Every patient deserves an RN.. Oh the hypocrisy..

[anes121508]

Agreed. As much as I want to bash these nurses, I have to say, they are not CRNAs.
I have seen how some CRNAs treat their fellow RNs. It’s quite disgusting. They act so elitist, like they were never in their shoes. They really look down on them.

So so so so true. I’ll never forget first time I saw this.

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[anes121508]

Oh yeah, just look at how nasty the entire CRNA community was when it was suggested they be utilized as ICU RNs if a huge need arose. They were beyond awful about it - showed everyone exactly what they think of “nursing” as a profession.

So true. I’ve heard it out of the mouths of many. Sort of shocked. Escpecially in times like these. Me personally, I’m not above doing anything. It’s all hands on deck. I’ve been playing icu doc, rt, nurse, housekeeping, whatever it takes to just provide good care and help.

The lack of real icu nurses is really hurting nyc. It’s ed traveling nurses and floor nurses. And people are dying because of it. Icu nurses have many skills. For crnas to ball and refuse in times like these is sickening. I’m seeing patients with bad outcomes more because of poor icu care than covid. The nurses are trying, but they are ed and floor nurses and just don’t have the knowledge base and experience to care for a complex multi-organ failure covid patient in the icu. When it’s all said and done I guarantee that we will look back and realize we lost people due to lack of adequate nursing care. The fact that the crna governing body refused is sad. Shows true colors and incentives.

 

[anes121508]

So true. I’ve heard it out of the mouths of many. Sort of shocked. Escpecially in times like these. Me personally, I’m not above doing anything. It’s all hands on deck. I’ve been playing icu doc, rt, nurse, housekeeping, whatever it takes to just provide good care and help.

The lack of real icu nurses is really hurting nyc. It’s ed traveling nurses and floor nurses. And people are dying because of it. Icu nurses have many skills. For crnas to ball and refuse in times like these is sickening. I’m seeing patients with bad outcomes more because of poor icu care than covid. The nurses are trying, but they are ed and floor nurses and just don’t have the knowledge base and experience to care for a complex multi-organ failure covid patient in the icu. When it’s all said and done I guarantee that we will look back and realize we lost people due to lack of adequate nursing care. The fact that the crna governing body refused is sad. Shows true colors and incentives.

Also, to clarify ....it’s one thing to refuse because of fear of your life. It’s another to refuse because you feel you are above it.

 

[anes121508]

Oh yeah, just look at how nasty the entire CRNA community was when it was suggested they be utilized as ICU RNs if a huge need arose. They were beyond awful about it - showed everyone exactly what they think of “nursing” as a profession.

They should be blasted for this. People are dying as a result. I’m seeing it with my own eyes. It’s really sad. True colors is all I have to say.

 

[46Long]

So true. I’ve heard it out of the mouths of many. Sort of shocked. Escpecially in times like these. Me personally, I’m not above doing anything. It’s all hands on deck. I’ve been playing icu doc, rt, nurse, housekeeping, whatever it takes to just provide good care and help.

The lack of real icu nurses is really hurting nyc. It’s ed traveling nurses and floor nurses. And people are dying because of it. Icu nurses have many skills. For crnas to ball and refuse in times like these is sickening. I’m seeing patients with bad outcomes more because of poor icu care than covid. The nurses are trying, but they are ed and floor nurses and just don’t have the knowledge base and experience to care for a complex multi-organ failure covid patient in the icu. When it’s all said and done I guarantee that we will look back and realize we lost people due to lack of adequate nursing care. The fact that the crna governing body refused is sad. Shows true colors and incentives.

If this is true, ( are there reports confirming this?), put the report of lack of qualified ICU nurses next to the AANA declaration that they dont want to go back to the icu to help and have the public look at it.

Are these the kind of professionals you want to be independent? Cancel their independent status..

 

[deleted480308]

I'm 100% against independent crnas but the fact that they don't want to be icu nurses is not relevant

 

[46Long]

I'm 100% against independent crnas but the fact that they don't want to be icu nurses is not relevant

Oh, it is VERY relevant!!!

 

[chocomorsel]

They should be blasted for this. People are dying as a result. I’m seeing it with my own eyes. It’s really sad. True colors is all I have to say.

