Every patient deserves an RN.. Oh the hypocrisy..

[Southpaw]

CRNAs should lead “their” departments. Oh lord these are some funny delusions of grandeur. That is downright hilarious

AANA words not mine

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[anes121508]

No one has a right to demand labor. But that is an absolutely stupid argument to attempt to assert in times of a viral pandemic. Is says so much about you, and nothing about those around you. Is that how you want to be viewed? Maybe you don’t care. You should.

In my mind it’s very simple. Patients are sick and need the skills of CRNAs and Anesthesiologists. It’s been a time to come together, push differences aside, and simply do what’s right for patients. It’s not a terribly complex issue. My guess if I were to read everyone’s med school or nursing school essays they’d allude to things like ‘helping people’.

In my department roughly 5% of CRNAs volunteered to help in the ICU. 100%
of anesthesiologists said they’d do whatever is asked of them by the hospital.

The AANA said CRNAs should ‘lead their departments working from home’.

Believe me. I’ve been side by side with rank and file janitors, RTs, and RNs helping patients with covid19. Ive not seen a CRNA.

I know the score and I won’t forget. Is it right to DEMAND service? No. But to hell with your philosophical argument. When it hits the fan and patients need care, you provide it. Plain and simple. It’s not complex.

I’ve followed your posts over the years. You have given me career perspective/advice and clinical teaching in the past. I have to say you are usually spot on as pretty politically correct and seem like you are “in the know” on some issues.

Glad to see you post this.

Well said.

That is exactly my feeling. I don’t want to be the mean guy judging who chooses not to help, but people remember things.

Some people are not people you wanna be in a Fox hole with.

My college coach always said, “I don’t recruit guys for their athleticism alone, I recruit guys based on their character and moxy. I recruit guys you wanna be in a foxhole with”. His winning percentage was something insane like over 80%.

 

[deleted480308]

I guess I missed the post where someone said ‘So and So DEMANDED the crna be an icu nurse and they refused....how awful!’.

Quite the contrary - most hospitals have called out for volunteers. The CRNAs either pitched in or they didn’t. But hospitals and their physicians moved on with their duty.

No offense I just don’t see the need for the extremely predictable libertarian viewpoint insert.

Someone above was linking the crna Independance argument to them not wanting to be icu nurses...that’s how it started

 

[anes121508]

Nope. You are saying no one has a right to demand, and then you drop an emotional demand

You are correct that it isn’t complex though, if you want staff to show up you offer the combination of pay/ppe/workload that it takes to make them want to come in

You do highlight the other side of the coin here. How many hospital number crunchers sat back and took advantage of residents they could draft or good hearted physicians they could get volunteer work from before they started offering to pay for help?

Then, when they decided to pay for the help they needed, how many took in the ed and floor nurses that offered to come help because it was cheaper? All I can say is I see tons of unqualified ed and floor nurses in the icu and I bet the cost has something to do with it.

 

[anes121508]

Someone above was linking the crna Independance argument to them not wanting to be icu nurses...that’s how it started

Didn’t we address that? I clarified early on that the Aana uses access of care as a reason for independent practice. There was and is an access to care issue right this very moment yet they don’t want to help because it doesn’t suit their agenda. Of course I agree that the arguement for crna independent practice should not revolve around access to care. Because what good is acess to care if It’s poor and leads to deaths?

 

[anes121508]

Nope. You are saying no one has a right to demand, and then you drop an emotional demand

You are correct that it isn’t complex though, if you want staff to show up you offer the combination of pay/ppe/workload that it takes to make them want to come in

You should tell that to the family of the 47 year old guy who died because the bag of Epi running at 4 ran out and the Levo running at 10 had an upstream occlusion and stopped infusing and the Vaso was hung but never confirmed. He coded quite sometime before the ed nurse with 6 vented patients got back to his room to notice the pumps were alarming.

Or maybe you tell that to the lady got extubated but probably ends up with ptsd cuz she had roc running and no sedation. Review of the monitor stored vitals shows she was systollics of 180-200 and hr 140s for as far as I could scroll back.

