Estimating future income based on 700k of student loans

2TH MVR

Orthodontist
2+ Year Member
Aug 3, 2017
1,496
3,146
North Scottsdale, Arizona
Status
  1. Dentist
Appreciate the in depth reply doc. I know everything and anything about BMW, have been working on them since junior year of high school.

My reasoning for buying vs leasing is that if I buy a car for 35k vs lease a 50k car, my payments will be similar and after 3 years for the lease, I have to trade the car back to the dealership and find something else. At least with financing I will have some form of asset that I can have to show for all the payments I made. With a lease I also won't be able to play around and swap out too many parts without getting tricky. Most of all with the lease is that their lease offers as advertised are very low mileage.

For what it is worth, I wouldn't touch a used 7 series with a 10 foot pole no matter what point of my career I am in
When I had 2 PP locations .... I leased the Porsches. You can't write off the entire lease, but a majority of the lease, all consummables, maintenance, etc were written off through the business. I did this for many yrs. Leasing makes sense if you can write it off as a partial business expense. Leasing does not make sense if you are doing this personally unless you are like @charlestweed who likes new cars every 3 yrs and have factored in longterm depreciation.
Leasing works if you are thinking short-term ownership. Owning works if you are thinking longterm ownership.

Now in Corp. My cars are all paid off. Nothing beats the feeling of not having any debt.

One more thing about leases. If you like the car .... you could always pay the residual at the end of the lease and purchase the car. The residual has to be in line with the value of other like cars in the used market.

Also. Leases have the disadvantage on mileage limitations. You want more annual mileage? Your lease will be higher. Any damage to your leased car? You pay for that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

yappy

10+ Year Member
Jul 11, 2008
3,286
671
Status
  1. Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
why I stay out of dental town. I think I will become more pessimistic and hate my job more if I keep reading DT lol.

DT is the worst. The snake oil CE ads match the quality of the average board member. Members are constantly complaining about nonsense; by all rights they should have probably never became dentists or been in healthcare.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Nov 2, 2020
2
5
Status
  1. Attending Physician
I'm scared I'm following a similar path. My cost of living will be dirt cheap at my GPR next year and I know that spending the extra 10k on an 2020 M340i will put a bigger smile on my face than the 2018. I justify it because I know no matter my financial situations having a car like that will make me the happiest person alive
If you get joy from "things" you will never have enough and never find true happiness
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
About the Ads

P7898

2+ Year Member
May 14, 2017
727
539
I commend you on at least making an effort to see the financial picture. My question is. Is dentistry really worth all this extreme budgeting, toiling, living below your means, hoping no other financial complications occur (recessions, health issues, covid, home, marriage, divorce, job issues, practice issues, etc. etc.).

It is REALLY difficult to save money over the long haul. People always say they will save, but LIFE HAPPENS. Marriage is expensive. Children are expensive. Life is expensive.

My advice. Consider 300K to 350K your maximum debt. Look into the military. Look into the other scholarship situations. Look into public health afterwards for loan repayment solutions. Get out of Cali. Locate rural/ semi rural to work in.

Dentistry is a job. Not a passion. It's a means to an end. The end is living LIFE to it's fullest. Living life is not working 25 yrs to pay off a ridiculous loan, living severely below your means, and HOPING to save 1 million dollars for the tax bomb.

I would say $300k including specialty if you decide.
 

OrphanageCaretaker

5+ Year Member
Nov 24, 2014
354
370
Status
  1. Dental Student
Oh, I didn't know you have a hobby in fixing cars. I can only do minor modifications like running wires to add a constant 12v power outlet in the trunk, installing a Qi wireless charger inside a center console, swapping wheels etc. But I have zero knowlegde about fixing the engine. In your case, buying a used car is not a bad idea and it should be a fun project for you to work on every weekend. Just keep in mind that making modifications to the car may void the warranty.