I saw this too but I don’t know what their back ground is. I feel like everyone, including the docs are overwhelmed and that is also leading to poor outcomes.
Nurses routinely were caring for four critical patients and some weekends I am told they were taking care of five or six.
Not good for the patients. NY does need help.

 

[deleted480308]

Oh, it is VERY relevant!!!

nope, the shouldn't be independent because their training isn't adequate

the fact that they don't want to an icu nurse doesn't have anything to do with their lack of qualifications for independence. They don't owe anyone service as an icu nurse

 

[anes121508]

If this is true, ( are there reports confirming this?), put the report of lack of qualified ICU nurses next to the AANA declaration that they dont want to go back to the icu to help and have the public look at it.

Are these the kind of professionals you want to be independent? Cancel their independent status..

Yes this is true. I am in nyc. Traveling ED nurses working in makeshift icu caring for complex ards multi organ failure patients on cvvh and multiple pressors.

It’s sad. Poor care. You can only imagine what happens when a travel ED nurse has 3-4 patients who are all vented and have nitric, multiple pressors, cvvh, paralytics ect. Why do you think 88% mortality of patients intubated in nyc was reported? It isn’t all covid.

 

[anes121508]

I saw this too but I don’t know what their back ground is. I feel like everyone, including the docs are overwhelmed and that is also leading to poor outcomes.
Nurses routinely were caring for four critical patients and some weekends I am told they were taking care of five or six.
Not good for the patients. NY does need help.

100% true.

 

[anes121508]

I'm 100% against independent crnas but the fact that they don't want to be icu nurses is not relevant

time of crisis, a once in a century pandemic, where thousands are dying and the system is overrun....and the majority of the patients are icu patients and there aren’t enough icu nurses to handle the job....and there are crnas who have skill sets to care for these patients correctly and these crnas aren’t busy because OR volume is down.....

They stand up and say they are above that. Pathetic. Awful leadership.

People’s moms and dads and brothers and sisters and husbands are dying. Just maybe if the staffing ratio wasn’t 4-6:1 or if it wasn’t a travel ED nurse or a floor nurse who did icu 15 years ago wasn’t stuck trying to do it all...that persons loved one would still be here today.

I hope the leadership of the aana or whatever governing body they have or whoever came up with that refusal to help statement reads this post.

They should walk through the makeshift icus with me and tell me otherwise.

 

[anes121508]

I'm 100% against independent crnas but the fact that they don't want to be icu nurses is not relevant

It’s shows true colors. It’s shows motives.

Maybe their leadership should take a look at a friend of mine....pain fellow and recent cancer survivor, stepped up and volunteered before other in his program were eventually drafted to the proning team. busting his balls day in and day out directing his squad of ortho residents to make sure people don’t crump or get accidentally extubated. He doesn’t feel he is above it. It’s his one year of fellowship and this is what he is doing. Haven’t heard a single complaint from him. Takes pride knowing that proning is important to some patients survival.

His motives are pure.

He cares about people surviving.

That’s a hero.

 

[anes121508]

nope, the shouldn't be independent because their training isn't adequate

the fact that they don't want to an icu nurse doesn't have anything to do with their lack of qualifications for independence. They don't owe anyone service as an icu nurse

You are right.

They don’t have a contract to provide icu nursing services.

They don’t owe anybody anything.

They aren’t obligated to help.

I like to think people go beyond what they are obligated to do. Especially in a time of crisis. Especially if If means possibly saving a life.

Its one thing to not to help because of fear of your safety and personal situation. I respect that.

I have a lack of respect for people who are unwilling to help because they feel they are “too good” for the job being asked of them. And people are dying because of it.

Totally differen

 

[MoMoGesiologist]

Lots of dramatic statements here. The CRNAs I work with stepped up and helped in ICUs risking their own safety. Maybe the people you work with suck, but I feel lucky to work with the CRNAs I’m working with.

 

[anes121508]

Lots of dramatic statements here. The CRNAs I work with stepped up and helped in ICUs risking their own safety. Maybe the people you work with suck, but I feel lucky to work with the CRNAs I’m working with.