 

[dannyboy1]

No one has a right to demand labor. But that is an absolutely stupid argument to attempt to assert in times of a viral pandemic. Is says so much about you, and nothing about those around you. Is that how you want to be viewed? Maybe you don’t care. You should.

In my mind it’s very simple. Patients are sick and need the skills of CRNAs and Anesthesiologists. It’s been a time to come together, push differences aside, and simply do what’s right for patients. It’s not a terribly complex issue. My guess if I were to read everyone’s med school or nursing school essays they’d allude to things like ‘helping people’.

In my department roughly 5% of CRNAs volunteered to help in the ICU. 100%
of anesthesiologists said they’d do whatever is asked of them by the hospital.

The AANA said CRNAs should ‘lead their departments working from home’.

Believe me. I’ve been side by side with rank and file janitors, RTs, and RNs helping patients with covid19. Ive not seen a CRNA.

Need more info here. Are the CRNA’s salaried employees of the hospital? Salaried by the group? Were they laid off by the group and then the hospital asked them to volunteer? If so was it with or without pay? Are you guys a PP or salaried? Did 100% of the docs agree to “volunteer” for the hospital because it is profitable contract that you want to keep ?
We have quite a few CRNA’s and docs that are sitting this out. Some are older, more financially secure, and want no part of this. Some don’t want to do ICU care. Some are pregnant. Whatever. That is their choice and they are on leave without pay. It’s still a free country last I checked. This is a JOB. Your only reward is a paycheck. Your “selfless heroics “ will be forgotten in the blink of an eye by the hospital the moment this is over.....

 

[dannyboy1]

Then, when they decided to pay for the help they needed, how many took in the ed and floor nurses that offered to come help because it was cheaper? All I can say is I see tons of unqualified ed and floor nurses in the icu and I bet the cost has something to do with it.

Yup. That’s exactly what it is. It’s because there is little to no liability for COVID care 1) because of state mandates and 2) because the family is not allowed in to see what is going on.
for all those who scream about tort reform get a good look at what happens without the threat of lawsuits. there is zero incentive for the hospital to hire competent staff....

 

[deleted480308]

You should tell that to the family of the 47 year old guy who died because the bag of Epi running at 4 ran out and the Levo running at 10 had an upstream occlusion and stopped infusing and the Vaso was hung but never confirmed. He coded quite sometime before the ed nurse with 6 vented patients got back to his room to notice the pumps were alarming.

Or maybe you tell that to the lady got extubated but probably ends up with ptsd cuz she had roc running and no sedation. Review of the monitor stored vitals shows she was systollics of 180-200 and hr 140s for as far as I could scroll back.

Emotional stories don’t change the principles

you want more staff? Pay and treat them appropriately. No one has a right to someone else’s labor

 

[Southpaw]

Need more info here. Are the CRNA’s salaried employees of the hospital? Salaried by the group? Were they laid off by the group and then the hospital asked them to volunteer? If so was it with or without pay? Are you guys a PP or salaried? Did 100% of the docs agree to “volunteer” for the hospital because it is profitable contract that you want to keep ?
We have quite a few CRNA’s and docs that are sitting this out. Some are older, more financially secure, and want no part of this. Some don’t want to do ICU care. Some are pregnant. Whatever. That is their choice and they are on leave without pay. It’s still a free country last I checked. This is a JOB. Your only reward is a paycheck. Your “selfless heroics “ will be forgotten in the blink of an eye by the hospital the moment this is over.....

Yes but I remember what I do or don’t do. I have myself to answer to. My reward isn’t just the paycheck. I’m not an administrator.

The CRNAs are employed by the hospital. Hospital asked for volunteers.

My group is PP. Hospital asked for volunteers to help with various services. We volunteered before financial arrangements for those services were eventually made.

I totally get that no one works for free. That’s not the point. Again, in my opinion there has been a clear difference in how anesthesiologists have reacted in this pandemic. I’ve been impressed. The AANA has been, ummm, less than impressive, as usual.

 

[Southpaw]

Emotional stories don’t change the principles

you want more staff? Pay and treat them appropriately. No one has a right to someone else’s labor

Your post lacks relevance. @anes121508 is posting examples of how good nursing care would make a difference. You are posting libertarian diatribes that have nothing to do with it. Do you think @anes121508 has a say in nurse staffing for the ICU?

