ERAS Research Question

[Nickelpennykid]

So I was second author on an abstract that was presented as an oral presentation this year by the first author. I attended the conference but did not actually present. Can I list this under publications (as there is a spot for Oral Presentations) or do I have list this under the Experiences section?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[gutonc]

So I was second author on an abstract that was presented as an oral presentation this year by the first author. I attended the conference but did not actually present. Can I list this under publications (as there is a spot for Oral Presentations) or do I have list this under the Experiences section?

It doesn't really matter but I'd vote for the "Experiences" section. Nobody is likely to call you on it, but you didn't actually make the presentation. If it was presented at a large national meeting that publishes their abstracts in a special issue of a journal, you could certainly put that in your publication section though. If it was at the county medical society's annual meeting...not so much.

 

[atsai3]

So I was second author on an abstract that was presented as an oral presentation this year by the first author. I attended the conference but did not actually present. Can I list this under publications (as there is a spot for Oral Presentations) or do I have list this under the Experiences section?

This would not count as an oral presentation.

-AT.

 

[IHeartNerds]

I am interested in the logic behind the advice given by the above posters. For example, no one would question putting on an actual (peer-review) publication in which the student was second or third author. That is, the student does a significant amount of work yet does not "finish the job" like the first author does. How is that different from being second author of a poster or an oral talk, where a student may have done 40-60% of the work? Is it simply that "real" publications hold so much more weight in general?

 

[calespine]

I think answers will vary greatly dependent on who you ask, but for publications- a program director told me he looks to see if you're "first author" or "not." The "not" is everything else (second, third author...) because first author=ownership and that's why people fight so hard to get first author status or get so pissed off when they're 2nd author. For presentations, I've been told they hold significantly less weight than a peer reviewed publication because even at the national meetings, it's not that difficult to get a podium presentation, especially since the "review process" is just looking at a few hundred word abstract. Just what I've been told, please don't flame me or start a huge debate

 

[Nickelpennykid]

I think answers will vary greatly dependent on who you ask, but for publications- a program director told me he looks to see if you're "first author" or "not." The "not" is everything else (second, third author...) because first author=ownership and that's why people fight so hard to get first author status or get so pissed off when they're 2nd author. For presentations, I've been told they hold significantly less weight than a peer reviewed publication because even at the national meetings, it's not that difficult to get a podium presentation, especially since the "review process" is just looking at a few hundred word abstract. Just what I've been told, please don't flame me or start a huge debate

I am well aware that they hold less weight, that's not really what I was asking about.

I e-mailed my Student Affairs Office/Clinical Ed...they seemed to side with what those above have already said, that it was better in the Experiences section since I was not the actual presenter. I don't really think it's a big deal either way (it wasn't a huge conference), but I don't think it is worth misrepresenting my role, so it will go in experience section.

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[calespine]

I am well aware that they hold less weight, that's not really what I was asking about.

I e-mailed my Student Affairs Office/Clinical Ed...they seemed to side with what those above have already said, that it was better in the Experiences section since I was not the actual presenter. I don't really think it's a big deal either way (it wasn't a huge conference), but I don't think it is worth misrepresenting my role, so it will go in experience section.

Thanks for the help everyone!

I was replying to iheartnerds.

 

[IHeartNerds]

I have no interest in starting a war here, I'm honestly curious. I think this is too specialty-specific to be definitively answered here. My application stands without the few second-author posters I also have, but hey, if they count, throw 'em on...

 

[Nickelpennykid]

I have no interest in starting a war here, I'm honestly curious. I think this is too specialty-specific to be definitively answered here. My application stands without the few second-author posters I also have, but hey, if they count, throw 'em on...

I agree w you...I'm not sure it is different. My origional thought was to put it as a pub, but had second thoughts. I think since there is no definitive answer for oral presentations, it is best to be more cautious (at least according to my student affairs office). I guess since its not a make or break aspect of my app its not worth risking a match violation. I think it holds true for any field.

 

[atsai3]

I am interested in the logic behind the advice given by the above posters. For example, no one would question putting on an actual (peer-review) publication in which the student was second or third author. That is, the student does a significant amount of work yet does not "finish the job" like the first author does. How is that different from being second author of a poster or an oral talk, where a student may have done 40-60% of the work? Is it simply that "real" publications hold so much more weight in general?

If you describe an experience as an "oral presentation" in your CV, then you are representing that you presented the work as an oral presentation at a conference. Being the oral presenter is very different from being a poster presentation, which is an oral presentation of sorts but is very different from the prestige accorded to the oral presenter. Being a second author but not the oral presenter is also very different, because, simply, you are not the oral presenter. When it comes out in publication in a peer-reviewed journal, sure, list it as a publication. As 2nd or 3rd author, you may have contributed substantially to it such that your work was rewarded with 2nd or 3rd authorship -- but unless you present it at the conference, you cannot represent it as an oral presentation. A more accurate representation would be to have a separate section in your CV as "other contributions" where you would list 2nd-authored published abstracts (eg., American College of Emergency Physicians publishes abstracts for the annual meeting in an actual volume of the Annals of Emergency Medicine -- or at least they used to), 2nd-authored poster presentations (eg., the Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections does not 'publish' the abstracts in an indexed journal, but rather issues a 'poster book' or CD containing all of the abstracts), and so forth.

In general, a useful principle for your ERAS application (at least when it comes to distinguishing between posters, abstracts, etc etc etc) is: downsell, don't upsell.

-AT.