Established DO school (KCU-COM) vs. Brand new MD campus (Ponce STL)

[MateoGM416]

Hello all,

To preface this, I haven't been accepted to either school. I interviewed a couple of months ago for Ponce STL and still haven't heard anything, and I've been on the waitlist for KCU-COM since late last year (I have been accepted to other DO programs but KCU-COM is my top choice DO program). KCU-COM recently put out waitlist survey that I must respond to soon to stay on the waitlist, and one of the questions is asking if I have submitted a letter of intent. This has made me think it's probably a good idea to send one sooner rather than later (if that is even worth it) before more waitlist movement starts after the 14th. I know I could send one anyway, but I would like to uphold the significance of the LOI by not sending a LOI to a school I am not fully committed to attending if offered a letter of acceptance.

I have been torn on the topic of attending a brand-new MD program vs. an established and respected DO school. I know USMD is 'top tier' when it comes to medical school, but I don't know if that still applies to brand new programs? Ponce's PR campus seems to do decent on match, but idk if I feel comfortable banking my medical career on a brand-new program with not nearly as much as facilities as established DO schools like KCU-COM. I'm pretty sure I don't want to do anything that's super competitive for residency, and I honestly don't care at all about the letters after my name. I would also like to mention that KC and Joplin are closer to home than STL, and I have more friends there than STL. I wanted to hear what SDN had to say about all this.

TIA!

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[voxveritatisetlucis]

MD over DO every time unless it’s Cal north state

Many PDs in specialties ranging from IM to surgical subs and programs ranging from mid tier to high tier use a non-LCME filter. Why make things harder for yourself?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

wow you replied not even a minute after posting, could I ask why you feel so adamantly about MD over DO every time even in this case? Ponce STL doesn't have a permanent building yet, wouldn't something like that make a difference?

Many PDs in specialties ranging from IM to surgical subs and programs ranging from mid tier to high tier use a non-LCME filter. Why make things harder for yourself?

You can still match well from a DO school, but look at the match lists of even the newer MD schools.

To clarify, I have nothing against DO schools or students and think that the bias is unwarranted but the fact is at this point in time, some bias still exists from PDs

 

[MateoGM416]

MD over DO every time unless it’s Cal north state

Many PDs in specialties ranging from IM to surgical subs and programs ranging from mid tier to high tier use a non-LCME filter. Why make things harder for yourself?

Okay but how extensive and numerous are these PD's? How much is 'many'? I'm barely even familiar with the med school application process and have less insight into what the residency application process is like. I do know that every year the DO stigma is decreasing. In this case, I would be the first class to graduate from this campus so the only match I would have to compare to would be the students graduating in Puerto Rico.. their match rate the past 4 years was 86% and they have a 87% Step 1 pass rate, and an 8% attrition rate, plus they are for profit

 

[tittaniumsteele]

MD! Goooooooooooooo!

 

[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

MD simply bc the stigma is far from dead. Why deal w that?

 

[MateoGM416]

MD simply bc the stigma is far from dead. Why deal w that?

because the main campus has a pretty bad match rate, and this is a brand new campus.... does the DO stigma exceed the uncertainty in this case?

 

[Go2Mars]

I am going to go against the common opinion here on SDN and tell you to go with whatever choice you believe will make you happy and where you can succeed without having the thought in the back of your mind that your school may not be supporting you fully. Your mental health and support system is important, and it seems you have friends/family near KCU. In your case, I would recommend the established DO school of KCU-COM over Ponce-STL. I also don't agree with above comments as I actually believe the DO stigma is over based on pure statistics. The recent match rate difference of DO vs MD students was insignificant (91.3% vs 92.9%) according to reports from the 2022 residency match.

The growing struggles of new schools can be frustrating. Also, if you are worried that "I am the only person doing this and going against common opinion", it is far from the truth. There are students every year that choose DO schools over MD schools for many reasons (support system, established, facilities, location, etc). Also, I just read your comment that Ponce-STL is "for-profit", so I would avoid them. Based on the current CNUCOM probation fiasco, it seems the LCME is not in favor of for-profit schools and the way they run business and treat students.