 

[Zekchar]

Your “selfless heroics “ will be forgotten in the blink of an eye by the hospital the moment this is over.....

This is my biggest takeaway from this experience. "Stable" employment is a fair weather friend. When times are good, you get normal pay, praise, hours, and "normal" experiences. The moment things get a bit tight, it's everyone for themselves. You will have your hours cut, your position furloughed, and your retirement plan contributions will be halted. Don't like it? Go pound sand.

I've read it before on this board and completely agree. Get your FU money and strive for financial independence ASAP. Do not do anything more than what is expected of you contractually or that doesn't help move your career forward in some way.

Call me a jackass, but clapping to support me and bringing me bagels for being a front-line worker is for suckers. I don't need trophies, badges of valor, or signs that call me a hero. I want my money, my hours, my retirement contributions, and for admins to step aside and let me do my job to the best of my ability. The hospital's finances is it's problem. I have 6 months of emergency funds and so should the system. Yes this experience has jaded me.

 

[deleted480308]

Your post lacks relevance. @anes121508 is posting examples of how good nursing care would make a difference. You are posting libertarian diatribes that have nothing to do with it. Do you think @anes121508 has a say in nurse staffing for the ICU?

“You” was the generic pronoun for society in my statement. Some were making a pitch for volunteers. I was saying if that hospital is short handed, they need to pay

 

[Arch Guillotti]

When times are good, you get normal pay, praise, hours, and "normal" experiences. The moment things get a bit tight, it's everyone for themselves. You will have your hours cut, your position furloughed, and your retirement plan contributions will be halted. Don't like it? Go pound sand.

If you are an employee.

 

[chocomorsel]

My friends who are crnas say the statement by their governing body is dissapointing and puts them in a position that makes them look bad.

Judging by the crnas I know and the crnas I’ve seen bust their butts to lend a helping hand in any way shape or form, I don’t think the majority of the crnas out there support the aana statement.

Many crnas I know have commented that they wish there was a more organized manner and opportunity to help. I’m seeing crnas floating around icus painfully watching floor and ed nurses flounder. They are trying to be polite and not step on toes but they are jumping in to help.

To be honest I think I’ve read many people on this site disagree with the Asa leadership. Just interesting how leadership can misrepresent the boots on the ground.

I also feel like the CRNAs would probably do much better than ED nurses and especially floor nurses.
They are sometimes sitting around while the RN is overwhelmed.
Better organization to take on direct bedside nursing roles in the ICU would probably better serve the patients and the regular staff.

 

[chocomorsel]

“You” was the generic pronoun for society in my statement. Some were making a pitch for volunteers. I was saying if that hospital is short handed, they need to pay

It’s not just about money. People are scared and want nothing to do with this no matter how much money you throw at them.
Case and point, when I decided to go to NY to help, I was begged by family and friends not to go. Friends saying “I want to go but I have kids.” Etc. People on this board have told me that I am brave and all that jazz from the comfort of their own homes. They are scared for their health, don’t need the money have their various reasons to be afraid and that is completely understandable.

There were plenty of nurses from out of town up there getting a premium but they still were not enough. They could use more.

This is not a problem that is easily fixed by throwing money at it even though it’s the American way. So stop saying that. There are hospitals paying good money that still are short staffed.

 

[vector2]

Just a friendly reminder for everyone who keeps pointlessly trying to reason with sb247:

He is a person who literally said he would give up his own sick child for adoption to a wealthier family before seeking taxpayer-funded healthcare.



One can have reasonable discussions with run of the mill libertarians-the insane quasi-anarchist ones merely exist to annoy people on the internet by shtting up threads with nonsense they wouldn’t dare utter out loud in real life

 

[chocomorsel]

Just a friendly reminder for everyone who keeps pointlessly trying to reason with sb247:

He is a person who literally said he would give up his own sick child for adoption to a wealthier family before seeking taxpayer-funded healthcare.



