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ethnicity? Can it help you get in?

Discussion in 'Pre-Pharmacy' started by Kingstun, Mar 13, 2007.

  1. Kingstun

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    Im 3/4 cherokee Indian i have a 3.2 gpa:( . I am taking the pcat in June. Ive been studying for 6 months now. I have 9 months tech experince a crap load of voulenteer work. Is there any way that being native american would increase my chances of being accepted?
     
  2. KellyBean

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    No, but your PCAT and experience might help you.
     
  3. OP
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    Kingstun

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    crap! that really isn't what i wanted to hear! lol
     
  4. RX CARE

    RX CARE Eye Have You!!
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    I think SWOSU actually recognizes native americans.
     
  5. KellyBean

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    3.2 is actually not a bad GPA and if you really do well on your PCAT and apply early and broadly, you might get into a few schools. I know people with lower GPA than that getting in all the time. Just do well on your PCAT.
     
  6. Dr.Biassi

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    I don't think anybody who said No is telling the truth. They just don't want to face the truth. In the midstates like everywhere in the US, minority such as African Americans, American-Indians and Hispanic are favored when it comes to professional schools. You need to get good grades and good records though. A B+ and an average score on the PCAT and good recommendations with some experience will get you in pharmacy school. Make sure you look into school that want to increase their quota of minority. I read on some pharmacy schools website that : " Minority are encouraged to apply" means what? If you are a minority with an average records you can get in. With your records a bunch of school in the midwest that want to increase their minority students will accept you in pharmacy. As soon as I remenber those school I read stuff on I will post it here
     
  7. KARM12

    KARM12 Super Member
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    Yes it will help you...schools are always looking for diversity. Your GPA and experience aren't bad either. So while your ethnicity may help you get in...you still deserve to be there. If the application asks, make sure you put it down. There are very few native americans, hispanics, and african americans at many schools.
     
  8. Pharm47

    Pharm47 Just keep running...
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    I agree that it will help you. Especially if you express interest in later working in an underserved area such as the Indian Health Service. In fact, some pharmacy schools (OSU) require that one of your rotations take place in a rural location, such as the Warm Springs Health Center. Use your personal statement to talk about your passion for your community and pharmacy, and I think you'll at least get an interview. From there, it's up to your charming personality:)
     
  9. OP
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    Kingstun

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    That can be hard when I don't look like an indian and i have little to no knowledge about my tribe. However, I have been extremely active in my community. With voulenteer work for hurricane katrina refugees, working at orphanages, and coaching a youth wrestling program for 2 years. But, I haven't done anything for the indian community.

    When you say OSU did you mean oklahoma state university? or did you mean ohio state university or oregon state university?
     
  10. Idesiretosling

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    Oregon State University. They do not require PCAT either.
     
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  11. tungywungy

    tungywungy New Member
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    Since you're native american, you can get all your tuition paid for in pharmacy school if you sign up for it. And it'll probably help you out a bit in applying too.
     
  12. Farmercyst

    Farmercyst From the shadows
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    Idesiretosling is right, Pharm47 meant Oregon State.

    By itself Native American heritage or any other racial characteristic won't do anything for you. It all depends on how you present that heritage and what other background characteristics you bring to the school.

    If you don't know anything about the heritage, culture, history of your tribe, I'd say you'd be better off not bringing it up than trying to explain at an interview why you mentioned it, but don't really know anything about it.

    Even among the predominantly minority serving schools (you can read on here about "historically" african-american schools, etc) there will be competition for those spots. It may benefit you if you bring the right stats, the right personality, the right amount of determination, but by itself race will not be enough.

    Having said that, if you're looking for a school that may/could/might give preference to a tribal member I'd check schools in states with a large number of Tribal communities. ND, SD, MT,ID,AZ,OK. These aren't the only ones but ones where Native populations compared to Non-native populations would give better ratios. You could also look at FL, CA, UT. I'm sure there are others I'm leaving out, but these are the ones I'm most familiar with.
     