Source for match statistics: NRMP Delivers a Strong Match to Thousands of Residency Applicants and Programs

 

[MateoGM416]

I am going to go against the common opinion here on SDN and tell you to go with whatever choice you believe will make you happy and where you can succeed without having the thought in the back of your mind that your school may not be supporting you fully. Your mental health and support system is important, and it seems you have friends/family near KCU. In your case, I would recommend the established DO school of KCU-COM over Ponce-STL. I also don't agree with above comments as I actually believe the DO stigma is over based on pure statistics. The recent match rate difference of DO vs MD students was insignificant (91.3% vs 92.9%) according to reports from the 2022 residency match.

The growing struggles of new schools can be frustrating. Also, if you are worried that "I am the only person doing this and going against common opinion", it is far from the truth. There are students every year that choose DO schools over MD schools for many reasons (support system, established, facilities, location, etc). Also, I just read your comment that Ponce-STL is "for-profit", so I would avoid them. Based on the current CNUCOM probation fiasco, it seems the LCME is not in favor of for-profit schools and the way they run business and treat students.

Source for match statistics: NRMP Delivers a Strong Match to Thousands of Residency Applicants and Programs

Thank you for this advice. Ponce is still LCME accredited, and I don't think that's threatened, but why are for-profit schools so bad (excluding CNUCOM)?

 

[Schwifty]

I also don't agree with above comments as I actually believe the DO stigma is over based on pure statistics. The recent match rate difference of DO vs MD students was insignificant (91.3% vs 92.9%) according to reports from the 2022 residency match.

Yes the difference in overall match rate is almost nothing, but look where all those students are going. Most DO students will go into primary care (a lot by choice yes) but a lot also do it because its all they can do. Look at anything moderately competitive and thats where you see the real anti DO stigma. An average MD would have reliably no problem matching something like OB or GS where as DO's have <80% match rate there. It gets even worse when you look at stuff like Derm, Plastics, ENT, Ortho, NSG where the majority of program won't even look at DO's and the match rates are ~50%. Being an MD makes your life 100x easier when it come time to apply to residency. The stigma is alive and well, I've seen it first hand as a DO applying ortho this upcoming cycle.

 

[MateoGM416]

The stigma is alive and well, I've seen it first hand as a DO applying ortho this upcoming cycle.

How so?

 

[Schwifty]

How so?

I was at the AAOS (ortho conference) at student networking events with a bunch of ortho PD’s (all MD) and anytime I or any of the other DO students mentioned they were at a DO school we pretty much immediately got ignored, I mean some would literally just lose all interest in talking to us mid conversation as start talking to other students. At first I though it was just me but after talking with >10 other DO students there they all said the same thing. It sucks but it is what it is.

 

[MateoGM416]

I was at the AAOS (ortho conference) at student networking events with a bunch of ortho PD’s (all MD) and anytime I or any of the other DO students mentioned they were at a DO school we pretty much immediately got ignored, I mean some would literally just lose all interest in talking to us mid conversation as start talking to other students. At first I though it was just me but after talking with >10 other DO students there they all said the same thing. It sucks but it is what it is.

I'm sorry you went through that, but I feel like it's difficult to generalize your experience at one event with all DO students' experiences across every specialty in this country

 

[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

I'm sorry you went through that, but I feel like it's difficult to generalize your experience at one event with all DO students' experiences across every specialty in this country

This isn’t an isolated incident. If you spend some time reading the dozens of MD vs DO threads between here and reddit, you will find countless individuals, including numerous DO candidates themselves, attesting to all of the reasons it’s tougher to match competitively from the DO route than with an MD. Hate to say it, but it seems that you’re experiencing some confirmation bias as a result of wanting to go DO. Go to the DO if you want, just don’t expect many people on these forums to be super gung ho about that idea.

 

[ChicagoBear]

On some OB GYN boards there has been "much weeping and gnashing of teeth" about the OB GYN match rates - especially for DO's. This, notwithstanding an overall fantastic Match rate for Senior DO's of 91.3% - virtually the same as the 92.9% for MD's.

Attached is additional detail from the NRMP. Unfortunately, the NRMP does not directly publish specific match rates for MDs and DOs in each specialty. However, these rates can be calculated with a little middle school math. I call your attention specifically to page 3 for Senior MDs and page 5 for Senior DOs. There, each specialty is listed, along with the number that applied for the specialty and the number who matched.