One can have reasonable discussions with run of the mill libertarians-the insane quasi-anarchist ones merely exist to annoy people on the internet by shtting up threads with nonsense they wouldn’t dare utter out loud in real life

Absolutely right. I wonder how much money it would take for him to offer his services, since you know. It’s all about the hospitals needing to pay a premium.

 

[V5RED]

My reaction: "This looks fake, like the kind of thing someone pissed at the nursing lobby would knock up on photoshop to make them look ridiculous"

After 2 seconds on Google: "Well, it is real. I guess they only wanted to get that ball rolling a bit"

Just in case others thought it looked too silly to be real, here is a link to their website for this campaign.

Every Patient Deserves a Registered Nurse!

Stop Albany’s Attack on Our Scope of PracticeA dangerous proposal in the NY State budget could have far-reaching implications that will directly affect patient care and RN scope of practice!

www.nysna.org

 

[deleted480308]

Just a friendly reminder for everyone who keeps pointlessly trying to reason with sb247:

He is a person who literally said he would give up his own sick child for adoption to a wealthier family before seeking taxpayer-funded healthcare.



One can have reasonable discussions with run of the mill libertarians-the insane quasi-anarchist ones merely exist to annoy people on the internet by shtting up threads with nonsense they wouldn’t dare utter out loud in real life

In real life (particularly the more “progressive” folks) try to end careers of people who disagree with them, one must be a little more selective of their conversations there.

Absolutely right. I wonder how much money it would take for him to offer his services, since you know. It’s all about the hospitals needing to pay a premium.

Residents get told they don’t get to moonlight and we’ll be quarantined without pay if we travel on our vacation time. Otherwise there is a number that would get me there. There are laid off and reduced hour rns/pas/nps/docs all over the country right now

 

[vector2]

In real life (particularly the more “progressive” folks) try to end careers of people who disagree with them, one must be a little more selective of their conversations there.

Persecution complex, much? Lighten up, snowflake, cause it isn't your employer being "progressive" that's gonna predispose them to weird looks if you ever shared your 'give away my sick kid cause taxation is theft' hot take. They're not gonna wonder if you're too libertarian- they're going to wonder if you're mentally ill.

 

[deleted480308]

Persecution complex, much? Lighten up, snowflake, cause it isn't your employer being "progressive" that's gonna predispose them to weird looks if you ever shared your 'give away my sick kid cause taxation is theft' hot take. They're not gonna wonder if you're too libertarian- they're going to wonder if you're mentally ill.

You want to keep going back to that issue we can rabbit trail the whole thread, your call

 

[Southpaw]

Residents get told they don’t get to moonlight and we’ll be quarantined without pay if we travel on our vacation time. Otherwise there is a number that would get me there. There are laid off and reduced hour rns/pas/nps/docs all over the country right now

I’m sorry but everyone doesn’t get to do whatever they want, whenever they want. Life is full of rules. My 4yo gets that. Why is it so difficult for you?

That’s not to say there isn’t a nuanced point buried in your hardline lib views. There is. But you lose it with your approach.

 

[deleted480308]

I’m sorry but everyone doesn’t get to do whatever they want, whenever they want. Life is full of rules. My 4yo gets that. Why is it so difficult for you?

That’s not to say there isn’t a nuanced point buried in your hardline lib views. There is. But you lose it with your approach.

I’m not arguing to go, I understand and follow my rules. I was asked if a number existed that would make me want to, yes there is.

it seems like your ideological disagreement with me has you reacting to things I’m not saying

 

[chocomorsel]

In real life (particularly the more “progressive” folks) try to end careers of people who disagree with them, one must be a little more selective of their conversations there.

Residents get told they don’t get to moonlight and we’ll be quarantined without pay if we travel on our vacation time. Otherwise there is a number that would get me there. There are laid off and reduced hour rns/pas/nps/docs all over the country right now

The money is there. If one looks. In some hospitals. So why aren’t all these laid up people there? Why is NY still struggling?
From someone who’s been there, it’s not just about the money. You are naive.

 

[deleted480308]

The money is there. If one looks. In some hospitals. So why aren’t all these laid up people there? Why is NY still struggling?
From someone who’s been there, it’s not just about the money. You are naive.