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  13. cycloketocaine

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    Oklahoma State dosen't have a pharmacy school. I'm Cherokee too, and I am sure to note it on my apps. (In the place that asks for race)
     
  14. OP
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    Kingstun

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    yeah I know thats why I was asking looking back it was a pretty obvious question whoops :idea:
     
  15. KUMoose

    KUMoose Grumpy old man
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    Do you think you should get a leg up because you're 3/4 something? Kinda like royalty that expects the world to fall at their feet because of the womb they were pushed from?

    In answer to the question, it can be a factor but not a major factor. USSC (Grutter v Bollinger) said that it could only be used in a narrow scope to enhance diversity. Unfortunately for you, gender aside, most classes in pharmacy school are already diverse. Schools take generally an equal share from the population that applies

    Instead of looking to sneak in a side window, why don't you try to kick down a few front doors with a high PCAT, outstanding interview and, if you are worried about a low GPA, look at boosting the GPA a tad.
     
  16. kittycatblues

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    I agree with this.


    University of Iowa has a program that gives in-state tuition to any student who is a member of a tribe that is historic to Iowa, but Cherokee isn't on the list. http://www.uiowa.edu/~provost/oi/ifn/tuition
     
  17. Sarapary

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    It is not a side window. It is reality. The challenges that minorities have in this country is a reality. The background of a person, the historic challenges;all of them are reality and fortunately many school they do consider these factors. Because these are experiences that add on your personality , you can be a better pharmacist when you feel the pain of people from every class and every background from the bottom of your heart because you have been in that situation before. Being a good pharmacist is not just having a good GPA, it means how you behave to people and how much undrestanding you have for them...
     
  18. omnione

    omnione SDN Pharmoderator
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    This issue is an interesting one where both sides have a valid argument.

    KUMoose alludes to a good point where a true color-blind society means that we shouldn't make decisions with a slant for or against one's ethnicity. One's true merit should be the true factor for school admissions or any other decision between two individuals. If one doesn't want race to take prevent him or her from attaining a position, then then person had better not use race to help get a position either.

    Likewise, we shouldn't be naive to believe that discrimination is gone and that all races are truly equal in society. Though we are MUCH better off that people during the Civil Rights Movement and before that, there are racial, gender, class, and other disparities today. As Sarapary describes, these struggles help define a person's resolve, so it's not too unethical to search for places that recognize disparities and extenuating circumstances.

    Overall, we hear the "life isn't always fair" when talking about situations beyond our control. However, this saying should not imply that we as members of a society should not work toward making situations as fair as possible. In the context of pharmacy school admissions, there should be a movement toward understanding every applicant in context.
     
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  19. brasilia01

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    I wasn't going to respond but well, this type of thing aggrevates me. I completely disagree with you. I hope no schools base acceptance on race, but on merit and character. To me basing acceptances on race is like spitting on the civil rights movement. The civil rights movement was about equality. Accepting someone because of their skin color is not showing equality. It should be like what MLK said about not of the color of their skin but on the content of their character. So Sarapary are you saying that a white male can never face challenges? If you think this than you are completely ignorant. What I'm saying is that everyone faces challenges in their life, and acceptance should not be based on skin color, but maybe economic conditions. I can understand that more, because I do think some people have more opportunities than others, so maybe that should be a factor, but definitely not race. I think accpeting people based on one's skin color perpetuates racism, and a divided people. Are you also saying that a white male can't feel the pain of people from every class and every background? Because that is certainly what you are implying. Plus just because you are a certain race, that doesn't dictate the experiences you have. I have known several black, hispanic, and native americans that have not lived that the type of situations that you are referring to. Plus I think it's an insult to every minority to say that acceptance should be based on race, because to me its like saying that your not good enough on merit alone, so we let you in based on your skin color. Its straighout offensive.
     
  20. Sarapary

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    If you read my post again you will see that I didn't say admission should be based "just" on race. But I believe cultural barrier and personal challenges definetly has great effect on people. When some people follow their wishes while struggeling with daily challenges as minorities (race or economic or any type of difficulties) of course it makes them stronger people. Interview is for recognizing these values.