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Advance-Data-Tables-2022-FINAL.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1X5f7OeVCopjIli1Uf4u2IqfnIXS6ABGcPVCl6ycR_Ohdq2VO92jJ6_w8

I totally agree with the posts above that the overall match rate is nearing parity between MDs and DOs, and is rising each year. DOs are also starting to have "breakthrough" matches into highly competitive residencies (neuro, thorasic and vascular surgery etc.), while the overall numbers are still quite small, the population of applicants is very self-selecting for both degree types. There are also a number of "bread and butter" specialities where there is only a non-material percentage difference between the MD and DO match rate, such as: pediatrics, emergency medicine and internal medicine - these are quite "DO friendly".

HOWEVER, the data also shows that there are a number of "bread and butter" residencies that still have a significant gap between the match rates for MDs and DOs - such as OB GYN (20.3%), General Surgery (18.8%) and Anesthesiology (18.7%). For example, in OB GYN, would you prefer an 81.4% chance of matching into the specialty or a 61.1% chance? For surgery a 72.2% chance or a 53.4% chance? For Gas, 70.8% or 52.1%? Obviously, a good number of DO candidates are matching into all these specialties, but a decent percentage are not.

Given the overall high match percentage rate, it is clear that many of the candidates (for both degrees) are dual applicants into either a transitional/preliminary post, or into a less competitive speciality such as family med, pediatrics or non-academic internal medicine. So, if you get a DO acceptance and are not accepted MD, take it! If you receive acceptances to both, you have a big decision to make based upon: cost, location, support systems and desired specialty. As a DO, you have virtually the same overall percentage chance of being a licensed physician as an MD. You just need to go in with your "eyes wide open" as to potential obstacles for certain specialties.

 

[MateoGM416]

This isn’t an isolated incident. If you spend some time reading the dozens of MD vs DO threads between here and reddit, you will find countless individuals, including numerous DO candidates themselves, attesting to all of the reasons it’s tougher to match competitively from the DO route than with an MD. Hate to say it, but it seems that you’re experiencing some confirmation bias as a result of wanting to go DO. Go to the DO if you want, just don’t expect many people on these forums to be super gung ho about that idea.

Thank you for the advice, but that's just a weird thing to say, considering you don't know anything about me and are projecting the idea that I care about a forum of people being 'super gung ho' about my decision. If I didn't give any weight to the anecdotal evidence of the DO stigma, than I wouldn't have made a thread asking for such input. I greatly appreciate everyone who has posted so far with their experiences and advice. And if this was a decision of attending an academic USMD program vs. any DO program, obviously I would choose the MD program. But this unique situation has made this decision more complicated than the typical MD vs. DO debate, and I have received conflicting advice both within this thread and especially in real-life. Please read my OP if you have any more advice to share.

 

[MateoGM416]

On some OB GYN boards there has been "much weeping and gnashing of teeth" about the OB GYN match rates - especially for DO's. This, notwithstanding an overall fantastic Match rate for Senior DO's of 91.3% - virtually the same as the 92.9% for MD's.

Attached is additional detail from the NRMP. Unfortunately, the NRMP does not directly publish specific match rates for MDs and DOs in each specialty. However, these rates can be calculated with a little middle school math. I call your attention specifically to page 3 for Senior MDs and page 5 for Senior DOs. There, each specialty is listed, along with the number that applied for the specialty and the number who matched.

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Advance-Data-Tables-2022-FINAL.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1X5f7OeVCopjIli1Uf4u2IqfnIXS6ABGcPVCl6ycR_Ohdq2VO92jJ6_w8

I totally agree with the posts above that the overall match rate is nearing parity between MDs and DOs, and is rising each year. DOs are also starting to have "breakthrough" matches into highly competitive residencies (neuro, thorasic and vascular surgery etc.), while the overall numbers are still quite small, the population of applicants is very self-selecting for both degree types. There are also a number of "bread and butter" specialities where there is only a non-material percentage difference between the MD and DO match rate, such as: pediatrics, emergency medicine and internal medicine - these are quite "DO friendly".

HOWEVER, the data also shows that there are a number of "bread and butter" residencies that still have a significant gap between the match rates for MDs and DOs - such as OB GYN (20.3%), General Surgery (18.8%) and Anesthesiology (18.7%). For example, in OB GYN, would you prefer an 81.4% chance of matching into the specialty or a 61.1% chance? For surgery a 72.2% chance or a 53.4% chance? For Gas, 70.8% or 52.1%? Obviously, a good number of DO candidates are matching into all these specialties, but a decent percentage are not.

