Every patient deserves an RN.. Oh the hypocrisy..

[46Long]

Want job security in any field of medicine? Sub-specialize into a niche where you are asked to make judgement calls that carry risk and consequences. In anesthesia, that can look a number if different ways- pedi hearts, cardiac/ICU managing advanced MCS modalities, doing structural heart TEEs in a setting where your input is factored into mission critical decisions, etc. The days of doing a residency and getting paid handsomely to do easy cases with good job security are long gone. This is true regardless of what specialty you choose... If radiology is your calling instead of anesthesia, that’s cool. But don’t delude yourself into thinking that you can do a residency and then get paid the big bucks to read normal CXRs, free from mid level encroachment. If you want to distinguish yourself from non-physicians, be prepared to subspecialize and spend additional time in training beyond residency. The surgical specialties may be the only field where this isn’t the case, at least for now

Terrible advice..

All cases are easy if you know how to do them.

MOst of the deaths in anesthesia that ive read about are from "Easy cases"

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[Hork Bajir]

I’m not gonna argue with you on that point. Should CRNAs be practicing independently? Hell no. Will they be soon, if they’re not already? The writing is on the wall.

So if you can do a lap appy better and more safely than a CRNA, good for you. No one really cares, unfortunately (they should, but that train has left the station). So what do you do if you want to carve out a practice doing cases that CRNAs will never do? Find a niche where you’re making calls that carry the risk of real consequences. Society will let CRNAs do the appy and the gallbladders, but at least for now, they’re not going to let the CRNAs decide when the VA ECMO patient needs an LV vent, or what size TAVR valve the cardiologist chooses for the patient with poor renal function that can’t get a good CT.

 

[Southpaw]

The thread about how everyone deserves a RN has turned into one about how no one will will get a MD.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Want job security in any field of medicine? Sub-specialize into a niche where you are asked to make judgement calls that carry risk and consequences. In anesthesia, that can look a number if different ways- pedi hearts, cardiac/ICU managing advanced MCS modalities, doing structural heart TEEs in a setting where your input is factored into mission critical decisions, etc. The days of doing a residency and getting paid handsomely to do easy cases with good job security are long gone. This is true regardless of what specialty you choose... If radiology is your calling instead of anesthesia, that’s cool. But don’t delude yourself into thinking that you can do a residency and then get paid the big bucks to read normal CXRs, free from mid level encroachment. If you want to distinguish yourself from non-physicians, be prepared to subspecialize and spend additional time in training beyond residency. The surgical specialties may be the only field where this isn’t the case, at least for now

I get that. I can't imagine myself enjoying a career where I have to take on higher risk/stress because all the mid-levels are doing the bread and butter cases. I do want to sub-specialize and I do want to be an exceptional physician. I don't want to have to justify my worth against someone who (in the end) will have nowhere near the amount of years/training I've had. The job security thing seems worse for anesthesia too.

 

[Southpaw]

I get that. I can't imagine myself enjoying a career where I have to take on higher risk/stress because all the mid-levels are doing the bread and butter cases. I do want to sub-specialize and I do want to be an exceptional physician. I don't want to have to justify my worth against someone who (in the end) will have nowhere near the amount of years/training I've had. The job security thing seems worse for anesthesia too.

I get the concern. I’m not saying there’s nothing to worry about. However I don’t know any unemployed anesthesiologists. If all of the sudden everyone only wants CRNAs and 16,000 anesthesiologists are unemployed then you’ll see destabilization of the field for over a decade or more. It won’t be good for CRNAs either (but most of them can’t understand this....) because there are lots of anesthesiologists who will do anesthesia for CRNA pay and CRNA hours. Chew on that for a few.

 

[IMGASMD]

I’m not gonna argue with you on that point. Should CRNAs be practicing independently? Hell no. Will they be soon, if they’re not already? The writing is on the wall.

So if you can do a lap appy better and more safely than a CRNA, good for you. No one really cares, unfortunately (they should, but that train has left the station). So what do you do if you want to carve out a practice doing cases that CRNAs will never do? Find a niche where you’re making calls that carry the risk of real consequences. Society will let CRNAs do the appy and the gallbladders, but at least for now, they’re not going to let the CRNAs decide when the VA ECMO patient needs an LV vent, or what size TAVR valve the cardiologist chooses for the patient with poor renal function that can’t get a good CT.

It’s a conversation that you can have amongst Anesthesiologists. I certainly will never admit this in the public.

If we have two tier health care. Sure they can do the easy cases.