You are welcome to continue to disagree as this is a matter of opinion, but a lot of folks just started getting their hours cut and the differentials might not yet be to the point where they all feel it’s worth the hassle.

No amount of staff differential can make a hospital bigger though which is a different infrastructure conversation altogether, likely for another thread at a later date

 

[Southpaw]

I’m not arguing to go, I understand and follow my rules. I was asked if a number existed that would make me want to, yes there is.

it seems like your ideological disagreement with me has you reacting to things I’m not saying

since you’ve called me on it, for the record I have no problem with libertarian ideology. If you were motivated enough you’d see in my post history I’ve supported Gary Johnson for President in the past. In the more distant past I debated pro-lib in the SP forum. Boy was that a waste of time....

Being an anesthesiologist, and maybe just a human, over the past few decades has taught me that libertarianism is pretty on paper but completely and wholly unrealistic, and heartless, in life. Regardless, whatever floats your boat right?

 

[chocomorsel]

You are welcome to continue to disagree as this is a matter of opinion, but a lot of folks just started getting their hours cut and the differentials might not yet be to the point where they all feel it’s worth the hassle.

No amount of staff differential can make a hospital bigger though which is a different infrastructure conversation altogether, likely for another thread at a later date

I am not talking of the ones who just “started” getting their hours cut. Plenty of people have been sitting around for weeks even months. When this thing was hot and heavy. Why didn’t they all flock up there to the hospitals that were paying?

 

[deleted480308]

I am not talking of the ones who just “started” getting their hours cut. Plenty of people have been sitting around for weeks even months. When this thing was hot and heavy. Why didn’t they all flock up there to the hospitals that were paying?

Since you’re asking, most docs and even nurses should have a few weeks of money saved up, many got some sort of furlough pay, and many might be thinking if it kicks off in their current location there will be plenty of money here soon. There is also the fact that some hospitals have been saying that traveling out of their network to work is not allowed in the contract they have and they would be quarantined on return.

for enough money, people will go to afghanistan on contract. They will go to ny too

 

[chocomorsel]

Since you’re asking, most docs and even nurses should have a few weeks of money saved up, many got some sort of furlough pay, and many might be thinking if it kicks off in their current location there will be plenty of money here soon. There is also the fact that some hospitals have been saying that traveling out of their network to work is not allowed in the contract they have and they would be quarantined on return.

for enough money, people will go to afghanistan on contract. They will go to ny too

Exactly. Plenty of people aren’t going up there for a multitude of reasons. You just proved my point.
No matter how much money is being paid, plenty of people don’t need it or don’t want it or can’t take it.
So your solution of throwing a bunch of money at the problem, where there aren’t enough takers for that money is not really a solution then is it?
So stop.

 

[deleted480308]

Exactly. Plenty of people aren’t going up there for a multitude of reasons. You just proved my point.
No matter how much money is being paid, plenty of people don’t need it or don’t want it or can’t take it.
So your solution of throwing a bunch of money at the problem, where there aren’t enough takers for that money is not really a solution then is it?
So stop.

No. There is a price point that will have enough staff willing to make the trip, we just aren’t there yet or are not willing to pay that number.

it’s ok for us to just disagree

 

[chocomorsel]

No. There is a price point that will have enough staff willing to make the trip, we just aren’t there yet or are not willing to pay that number.

it’s ok for us to just disagree

So just out of curiosity, what is that price point? You seem to have a number in mind. Please let us know.

 

[pjl]

So just out of curiosity, what is that price point? You seem to have a number in mind. Please let us know.

My price would have to cover 14 days of mandatory isolation when I return, so an additional 2+ weeks without pay. Add in missed family time and the discomfort of travel to a strange city with a legendary history of poorly staffed hospitals...
I don’t think any of those places would want to afford me.

our hospital is paying all the nurses and staff an extra 15/hr for caring for covid people, and some bonus for just being there. They offered 130/hr for CRNAs to be ICU nurses.
Physicians have been asked to volunteer. Later they offered to pay whatever the MGMA hourly rate is for your specialty.

There are still more physician volunteers than CRNA/nurses, because we are dumb.

