Ethics of connections

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Chir0nex

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So a colleague of one of my parents is a member of the admissions board at one of my top choice med schools. When she heard I was applying she told me to send her a copy of my resume and transcripts, and she would get me an interview asap.


As it is my application is certainly at the average for acceptance at the school, if not higher, and there was no mention of pushing for an actual acceptance, just the interview.

What are the ethics of accepting her help? Is there any way that her trying to intervene could backfire on me and lower my chances? Is this sort of backchannel help common, especially for applicants with parents that know other physicians?

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LizzyM has commented before that it is not unheardof for those with special connections to be offered interviews. I would take the help and not feel bad about it. It will help you get an interview, but for consideration for admission you will more than likely be held to the same standards as anyone else, so I wouldn't worry about having an unfair advantage.
 
So a colleague of one of my parents is a member of the admissions board at one of my top choice med schools. When she heard I was applying she told me to send her a copy of my resume and transcripts, and she would get me an interview asap.


As it is my application is certainly at the average for acceptance at the school, if not higher, and there was no mention of pushing for an actual acceptance, just the interview.

What are the ethics of accepting her help? Is there any way that her trying to intervene could backfire on me and lower my chances? Is this sort of backchannel help common, especially for applicants with parents that know other physicians?

From what I've seen on this people are offered courtesy interviews if you are known by someone at the school but that is the extent of the help you will get. If you think you would have been offered an interview there anyway take it. If you think you wouldn't though without the help of this person you should think about taking it or not because your chances of getting in would be low and you would be taking an interview spot from a more qualified person who paid the application fee like everyone else but didn't know anyone at the school.
 
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Has this person met you before? If someone is going out of their way to push for you in this manner, it seems to me that it is okay if the reason is because he/sh thinks highly of you due to your past interactions and thinks that you have what it takes to be a good fit at the school (versus you being the random child of a colleague's cousin's blah blah blah roomate which is the other possible scenario based on your story). Rather than being unethical, I think it is a shame that the admissions committe can't know all applicants to the same depth as this individual knows you, if he/she does in fact know you.

If it is the second scenario, it ultimately isn't going to change your admission much. Lots of adcoms have colleagues with kids.
 
LizzyM has commented before that it is not unheardof for those with special connections to be offered interviews. I would take the help and not feel bad about it. It will help you get an interview, but for consideration for admission you will more than likely be held to the same standards as anyone else, so I wouldn't worry about having an unfair advantage.

I think this is right. Connections can get your foot in the door, which is certainly helpful, but at the end of the day if you don't meet the standards that the med-school holds for its candidates then all the connections in the world won't get you in. But it sounds like you meet the standards for this school anyways, so its not a worry.

As for the potential for backfire, I wouldn't worry too much. If this person is on the admissions committee, she knows exactly what is and isn't appropriate and most likely wouldn't be in that position if she was someone who crossed those sort of lines.
 
Use it, because I'll bet my left leg than anyone else with connections will use it too. The connections will mostly get your foot in the door & land you an interview, but it will not affect your admissions chances. You'll just get an interview invite faster.
This is pretty common. You said your stats were good enough, so the odds of you getting an interview anyway were pretty high. Don't feel bad about accepting help.
 
You would be a fool not to use a "Connection."

You have to do what you have to do.
 
Nothing wrong with using your connection. If it makes you feel better, when you try to match you will be back into a level field.
 
It's not about what you know... it's about who you know....

Meeting the right people can get you very very far in life. I don't see how using connections is not ethical.

For example: Let's say "Steve's" dad has enough money to pay for room/board/tuition ..... "Joe Schmoe" over there has to pay his own room/board/tuition and has to spend 30 hours a week at Wal mart when he could be doing O Chem problems....

Should Steve give Joe half of his dads money?... Come on now people....
 
LizzyM has commented before that it is not unheardof for those with special connections to be offered interviews. I would take the help and not feel bad about it. It will help you get an interview, but for consideration for admission you will more than likely be held to the same standards as anyone else, so I wouldn't worry about having an unfair advantage.

This advice is excellent.