Mid level just don’t have the breadth or depth to make real decisions. They order more tests, they actually use more resources to make diagnosis. I lost count on changing my initial anesthesia plan, because my crna “don’t feel comfortable.” And later on heard they complain that I am cavalier. I can take responsibility when I am doing the case, they can’t and won’t.

I am not welling to retreat, even if the writing in on the wall.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I did a rads rotation my final year of med school, I got news for you buddy: they had nps and were proud to chum up how they were training them and looking to add more. Rads is dope but if you think those *****s are any more intelligent than all the other physician *****s training midlevels I have a bridge to sell you...

What were they training them to do? Procedures? I doubt an NP is going to be taking jobs away from radiologists any time soon.

 

[Mad Jack]

The Filipino nurses are the best: respectful and nice and good and efficient at their job

They're hands down some of the best nurses in the world. I've worked with Filipino nurses that were MDs in the Philippines before going back to nursing school so they could get a job in the US. These same doctors-turned-nurses still seemed to have far less of an ego than many fresh out of nursing school RNs. Don't get me wrong, I love most of the nurses I work with, but some really seem to think they're running the show and know everything (usually the ones planning to bail to become APRNs as soon as they meet the minimum bedside care requirements to apply)

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

They're hands down some of the best nurses in the world. I've worked with Filipino nurses that were MDs in the Philippines before going back to nursing school so they could get a job in the US. These same doctors-turned-nurses still seemed to have far less of an ego than many fresh out of nursing school RNs. Don't get me wrong, I love most of the nurses I work with, but some really seem to think they're running the show and know everything (usually the ones planning to bail to become APRNs as soon as they meet the minimum bedside care requirements to apply)

The brainwashing is really strong in some nursing schools.

 

[pjl]

Who? I haven’t done a formal study, but I have informally talked to people about it and I have yet to talk to someone who would be okay with AI reading their images without collaborating with a radiologist if at all.

Give it 20 years (less than your career). To me, that is close.
Look at EKGs for an example.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Give it 20 years (less than your career). To me, that is close.

I’ll only be 13 years from retirement when I graduate med school, so if it got real bad I could just pull the pin then.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

I did a rads rotation my final year of med school, I got news for you buddy: they had nps and were proud to chum up how they were training them and looking to add more. Rads is dope but if you think those *****s are any more intelligent than all the other physician *****s training midlevels I have a bridge to sell you...

I don’t think it’s an intelligence thing at all. However, the AANA has already set precedent and been pushing for independent practice of nurse anesthetists while I don’t see anything near that kind of threat for radiology. Are there radiologists out there overseeing 4 nurses who read CTs and MRI? Is there a nursing lobby out there pushing the idea that NPs have equal or better training than radiologists?

Like I said, I don’t think it’s about intelligence at all and I’m sure some radiologists are training NPs hoping to make the extra buck, but there’s no strong lobby backing independent NP or PA radiologists and would a physician trust a read from an NP or PA radiologic-mid level?

 

[sunshinefl]

Give it 20 years (less than your career). To me, that is close.
Look at EKGs for an example.

If EKGs are your example, then you’re disproving your own point. They still have to be read and signed by a human doctor.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I don’t think it’s an intelligence thing at all. However, the AANA has already set precedent and been pushing for independent practice of nurse anesthetists while I don’t see anything near that kind of threat for radiology. Are there radiologists out there overseeing 4 nurses who read CTs and MRI? Is there a nursing lobby out there pushing the idea that NPs have equal or better training than radiologists?

Like I said, I don’t think it’s about intelligence at all and I’m sure some radiologists are training NPs hoping to make the extra buck, but there’s no strong lobby backing independent NP or PA radiologists and would a physician trust a read from an NP or PA radiologic-mid level?

My mentor has been a radiologist for a while. He said some locations he’s been use PAs or NPs to do all the pre and post procedure work for patients getting procedures so that the radiologist can just come in and do the procedure. I know there are PAs doing minor procedures in some places, but none of them are reading anything from what he’s seen. He’s one doc, but he’s been around the country so maybe n=1.5.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

My mentor has been a radiologist for a while. He said some locations he’s been use PAs or NPs to do all the pre and post procedure work for patients getting procedures so that the radiologist can just come in and do the procedure. I know there are PAs doing minor procedures in some places, but none of them are reading anything from what he’s seen. He’s one doc, but he’s been around the country so maybe n=1.5.