I like to lease cars because I don't want to drive the same old body style for a long time. As you know, BMW and Mercedes change the body styles every 7 years. Another reason for leasing is German cars depreciate very rapidly. The lease payments that I had made over 3 year period pretty much covered the depreciated amount. For example, I only pay around $55k ($5k down + 35 payments of $1400 a month) for a car that has a MSRP of $110k. After 3 years, I don't have to list that used car for sale. I just return it to dealer and get a new one.
You got ripped off for your lease payments.
 

charlestweed

SDN Silver Donor
10+ Year Member
Jul 10, 2007
2,178
1,684
SoCal
us.i1.yimg.com
Status
  1. Dentist
You got ripped off for your lease payments.
You would lose a lot of mone when you change to new car every 2-3 years. You would lose even more money if you buy (vs leasing) a car and then try to list it for sale (or trade it in) 2-3 years later. That's the luxury that I can afford for having additional income for working extra days (on the weekends) in a month. To enjoy life and to get what you want, you have to throw some money away. Life is too short. People like to have different things in life. Many people have spent thousands of dollars to travel around the world. Many people throw away money on gambling....or other expensive hobbies. For me, I want to change cars every 2-3 years because I get bored of cars very easily.

Another problem with buying is you tend to care more about the car that you own and you end up paying a lot of money to maintain and to fix little things. With leasing, I don't care because I don't own it. On the previous Tesla that I leased, there was a front bumper damage from hitting the side of my garage. When I brought the car in for a routine service, the Tesla service person saw the damage and quoted me $4k to replace the entire bumper. I declined and I just used touch up paint to cover the damaged area. When I returned the car at the end of the lease, I expected Tesla to charge me a couple of grands for the damage. Guess what? Tesla didn't charge me anything....just a $430 disposition fee (which is a standard fee for every lease return)....and that's it.

Only buy car, if you plan to keep it more than 5 years. And the car has to be a reliable one like Lexus, Acura, which will give you less headache (because its warranty already expired) to maintain/repair it. BMW and Mercedes, especially the 7 series and the S classes, are not reliable but they are eye catching and fun to drive.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Cold Front

Supreme Member
15+ Year Member
Dec 6, 2005
2,676
2,381
Ohio
Status
  1. Dentist
I came across an article relating to this topic earlier today, and felt it was appropriate to share it here. Mind you, this is an article from MarketWatch.... a publication owned by Dow Jones. They probably looked up the state of the profession from financial point of view (relative to student loans), and in summary think the current cost of dental education has more downside than upside in the long run.


’I thought dentists had some of the best job security’: More dental students are having second thoughts

 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

OrphanageCaretaker

5+ Year Member
Nov 24, 2014
354
370
Status
  1. Dental Student
You would lose a lot of mone when you change to new car every 2-3 years. You would lose even more money if you buy (vs leasing) a car and then try to list it for sale (or trade it in) 2-3 years later. That's the luxury that I can afford for having additional income for working extra days (on the weekends) in a month. To enjoy life and to get what you want, you have to throw some money away. Life is too short. People like to have different things in life. Many people have spent thousands of dollars to travel around the world. Many people throw away money on gambling....or other expensive hobbies. For me, I want to change cars every 2-3 years because I get bored of cars very easily.

Another problem with buying is you tend to care more about the car that you own and you end up paying a lot of money to maintain and to fix little things. With leasing, I don't care because I don't own it. On the previous Tesla that I leased, there was a front bumper damage from hitting the side of my garage. When I brought the car in for a routine service, the Tesla service person saw the damage and quoted me $4k to replace the entire bumper. I declined and I just used touch up paint to cover the damaged area. When I returned the car at the end of the lease, I expected Tesla to charge me a couple of grands for the damage. Guess what? Tesla didn't charge me anything....just a $430 disposition fee (which is a standard fee for every lease return)....and that's it.

Only buy car, if you plan to keep it more than 5 years. And the car has to be a reliable one like Lexus, Acura, which will give you less headache (because its warranty already expired) to maintain/repair it. BMW and Mercedes, especially the 7 series and the S classes, are not reliable but they are eye catching and fun to drive.
I know exactly what you mean, I have a leased BMW currently, my very good friend of mine is a broker so I know the deals roughly of what cars are out there rn, I was looking into the S450 amg package and the deal was 2k down 36 months for $880 and the car is $94k msrp, I just think the dealer screwed you out of a good deal. That's all. I lease my cars and love having fun with them and returning them 3 years later for a newer model. I'm a huge car buff. What's your take on the Taycan? I think it's a MUCH better daily than the Tesla. I know Porsche's aren't the best for leasing, but I know the Taycan 4S is 5k down 36? or 42 months? can't remember for $1400 a month.
 

