thanks!

 

[Pragma]

1. I have been getting lower 60s consistently on ARs practice exams. One 67. However, its seems from posts that this is often good enough to pass the exam. Is that right, or am i just wishfully thinking? If I am correct, why is this? AR wants us to be very prepared so they make the practice one alot harder? So, the real thing is not as hard as the typical practice exam? What the explanation here?

2. I am about to exhaust my practice exams from AR and still have 2 weeks before my test date. Where can i find any free online exams? Even just one or two would be good.

Thanks!

I used 3 practice exams from AR and that was it. Got in the 60s (or worse) on all of them. Passed with an 80, FWIW. I wasn't willing to study hard for very long.

Sorry, no clue where to get more free online ones. I just got paper and pencil hand-me-downs.

 

[erg923]

Does anyone have input on the absolute content to know backwards and forwards. That is, stuff that will DEFINITIVELY be on every exam. For example, is something about Piaget's stages on pretty much ever exams? These kinds of things. Anyone have anything for me?

 

[Pragma]

Does anyone have input on the absolute content to know backwards and forwards. That is, stuff that will DEFINITIVELY be on every exam. For example, is something about Piaget's stages on pretty much ever exams? These kinds of things. Anyone have anything for me?

Content wise I am not sure for most areas aside from the fact that there are going to be some research/stats questions and there will be ethics questions, and throughly preparing for those is important. At least for me, those questions were worded in a strange way and I fortunately knew my stats well enough to break down some odd equation that was involved in a question.

Within the other domains, I think the content is fair game. I just read as much as possible, took notes, and hoped for adequate recognition.

 

[erg923]

The ethics questions are surprisingly difficult because there is so much degree of being conservative vs rigid and the "well,l i would probably do it this way" thing...which is often perfectly acceptable in actual practice but not on the exam.

 

[Quynh2007]

Please PM me if you would like to sell your study materials, especially the Audio CD. I have a 1 hour commute each day for internship, and about 5 hours on the weekend so I would like a head start on studying.

I really appreciate it!

 

[Psych1123]

Any recommendations for online tests to purchase/sites to look at? I have the books already from a friend.