To me that sounds like PAs and NPs being used for the right purpose, as physician extenders not “collaborators” or “replacers”. But I’m also a second year Med student so what the hell do I know?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

To me that sounds like PAs and NPs being used for the right purpose, as physician extenders not “collaborators” or “replacers”. But I’m also a second year Med student so what the hell do I know?

Yeah I’m a med student too, so I just defer to the people who are living it.

 

[46Long]

The next 25-50 years are going to be rough in medicine... if we do not get some leadership

 

[jw3600]

They're hands down some of the best nurses in the world. I've worked with Filipino nurses that were MDs in the Philippines before going back to nursing school so they could get a job in the US. These same doctors-turned-nurses still seemed to have far less of an ego than many fresh out of nursing school RNs. Don't get me wrong, I love most of the nurses I work with, but some really seem to think they're running the show and know everything (usually the ones planning to bail to become APRNs as soon as they meet the minimum bedside care requirements to apply)

Everyone has worked with the 24 year old ICU nurse who was "destined for nursing" and president of her sorority.
She has already finished "residencies" and "fellowships" in nursing.
You can often find her on 2 or 3 forms of social media displaying a close up of her face with skin markings from her PPE.

 

[2.0%]

Wouldn't adding care teams beneath RNs further remove physicians from their patients? I realize that typical physician staffing ratios may not change as a result, but it is another level of potential bureaucracy. It invites more opportunity for miscommunication and mistakes. I see the frustration and the desire for many on this thread to "punch down", but wouldn't supporting bedside nurses here only help physicians to serve patients. Support here could also provide another argument for safe physician ratios and clearer delineation between roles later on too.

 

[46Long]

Wouldn't adding care teams beneath RNs further remove physicians from their patients? I realize that typical physician staffing ratios may not change as a result, but it is another level of potential bureaucracy. It invites more opportunity for miscommunication and mistakes. I see the frustration and the desire for many on this thread to "punch down", but wouldn't supporting bedside nurses here only help physicians to serve patients. Support here could also provide another argument for safe physician ratios and clearer delineation between roles later on too.

The fact of the matter is, 100% of bedside nurses can be accomplished by ADN with assistance of LPNs. ALl thisMSN bull****, PHDs and stuff is for teachers which is fine. bedside nursing should be a 2 year degree and on the job training. Period.
Sure if the hospital wants to arequire Masters Degrees and PHDs in nursing etc etc it just gives them reason to justify their 90k bloated salary for 36-38 hour weeks you WILL go bankrupt.
As far as I can see the major problem and obstacles to running an efficient hospital is nursing and their bureacracy and their clipboards And the more nurses who have offices the more inefficient the system gets.

With regards to medical training and education. Nurses cannot claim equivalency when they havent had one ounce of medical training.

 

[sunshinefl]

Wouldn't adding care teams beneath RNs further remove physicians from their patients? I realize that typical physician staffing ratios may not change as a result, but it is another level of potential bureaucracy. It invites more opportunity for miscommunication and mistakes. I see the frustration and the desire for many on this thread to "punch down", but wouldn't supporting bedside nurses here only help physicians to serve patients. Support here could also provide another argument for safe physician ratios and clearer delineation between roles later on too.

There already are “care teams beneath RNs”. They’re called LPNs, CNAs, PCAs, etc. And how does that remove physicians from their patients? Physicians still see their patients.

 

[67552931811]

To me that sounds like PAs and NPs being used for the right purpose, as physician extenders not “collaborators” or “replacers”. But I’m also a second year Med student so what the hell do I know?

What are you talking about? The right reason? That pre and post procedure work is called being a doctor.

 

[deleted171991]

If EKGs are your example, then you’re disproving your own point. They still have to be read and signed by a human doctor.

That's because more than 50% of the EKGs automatically read as normal are not. The false negative rate is very high.

 

[sunshinefl]

That's because more than 50% of the EKGs automatically read as normal are not. The false negative rate is very high.

Yes! I agree it’s needed! That poster has a now deleted post about how AI would take over radiology, someone replied no one is comfortable with an autonomous AI without at least radiologist input, and then they tried to use EKGs as an example to further their AI argument.

 

[deleted171991]

Yes! I agree it’s needed! That poster has a now deleted post about how AI would take over radiology, someone replied no one is comfortable with an autonomous AI without at least radiologist input, and then they tried to use EKGs as an example to further their AI argument.

AI will only get more intelligent. So the argument that it will end up replacing doctors (in certain things) has basis.