 

[deleted480308]

So just out of curiosity, what is that price point? You seem to have a number in mind. Please let us know.

@pjl nailed it

 

[chocomorsel]

My price would have to cover 14 days of mandatory isolation when I return, so an additional 2+ weeks without pay. Add in missed family time and the discomfort of travel to a strange city with a legendary history of poorly staffed hospitals...
I don’t think any of those places would want to afford me.

our hospital is paying all the nurses and staff an extra 15/hr for caring for covid people, and some bonus for just being there. They offered 130/hr for CRNAs to be ICU nurses.
Physicians have been asked to volunteer. Later they offered to pay whatever the MGMA hourly rate is for your specialty.

There are still more physician volunteers than CRNA/nurses, because we are dumb.

I agree. We are dumb. We need to learn something from the nurses and their unions.
I have heard there are people negotiating a nice sum because of the quarantining after it.
Certainly no one should be “volunteering” for free. That’s bull.
However there are people negotiating over $500 an hour out there from what I am hearing.
I just want to know from the young resident what his fee is. To make it worth while.
Quite frankly, what’s to prevent one from going back to work immediately, after coming back there as long as you keep your N95 on at all times?
And it’s just not the city that is hurting. The suburbs and other cities in NY state are hurting as well. So their ratios may be better. I was not in the city than God and had about 10 patients daily.

 

[nimbus]

They were offering $3800 weekly for EMT’s and $7k weekly for RT’s as well.

All well deserved.

 

[chocomorsel]

@nimbus; What were they offering for MD/DOs? Or are our services free? HAHAHA

 

[deleted480308]

I agree. We are dumb. We need to learn something from the nurses and their unions.
I have heard there are people negotiating a nice sum because of the quarantining after it.
Certainly no one should be “volunteering” for free. That’s bull.
However there are people negotiating over $500 an hour out there from what I am hearing.
I just want to know from the young resident what his fee is. To make it worth while.
Quite frankly, what’s to prevent one from going back to work immediately, after coming back there as long as you keep your N95 on at all times?
And it’s just not the city that is hurting. The suburbs and other cities in NY state are hurting as well. So their ratios may be better. I was not in the city than God and had about 10 patients daily.

That poster above looked good to me if I was allowed

 

[nimbus]

@nimbus; What were they offering for MD/DOs? Or are our services free? HAHAHA

No idea. I know one trauma surgeon who volunteered. I assume he didn’t get paid.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

AANA words not mine

I’ll be honest, the whole CRNA/AANA gaining more power throughout this whole thing has really pushed me (second year about to take boards) away from anesthesia. You guys have convinced me. I don’t want to deal with the CRNA bs or the NP bs. I think I’m gonna pursue radiology.

 

[Zekchar]

I’ll be honest, the whole CRNA/AANA gaining more power throughout this whole thing has really pushed me (second year about to take boards) away from anesthesia. You guys have convinced me. I don’t want to deal with the CRNA bs or the NP bs. I think I’m gonna pursue radiology.

It is a legit concern. For the first time in my 5 year academic career I am concerned. My takeaway is that you have to do that which others cannot do moving forward. You have to be the one that brings the business and get a cut of it to have security. For anesthesia, pain management is the new (only?) recourse. For other fields, you should look into situation where you are not just the employee but the owner. Psych - be ready to start your own practice. Urology - buy into / start own surgicenter and split the cost of lithotrypsy and c-arm amongst partners. Radiology - think IR to do procedures others cannot perform to save the day. Those who thought their jobs, lifestyles, and positions were secure have had a rude awakening in all of this. If an employee, pursue your FU money like mad since that is your only leverage.

 

[46Long]

It is a legit concern. For the first time in my 5 year academic career I am concerned.

There have been people (on here specifically) and other places who have been sounding the alarm for at least 8-10 years. The interesting thing is we CAN reverse course. It's going to take thinking outside the box, and the eliminating the concrete thinking which is so prevalent amongsts the people in the ASA and who support the ASA.

 

[IMGASMD]

I’ll be honest, the whole CRNA/AANA gaining more power throughout this whole thing has really pushed me (second year about to take boards) away from anesthesia. You guys have convinced me. I don’t want to deal with the CRNA bs or the NP bs. I think I’m gonna pursue radiology.