charlestweed

SDN Silver Donor
10+ Year Member
Jul 10, 2007
2,178
1,684
SoCal
us.i1.yimg.com
Status
  1. Dentist
I know exactly what you mean, I have a leased BMW currently, my very good friend of mine is a broker so I know the deals roughly of what cars are out there rn, I was looking into the S450 amg package and the deal was 2k down 36 months for $880 and the car is $94k msrp, I just think the dealer screwed you out of a good deal. That's all. I lease my cars and love having fun with them and returning them 3 years later for a newer model. I'm a huge car buff. What's your take on the Taycan? I think it's a MUCH better daily than the Tesla. I know Porsche's aren't the best for leasing, but I know the Taycan 4S is 5k down 36? or 42 months? can't remember for $1400 a month.
Wow, $880 a month for an S class is a very good deal. I didn't know an S Class costs under $100k. The last S550 that I leased had an MSRP of $105k and that was in 2005. I’ve never gotten any deal that was less than $1200/month. My lease payments are higher because I drive 20k miles per year.

Taycan is a beautiful car and that’s the only thing that it is better Tesla. People buy it for status symbol. It has a much shorter range (200 miles vs Tesla’s 402 miles). If you live in a cold weather state, which requires the car’s heater to be on all the time, its range decreases significantly. You cannot fast-charge it like the Tesla. Because of the lack of supercharging network, you can’t use the Taycan for a long road trip. I’ve used my Tesla for family road trips very frequently. It doesn’t have self-driving feature, which I need for my daily commute to work. I have driven cars with this self driving feature since 2007 and I can’t go back to drive a car that doesn’t have it. The Taycan is too small (limited cargo space and leg room) for my family of 4. The Taycan’s screen size is tiny and the user interface is horrible. Tesla’s center screen keeps getting better over time because it constantly gets the OTA updates (at least 10 times in a year).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Sep 19, 2019
161
562
Weight room
Status
  1. Medical Student
700k in debt to take home 50k is mind numbing. This is literally the craziest thing I have ever seen on this site. Do not, for any reason, do this. This type of debt for school should be illegal

I do not understand how you clearly have baseline financial literacy yet are actually considering this. I hope this is a troll
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Jun 21, 2020
99
97
Status
  1. Pre-Dental
You would lose a lot of mone when you change to new car every 2-3 years. You would lose even more money if you buy (vs leasing) a car and then try to list it for sale (or trade it in) 2-3 years later. That's the luxury that I can afford for having additional income for working extra days (on the weekends) in a month. To enjoy life and to get what you want, you have to throw some money away. Life is too short. People like to have different things in life. Many people have spent thousands of dollars to travel around the world. Many people throw away money on gambling....or other expensive hobbies. For me, I want to change cars every 2-3 years because I get bored of cars very easily.

Another problem with buying is you tend to care more about the car that you own and you end up paying a lot of money to maintain and to fix little things. With leasing, I don't care because I don't own it. On the previous Tesla that I leased, there was a front bumper damage from hitting the side of my garage. When I brought the car in for a routine service, the Tesla service person saw the damage and quoted me $4k to replace the entire bumper. I declined and I just used touch up paint to cover the damaged area. When I returned the car at the end of the lease, I expected Tesla to charge me a couple of grands for the damage. Guess what? Tesla didn't charge me anything....just a $430 disposition fee (which is a standard fee for every lease return)....and that's it.

Only buy car, if you plan to keep it more than 5 years. And the car has to be a reliable one like Lexus, Acura, which will give you less headache (because its warranty already expired) to maintain/repair it. BMW and Mercedes, especially the 7 series and the S classes, are not reliable but they are eye catching and fun to drive.
That Tesla example is solid. Remindme! in 15 years reddit bot when I can start affording cars
 

mmc12

2+ Year Member
Oct 26, 2016
298
183
Status
  1. Dentist
700k in debt to take home 50k is mind numbing. This is literally the craziest thing I have ever seen on this site. Do not, for any reason, do this. This type of debt for school should be illegal

I do not understand how you clearly have baseline financial literacy yet are actually considering this. I hope this is a troll
crazy is right.

The guy in this video is a recent 21 year old college grad making 160K a year as a software developer (I assume there's even more room for salary growth). Given his age, lack of debt, and potential for compound interest on his investments, I would say he would end up ahead of most dentists.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

charlestweed

SDN Silver Donor
10+ Year Member
Jul 10, 2007
2,178
1,684
SoCal
us.i1.yimg.com
Status
  1. Dentist
crazy is right.