    I come from a middle eastern background, I wear scarf because I am a muslim woman and you can immagine how people react when I am looking for job and opportunity. At the same time my father-in-law threats me because he doesn't like his sister-in-law become an educated woman.... I can go on, but I did my best and I know that if I had not have all these problems maybe I could have better GPA but I wrote about my struggles in my personal statement and I believe it was one of the factors that helped me for my acceptance.
     
  21. brasilia01

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    Everyone struggles. Its called life. Do you think white people have it easy? Everyone has their own difficulties. I am a white male and mormon, and I could go off about how people discriminate us, how the government executed an extermination order on all mormons in the past, but I don't think I should be accepted just because I'm mormon. Plus my GPA could be a whole lot better had I not taken off two years of school to serve a mission for my church, and forgetting everything that i learned before. To me it would be an insult if I was accepted into pharmacy school because I was mormon and not on merit. What I'm saying is that everyone has stuggles and its not necessarily not just because of race. So why turn everything into a race issue? It shouldn't be about the color of your skin don't you understand. There are other factors that admissions committee should look at like you said, economic, and personal struggles, but I still disagree it shouldn't be about race.
     
  22. KellyBean

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    I just told them that I had to work 2 jobs to support myself and going to school full time, that's why my GPA is not as high. Maybe they accepted me cause they felt sorry for me. If I had a choice, I wouldn't work that much. It's nice being able to enjoy the college life without having to worry about everything else. Yeah, it's life and people struggle, some more than other.
     
  23. Sarapary

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    First of all, I live in Utah so I know how mormons live. I have mormon friends. Second, minority issue is different than race isuue; many racial conflicts are minority issues, but not all minority issues are racial. and YES I think you should bring all of those things that you said in your personal statement and interview. I believe you are a minority if you live outside of utah and you may have your struggles. This is why you call this country "Land of Opportunity", because people no mater how hard is their conditons, they can still find the way toward their wishes, compare to so many other countries which they JUST look at your GPA. (BTW I may know you :) )
     
  24. Sarapary

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    Some schools perefer more female students and some schools want more diversity you can look at the description of the schools on the pharmcas and their factors for admission.
     
  25. OSUpharmy

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    Some of the colleges wouldn't let me in because they had already met their good-looking quota. ;)
     
  26. Sarapary

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    :laugh:
     
  27. Farmercyst

    Farmercyst From the shadows
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    Does that mean OSU hadn't yet? Do you think they have a fogey quota, or maybe a gray hair quota? I'm still waiting to hear, maybe I could add that to my app.:rolleyes:
     
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  28. OSUpharmy

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    non-Maltanese old fogeys need not apply.
     
  29. pharmdiva

    pharmdiva Accepted pharmacy student
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    Personally, I do believe that there are obstacles that are unique to minority status. This does not in any way diminish the struggles of white males or any other group in particular. The reason that programs need to be in place to encourage diversity is simply because one cannot expect the damage done by generations of racism and sexism to have been repaired overnight. the Civil Rights movement is less that 50 years old. It will take a long time to right the past wrongs. Therefore, race and ethnicity cannot be eliminated in evaluating a candidate. Obviously, it cannot be expected to be the only factor considered, and I doubt anyone would argue for that position. I am a African-American female of Jamaican descent so I span a few minority groups. When I begin interviewing for pharmacy school I expect to be a good candidate due to my bachelors degree from Baylor, my decent (stress decent) gpa, and my high pcat score. If the admissions committee chooses to consider my minority status...fine with me. But I know that when (stress on when) I get accepted it will be because they felt I would be an addition to their program - minority or not:)
     
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  30. OP
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    Kingstun

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    Hey grumpy old man! No, I do not think that I deserve a "leg up" or anything like that. However, I do know that I will do what ever it takes to achieve a goal that I have set for myself. And if you think that the USSC ( Grutter v Bollinger ) carries a lot of weight to it when schools are looking ath the diversity im pretty sure you live in a land of make-believe and fairy tales. I do feel that merit should be the only factor. However, In the real world it is a factor. If it weren't minorities would complain because they weren't being accepted into schools. I if you look at Harvard law school the bottom half of the class are usually african americans, and they sometimes do not have any better crudentials than a persian or asian person who was wait listed.