And processing power doubles every 18 months. Your iPhone is more powerful than the average server 20 years ago. So it's a matter of time. When, not if.

Remember the times when AI couldn't beat humans at chess?

 

[sunshinefl]

AI will only get more intelligent. So the argument that it will end up replacing doctors (in certain things) has basis.

And processing power doubles every 18 months. Your iPhone is more powerful than the average server 20 years ago. So it's a matter of time. When, not if.

I’m not an expert in radiology or AI. I was only commenting on their EKG example.

 

[Neopolymath]

IR near me uses midlevels to do chest tubes, thoras, paras, pull drains and pre-procedure and post-prodedure documentations and some other small stuff outside the IR suite. In the IR suite they have one room and the IR doc has the other. They do all the piccs, perm caths, etc. They don't place g- tubes or anything up from there essentially.

You can blame the docs on the floors and in the unit for this situation, honestly. They are all chicken **** about basic med student level procedures. It's a common complaint of students on the IM service for example. There is no way one IR doc a day can do all the procedures that get added to the list each day and most of these things are just sent to them so hospitalist, GI, pulm and whoever else don't have to spend 45 minutes doing a procedure. Most don't even actually require the expertise of IR. The IR docs spend most of the day doing livers, GI bleeds, PAD work, and more difficult things so they aren't just sitting there making money off the midlevels with their feet up reading one CT an hour between thoras like in small hospitals.

Physicians need to stick together but there are many times in the hospital that I definitely understand the bitching about other services.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

What are you talking about? The right reason? That pre and post procedure work is called being a doctor.

I'll be honest, I'm pretty ignorant on the subject (very little clinical experience here). What do you feel is the proper place for NPs and PAs?

 

[Man o War]

I'll be honest, I'm pretty ignorant on the subject (very little clinical experience here). What do you feel is the proper place for NPs and PAs?

The proper place for mid levels is to be an extension of the physician, not a replacement. Each individual physician can decide what that means based on the mid level’s skill, and the understanding that said mid level is working under their license, and therefore physician is responsible for their screw ups.
The problem is, physicians have now been put in a position where they are more or less forced to supervise and accept responsibility for terrible mid levels. You can speak with your feet and leave, that’s the choice I made when I didn’t want to deal with CRNA incompetence and unwarranted bravado anymore. I don’t clean up their messes anymore, and I’ve never enjoyed my career more.

 

[2.0%]

Each individual physician can decide what that means based on the mid level’s skill, and the understanding that said mid level is working under their license, and therefore physician is responsible for their screw ups.
The problem is, physicians have now been put in a position where they are more or less forced to supervise and accept responsibility for terrible mid levels. You can speak with your feet and leave, that’s the choice I made when I didn’t want to deal with CRNA incompetence and unwarranted bravado any

Isn't this the problem though, the lack of clearly defined boundaries? Every time physician A leaves a skill to their NP or PA, they become and example to other NP and PAs. That system breeds NPs and PAs that think they can or should be able to do more.

 

[67552931811]

I'll be honest, I'm pretty ignorant on the subject (very little clinical experience here). What do you feel is the proper place for NPs and PAs?

There isn’t one.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

AI will only get more intelligent. So the argument that it will end up replacing doctors (in certain things) has basis.

And processing power doubles every 18 months. Your iPhone is more powerful than the average server 20 years ago. So it's a matter of time. When, not if.

Remember the times when AI couldn't beat humans at chess?

Eh. I think it will be a long, long time before people completely trust a computer to read their images without zero physician involvement. Will AI eventually be good enough to be able to be completely autonomous? Yeah, probably. That ain’t happening any time soon though. Medicine will probably look pretty different by the time that happens.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

What are you talking about? The right reason? That pre and post procedure work is called being a doctor.

Most radiologists probably don’t want to do the pre and post procedure paperwork. You don’t need to be a doctor to do that.

 

[Justice4all]

Most radiologists probably don’t want to do the pre and post procedure paperwork. You don’t need to be a doctor to do that.

True. But that is how it starts. Next moves to them doing the PICC lines without attending present. And within a few years, they will be lobbying for independence. CRNAs were suppose to an extension to anesthesiologist but now they wanna be replacements since majority of us are in the breakroom sipping our mocchiato since sitting in a room is beneath us.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

True. But that is how it starts. Next moves to them doing the PICC lines without attending present. And within a few years, they will be lobbying for independence. CRNAs were suppose to an extension to anesthesiologist but now they wanna be replacements since majority of us are in the breakroom sipping our mocchiato since sitting in a room is beneath us.