OP don't worry about using this connection at all. Just be very sure that you have good reasons for wanting to go to this specific school, and you are ready to ROCK the interview. Just because if you suck at the interview, it reflects poorly on this adcom member who went out of her way.

Best of luck! :luck:
 
It's not about what you know... it's about who you know....

Meeting the right people can get you very very far in life. I don't see how using connections is not ethical.

For example: Let's say "Steve's" dad has enough money to pay for room/board/tuition ..... "Joe Schmoe" over there has to pay his own room/board/tuition and has to spend 30 hours a week at Wal mart when he could be doing O Chem problems....

Should Steve give Joe half of his dads money?... Come on now people....

Your logic is not flawed here. Connections will get you far. But if you're a social re-****, or just an overall idiot, I don't think anyone will want to touch you.

Also, if you have institutional action against you for plagiarism/cheating... all the connections in the world wouldn't help you.
 
This advice is excellent.

OP don't worry about using this connection at all. Just be very sure that you have good reasons for wanting to go to this specific school, and you are ready to ROCK the interview. Just because if you suck at the interview, it reflects poorly on this adcom member who went out of her way.

Best of luck! :luck:

No pressure though :p
 
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It's fascinating to me how American society uses connections for anything (most jobs people actually get and keep are by knowing someone on the inside, not by responding to ads or walking in off the street) but maintains a position of who-me denial (oh, we're a meritocracy! anyone can do anything! :whistle:)

When I worked in China I found it enormously refreshing that people acknowledged 'guanxi' and admitted to it. I'd prefer for this stuff to be blatant than swept under the rug. It'll never be 100% fair or unbiased no matter what we do about it, and, just as in the laboratory, acknowledging biases makes it easier to understand their effects and work around them.
 
The person who you want to have a connection to is the Vice Dean of Admissions, or the Dean of The Medical School. THE Dean can't get you in per se, but they get what they want as they have all the power. Academic medicine is an interesting beast.
If you have any inside connections that could help you, you'd be a fool not to try to use them. Of course, if your application is weak, you're done. They would look like a fool to "recommend" or accept you, only to have you struggle to pass, or god forbid, not be able to pass the USMLE.
 
Think of it as a very powerful LOR ;)

And I agree that we should not deny that gathering connections and making use of them is a very effective way to success and it trumps merit up to an extent, it sort of confuses people.
 
It's fascinating to me how American society uses connections for anything (most jobs people actually get and keep are by knowing someone on the inside, not by responding to ads or walking in off the street) but maintains a position of who-me denial (oh, we're a meritocracy! anyone can do anything! :whistle:)
Your understanding of how things work here is WAY off. The percentage of any med school class representing undeserving applicants who are there only because of contacts is minuscule. And in many instances, zero.

Many (not all) successful applicants get more than one acceptance. Be one of those and don't worry about something you don't seem to understand and can't control anyway.

When I worked in China I found it enormously refreshing that people acknowledged 'guanxi' and admitted to it. I'd prefer for this stuff to be blatant than swept under the rug. It'll never be 100% fair or unbiased no matter what we do about it, and, just as in the laboratory, acknowledging biases makes it easier to understand their effects and work around them.
From what I've heard, what makes the world go 'round in China is corruption and government whim, not relationships. But if you like it better there, why are you here?
 
I don't see anything wrong with people using "connections"

They are ultimately seeking people who will make good physicians and having a parent etc who is a physician (and who can speak for you) is probably a pretty good indicator that you will make it through med school
 
As has been mentioned, "knowing someone" on the inside may get you an interview at the school, but from there you are on your own.

LCME accreditation standards require that offers of admissions be extended only after a positive recommendation has been issued by a voting admissions committee made up of primarily faculty members. No single person, including the school dean, has the sole power to admit a candidate. It also specifically states that admission offers given for political or financial favors are forbidden.

There is nothing unethical about having connections. In the business world they call that networking.
 
As has been mentioned, "knowing someone" on the inside may get you an interview at the school, but from there you are on your own.

LCME accreditation standards require that offers of admissions be extended only after a positive recommendation has been issued by a voting admissions committee made up of primarily faculty members. No single person, including the school dean, has the sole power to admit a candidate. It also specifically states that admission offers given for political or financial favors are forbidden.