Given the overall high match percentage rate, it is clear that many of the candidates (for both degrees) are dual applicants into either a transitional/preliminary post, or into a less competitive speciality such as family med, pediatrics or non-academic internal medicine. So, if you get a DO acceptance and are not accepted MD, take it! If you receive acceptances to both, you have a big decision to make based upon: cost, location, support systems and desired specialty. As a DO, you have virtually the same overall percentage chance of being a licensed physician as an MD. You just need to go in with your "eyes wide open" as to potential obstacles for certain specialties.

Thank you so much for the advice and grabbing those stats for me. At this point I'm not thinking about going into a super competitive specialty, I'm considering peds or family medicine highly, and MAYBE pathology or radiology, so that is very helpful.

 

[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

Thank you for the advice, but that's just a weird thing to say, considering you don't know anything about me and are projecting the idea that I care about a forum of people being 'super gung ho' about my decision. If I didn't give any weight to the anecdotal evidence of the DO stigma, than I wouldn't have made a thread asking for such input. I greatly appreciate everyone who has posted so far with their experiences and advice. And if this was a decision of attending an academic USMD program vs. any DO program, obviously I would choose the MD program. But this unique situation has made this decision more complicated than the typical MD vs. DO debate, and I have received conflicting advice both within this thread and especially in real-life. Please read my OP if you have any more advice to share.

Just seemed that u readily dismissed the DO student here who shared his experience and that of others at that same event. For that reason, along w some of the other comments, I get the feeling you’re having a hard time swallowing the pill that is the extant DO disadvantage. Was just putting it bluntly that there are many forums detailing the reasons to choose MD over DO (regardless of rhe school name, minus Cal Northstate) when interested in more competitive specialties, and that you can find that information if you look for it. Again, it was mainly just the vibe I got from your reply to the DO student here that provided the information you asked for, but you just shrugged it off. That is confirmation bias, focusing only on the information you want to hear.. perhaps I misread your tone. If so, that’s on me.

 

[VeitVat]

MD over DO every time unless it’s Cal north state

Many PDs in specialties ranging from IM to surgical subs and programs ranging from mid tier to high tier use a non-LCME filter. Why make things harder for yourself?

Ponce SOM is for-profit, just like Cal north state. Ponce was in face the first LCME accredited school to turn for profit.

 

[ChocolateChip>Oreos]

MD school> DO

 

[MateoGM416]

MD school> DO

I appreciate the input, but could you elaborate on your reasoning? Thanks!

 

[DoctorSparkles]

Yes the difference in overall match rate is almost nothing, but look where all those students are going. Most DO students will go into primary care (a lot by choice yes) but a lot also do it because its all they can do. Look at anything moderately competitive and thats where you see the real anti DO stigma. An average MD would have reliably no problem matching something like OB or GS where as DO's have <80% match rate there. It gets even worse when you look at stuff like Derm, Plastics, ENT, Ortho, NSG where the majority of program won't even look at DO's and the match rates are ~50%. Being an MD makes your life 100x easier when it come time to apply to residency. The stigma is alive and well, I've seen it first hand as a DO applying ortho this upcoming cycle.

only one way to eliminate the stigma... should we just not do what's best for us because it may be difficult?

 

[Schwifty]

I'm sorry you went through that, but I feel like it's difficult to generalize your experience at one event with all DO students' experiences across every specialty in this country

I'm not generalizing, just giving an example. This isn't an isolated event by any means. I know people who went into or are apply to ortho, ophtho, NSG, anesthesia, OBGYN, IM, etc. and they have all had experiences like mine. Just search on here or on reddit and you can find countless stories like mine in literally all fields.

 

[Schwifty]

only one way to eliminate the stigma... should we just not do what's best for us because it may be difficult?

Not sure what you mean?

 

[SquidLab]

Did OP say what specialty they're planning on pursuing? If primary care, I would argue that it's not that big of a difference, especially considering that regional bias may help you stay closer to family. While yes, there is a difference between MD and DO match specialties, there's also a difference between T10 MD schools and unranked MD schools. The comparison isn't really black and white.

OP, go where you think you'll be better supported and have the most fun.

 

[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

Not sure what you mean?