Yeah I get you. But I don’t think they’ll be replacing radiologists.

 

[zero0]

AI will only get more intelligent. So the argument that it will end up replacing doctors (in certain things) has basis.

And processing power doubles every 18 months. Your iPhone is more powerful than the average server 20 years ago. So it's a matter of time. When, not if.

Remember the times when AI couldn't beat humans at chess?

Processing speeds have actually hit a plateau in recent years. There's ideas on how to go from here but it seems like squeezing more and more smaller and smaller chips into a device has reached its limit.

Here if you're bored as we all are these days:
Why Haven’t CPU Clock Speeds Increased in the Last Few Years?
Moore’s Law Is Dead. Now What?

Either way I don't see AI replacing radiologists anytime soon for the same reason as EKGs. Radiologists will always be wanted for a final read. My somewhat optimistic opinion is that AI will actually wind up being used by radiologists to help with basic reads and increase volume.

As for the specter of mid-level encroachment, it's nowhere near as much of a concern as in anesthesia. You can't train a monkey to read images like you can train one to turn knobs and push drugs. It's just too cerebral.

 

[Man o War]

Isn't this the problem though, the lack of clearly defined boundaries? Every time physician A leaves a skill to their NP or PA, they become and example to other NP and PAs. That system breeds NPs and PAs that think they can or should be able to do more.

No, the problem is the vast variability in mid level quality. We have some anesthesia practices who allow CRNAs to place epidurals/spinals and some that don’t. We had CRNAs who could do them well because that’s all they did all day every day, and some that were absolutely terrible. If an individual anesthesiologist is comfortable with a CRNA whose skill level they know placing an epidural under his/ her license, I don’t see a problem with that. However, in these sweat shop AMC jobs where you’re supervising 4-6 highly marginal/ borderline incompetent CRNAs and the choice is taken away....that is problematic.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

My somewhat optimistic opinion is that AI will actually wind up being used by radiologists to help with basic reads and increase volume.

That’s exactly what my mentor told me. He said there is research going on now to use AI to be able to analyze things like lung tumors and be able to determine which type of cancer it is based on the mass and how it responds to the imaging modality.

 

[kidthor]

IR near me uses midlevels to do chest tubes, thoras, paras, pull drains and pre-procedure and post-prodedure documentations and some other small stuff outside the IR suite. In the IR suite they have one room and the IR doc has the other. They do all the pics, perm caths, etc. They don't place g- tubes or anything up from there essentially.

Don't get me started on the "PICC team" that consists of two nurses who do three PICCs between 9am and 3pm (each takes two dramatic hours) then go home. Of course supervised (?) by some IR attending that never sees the patient but somehow bills.

 

[Neopolymath]

Don't get me started on the "PICC team" that consists of two nurses who do three PICCs between 9am and 3pm (each takes 2 dramatic hours) then go home. Of course supervised (?) by some IR attending that never sees the patient but somehow bills.

They don't have a picc team at the hospital I described but I have seen that situation as well. The IR docs and the midlevels are both busy as hell at this place pretty much every day.

Picc teams are dumb as hell though. Who manages the problems? Who supervises? Why is an RN who can't even figure out sterile technique on a good day placing these? Why does it take so long for them to come up to do it when they don't do anything else?

 

[46Long]

I get that. I can't imagine myself enjoying a career where I have to take on higher risk/stress because all the mid-levels are doing the bread and butter cases. I. The job security thing seems worse for anesthesia too.

I dont know what level of training you are but I would say you probably should get used to this idea. Also get used to the idea that you will have ALL the responsibility with very little authority. In other words, you will be responsible for the outcome but it was not your plan.
Again, a few people on this board have been sounding the alarm on these matters for years and years. and yes I believe the job security of an Anesthesiologist will worsen in so far as staying at a place for 20 years will not be feasible any longer.
A seperate but relevant offshoot point, get used to the idea that your entire life can be uprooted at any given point in time with the prevalence of hospital and AMC employment.

 

[deleted697127]

I dont know what level of training you are but I would say you probably should get used to this idea. Also get used to the idea that you will have ALL the responsibility with very little authority. In other words, you will be responsible for the outcome but it was not your plan.
Again, a few people on this board have been sounding the alarm on these matters for years and years. and yes I believe the job security of an Anesthesiologist will worsen in so far as staying at a place for 20 years will not be feasible any longer.
A seperate but relevant offshoot point, get used to the idea that your entire life can be uprooted at any given point in time with the prevalence of hospital and AMC employment.

