ERAS deadline

[iBS1972]

How important is it to submit the ERAS application close to 09/15 (opening date) if MSPEs are not going to be uploaded until 10/01?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Ismet]

How important is it to submit the ERAS application close to 09/15 (opening date) if MSPEs are not going to be uploaded until 10/01?

I got several interviews before 10/1.

Just don't feel like you must submit at midnight or 9 or whatever time the application opens. Submitting that night or submitting the next day isn't going to make a difference. People will be freaking out because the website will be really slow or will crash because everyone tries to submit at the exact minute it opens, when they're really just adding more stress to the situation without any benefit.

 

[Redpancreas]

I got several interviews before 10/1.

Just don't feel like you must submit at midnight or 9 or whatever time the application opens. Submitting that night or submitting the next day isn't going to make a difference. People will be freaking out because the website will be really slow or will crash because everyone tries to submit at the exact minute it opens, when they're really just adding more stress to the situation without any benefit.

Ismet, I'm applying to medicine and my SubI is October. When were your interviews scheduled. I have light months in Nov-December but was wondering if I need to make October light too.

 

[Ismet]

Ismet, I'm applying to medicine and my SubI is October. When were your interviews scheduled. I have light months in Nov-December but was wondering if I need to make October light too.

I don't exactly remember but I think I had 2 in October, most were in November and December, and 1 in January. I didn't have a light October rotation but it was flexible enough that I could take a couple days to go to relatively nearby interviews. My November and December months were research and/or light months.

 

[Redpancreas]

I don't exactly remember but I think I had 2 in October, most were in November and December, and 1 in January. I didn't have a light October rotation but it was flexible enough that I could take a couple days to go to relatively nearby interviews. My November and December months were research and/or light months.

Thank you Ismet. To get back to OP's question, based on my experience with AMCAS, what Ismet describes is probably going to be what our experience is going to be day after tomorrow.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The system has changed, for the better. Students can apply anytime from 9/6 onwards, programs can't see anything until tomorrow AM. Therefore, there shouldn't be this crush to put applications in tomorrow.

 

[Ismet]

The system has changed, for the better. Students can apply anytime from 9/6 onwards, programs can't see anything until tomorrow AM. Therefore, there shouldn't be this crush to put applications in tomorrow.

Ah didn't know they changed that! When I applied it didn't open until the 15th and everyone in my class was freaking out.

 

[iBS1972]

The system has changed, for the better. Students can apply anytime from 9/6 onwards, programs can't see anything until tomorrow AM. Therefore, there shouldn't be this crush to put applications in tomorrow.

There are other threads about this, but not much answer. Is there a difference between submitting tomorrow vs. next Monday?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

There are other threads about this, but not much answer. Is there a difference between submitting tomorrow vs. next Monday?

It's hard to say. For me, it wouldn't matter at all. I will have 100's (or 1000's) of applications to review. I couldn't possibly see them all by then, so whether you apply now vs next week doesn't really matter.

On the other hand, I have 1000's of applications to review. One way to cut them down would be to not review anyone who didn't submit on 9/15. You've had 10 days to get your application together. There's really no excuse for being late.

On the third hand, why don't you just apply now, and then update as whatever you're waiting for on Monday. What could possibly change between now and Monday?

 

[DrMcLovin]

Out of curiosity, do you review applications that only have 2 of 3 LOR's uploaded if they are submitted on 9/15 with an otherwise complete application?

It's hard to say. For me, it wouldn't matter at all. I will have 100's (or 1000's) of applications to review. I couldn't possibly see them all by then, so whether you apply now vs next week doesn't really matter.

On the other hand, I have 1000's of applications to review. One way to cut them down would be to not review anyone who didn't submit on 9/15. You've had 10 days to get your application together. There's really no excuse for being late.

On the third hand, why don't you just apply now, and then update as whatever you're waiting for on Monday. What could possibly change between now and Monday?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Out of curiosity, do you review applications that only have 2 of 3 LOR's uploaded if they are submitted on 9/15 with an otherwise complete application?

