EU citizen, US med school, UK residency?

[rh498]

Hi,

I'm an undergaduate, pre-med student in the US. I was born in Ireland and spent a lot of time there growing up, so I have Irish/EU citizenship as well as US citizenship. I want to get the best education possible, regardless of number of years (though I know I'd like to know those too). I plan on becoming a neurosurgeon and my undergraduate degree will be a BS in Neuroscience. I'll be keeping my options open but just that area is where my interest lies.

I believe I want to move to Europe permanently, eventually, and practice there as a neurosurgeon (consultant in the UK). I will probably move to the UK (London, specifically) but once again, options are open (sort of- I know it's hard to get a position as a neurosurgeon because it's a highly specialized field much fewer hospitals have neurosurgeons, if they do have one, they might not be hiring another, etc.)

I would like to do med school in the US, just because I've already started in the American system and it seems easier to switch over to the UK system (without repeating much/anything) after I graduate medical school. How would that work? Will the test I take to become an MD after med school (in the US) count in the UK? Will I take another test? Will I have to do F1 and F2 to do neurosurgery residency in the UK even though much/most or all of what that includes is done in the last year or two of US med school? I know that UK and the US may look down upon each other's med schools, residency programs, etc. but how could that play out in my situation?

I know the levels of residency are characterized a bit differently in the UK, please feel free to explain what that would mean for me as a future resident in my field.

Since I have spent every other summer in Ireland since birth, I've visited England and Wales, and I've lived in Scotland for a year, I know what I'm getting into when I say I want to live in the UK for the rest of my life. I was just wondering, say I do become a consultant in London, could I ever return to the US to practice? (I don't believe I want to, I'm just wondering) Would I redo some/all years of residency? Take a test?

Furthermore, I currently work in a research lab in the US and I'm considering doing research as an MD in the UK. Laws on that? I'm doing benchwork stuff now with rats, but I'm in transition to a clinical research study group that works with patients with a certain type of neurodegenerative disease. Laws on being an MD and doing research in the UK? Even though doctors are restricted to a certain number of hours of work, clinical research hours would not be included in that correct? Even though that involves hours in the clinic, working with patients who would be involved in studies?

Thanks SO much, information on an EU/US dual citizen and medicine is hard to come by!

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[leorl]

yeah, that's because situations like yours are pretty much uncharted territory, and there are no set guidelines.

As an EU citizen, options are more open to you and especially in a surgical field, having US experience would definitely benefit you. Doing your residency in the US (you'd have taken USMLE step 3 by the completion of it), you would be eligible to practice in the US, obviously. However, if you leave for the UK directly after residency without having any clinical experience in the US as an attending, it might hinder your chances of coming back to the US to practice, should you wish to do so in the future.

Also, doing your residency (and fellowship) solely in the US could mean that you would have to repeat Higher specialist training (their version of fellowship) in the UK system, which might be very hard to do as getting on a higher specialist scheme is quite difficult. You probably would be a good candidate though. I don't think you'd have to start over and do F1/F2. You'd probably have to do the PLAB and the MRCS exams (which have different components, including a clinical component). And as you know, the UK way of testing is very different from the US way of testing, with which you'd have gotten used to by completing US residency.

As far as being an MD, in the UK, they would not recognize your medical degree as an MD. So I guess you'd be considered an MBBS and would not be referred to as an MD until you had done your MD research in the UK. I don't know the likelihood of obtaining a research post to qualify you as a UK MD for applicants earning medical degrees outside the UK system, but you could certainly try. It would also depend on what kind of research you'd be looking for, in surgery specialities, much of the research is from live specimens coming from the OR and would not involve clinic patients too much (unless they come in for elective procedures...)

 

[bambi]

You do not cover F1 and F2 in the last year of US med school. As an F1 you are a doctor! You have responsibilities (though not loads) and are not comparable to any med student of any level in any country. If you studied in the US you would of course have to do foundation years and then apply for ST jobs. It is very competitive, each deanery will only have about 2 places and a deanery is a pretty big area, it is a national application process for neurosurg so even if you got a job you could end up somewhere you hate.

You would not have to do the PLAB.