ERAS & race

[applecore]

Race and ethnicity are optional on ERAS. If you are white or an over-represented minority (Asian), is it better to leave race blank? Are there any disadvantages to leaving race blank?

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[bigdan]

Oh man....

 

[14022]

leave it blank, so you will be more likely to get an interview

and when you get an interview, wear a paper bag over your face so they still wont know your race until after you match

but if youre unfortunate to have a name that will give away your race despite your efforts to hide it (eg, Felipe Gonzalez, Giovani De Luca, Tommy O'Malley, Vladimir Petrov, Deepak Singh, etc.), then your just plain screwed. You have no choice but to reveal your dark secret.

 

[chicamedica]

i left it blank just because i dont think it's an appropriate question to ask. This should be a race-blind process, at least as much as can be (i.e. interview invites).

 

[(nicedream)]

I like when they say they participate in affirmative action and ask your race - and then say it has no part in the admissions decision...

 

[GoPistons]

for residency, race really rarely plays a role... as this is a job and not really about diversity, it is a fair admissions process... unlike medical school and undergrad... ahhhh... finally some justice for all those of us overrepresented in the admissions process...

only very large internal medicine programs use race/affirmative action as a part of their selection process...

think about it... if you only have 2 rad/onc spots or 6 ortho spots... diversity is a non-issue... you want the best people working in your hospital/department... otherwise, you will just have more troubles and work for yourself...

also, there is less scrutiny from the press if a small hospital department doesn't have diversity among their ranks... unlike the shock that would come from Hopkins Med only having 3 Black students in an entering class... you will never see a story about the fact that they haven't taken a Black neurosurgery resident for many years...

 

[chicamedica]

I like when they say they participate in affirmative action and ask your race - and then say it has no part in the admissions decision...

Well, with something good like affirmative action, there is always the possibility of the opposite effect (i.e. prejudice) being present, depending on who is doing the judging. I think the affirmative action part should come into play during/after interviews when more than one person is involved in the decision-making.

 

[applecore]

I guess the real question I want to know is, if I were to leave race & ethnicity blank, would programs look down upon that (eg. think that I'm trying to hide something or interpret that as being dishonest?)

 

[corpsmanUP]

Well, with something good like affirmative action, there is always the possibility of the opposite effect (i.e. prejudice) being present, depending on who is doing the judging. I think the affirmative action part should come into play during/after interviews when more than one person is involved in the decision-making.

Affirmative action at the residency level is useless. AA is a system created to "level the playing field" in order to assist underrepresented minorities in getting to the next level. That "next level" really should end once someone graduates from college and enters medical school. I cannot for the life of me think of a reason why a residency PD would be willing to take an inferior candidate in any capacity simply as some sort of quota. And this comes from a Mexican American who had plenty of help in my city elementary through high school. But once I got the basics under my belt I did not need assistance any longer. AA has a place, but not at this level. The race questions should not be on the forms at all and I can't figure out why they are. In fact, it is possible that the information is only used by ERAS and NRMP and perhaps the program does not receive it.

 

[mackie]

But isn't this question moot in most instances because the ERAS application requires a photo. Sure, for some race is not readily apparent from a photo, but for most, it surely is.

 

[chicamedica]

But isn't this question moot in most instances because the ERAS application requires a photo. Sure, for some race is not readily apparent from a photo, but for most, it surely is.

True. . .good point i forgot about that.

Still my main reason for boycotting the question is, I think "race" should simply be human race, and often labels for "race" that are used are not accurate.

However, for purposes of better opportunity of underrepresented minorities, I support the presence of this question, but as an optional question (which it is) that I dont feel my answer is important for and that noone should feel they have to answer if they dont feel comfortable doing so.

 

[ThinkFast007]

But isn't this question moot in most instances because the ERAS application requires a photo. Sure, for some race is not readily apparent from a photo, but for most, it surely is.

thats gonna be funny then...

I am not what my pic depicts (or what MOST ppl think). LOL...in this manner AA might actually work for me....that's cuz i'm of the race chubaka

 

[applecore]

True, if they interview you, they will usually know what race you are. However, I think there is a big difference in seeing someone in person, and realizing that they are (white, black, asian, hispanic), as opposed to having your race EMBLAZONED on your CAF. It's one of the very 1st things listed after your name and address. And it is sure to get noticed by the interviewers, who typically scan through your CAF sometimes minutes before your interview. I think that the acknowledgement of race when you see someone in person, is different than when you "see" their race on paper. I think seeing someone's race on paper leads to more stereotypes and assumptions.

But isn't this question moot in most instances because the ERAS application requires a photo. Sure, for some race is not readily apparent from a photo, but for most, it surely is.

 

[f_w]

The US is probably the last developed country on the planet that even allows a question regarding an applicants ethnicity on an employment related application. 'Race' as a question (even 'voluntary') should not have a place on any goverment or employment related application.

Some countries and multinational companies actually anonymize applications for employment until the 'short list' for interviews has been assembled based on the various candidates CVs. This way, the HR rep assembling the 'short list' can't use name or looks to discriminate against a candidate (granted, if you went to some of the still segregated colleges or medschools in the US, a PD could probably imply your ethnicity).

The mere fact that some of you guys/gals are unsure whether leaving it blank would be 'looked down upon' demonstrates why it shouldn't be there in the first place. I have made it a point throughout my education and employment history here in the states to leave this question blank (putting your dads average 5 year income or education level there would actually have historic or even predictive value. Ethnicity is a useless piece of information when evaluating a candidate for residency.)

 

[chicamedica]

The US is probably the last developed country on the planet that even allows a question regarding an applicants ethnicity on an employment related application. 'Race' as a question (even 'voluntary') should not have a place on any goverment or employment related application.

Some countries and multinational companies actually anonymize applications for employment until the 'short list' for interviews has been assembled based on the various candidates CVs. This way, the HR rep assembling the 'short list' can't use name or looks to discriminate against a candidate (granted, if you went to some of the still segregated colleges or medschools in the US, a PD could probably imply your ethnicity).

The mere fact that some of you guys/gals are unsure whether leaving it blank would be 'looked down upon' demonstrates why it shouldn't be there in the first place. I have made it a point throughout my education and employment history here in the states to leave this question blank (putting your dads average 5 year income or education level there would actually have historic or even predictive value. Ethnicity is a useless piece of information when evaluating a candidate for residency.)

Agreed. Both with you and with applecore.

 

[applecore]

As an addendum, can you think of any other "higher-education" job where you would put your ethnicity down on your resume or c.v.? I have friends in law and business, and i am positive that they do not put their race on their cv.

 

[Fermi]

As an addendum, can you think of any other "higher-education" job where you would put your ethnicity down on your resume or c.v.? I have friends in law and business, and i am positive that they do not put their race on their cv.

Crap. Now I'm regretting putting my race(s) and ethnicity in the CAF. I now wish I had left it blank. Argh!

 

[IlianaSedai]

*shrug* I checked "Decline to respond." It'll be obvious once the dean's office uploads my picture.