They’re suggesting that only by going DO and being one of the ones that proves themselves to their MD counterparts and PD’s along the way (and thus does right by the DO title) can you help break the stigma. While I appreciate that sentiment, the last line of “should we not do what’s best for us bc it might be difficult” is where the logic tails off. The point is that having to bear that stigma might ultimately be a detriment to OP and is therefore not what’s best for him. is it possible for him to achieve his career goals as a DO? of course. are his chances slimmer than if he had an MD? The data would suggest that in many instances, the answer is yes.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I'm a DO.

Go MD. You're saving yourself money and time on multiple board exams you won't have to parallel take. Your saving a lot of time you'll waste being trained by physicians who are detached from formal resident training and thus can neither offer your connections nor close insight. And you'll save yourself time on OMM. And no. Your match rate objectively will be superior to DO applicants with similar scores. An MD with a 210 will get university IM interviews. a DO with a 210 will be getting community and communiversity programs in IM.

Lets be frank. I'm a Physician. I matched into my first choice fellowship in a prestigious program. I made the dream. And you can probably do it too even as a DO. But like why make things harder?

 

[MateoGM416]

I'm a DO.

Go MD. You're saving yourself money and time on multiple board exams you won't have to parallel take. Your saving a lot of time you'll waste being trained by physicians who are detached from formal resident training and thus can neither offer your connections nor close insight. And you'll save yourself time on OMM. And no. Your match rate objectively will be superior to DO applicants with similar scores. An MD with a 210 will get university IM interviews. a DO with a 210 will be getting community and communiversity programs in IM.

Lets be frank. I'm a Physician. I matched into my first choice fellowship in a prestigious program. I made the dream. And you can probably do it too even as a DO. But like why make things harder?

Thank you for your advice. Although I will mention that matching into a prestigious program is not one of my goals, I just want to match into my chosen specialty and practice somewhere rural. Although in this case I still can’t shake the feeling that this isn’t as cut and dry as MD vs. DO. Ponce STL doesn’t even have a building yet, and not nearly as much student resources and support compared to KCU. I would just rather study for two boards and try to punch above my weight, where others have done before since the 100-something years the school has been around, rather than try to trailblaze at a completely new program. SOS to anyone who was a first year at a new program and matched well 😬

 

[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

Thank you for your advice. Although I will mention that matching into a prestigious program is not one of my goals, I just want to match into my chosen specialty and practice somewhere rural. Although in this case I still can’t shake the feeling that this isn’t as cut and dry as MD vs. DO. Ponce STL doesn’t even have a building yet, and not nearly as much student resources and support compared to KCU. I would just rather study for two boards and try to punch above my weight, where others have done before since the 100-something years the school has been around, rather than try to trailblaze at a completely new program. SOS to anyone who was a first year at a new program and matched well 😬

This is why I got a little tight w you before. You’re just brushing off everyone’s advice bc it’s not what you want to hear. Just pointing that out. Last comment on here, I’ll leave ya to it. Best of luck to you with your decision

 

[Sidus1011]

Thank you for your advice. Although I will mention that matching into a prestigious program is not one of my goals, I just want to match into my chosen specialty and practice somewhere rural. Although in this case I still can’t shake the feeling that this isn’t as cut and dry as MD vs. DO. Ponce STL doesn’t even have a building yet, and not nearly as much student resources and support compared to KCU. I would just rather study for two boards and try to punch above my weight where others have done before, rather than try to trailblaze at a completely new program. SOS to anyone who was a first year at a new program and matched well 😬

This thread has been going on for a while now. I do think you should go MD. However, if you truly want to go to KCU because it is everything you want and more, go for it. You asked for advice, you received a resounding answer of go MD. It still seems like you're unsatisfied with this choice and would much rather go DO. You have autonomy of choice in this situation, only you can really know what's best for you. You're going to become a physician regardless, take pride in that. But recognize that if you fall in love with something that's hard to match, you may regret going DO.

MD=DO in the end in terms of equivalency, there is no real stigma in the real world. The biggest hurdle is residency match, which if you end up going for radiology in the specialties listed, you will be at a disadvantage as a DO. Will you not match Rads? Who knows. Will it be because you're a DO? Who knows. But this may be something you question later on as being a "what if" moment. Or it may end up being nonconsequential. This is especially the case for Family Med, Peds, and Path, where these things won't matter too much.