“Dramatic” sounds like a backhanded comment but I’ll give benefit of the doubt.

Please re-read my posts...

I’m not referring to individual crnas.

Most I know are great. I’m actually very fortunate to work with the crnas that I do.

Im referring to the leadership. The governing body. The AANA who came out and said they don’t endorse crnas being used as RNs.

I know crnas who are actually embarrassed about that type of leadership.

Just to prove my point, I know a crna who has done everything from airway team, to trach, to being RT, to transporter, to bedside nurse....recently he was fed up after finding a sacral decub in like a 37 year old patient who had been left on stretcher for who knows how many days in a makeshift icu corner spot...he went around for nearly the entire day with a crna friend of his turning patients and checking and doing the whole butt band aide thing. Kudos to him. That’s a tough job.

 

[46Long]

Lots of dramatic statements here. The CRNAs I work with stepped up and helped in ICUs risking their own safety. Maybe the people you work with suck, but I feel lucky to work with the CRNAs I’m working with.

THE AANA made a statement against going to the ICU.

 

[chocomorsel]

THE AANA made a statement against going to the ICU.

I didn’t know this to be a fact. If so, then yes. It’s quite sad. The AANA need not make RNA’s statement in a time of crisis.
The scare is real. I have experienced it. But I also worked with two CRNAs who came up to help. They were assisting the nurses and didn’t have their own patients but they did it all. Initially it was vent weaning, then it evolved to other RN things like administering drugs, turning etc. They stepped up. I do feel like if better organized they could have been used a little differently as in have their own patients, however they turned out to be helpful to the docs and to the nurses.
But for sure the mortality being so high does have something to do with overstretched staff as well. Not just the illness.

 

[anes121508]

Lots of dramatic statements here. The CRNAs I work with stepped up and helped in ICUs risking their own safety. Maybe the people you work with suck, but I feel lucky to work with the CRNAs I’m working with.

I’m not referring to individual crnas.

Most I know are great. I’m actually very fortunate to work with the crnas that I do.

Im referring to the leadership. The governing body

Lots of dramatic statements here. The CRNAs I work with stepped up and helped in ICUs risking their own safety. Maybe the people you work with suck, but I feel lucky to work with the CRNAs I’m working with.

AANA wants to step up and practice independently to provide anesthesia for patients because:

there is a shortage of physicians and they care so deeply that patients have access to care

However, when there was fear that icu nurses would be at a critical shortage the AANA was quick to publicly state they are against going to ICU as RNs.

Now please tell me their motivation is patient care and access to good care.

 

[anes121508]

I didn’t know this to be a fact. If so, then yes. It’s quite sad. The AANA need not make RNA’s statement in a time of crisis.
The scare is real. I have experienced it. But I also worked with two CRNAs who came up to help. They were assisting the nurses and didn’t have their own patients but they did it all. Initially it was vent weaning, then it evolved to other RN things like administering drugs, turning etc. They stepped up. I do feel like if better organized they could have been used a little differently as in have their own patients, however they turned out to be helpful to the docs and to the nurses.
But for sure the mortality being so high does have something to do with overstretched staff as well. Not just the illness.

Yes precisely. Perhaps Their leadership was an obstruction to the organization and mobilization of qualified people.

Now you have crnas running around the unit doing everything they can because they see poor care being given and there is no organization. Somehow there is a travel ED nurse who is actually the nurse of record for the patient asking me how to pull a groin line and asking what a twitch monitor is and covering 4 patients.

If their leadership made the right moves, I wonder if the crnas would be bedside and locums ed and floor nurses wouldn’t be trying to do the job and failing.

No lie, one of the nurses yesterday left her ED nursing job 2 years ago for a medical device company. She felt obligated to help and so she signed up with the hospital. Was then told to report to the ICU cuz of shortages and is covering 4 vented patients. Meanwhile I’m told some CRNAS at this hospital are at home furloughed.

 

[chocomorsel]

Yes precisely. Perhaps Their leadership was an obstruction to the organization and mobilization of qualified people.

Now you have crnas running around the unit doing everything they can because they see poor care being given and there is no organization. Somehow there is a travel ED nurse who is actually the nurse of record for the patient asking me how to pull a groin line and asking what a twitch monitor is and covering 4 patients.