There is nothing unethical about having connections. In the business world they call that networking.

qft

A few years ago at a state school a Dean (not the dean of admissions but the "big" Dean) over-road the decision of an adcom (due to pressure from the U President who was being pressured in all likelihood by elected officals who were influenced by a big supporter/fundraiser). The adcom revolted and blew the whistle on the Dean. The Dean's head rolled (he resigned as Dean).
 
That's why I personally don't agree with putting a lot of money and power in the hands of elected officials. Networking happens (part of us being human). I am glad that this time people acted against this passive abuse of power.
 
qft

A few years ago at a state school a Dean (not the dean of admissions but the "big" Dean) over-road the decision of an adcom (due to pressure from the U President who was being pressured in all likelihood by elected officals who were influenced by a big supporter/fundraiser). The adcom revolted and blew the whistle on the Dean. The Dean's head rolled (he resigned as Dean).

That was sort of an extreme case tho, I believe the student in question had neither applied for that school nor taken the MCAT.
 
That was sort of an extreme case tho, I believe the student in question had neither applied for that school nor taken the MCAT.

WHAAAAAAAAT?

No MCAT, and NO application? What the....

As much as we'd like to say stuff like this doesn't happen, there are people who gain admission solely because of a connection. I know of a few instances..

They wrote a decent MCAT... and had an average GPA and almost zero ECs... but because they knew someone, they garnered an acceptance from a Top 20 school.

It's deplorable, but c'est la vie. I know there are a few schools that I applied to in Canada, when determining who to give an interview to... MCAT cut off and GPA cut off must be met. Otherwise, no dice.

No exceptions. The dean's daughter was 1 point short on the MCAT score cut off and she didn't get an interview. That was when I put my faith in this schools application process, because of its fairness.
 
This was at UF and the kid's dad was one of former Fl Gov crist's biggest donors.

WHAAAAAAAAT?

No MCAT, and NO application? What the....

As much as we'd like to say stuff like this doesn't happen, there are people who gain admission solely because of a connection. I know of a few instances..

They wrote a decent MCAT... and had an average GPA and almost zero ECs... but because they knew someone, they garnered an acceptance from a Top 20 school.

It's deplorable, but c'est la vie. I know there are a few schools that I applied to in Canada, when determining who to give an interview to... MCAT cut off and GPA cut off must be met. Otherwise, no dice.

No exceptions. The dean's daughter was 1 point short on the MCAT score cut off and she didn't get an interview. That was when I put my faith in this schools application process, because of its fairness.
 
OP, what you have to realize is given the oppurtunity like 99% of people would use this. So, just do it, and don't look back.
 
OP, what you have to realize is given the oppurtunity like 99% of people would use this. So, just do it, and don't look back.

While you are correct it's not even about who wouldn't or would do this.

It's just not unethical.
 
from what i've heard, lots of people are pulling strings and using connections. No harm done, don't get guilt tripped into not using it. The final decision will speak for itself.
 
It's not ethical, but it's not like doctors are paragons of ethics.
 
It's not ethical, but it's not like doctors are paragons of ethics.

Many things in life are as much about who you know as what you know. That's just the way it is. This is especially true in the business world. There, connections are usually called networking. It's not unethical for the dean to trust the judgement of a colleague who calls him and vouches for you. Connections are like a super charged letter of recommendation. There's NOTHING unethical about it. The governor calling the president of the university to insure an admission for a politico's son, that's different.
Is it unethical that I was on the wait list of a certain country club for 13 months when the wait time is 6 years. Probably, but it's a private club. Is it unethical that my wife accepted an offer for an executive opening at a company who's president and COO were former colleagues of hers before the position was listed anywhere? Nope. Favoritism from veterans to other vets? Happens all the time. Your old chief resident from when you were an intern taking your resume and presenting it to the group at the fancy Private practice gig? Networking, happens very day. Connections are a part of the game. You don't need them, but they sure are nice to have.
 
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I think a lot of people in here are underestimating the power that having connections to adcoms has. It can get you much more than just an interview.
 
Your understanding of how things work here is WAY off. The percentage of any med school class representing undeserving applicants who are there only because of contacts is minuscule. And in many instances, zero.