To me it sounds like you want to go KCU, just don't deny the scarlet letters of DO won't affect you. KCU is a great school and it seems to suit majority of your goals, it's understandable to feel conflicted over this. Good luck with your decision!

 

[goldfish.bowl]

I'm also going to go against the grain here a little bit- as someone living and working in the STL hospital environment, Ponce STL is not seen as very legitimate. May just be the bubble i'm in and open to anyone else's experience, but I would go DO in this case.

 

[MateoGM416]

This is why I got a little tight w you before. You’re just brushing off everyone’s advice bc it’s not what you want to hear. Just pointing that out. Last comment on here, I’ll leave ya to it. Best of luck to you with your decision

I'm not brushing anyone's advice off, or at least I'm not trying to, I'm trying to play devil's advocate en lieu of my apprehensions about both options. Although the majority of people replying have suggested MD which is why I'm pushing back more on that option. I feel like I have a right to be skeptical about a new MD program, while I do acknowledge that going DO will make matching at my preferred program more difficult. I'm not trying to be obtuse, I just want as much input and explanation on that input as possible so I can best make the most difficult decision in my life up to this point...

 

[MateoGM416]

I'm also going to go against the grain here a little bit- as someone living and working in the STL hospital environment, Ponce STL is not seen as very legitimate. May just be the bubble i'm in and open to anyone else's experience, but I would go DO in this case.

Thank you for this input!! How so, and what exactly have you heard about the school? I know they have plans for a huge new building, but that seems way far off from by the time I would graduate. I also know students would do their rotations at Mercy STL, which is a really good hospital (I work at a different Mercy hospital actually and that is our flagship for sure). There's just so many unknowns about this program in particular that is crazy to me. I didn't get a good feel at all about what the school environment was like from my interview, considering I would be in the first ever graduating class.

 

[Sidus1011]

I'm not brushing anyone's advice off, or at least I'm not trying to, I'm trying to play devil's advocate en lieu of my apprehensions about both options. Although the majority of people replying have suggested MD which is why I'm pushing back more on that option. I feel like I have a right to be skeptical about a new MD program, while I do acknowledge that going DO will make matching at my preferred program more difficult. I'm not trying to be obtuse, I just want as much input and explanation on that input as possible so I can best make the most difficult decision in my life up to this point...

KCU-COM vs. PHSU

Personal: I am a Florida resident. I have family in Kansas and Puerto Rico. I am not sure which school to enter, so I gather some information below and appreciate your thoughts. Professional/Academic: I am an untraditional student and have work experience as well as research publications. I...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Heres an additional thread to peruse from someone previously in your position that may be helpful.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

If you look at the recent first match lists of newer MD schools, they’re significantly stronger than those of established DO schools in terms of both specialty mix and academic/community ratio.

When comparing to DO schools, one must adjust for size since DO schools seem to 300+ students in some cases.

Despite this, I think that you should go to KCU because it doesn’t seem like you’d be comfortable with a newer program. This could affect performance, making the MD advantage negligible

 

[goldfish.bowl]

Thank you for this input!! How so, and what exactly have you heard about the school? I know they have plans for a huge new building, but that seems way far off from by the time I would graduate. I also know students would do their rotations at Mercy STL, which is a really good hospital (I work at a different Mercy hospital actually and that is our flagship for sure). There's just so many unknowns about this program in particular that is crazy to me. I didn't get a good feel at all about what the school environment was like from my interview, considering I would be in the first ever graduating class.

I honestly can't speak to the program quality or the new building, just the reputation in the community. Im in the SSM & BJC sphere, and the program is known by almost nobody. Regarded as second-rate. Again I can't speak for the quality of education offered or the opportunities (and from what you're saying the clinical rotations seem to be solid) but this is just the buzz I've heard around it. Expensive education with little gained back in terms of connections/repuatation is the gist.

 

[MateoGM416]

I honestly can't speak to the program quality or the new building, just the reputation in the community. Im in the SSM & BJC sphere, and the program is known by almost nobody. Regarded as second-rate. Again I can't speak for the quality of education offered or the opportunities (and from what you're saying the clinical rotations seem to be solid) but this is just the buzz I've heard around it. Expensive education with little gained back in terms of connections/repuatation is the gist.