If their leadership made the right moves, I wonder if the crnas would be bedside and locums ed and floor nurses wouldn’t be trying to do the job and failing.

No lie, one of the nurses yesterday left her ED nursing job 2 years ago for a medical device company. She felt obligated to help and so she signed up with the hospital. Was then told to report to the ICU cuz of shortages and is covering 4 vented patients. Meanwhile I’m told some CRNAS at this hospital are at home furloughed.

Yeah. It is sad the lack of people stepping up. Guess all you can do is do your part, the best you can. And pray.
Lots of people at home who could help.

 

[MoMoGesiologist]

I’m all for railing against AANA. However, working through this crisis, I have a new found respect for all the people I work with, replacing my previous disdain lol

 

[nimbus]

Doesn’t the AANA tout the ICU experience that CRNAs have as a prerequisite for CRNA school? Seems like they’re missing out on their moment to step up and shine.

 

[deleted480308]

It’s shows true colors. It’s shows motives.

Maybe their leadership should take a look at a friend of mine....pain fellow and recent cancer survivor, stepped up and volunteered before other in his program were eventually drafted to the proning team. busting his balls day in and day out directing his squad of ortho residents to make sure people don’t crump or get accidentally extubated. He doesn’t feel he is above it. It’s his one year of fellowship and this is what he is doing. Haven’t heard a single complaint from him. Takes pride knowing that proning is important to some patients survival.

His motives are pure.

He cares about people surviving.

That’s a hero.

You are dropping emotional speeches like they have anything to do with my statement. They don’t

I’m not referencing who is a nice person or a hero, I’m saying that trying to tie the decision to not act in an icu nurse role to crna independence is illogical. They are not related

 

[46Long]

You are dropping emotional speeches like they have anything to do with my statement. They don’t

I’m not referencing who is a nice person or a hero, I’m saying that trying to tie the decision to not act in an icu nurse role to crna independence is illogical. They are not related

It is not illogical.
They aren't as altruistic as you think. THeir motives for independent practice has NEVER been about "access to care" issues or any other altruistic, self-less reasons. THis reveals it. Go back and read their position statement where they do not endorse the use of CRNAs as RNs even though hospitals are Straight UP DESPERATE for ICU RNs.

I say open up Anesthesiologist Assistant schools in all 50 States, at every academic residency medical center and allow PAs to apply to the programs that would be 18 months in total. first 4 months would be fulltime didactics given by the professors. THis would bring the mid-level education back under the board of medicine and we can control the quality. WHile we are training PAs we could work on legislation to license AAs in all 50 states..

 

[vector2]

It is not illogical.
They aren't as altruistic as you think. THeir motives for independent practice has NEVER been about "access to care" issues or any other altruistic, self-less reasons. THis reveals it. Go back and read their position statement where they do not endorse the use of CRNAs as RNs even though hospitals are Straight UP DESPERATE for ICU RNs.

I say open up Anesthesiologist Assistant schools in all 50 States, at every academic residency medical center and allow PAs to apply to the programs that would be 18 months in total. first 4 months would be fulltime didactics given by the professors. THis would bring the mid-level education back under the board of medicine and we can control the quality. WHile we are training PAs we could work on legislation to license AAs in all 50 states..

Don't bother arguing with him. He's not approaching the issue from a CRNA defense standpoint, he's approaching it from a "I'm a libertarian standing up for the CRNA's selfish right to do whichever labor they wish, society's needs be damned" standpoint

 

[deleted480308]

It is not illogical.
They aren't as altruistic as you think. THeir motives for independent practice has NEVER been about "access to care" issues or any other altruistic, self-less reasons. THis reveals it. Go back and read their position statement where they do not endorse the use of CRNAs as RNs even though hospitals are Straight UP DESPERATE for ICU RNs.

I say open up Anesthesiologist Assistant schools in all 50 States, at every academic residency medical center and allow PAs to apply to the programs that would be 18 months in total. first 4 months would be fulltime didactics given by the professors. THis would bring the mid-level education back under the board of medicine and we can control the quality. WHile we are training PAs we could work on legislation to license AAs in all 50 states..