It depends what you're asking. In order to review your application, we require 3 letters. If you submit on 9/15 with 2 letters, your application just stays in our unreviewed virtual pile. Once your 3rd letter comes in, then it will appear in my "ready to review" filter. Whether you apply 9/15 with 2 letters, or apply 9/30 with 3 letters, you'll end up with the same result. But other programs may use other methods.

 

[iBS1972]

It depends what you're asking. In order to review your application, we require 3 letters. If you submit on 9/15 with 2 letters, your application just stays in our unreviewed virtual pile. Once your 3rd letter comes in, then it will appear in my "ready to review" filter. Whether you apply 9/15 with 2 letters, or apply 9/30 with 3 letters, you'll end up with the same result. But other programs may use other methods.

In that case, would you say that schools are doing a great disservice to their students if they release the MSPEs 10/01? Since for some schools, their applications would not even be considered for review due to the unsubmitted MSPE making the file incomplete?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

What are you asking? MSPE's are not released to programs until 10/1. So whether your school submits it today, or 10/1, the result is the same. I can't see it until 10/1 regardless.

 

[iBS1972]

What are you asking? MSPE's are not released to programs until 10/1. So whether your school submits it today, or 10/1, the result is the same. I can't see it until 10/1 regardless.

From what I understand, you're saying that if you don't have all the required LORs submitted, then the file will not be marked as "ready to review" because it's incomplete. Does this mean that without MSPE letters, the file also counts as not ready to be reviewed. In other words, can a file be marked as "ready to review" even without MSPE letter?

 

[rrxr]

Dude. All MSPEs are embargoed until 10/1, regardless of when they're uploaded. Can you be "ready to review " without the MSPE? At many programs, yes. If you can't be ready without an MSPE, NO ONE can be ready until 10/1. I suspect there are some programs who take that viewpoint, and just don't look at apps until October. But your school isn't screwing you over.

Edit : this is a response to post #14, not the OP. Please submit your portion of ERAS asap. But it does not matter (as far as I know) when your MSPE goes up as long as it's before 10/1.

 

[sliceofbread136]

I would get it in asap tbh. Hard to tell how some programs organize everything

 

[rrxr]

I would get it in asap tbh. Hard to tell how some programs organize everything

A program director just said that he/she can't even see the MSPE until 10/1... so it would be impossible to organize apps right now by whether they have a MSPE.

 

[sliceofbread136]

A program director just said that he/she can't even see the MSPE until 10/1... so it would be impossible to organize apps right now by whether they have a MSPE.

Incorrect, you get plenty of invites prior to MSPE...

 

[rrxr]

Incorrect, you get plenty of invites prior to MSPE...

That's because many programs don't require the MSPE for you to be complete/ready for review. Are you seriously trying to argue that somehow programs are magically reading MSPEs before 10/1 even though a) ERAS tells us it's released starting 10/1 and b) a program director just told us they can't see them before 10/1???

 

[mimelim]

That's because many programs don't require the MSPE for you to be complete/ready for review. Are you seriously trying to argue that somehow programs are magically reading MSPEs before 10/1 even though a) ERAS tells us it's released starting 10/1 and b) a program director just told us they can't see them before 10/1???

Less posting, more reading. He doesn't say or imply that anyone is reading MSPEs before 10/1.

It is pretty simple. Some programs start to send out invites before 10/1 without looking at MSPEs. Ergo, there is a thought that submitting earlier will net you more interview invites. At the end of the day, as someone sitting on the other side, it doesn't make much of any difference in the next couple of weeks. I am sitting down Monday with our PD to start sorting through our applications, not sure exactly when we will start inviting, but could very easily be by the end of the week.

 

[mvenus929]

In that case, would you say that schools are doing a great disservice to their students if they release the MSPEs 10/01? Since for some schools, their applications would not even be considered for review due to the unsubmitted MSPE making the file incomplete?

MSPE =/= LOR. It is a separate part of the application. And programs will either decide to wait for everyone's MSPE, or they will review applications without it. But either way, unless your school uploads it after 10/1, they are not doing anyone a disservice.

 

[rrxr]

Less posting, more reading. He doesn't say or imply that anyone is reading MSPEs before 10/1.