Well, I don't doubt that it's not well known. I can see where students would struggle with getting clinical and research connections outside of Mercy (whose docs don't really do any research). It seems like they just kinda plopped down into St. Louis without building those relationships first. If you have anything else please share.

Despite this, I think that you should go to KCU because it doesn’t seem like you’d be comfortable with a newer program. This could affect performance, making the MD advantage negligible

I do think that I could learn to be comfortable at either school: neither of these options are 'bad' per say. I just don't want to go down either road and regret my choice.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

I vote that you choose the program that you’ll be happiest at and will thrive in. I am a DO student, finishing my first year of school. I was admitted to four DO programs and one MD program and after investigating all of the programs, I decided to attend the DO program that I’m in now. I love the curriculum, student support services, the school & city diversity, opportunities to get involved with research, cost of living in the city, and the area has ample opportunities for my wife’s career. OMT lab can sometimes be a real pain in the ass and the idea that at a minimum, I’ll have to take Step 1 in addition to COMLEX, sucks, but I made the decision that is allowing me to thrive. There will be stigma that you face as a DO grad but for the most part, your future career goals will be up to you and the effort that you put into creating a successful residency application. Go where you think you’ll be happiest and will thrive. Best of luck no matter what decision you make.

 

[MateoGM416]

I vote that you choose the program that you’ll be happiest at and will thrive in. I am a DO student, finishing my first year of school. I was admitted to four DO programs and one MD program and after investigating all of the programs, I decided to attend the DO program that I’m in now. I love the curriculum, student support services, the school & city diversity, opportunities to get involved with research, cost of living in the city, and the area has ample opportunities for my wife’s career. OMT lab can sometimes be a real pain in the ass and the idea that at a minimum, I’ll have to take Step 1 in addition to COMLEX, sucks, but I made the decision that is allowing me to thrive. There will be stigma that you face as a DO grad but for the most part, your future career goals will be up to you and the effort that you put into creating a successful residency application. Go where you think you’ll be happiest and will thrive. Best of luck no matter what decision you make.

Thank you for this. If I could ask (privately if you would prefer), what schools did you decide between and what exactly made you choose the DO program over the MD?

 

[PhD_to_DO]

Thank you for this. If I could ask (privately if you would prefer), what schools did you decide between and what exactly made you choose the DO program over the MD?

DM me and I’ll give more soecifics.

 

[Stephen A. Smith Burner]

Can't speak on how Ponce STL will do, but the PR campus released data for the 2021-2022 year.

Scroll to page 19-22. Should give you some details on match rate, first-pass rate for boards, etc.

https://www.psm.edu/doc/Consumer%20Information%20and%20Student%20Achienvment%20Guide%202021-2022.pdf

TL DR: Average match rate for the PR campus is 80.50% pre-soap and 81.90% post-soap (averaged over 4 years), 92% graduation rate. This is the Puerto Rico campus btw, not saying this reflects the STL campus but better to be informed.

 

[Sidus1011]

Can't speak on how Ponce STL will do, but the PR campus released data for the 2021-2022 year.

Scroll to page 19-22. Should give you some details on match rate, first-pass rate for boards, etc.

https://www.psm.edu/doc/Consumer%20Information%20and%20Student%20Achienvment%20Guide%202021-2022.pdf

TL DR: Average match rate for the PR campus is 80.50% pre-soap and 81.90% post-soap (averaged over 4 years), 92% graduation rate. This is the Puerto Rico campus btw, not saying this reflects the STL campus but better to be informed.

Seems like KCU has better outcomes honestly

 

[MateoGM416]

Can't speak on how Ponce STL will do, but the PR campus released data for the 2021-2022 year.

Scroll to page 19-22. Should give you some details on match rate, first-pass rate for boards, etc.

https://www.psm.edu/doc/Consumer%20Information%20and%20Student%20Achienvment%20Guide%202021-2022.pdf

TL DR: Average match rate for the PR campus is 80.50% pre-soap and 81.90% post-soap (averaged over 4 years), 92% graduation rate. This is the Puerto Rico campus btw, not saying this reflects the STL campus but better to be informed.

Thank you for this! Had been waiting on this to come out. Yeah, that's not great, although they did match 4 people to derm.