    Prestigious?
     
  31. jun99

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    I fully believe that people should be given special consideration if they've faced adversity and disadvantages in life, including those that manifested as a result of race. However, I do think that at times the practice of giving priority on the basis of race is unfair and unjustified.

    Example: I had a friend growing up whose parents were Cuban, so he was technically considered hispanic. I say "technically" because he looked very caucasian -- very light skin, green eyes, caucasian-looking features. His parents were also very well off and he grew up getting virtually everything he ever wanted -- a very generous allowance, all the latest electronics that he was into, a live-in maid (toward whom he was very bratty and borderline abusive). Needless to say he was quite spoiled and lazy. In both high school and college he did the bare minimum to pass classes, and learned tricks to pass exams rather than actually being interested in what he was learning. He had ambitions to get into the music business, but his parents forced him to go to law school. Both his GPA and LSAT scores were decent, but by no means stellar, and he ended up getting into quite a good law school. Now, I have no proof that the reason he got in was because he was able to check off the hispanic box on his application, but I do have other friends who had higher grades, higher test scores, and a lot more ambition and extracurriculars who didn't get into schools of the same caliber.

    If his situation and life circumstances were different, (i.e. if people discriminated against him, if he was poor and had to work through school, if he even really wanted to go to law school) I would probably feel very differently about him getting in. But the fact of the matter is that he doesn't face descrimination (because nobody knows he is hispanic unless he chooses to tell them!) He's lived an easy, affluent life, and he DIDN'T EVEN WANT TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL! Meanwhile there are plenty of capable people who have an earnest ambition to get into law school, who've worked harder, and have the scores, grades, and extracurriculars to back up their desire and competence....and who don't quite make it because someone else who applied happened to be a "minority".
     
  32. LordOfTheDance

    LordOfTheDance I'm Awesome
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  33. Pharm47

    Pharm47 Just keep running...
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    Rather than focusing on race/ethnicity, I feel schools should give consideration to socioeconomic status. Should the minority kid who's dad is an MD and grew up in Beverly Hills get special consideration when applying to profession school? IMO, no. Should the minority kid who worked thoughout high school and college to support his family living in inner-city LA get special consideration? IMO, yes. All things aren't equal. Person 1 probably had access to better schools, SAT prep, better college, PCAT prep, etc. Thus, if Person 2's grades are lower, test scores are lower, schools should take into considerations WHY. It isn't due to a lack of motivation or intelligence...if anything, that person may have more motivation!

    Anyway...thought I'd contribute that.

    As a side note, in my Psych class the other day, the prof mentioned that Native Americans are the poorest socioeconomic group in the United States...
     
  34. bsmspharmd

    bsmspharmd Senior Member
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    Tell your psych professor that he's wrong. "Native American" is not a "socioeconomic group" it is an ethnicity. Native Americans are the poorest ethnicity in the US. The poorest "socioeconomic group" in the US is "poor people."

    Of course, this distinction is just based on semantics, but it's relevant in light of your previous points. Poor Native Americans require special consideration because they're poor, not because they're Native American.
     
  35. senzabee

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    I agree with Pharm47. The only reason people are arguing for the underrepresented minority is that a lot of them have faced adversities. But does that mean that all people of that ethnicity have faced the same problems? No. I think your ethnicity will help you in some ways, but only if you use it in the right way. Don't come across as, "Oh I'm ______ ethnicity, we are in the minority. Admit me." Ask yourself, what has happened to you that really put you in the minority? Have you experienced being turned down at clinics, your parents working two jobs each or the true problems associated with being in the minority? All I ask is that you don't play the "race card" but that, if you want to connect something to your ethnicity, connect it to something personal.

    On a side note, I think it will help you get scholarships more than anything :p
     
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