It is pretty simple. Some programs start to send out invites before 10/1 without looking at MSPEs. Ergo, there is a thought that submitting earlier will net you more interview invites. At the end of the day, as someone sitting on the other side, it doesn't make much of any difference in the next couple of weeks. I am sitting down Monday with our PD to start sorting through our applications, not sure exactly when we will start inviting, but could very easily be by the end of the week.

I was not responding to the question in the OP (which is about submitting the applicant's part of ERAS; I agree you should do this ASAP) but to post #14 which is concerned about the MSPE not being uploaded before 10/1. I did not quote post #14 as it was the immediate prior post to mine (#15), so perhaps it was slightly unclear. Thank you for the feedback.

 

[Stagg737]

Ah didn't know they changed that! When I applied it didn't open until the 15th and everyone in my class was freaking out.

Yep, apps can be submitted on the 6th but aren't released to programs until the 15th. So there's a 10 day window to get that done now. The NRMP registration opens on the 15th, but I don't think there's really a rush to register for that (I registered the moment it opened and there weren't any speed delays).

In that case, would you say that schools are doing a great disservice to their students if they release the MSPEs 10/01? Since for some schools, their applications would not even be considered for review due to the unsubmitted MSPE making the file incomplete?

Dude. All MSPEs are embargoed until 10/1, regardless of when they're uploaded. Can you be "ready to review " without the MSPE? At many programs, yes. If you can't be ready without an MSPE, NO ONE can be ready until 10/1. I suspect there are some programs who take that viewpoint, and just don't look at apps until October. But your school isn't screwing you over.

Edit : this is a response to post #14, not the OP. Please submit your portion of ERAS asap. But it does not matter (as far as I know) when your MSPE goes up as long as it's before 10/1.

The school isn't screwing anyone over, but the system definitely doesn't help individuals who have weaker stats but are strong in other areas (which would best be conveyed through LoRs and the MSPE).

Less posting, more reading. He doesn't say or imply that anyone is reading MSPEs before 10/1.

It is pretty simple. Some programs start to send out invites before 10/1 without looking at MSPEs. Ergo, there is a thought that submitting earlier will net you more interview invites. At the end of the day, as someone sitting on the other side, it doesn't make much of any difference in the next couple of weeks. I am sitting down Monday with our PD to start sorting through our applications, not sure exactly when we will start inviting, but could very easily be by the end of the week.

My question for this is do you think there are individuals who may be screened out before the MSPE is released who may not have been screened out if the PDs/screeners were able to see how strong the MSPE was? I ask because I know my stats are pretty mediocre but my LoRs and attending evals were very strong. If you only looked at stats vs. clinical comments it would look like 2 completely separate applicants. So when interviews are offered early do you think that programs that don't automatically screen based on board scores come back and make a second pass of most applicants after the MSPE is released or to they only review those that they thought stats were okay for?

Edit: For my school, clinical grades are 100% based on shelf score compared to the national percentile nationally. So to honor a clinical rotation, you have to be above the 75th to 80th percentile. Attending evals count for nothing and are only included in the MSPE.

 

[sliceofbread136]

I was not responding to the question in the OP (which is about submitting the applicant's part of ERAS; I agree you should do this ASAP) but to post #14 which is concerned about the MSPE not being uploaded before 10/1. I did not quote post #14 as it was the immediate prior post to mine (#15), so perhaps it was slightly unclear. Thank you for the feedback.

Yes your posts and thought process are both quite disorganized and confusing, the point is an application can be "complete" and receiving invites prior to 10/1. There could quite definitely be a chance that programs decide on invites based on the order apps are received, and that would mean every app submitted on 9/15 would be before yours. This could possibly place you at a disadvantage. Also plenty of places send invites prior to 10/1, which is great planning wise as their schedule will likely be completely free.

There are plenty of benefits to getting it on 9/15 and really no reason not to. You've had since 9/1.

 

[mimelim]

My question for this is do you think there are individuals who may be screened out before the MSPE is released who may not have been screened out if the PDs/screeners were able to see how strong the MSPE was? I ask because I know my stats are pretty mediocre but my LoRs and attending evals were very strong. If you only looked at stats vs. clinical comments it would look like 2 completely separate applicants. So when interviews are offered early do you think that programs that don't automatically screen based on board scores come back and make a second pass of most applicants after the MSPE is released or to they only review those that they thought stats were okay for?