Radiology is not immune either. I have staffed IR biopsies done by PAs.....

Surgeries, perhaps.

Also agree with @46Long. Outside of box should also include patient education. However at the same time, you have board members who will advocate for ACT model. So it’s not an easy task.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Radiology is not immune either. I have staffed IR biopsies done by PAs.....

Surgeries, perhaps.

Also agree with @46Long. Outside of box should also include patient education. However at the same time, you have board members who will advocate for ACT model. So it’s not an easy task.

My understanding is that no one would ever trust a NP or PA to do their diagnostic radiology. Seems like that’s a pretty safe field to me.

A mix of DR and IR looks really appealing to me. I can’t imagine PAs are doing IR stuff past the very basic.

 

[deleted697535]

Guys are on here complaining about crna's shirking their responsibility to help, and even other MD colleagues. And saying that those in abstentia will get their just desserts when this thing is all over.

Well i do respect your opinion on this and other things but that is just naieve. We have loads of those dog fvckers around my neck of the woods, and those toads just seem to keep on, keeping on.

When it all started we were assured that in ED, emerg would tube their covids, & the medical ICU would tube theirs too. But they're not. Thats no different to not showing up. Ive done 4 in the last week for these w@nkers. Its no different. 'Oh he's difficult airway - bmi 31 and mp3' wtf

Its sh1te, but its the way the world is. Its the way the world always has been. Just because im/we are the fools that cant say no in a smart enough way to get out of harms way

Is it any different to having to do every grotty vascular case or ****ty hip just because the last dickhead colleague of mine thought he heard a murmur, and i know echo! wtf? Its no different

 

[pjl]

My understanding is that no one would ever trust a NP or PA to do their diagnostic radiology. Seems like that’s a pretty safe field to me.

A mix of DR and IR looks really appealing to me. I can’t imagine PAs are doing IR stuff past the very basic.

People are close to trusting computers...

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

People are close to trusting computers...

Who? I haven’t done a formal study, but I have informally talked to people about it and I have yet to talk to someone who would be okay with AI reading their images without collaborating with a radiologist if at all.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

People are close to trusting computers...

My understanding is that this is untrue. Do you have any supporting data?

 

[Hork Bajir]

Want job security in any field of medicine? Sub-specialize into a niche where you are asked to make judgement calls that carry risk and consequences. In anesthesia, that can look a number if different ways- pedi hearts, cardiac/ICU managing advanced MCS modalities, doing structural heart TEEs in a setting where your input is factored into mission critical decisions, etc. The days of doing a residency and getting paid handsomely to do easy cases with good job security are long gone. This is true regardless of what specialty you choose... If radiology is your calling instead of anesthesia, that’s cool. But don’t delude yourself into thinking that you can do a residency and then get paid the big bucks to read normal CXRs, free from mid level encroachment. If you want to distinguish yourself from non-physicians, be prepared to subspecialize and spend additional time in training beyond residency. The surgical specialties may be the only field where this isn’t the case, at least for now

 

[46Long]

Guys are on here complaining about crna's shirking their responsibility to help, and even other MD colleagues. And saying that those in abstentia will get their just desserts when this thing is all over.

Well i do respect your opinion on this and other things but that is just naieve. We have loads of those dog fvckers around my neck of the woods, and those toads just seem to keep on, keeping on.

When it all started we were assured that in ED, emerg would tube their covids, & the medical ICU would tube theirs too. But they're not. Thats no different to not showing up. Ive done 4 in the last week for these w@nkers. Its no different. 'Oh he's difficult airway - bmi 31 and mp3' wtf

Its sh1te, but its the way the world is. Its the way the world always has been. Just because im/we are the fools that cant say no in a smart enough way to get out of harms way

Is it any different to having to do every grotty vascular case or ****ty hip just because the last dickhead colleague of mine thought he heard a murmur, and i know echo! wtf? Its no different

No its similar to the icu docs or the er docs call us for an IV or central line... DO you own work.. Intubation shouldnt be "Only anesthesia does them"