Altruism doesn’t have anything to do with qualifications. I don’t care if they are altruistic

 

[deleted480308]

Don't bother arguing with him. He's not approaching the issue from a CRNA defense standpoint, he's approaching it from a "I'm a libertarian standing up for the CRNA's selfish right to do whichever labor they wish, society's needs be damned" standpoint

pretty much

no one has a right to demand your labor

 

[MoMoGesiologist]

Don't bother arguing with him. He's not approaching the issue from a CRNA defense standpoint, he's approaching it from a "I'm a libertarian standing up for the CRNA's selfish right to do whichever labor they wish, society's needs be damned" standpoint

While I generally agree with you on most things, I don’t think any one has a right to your labor (though I’m willing to hear your argument and be convinced otherwise). I have a right to donate my time and efforts, but I don’t think the government should be allowed to force me to work, right?

 

[anes121508]

You are dropping emotional speeches like they have anything to do with my statement. They don’t

I’m not referencing who is a nice person or a hero, I’m saying that trying to tie the decision to not act in an icu nurse role to crna independence is illogical. They are not related

If crna independence is not related to access to care, then yes you are right they are not related.

However, no longer can crnas claim they believe in access to care and use that as their reasoning for crna independence. There is an access to care issue right now with icu nursing shortage and they are quick publicly state they will not help to improve that access to care.

I guess they want it both ways.

Not shocking, just proving what we know to be true.

 

[anes121508]

pretty much

no one has a right to demand your labor

Yes I agree. You are right.

 

[vector2]

While I generally agree with you on most things, I don’t think any one has a right to your labor (though I’m willing to hear your argument and be convinced otherwise). I have a right to donate my time and efforts, but I don’t think the government should be allowed to force me to work, right?

I'm not saying anyone has a right to the CRNA's labor beyond whatever is agreed upon in their contract. I'm just explaining sb247's position. Me personally, if I was CEO/CMO, I had a massive ICU RN shortage, and had CRNAs in my institution's employ who were currently sitting around doing nothing, I would do whatever legal maneuvering was required so that they could practice to the "full extent" of their licenses or otherwise simply be flexed off.

 

[anes121508]

While I generally agree with you on most things, I don’t think any one has a right to your labor (though I’m willing to hear your argument and be convinced otherwise). I have a right to donate my time and efforts, but I don’t think the government should be allowed to force me to work, right?

Nope. You are 100% right. Nobody should be forced to do anything.

I’m not arguing that anyone is obligated or should be forced to do anything.

 

[46Long]

While I generally agree with you on most things, I don’t think any one has a right to your labor (though I’m willing to hear your argument and be convinced otherwise). I have a right to donate my time and efforts, but I don’t think the government should be allowed to force me to work, right?

Nobody is forcing ANYONE to do anything.
If CRNAs do not want to alleviate the nursing shortage by doing "what they are trained to do" and work within their license scope(ICU NURSING) it brings their agenda into clearer focus.

 

[chocomorsel]

If the CRNAs really wanted to help, they could do it. They would go against the AANA but what is the AANA gonna do? Revoke their membership? Big deal. Can't touch their license.
But maybe they are afraid of going against the majority? Or maybe just fearful for their health? I don't know. I have seen a couple help and it was nice.

 

[deleted480308]

If crna independence is not related to access to care, then yes you are right they are not related.

However, no longer can crnas claim they believe in access to care and use that as their reasoning for crna independence. There is an access to care issue right now with icu nursing shortage and they are quick publicly state they will not help to improve that access to care.

I guess they want it both ways.

Not shocking, just proving what we know to be true.

Fully agreed they are dishonest, I just don’t think that advertising hypocrisy is why they shouldn’t be independent

 

[IlDestriero]

If the CRNAs really wanted to help, they could do it. They would go against the AANA but what is the AANA gonna do? Revoke their membership? Big deal. Can't touch their license.
But maybe they are afraid of going against the majority? Or maybe just fearful for their health? I don't know. I have seen a couple help and it was nice.