Edit: For my school, clinical grades are 100% based on shelf score compared to the national percentile. So to honor a clinical rotation, you have to be above the 75th to 80th percentile. Attending evals count for nothing and are only included in the MSPE.

I think that every specialty and program is going to be different and it will be hard to extrapolate. Are there individuals who are screened out pre-MSPE? Yes, there are many programs with hard floors on other aspects of applications, like step scores. You will not interview at our program with less than a 230 unless you did an away with us or your chairman calls on your behalf. My suspicion is that the more competitive the specialty and the program, the more likely they are to have such things in place. We don't ever throw out applications entirely, but once we fill up our interview days, we don't have a process for adding more people on.

It really depends on how far below what a program normally sees you are. For the vast majority of programs, there is no hard floor. Obviously, higher is better, but in my limited knowledge (only really knowing one program), they look at everything all at once.

 

[Stagg737]

I think that every specialty and program is going to be different and it will be hard to extrapolate. Are there individuals who are screened out pre-MSPE? Yes, there are many programs with hard floors on other aspects of applications, like step scores. You will not interview at our program with less than a 230 unless you did an away with us or your chairman calls on your behalf. My suspicion is that the more competitive the specialty and the program, the more likely they are to have such things in place. We don't ever throw out applications entirely, but once we fill up our interview days, we don't have a process for adding more people on.

It really depends on how far below what a program normally sees you are. For the vast majority of programs, there is no hard floor. Obviously, higher is better, but in my limited knowledge (only really knowing one program), they look at everything all at once.

So do programs come back and look a second time after the MSPE is released (assuming an applicant hasn't been hard-screened out), or is that only for the few borderline interview applicants?

 

[sliceofbread136]

So do programs come back and look a second time after the MSPE is released (assuming an applicant hasn't been hard-screened out), or is that only for the few borderline interview applicants?

Ya they will look at it usually just for grade percentiles and making sure there aren't any red flags. MSPEs have much more of a potential to hurt than help I'm sorry to say. Most schools are invested in the success of their students and make all their MSPEs excellent with only a few exceptions. I hate to say it but I don't think your MSPE will help you that much.

 

[Stagg737]

Ya they will look at it usually just for grade percentiles and making sure there aren't any red flags. MSPEs have much more of a potential to hurt than help I'm sorry to say. Most schools are invested in the success of their students and make all their MSPEs excellent with only a few exceptions. I hate to say it but I don't think your MSPE will help you that much.

Well that sucks to hear, especially because I felt like my attending comments were the strongest part of my application (other than LoRs). Maybe I'm wrong, but other than the MSPE and LoRs how do PDs gauge whether a person is actually decent in clinic? Is it just assumed that clinical grades reflect this since most schools include attending evals as part of the grade?

 

[Anti-PD1]

Regardless of MSPE etc, I was told by a chief resident of a surgery program that he won't even look at apps with their ERAS submitted after 9/15. As mentioned above, it serves as a convenient metric.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Well that sucks to hear, especially because I felt like my attending comments were the strongest part of my application (other than LoRs). Maybe I'm wrong, but other than the MSPE and LoRs how do PDs gauge whether a person is actually decent in clinic? Is it just assumed that clinical grades reflect this since most schools include attending evals as part of the grade?

Yup, clinical grades (which I agree aren't the greatest metric), LORS and step scores are the main things. It's good that you have strong comments on your MSPE but the thing is that probably 90% of applicants do as well :-/

Your strong LORS will be a huge plus though!

 

[Stagg737]

Yup, clinical grades (which I agree aren't the greatest metric), LORS and step scores are the main things. It's good that you have strong comments on your MSPE but the thing is that probably 90% of applicants do as well :-/

Your strong LORS will be a huge plus though!

Got it, I kind of feel like I got screwed compared to other applicants in terms of clinical grades because my school's grades are 100% shelf exam. I was straight up told by 4 of my 6 core attendings that I'd get honors from them if my school graded that way. Doesn't really matter now, but just wish there was more consistency in terms of clinical grades across schools like there is with Step scores.