 

[MateoGM416]

If anyone cares, I'm pretty much set on KCU-COM at their KC campus, for a couple of reasons:

1. OOS tuition at Ponce STL is $65k, which is a little much considering they're just leasing an old bank building and have not nearly the same student support as KCU does
2. Ponce is a for-profit institution :/
3. Match rates
4. KCU-COM has their own residencies through its 'GME consortium' which include most of the specialties I'm considering
5. KCU-COM is way more established and well-known than Ponce STL
6. KCU-COM has better research opportunities (more profs doing research already)
7. KCU-COM rotation sites (some of them) are at major academic hospitals whereas Ponce's rotations are at a single community hospital

For these reasons, and also because KC is closer to home (TX), I think it is worth the DO and OMM tax in this case. If anyone has any questions whether you are reading this now or years from now, please feel free to message me.

 

[Pumpkin_Sprinkles]

If anyone cares, I'm pretty much set on KCU-COM at their KC campus, for a couple of reasons:

1. OOS tuition at Ponce STL is $65k, which is a little much considering they're just leasing an old bank building and have not nearly the same student support as KCU does
2. Ponce is a for-profit institution :/
3. Match rates
4. KCU-COM has their own residencies through its 'GME consortium' which include most of the specialties I'm considering
5. KCU-COM is way more established and well-known than Ponce STL
6. KCU-COM has better research opportunities (more profs doing research already)
7. KCU-COM rotation sites (some of them) are at major academic hospitals whereas Ponce's rotations are at a single community hospital

For these reasons, and also because KC is closer to home (TX), I think it is worth the DO and OMM tax in this case. If anyone has any questions whether you are reading this now or years from now, please feel free to message me.

The assistant professor for anatomy and MEDICAL ETHICS (LMAO) at PHSU Saint Louis was also indicted for making false statements in a Medicaid fraud case involving a podiatry practice of hers. (Yes, she is also a podiatrist)

You are dodging a gigantic bullet by going somewhere else.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

The assistant professor for anatomy and MEDICAL ETHICS (LMAO) at PHSU Saint Louis was also indicted for making false statements in a Medicaid fraud case involving a podiatry practice of hers. (Yes, she is also a podiatrist)

You are dodging a gigantic bullet by going somewhere else.

Is this true??? She taught in the SMP program and always seemed on the up and up.

 

[MateoGM416]

The assistant professor for anatomy and MEDICAL ETHICS (LMAO) at PHSU Saint Louis was also indicted for making false statements in a Medicaid fraud case involving a podiatry practice of hers. (Yes, she is also a podiatrist)

You are dodging a gigantic bullet by going somewhere else.

Was it this lady?

St. Louis County Woman Pleads Guilty to Medicaid Fraud, Ordered to Pay $14,000 in Restitution

ago.mo.gov

 

[Ellesandra319]

just stumbling across this thread… can’t remember if you got an A at PHSU, but i wanted say i feel in the exact same boat thinking about going to the established DO i’ve been admitted to vs PHSU-STL (interviewed but no final decision yet). these are my 2 cents as someone who’s thought about it 6 ways to Sunday 😂. i think all the MD > DO advice you’ve been given above is true IF you feel like you personally can confidently learn and thrive academically in EITHER environment equally. that said, that’s a big if. like yes, in a vacuum, match-wise, MD>DO. but being an MD student in a school where you’re uncomfortable being somewhat of a guinea pig and failing step 1/poor performance on Step 2 is definitely <<< than being a well-resourced DO student that’s succeeding academically, with time to do research and network and do well on Steps. i’m not in a position to have to decide yet 😂, but ultimately i think you have to remember this is your life and career (and not that of randoms from SDN lol), and you have to go where YOU feel you can succeed the most. i think that will ultimately set you up the best to match well. and like i said, if you can succeed in both places equally, then sure go MD. but don’t hinder your performance just for 2 different letters after your name. that’s a guarantee for a poor match.

 

[ndcpjf]

Also, just wanted to quickly mention about the rotation site for Ponce St. Louis. Although Mercy is a “community” hospital - it does have nearly 1300 beds. I did research there as an undergrad.

 

[MateoGM416]

Also, just wanted to quickly mention about the rotation site for Ponce St. Louis. Although Mercy is a “community” hospital - it does have nearly 1300 beds. I did research there as an undergrad.

You’re right, didn’t mean to diss Mercy STL, especially cause I worked at a different Mercy hospital for a year.