The guy in this video is a recent 21 year old college grad making 160K a year as a software developer (I assume there's even more room for salary growth). Given his age, lack of debt, and potential for compound interest on his investments, I would say he would end up ahead of most dentists.
For this young man to earn such good salary, he has to work and live in one of the most expensive zip code in the country, where the average home price is over $1million dollars. I am not sure if he can find a job outside of San Jose that pays him that much. A dentist can easily earn a similar income in places like Houston, where the average home price is only $300k. And for this young man to buy a house in San Jose, he will have to borrow $700k- $1million from the bank. So he will end up having the same debt amount as the dentists. The only difference is he has a 4 year headstart.

This young man seems to be a very responsible person. He ate rice and bean and worked during his college years. Even with such good salary, he plans to get a very average car.....$30-50k car. Many people would go out and buy a much more expensive car than that. If a dentist is just as repsonsible (ie hustle and live like a student for a couple of years) as this young man in the video, he/she should have no problem paying back the student loan and have a very bright future.

There are dentists who make $120-150k a year and there are dentists who make over $1million a year. Dental license is simply a "ticket" that allows you practice dentistry. With $700k debt, you have to think big. Planing to make $150k/year for the rest of your life and relying on the IBR program to pay off the student loan debt are not thinking big. OP, I didn't mean to criticize you. When I was at your age, I also thought like you.... and that was to assume the worst case scenario. I am just an average dentist....I charge low fees because that's the only way for my practice to stay openned in this oversaturated market.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users

aggie-master

Scrub
15+ Year Member
Apr 3, 2004
804
96
TX
Visit site
Status
  1. Dentist
I know exactly what you mean, I have a leased BMW currently, my very good friend of mine is a broker so I know the deals roughly of what cars are out there rn, I was looking into the S450 amg package and the deal was 2k down 36 months for $880 and the car is $94k msrp, I just think the dealer screwed you out of a good deal. That's all. I lease my cars and love having fun with them and returning them 3 years later for a newer model. I'm a huge car buff. What's your take on the Taycan? I think it's a MUCH better daily than the Tesla. I know Porsche's aren't the best for leasing, but I know the Taycan 4S is 5k down 36? or 42 months? can't remember for $1400 a month.
I just tried to do that on the Mercedes website and they quoted me $1700 a month for the cheapest S450 lease on the lot of my closest dealer. That is a crazy price difference.

I'm trying to be less materialistic when it comes to things like cars and currently drive a vehicle that cost less than 50k brand new but there is a little part of me that wouldn't mind leasing a 100k car.
 

drcobad

West Coast is Best Coast
Apr 13, 2020
365
455
Status
  1. Dentist
I just tried to do that on the Mercedes website and they quoted me $1700 a month for the cheapest S450 lease on the lot of my closest dealer. That is a crazy price difference.

I'm trying to be less materialistic when it comes to things like cars and currently drive a vehicle that cost less than 50k brand new but there is a little part of me that wouldn't mind leasing a 100k car.
If you have the right business entity (PP), you can lease one and write it off. My sister (PP outside of Dallas, TX) had the dealership send a new car to her parking lot and drove her old one off...easy peasy.
 
Last edited:

OrphanageCaretaker

5+ Year Member
Nov 24, 2014
354
370
Status
  1. Dental Student
I just tried to do that on the Mercedes website and they quoted me $1700 a month for the cheapest S450 lease on the lot of my closest dealer. That is a crazy price difference.

I'm trying to be less materialistic when it comes to things like cars and currently drive a vehicle that cost less than 50k brand new but there is a little part of me that wouldn't mind leasing a 100k car.
That's why I don't go to dealerships anymore to get a car. Only to test drive them, maybe. I didn't even test drive my current car, my friend had a crazy good deal and so I just got it. But yeah, a broker gives you a great deal, especially if you're close with them. DO NOT pay $1700 for that S450. You can practically get a Maybach S600 for that price lmao.
 

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. Your new thread title is very short, and likely is unhelpful.
  2. Your reply is very short and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  3. Your reply is very long and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  4. It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose.
  5. Your message is mostly quotes or spoilers.
  6. Your reply has occurred very quickly after a previous reply and likely does not add anything to the thread.
  7. This thread is locked.
About the Ads