They changed their position statement after a week or so to something more reasonable. It actually was probably helpful as it noted you should have scope of practice discussions, payment arrangements, malpractice coverage, etc. Stuff that the physicians haven’t worked out either when covering ICU patients, etc. It’s one thing to be the intubation or proning team, or to be Jr RT watching the OR vents, it’s another to be managing ICU patients without a fellowship. In my opinion. Nothing would get me to manage PICU patients, even though I’ve been temporarily managing them in the OR for about 20 years.

 

[Mofeen]

The Filipino nurses are the best: respectful and nice and good and efficient at their job

1 million percent yes!

 

[Man o War]

My favorite is the CRNA online keyboard warriors who rag on the training/medical educations of doctors who are IMGs or Caribbean grads.
That’s kind of like sitting on your couch at home criticizing the NBA player who sits the bench most of the game.
These people get more and more insane each year in my humble opinion.

 

[Zekchar]

pretty much

no one has a right to demand your labor

I too will agree. There's many anesthesiologists sitting at home. They had the option to travel to NYC and staff COVID units. Some did. Many didn't. That is their prerogative and a personal decision.

 

[Southpaw]

pretty much

no one has a right to demand your labor

and in the case of providing service in the time of a viral pandemic, fortunately one can be right and a total dbag at the same time.

 

[anes121508]

Fully agreed they are dishonest, I just don’t think that advertising hypocrisy is why they shouldn’t be independent

You make a very good point here and I agree with you

 

[Southpaw]

No one has a right to demand labor. But that is an absolutely stupid argument to attempt to assert in times of a viral pandemic. Is says so much about you, and nothing about those around you. Is that how you want to be viewed? Maybe you don’t care. You should.

In my mind it’s very simple. Patients are sick and need the skills of CRNAs and Anesthesiologists. It’s been a time to come together, push differences aside, and simply do what’s right for patients. It’s not a terribly complex issue. My guess if I were to read everyone’s med school or nursing school essays they’d allude to things like ‘helping people’.

In my department roughly 5% of CRNAs volunteered to help in the ICU. 100%
of anesthesiologists said they’d do whatever is asked of them by the hospital.

The AANA said CRNAs should ‘lead their departments working from home’.

Believe me. I’ve been side by side with rank and file janitors, RTs, and RNs helping patients with covid19. Ive not seen a CRNA.

I know the score and I won’t forget. Is it right to DEMAND service? No. But to hell with your philosophical argument. When it hits the fan and patients need care, you provide it. Plain and simple. It’s not complex.

 

[anes121508]

If the CRNAs really wanted to help, they could do it. They would go against the AANA but what is the AANA gonna do? Revoke their membership? Big deal. Can't touch their license.
But maybe they are afraid of going against the majority? Or maybe just fearful for their health? I don't know. I have seen a couple help and it was nice.

My friends who are crnas say the statement by their governing body is dissapointing and puts them in a position that makes them look bad.

Judging by the crnas I know and the crnas I’ve seen bust their butts to lend a helping hand in any way shape or form, I don’t think the majority of the crnas out there support the aana statement.

Many crnas I know have commented that they wish there was a more organized manner and opportunity to help. I’m seeing crnas floating around icus painfully watching floor and ed nurses flounder. They are trying to be polite and not step on toes but they are jumping in to help.

To be honest I think I’ve read many people on this site disagree with the Asa leadership. Just interesting how leadership can misrepresent the boots on the ground.

 

[anes121508]

They changed their position statement after a week or so to something more reasonable. It actually was probably helpful as it noted you should have scope of practice discussions, payment arrangements, malpractice coverage, etc. Stuff that the physicians haven’t worked out either when covering ICU patients, etc. It’s one thing to be the intubation or proning team, or to be Jr RT watching the OR vents, it’s another to be managing ICU patients without a fellowship. In my opinion. Nothing would get me to manage PICU patients, even though I’ve been temporarily managing them in the OR for about 20 years.

In a perfect world yes, I agree. Sort out the agreement and make sure people are covered and paid fairly for their work. However, should we wait for people to negotiate it out and come to an agreement in times like these? I don’t know that there was time for this. I wonder if this is what went on behind the scenes with testing and the ppe and the agreements to make vents. The business guys negotiate deals and take time to go back and forth and consult their lawyers and want to make sure they are covered and don’t take a loss. All the while the tidal wave hits and by the time they make a deal and decide to go forward it’s too late. Is that possible?