You guys need to relax. Just a few months ago the stock market was at an all time high. People were discussing fast cars, boats, houses, and early retirement. The job market was hot and wide open. Everyone was hiring. We still have a decade of training and high income even in the midst of a unprecedented unemployment rate with a once in a lifetime pandemic.

No one knows where any of these specialties are heading. But what about this scenario: AI makes radiology quicker, easier, and more accurate. Fewer radiologists are needed and trained for the same or higher workload but for liability purposes, a board certified radiologist is still required. Same units / fewer people. Salaries go up?

No one knows. Just do what you like.

 

[deleted162650]

Just do what you like

2 chicks at the same time??

 

[deleted171991]

I’ll be honest, the whole CRNA/AANA gaining more power throughout this whole thing has really pushed me (second year about to take boards) away from anesthesia. You guys have convinced me. I don’t want to deal with the CRNA bs or the NP bs. I think I’m gonna pursue radiology.

One more soul saved, praise be to the Flying Spaghetti Monster!

Although he'll still be in employee hell.

 

[deleted171991]

Want job security in any field of medicine? Sub-specialize into a niche where you are asked to make judgement calls that carry risk and consequences. In anesthesia, that can look a number if different ways- pedi hearts, cardiac/ICU managing advanced MCS modalities, doing structural heart TEEs in a setting where your input is factored into mission critical decisions, etc. The days of doing a residency and getting paid handsomely to do easy cases with good job security are long gone. This is true regardless of what specialty you choose... If radiology is your calling instead of anesthesia, that’s cool. But don’t delude yourself into thinking that you can do a residency and then get paid the big bucks to read normal CXRs, free from mid level encroachment. If you want to distinguish yourself from non-physicians, be prepared to subspecialize and spend additional time in training beyond residency. The surgical specialties may be the only field where this isn’t the case, at least for now

If CRNAs become independent, there won't be enough jobs for many subspecialists. Plus it's 300K wasted possibly for nothing.

IMO, it's better to focus on being a great generalist and on making one's FU money ASAP, then whatever happens, happens.

One should definitely NOT get into any specialty unless one is in love with it. Because **** WILL definitely happen.

 

[deleted171991]

Since I mentioned how bad computers are at reading EKGs (false negatives), here are some examples

EM Cases - Missed Ischemia – Never Trust the ECG Computer Interpretation

We review ECGs from 7 patients presenting to the ED with chest pain, all of whom had a computer interpretation as “normal.” And guess what…they all show acute ischemia! Can you see what the computer couldn’t?

www.emdocs.net

Never trust a "normal" EKG read, especially if the patient has suggestive symptoms.

 

[Urzuz]

If an individual anesthesiologist is comfortable with a CRNA whose skill level they know placing an epidural under his/ her license, I don’t see a problem with that.

Never underestimate the sheer laziness and greed of some of our anesthesiologist colleagues. There are plenty of anesthesiologists who would happily let a CRNA run amok doing whatever they damn well please while they sit in the lounge, as long as they get to cash a check at the end of the month.

 

[chocomorsel]

Never underestimate the sheer laziness and greed of some of our anesthesiologist colleagues. There are plenty of anesthesiologists who would happily let a CRNA run amok doing whatever they damn well please while they sit in the lounge, as long as they get to cash a check at the end of the month.

And that is what started this whole damn thing. I have seen disasters in an anesthesiologist who hadn’t done one on one care in ages. Just signed paperwork. And then tried to get back to doing his cases alone. But my N=1. And he finally got his privileges pulled.

 

[46Long]

And that is what started this whole damn thing. I have seen disasters in an anesthesiologist who hadn’t done one on one care in ages. Just signed paperwork. And then tried to get back to doing his cases alone. But my N=1. And he finally got his privileges pulled.

He was prob terrible to begin with


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Neopolymath]

Never underestimate the sheer laziness and greed of some of our anesthesiologist colleagues. There are plenty of anesthesiologists who would happily let a CRNA run amok doing whatever they damn well please while they sit in the lounge, as long as they get to cash a check at the end of the month.

Do you think everyone working in ACT model is truly greedy? I mean, really, I get the principle you are trying to convey but sometimes this sub turns into virtue signalling so fast. Do you really think there are a lot of anesthesiologists behaving the way you describe? I haven't been to as many ORs as you I'm quite sure but this statement is akin to saying most poor people don't want to work and provide for their families.