Many (not all) successful applicants get more than one acceptance. Be one of those and don't worry about something you don't seem to understand and can't control anyway.


From what I've heard, what makes the world go 'round in China is corruption and government whim, not relationships. But if you like it better there, why are you here?


Jobs, not medical school acceptances. Did you read my post before responding to it?

I am aware that the power of connections with regards to med school is far smaller. Believe me, I have a personal reason to be aware of this: I have a strong family connection at one medical school and I'm not even applying there because of a requirements mismatch. But several different publically available statistics say the majority of jobs are found through networking and personal contacts. (People keep quoting a 70% stat from the BLS that I can't track down, but there are a number of informal polls and surveys that back it up.)

I described one aspect of life in China that I favored (that they're honest and open about using connections.) There are many aspects I was not so fond of - their government's tendency to make really stupid decisions is among them.

And the pollution. Oh, the pollution. :barf:

Anyway: if I liked the food, too, am I automatically endorsing the government? Good grief, I'll have to switch to eating Swedish food if that's so. It's on a count-on-one-hand list of governments I vaguely approve of - good Gini coefficient and such. (Whereas the US is down there with Turkmenistan.)

...Is it really so unusual for someone to live in a country for a while and find that the experience is neither 100% good nor 100% terrible? Life is complex. Cultures are complex. They can't be reduced to their governments and certainly can't be reduced to the American rumor mill. (But I think I'll save my rant about that another day.)
 
But several different publically available statistics say the majority of jobs are found through networking and personal contacts. (People keep quoting a 70% stat from the BLS that I can't track down, but there are a number of informal polls and surveys that back it up.)
There's a saying, I may get it wrong, that 90% of stats cited on the internet are fabricated, the other 10 percent are lies. Including the preceding ;-)

Your assertion is implausible on its face.

I think you are confusing referrals and references with connections. Say an employer (a company, a school, no matter) is looking for someone with certain qualifications and background. They might ask people they know (in their network) "Do you know anyone like this and so?" If a name is supplied, that's a referral (the employer is looking for information), not a connection. The person may get an interview because they are referred for having appropriate characteristics and they are thought to be appropriate, not simply because they are known by someone in power. I suspect what you're thinking about in China is more favoritism and nepotism, not referrals. That's a connection, a completely different matter. To get a job (in other than a family business) or a school spot solely though such a connection is rare here.


...Is it really so unusual for someone to live in a country for a while and find that the experience is neither 100% good nor 100% terrible? Life is complex. Cultures are complex. They can't be reduced to their governments and certainly can't be reduced to the American rumor mill. (But I think I'll save my rant about that another day.)
Yes, there's lots to learn in other countries. But honesty and openness is not a lesson to learn in China. Nepotism and favoritism are forms of corruption, it's a way of staffing with people who will be loyal because they owe you for their job.
 
Interesting discussion. So, why is not okay to use your connection (adcom member) to get into med school if you are intimate with that person?
 
Many things in life are as much about who you know as what you know. That's just the way it is. This is especially true in the business world. There, connections are usually called networking. It's not unethical for the dean to trust the judgement of a colleague who calls him and vouches for you. Connections are like a super charged letter of recommendation. There's NOTHING unethical about it. The governor calling the president of the university to insure an admission for a politico's son, that's different.
Is it unethical that I was on the wait list of a certain country club for 13 months when the wait time is 6 years. Probably, but it's a private club. Is it unethical that my wife accepted an offer for an executive opening at a company who's president and COO were former colleagues of hers before the position was listed anywhere? Nope. Favoritism from veterans to other vets? Happens all the time. Your old chief resident from when you were an intern taking your resume and presenting it to the group at the fancy Private practice gig? Networking, happens very day. Connections are a part of the game. You don't need them, but they sure are nice to have.

I'm sure we all realize that ethics is dependent upon the well-founded beliefs of individuals and the societies surrounding them. It is up to a person to take advantage of the resources they have... and anybody asking ethical questions should rather ask: What are the real consequences, not the ethical ones.

It's not whether it is "okay" or not, but whether you accept responsibility for your own choice and realize its consequences.

Society is ultimately flawed and so very human. :cool:
 
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