Agree with then icu management peice. An fantastic brilliant attending who has not done an icu fellowship is not going to provide the same care as a fantastic brilliant icu trained attending. However, crnas a bit different in that many of them are only several years out from actually caring for icu patients as nurses. A cardiac fellowship trained person who has never done an icu fellowship now managing icu patients is not the same as a crna who has actually been an icu nurse in the past and is now hopping back on the bike. Not a fair comparison. Not sure if that’s what you meant though.

 

[anes121508]

1 million percent yes!

Man, off track but that gives me such a flashback...when I was in 7th grade I had the biggest crush on this Filipino girl. Mustered up the courage to ask her to this 8th grade dance. She was cool and pretty. I was a bit dorky and she said no, but it was the nicest anyone ever shot me down before.

 

[deleted480308]

No one has a right to demand labor. But that is an absolutely stupid argument to attempt to assert in times of a viral pandemic. Is says so much about you, and nothing about those around you. Is that how you want to be viewed? Maybe you don’t care. You should.

In my mind it’s very simple. Patients are sick and need the skills of CRNAs and Anesthesiologists. It’s been a time to come together, push differences aside, and simply do what’s right for patients. It’s not a terribly complex issue. My guess if I were to read everyone’s med school or nursing school essays they’d allude to things like ‘helping people’.

In my department roughly 5% of CRNAs volunteered to help in the ICU. 100%
of anesthesiologists said they’d do whatever is asked of them by the hospital.

The AANA said CRNAs should ‘lead their departments working from home’.

Believe me. I’ve been side by side with rank and file janitors, RTs, and RNs helping patients with covid19. Ive not seen a CRNA.

I know the score and I won’t forget. Is it right to DEMAND service? No. But to hell with your philosophical argument. When it hits the fan and patients need care, you provide it. Plain and simple. It’s not complex.

Nope. You are saying no one has a right to demand, and then you drop an emotional demand

You are correct that it isn’t complex though, if you want staff to show up you offer the combination of pay/ppe/workload that it takes to make them want to come in

 

[anes121508]

I too will agree. There's many anesthesiologists sitting at home. They had the option to travel to NYC and staff COVID units. Some did. Many didn't. That is their prerogative and a personal decision.

Absolutely. And that’s ok.

 

[Man o War]

No one has a right to demand labor. But that is an absolutely stupid argument to attempt to assert in times of a viral pandemic. Is says so much about you, and nothing about those around you. Is that how you want to be viewed? Maybe you don’t care. You should.

In my mind it’s very simple. Patients are sick and need the skills of CRNAs and Anesthesiologists. It’s been a time to come together, push differences aside, and simply do what’s right for patients. It’s not a terribly complex issue. My guess if I were to read everyone’s med school or nursing school essays they’d allude to things like ‘helping people’.

In my department roughly 5% of CRNAs volunteered to help in the ICU. 100%
of anesthesiologists said they’d do whatever is asked of them by the hospital.

The AANA said CRNAs should ‘lead their departments working from home’.

Believe me. I’ve been side by side with rank and file janitors, RTs, and RNs helping patients with covid19. Ive not seen a CRNA.

I know the score and I won’t forget. Is it right to DEMAND service? No. But to hell with your philosophical argument. When it hits the fan and patients need care, you provide it. Plain and simple. It’s not complex.

CRNAs should lead “their” departments. Oh lord these are some funny delusions of grandeur. That is downright hilarious

 

[Southpaw]

Nope. You are saying no one has a right to demand, and then you drop an emotional demand

You are correct that it isn’t complex though, if you want staff to show up you offer the combination of pay/ppe/workload that it takes to make them want to come in

I guess I missed the post where someone said ‘So and So DEMANDED the crna be an icu nurse and they refused....how awful!’.

Quite the contrary - most hospitals have called out for volunteers. The CRNAs either pitched in or they didn’t. But hospitals and their physicians moved on with their duty.

No offense I just don’t see the need for the extremely predictable libertarian viewpoint insert.