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ooscubaoo

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Hi, i was wondering if those of you who are already in pharmacy school could post your overall undergrad GPA, as well as your science GPA. I just want to know how the competition is. I'm a second year student at UCI and i have an overall gpa of 3.269. I'm not sure what my Science GPA is, since i'ts split into bio and physical science. My bio gpa is a 3.0 and my physical science which includes chem and math classes is a 3.6. I think the only reason i have such a low gpa is because of my two writing courses which came out to be around a 2.5.

I'm scared i won't make it to pharmacy school because of the competition, i've been told by some that i should give up on pharmacy school and switch major while i have the chance. I'm really concerned because this quarter is probably the hardest quarter i've taken @ uci. I'm hanging on to B-'s in my o chem class, biochemistry class, calc class and history class. WHat do you guys think? should i give up now or continue?
 

Sukie

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Originally posted by ooscubaoo
WHat do you guys think? should i give up now or continue?

By all means, continue! Don't give up if you are truly passionate about pursuing pharmacy. Your cumulative and science gpa's are above 3.0, which is very competitive. There are more important things than grades...good recommendation letters, volunteer work, extracurricular activities, pharmacy experience, communication skills, leadership abillity, good interview results. To be a truly competitive applicant, you should focus on presenting yourself as a well-rounded student who has the desire, motivation, and drive to pursue a pharmacy career. As difficult as it is to digest, grades aren't everything.

Don't be frightened and, more importantly, don't give up! Good luck with your decision :)
 

michelleca4

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I go to UCI and I know your GPA is good. I mean two more years, the competition for PHarmacy School might be tuff so just keep up the good work. I know UCI people who have lower GPA than you and they all got accepted to Pharmacy School.
 
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ooscubaoo

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Originally posted by michelleca4
I go to UCI and I know your GPA is good. I mean two more years, the competition for PHarmacy School might be tuff so just keep up the good work. I know UCI people who have lower GPA than you and they all got accepted to Pharmacy School.

Thanks a lot for the motivation. It just seems like @ UCI, there's soo many students with GPA >3.5. I feel like i will never accomplish that even if i work hard at it. It's only the 2nd year, but I'm sure the 3rd and 4th year will be more challenging which means my grades will probbably drop significantly by then.
 

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If you have much of the prereqs done, take some easy classes for gpa booster. If there is a hard class that you think you won't be able to do well in it, take it in the summer instead of regular semester, then focus 100% on it.
Many people told me that gpa is just one of many variables. If you can get involved in something that will standout, try to do so. Then polish your pcat so they know that you are smart.
 

VP_Pharm2004

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WVUPharm2007, if you don't mind me asking... what was your PCAT score like? Also, did you apply to VCU as an out-of-state student last year? Just curious.
 

VP_Pharm2004

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Now I think about it. I don't want to sound like a crazy maniac when asking random people about VCU, so let me explain myself. I was just wondering because VCU is in your neighbor state, so I figured you might have applied there too.
 

dgroulx

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3.67 overall, 3.9 math/science
PCAT:
Verbal 98%
Bio 98%
Reading 94%
Math 82%
Chem 90%
Overall 98%

I got into UF last year. At the time, they told me to be competitive you should have a 3.5 math/science GPA and a 85% PCAT.
 

ooscubaoo

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Originally posted by dgroulx
3.67 overall, 3.9 math/science
PCAT:
Verbal 98%
Bio 98%
Reading 94%
Math 82%
Chem 90%
Overall 98%

I got into UF last year. At the time, they told me to be competitive you should have a 3.5 math/science GPA and a 85% PCAT.

OMg, thats extremely high. why not go to med school dgroulx?
 

MNnaloxone

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Probably the same reason I didn't go to med school. I didn't want to be a physician-I wanted to be a pharmacist.
If you get into pharmacy school, you'll find that some of your classmates could definitely have been accepted to med school-they just didn't want to practice medicine.

And for the record: 3.5 GPA, 3.6 Pharmacy GPA, 98th %tile PCAT, and a 0.07 BAC. :) Also, the BS in Microbiology, the year of technician experience, solid writing skills, and being able to hold a decent conversation with other humans during interviews also helped.
 

dgroulx

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Originally posted by ooscubaoo
OMg, thats extremely high. why not go to med school dgroulx?

Because I want to be a pharmacist not a physician. I don't see pharmacy as a second choice to med school.
 

eddie269

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has anyone heard of known of anyone who got into pharmacy school (any pharm school in the US) with a gpa lower than 3.0 at the time of applying?

I'm only asking because these science courses at UC Davis are killing me!
 
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Sukie

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My friend got into UCSF with a 2.9 GPA four years ago. But with increased interest in the pharmacy profession and the unveiling of PharmCAS, competition is definitely a lot stiffer.
 

eddie269

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I see. Damn, 2.8 gpa for ucsf?? my how times changed.

I am hoping to get a 3.0-3.1 for pre-req courses but more like a 2.9 for my cum. gpa. Its horrible when you were a freshmen and didn't know what to do with your life and grad. school wasn't even an option. Now as a fourth year, EVERYTHING comes back to haunt you.

But im glad theres som hope. At least I know im active outside of school also.

But I am wondering what was THEE LOWEST GPA a pharm school would take. And I mean now.

isn't everyone else curious? ;)
 

jdpharmd?

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Originally posted by kim31kim
I could easily see a school taking someone with a 2.5GPA if all their bad grades were concentrated during a certain year or something and everything since then they have had excellent grades and showed lots of improvement.

Many pharmacy schools have an ABSOLUTE minimum GPA of 2.5 to even APPLY. I know that many schools are only considering 3.0 and above since the implementation of pharmCAS. Our average GPA/PCAT was something like 3.4 or 3.5 and 85%-87% for the class entering last year (2003). It's probably not "impossible" for a 2.9 to make it, but it would sure work in your favor to have a great PCAT and other experience.:thumbup:
 

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I think I have a C average....but I'm not applying to professional school so it doesnt apply to me I guess...
 

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The average gpa is misleading. I know at usc they don't really care about ur non science gpa or any science classes that are not health related. Example, quantum mechanics, a science course but is not really weighted since it is not pharmacy related. I had a low gpa, like 2.9, but on their computer system when factoring out most easy classes and classes they did not want, I had a 3.1 or 3.2 or something like that. ( I don't really like non science classes so they weigh me down but was factored out later). Alternatively, my friend had a 3.8 but most of his classes were in econ and management, which were classes they did not really look at, subsequently, his gpa was like 3.1 also after all the factoring. They don't want people to over inflate their gpa with classes like musicology, so they have their own grading systems.
But even with a 3.1, i was still far off of the average gpa here at usc (3.4). But I think I did very well during the interview. Just try to get to the interview process and from there, it is up to u to get in. I say once u get an interview, it is 50/50 or 40/60 depending on the school. If STUPID ME CAN GET IN, SO CAN ANYONE ON THIS BORED, JUST GOT TO TRY HARDER AND IMPROVE URSELF.
 
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28657

Originally posted by jdpharmd?
Our average GPA/PCAT was something like 3.4 or 3.5 and 85%-87% for the class entering last year (2003).

I got these stats from one of our lectures from the Dean....
Midwestern-Glendale stats for the 2003 entering class were 3.5 GPA/79% PCAT. And just to get an idea of how it gets increasingly more competitive: the stats for 2002 were 3.3/69%.
 

ooscubaoo

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Originally posted by AmandaRxs
I got these stats from one of our lectures from the Dean....
Midwestern-Glendale stats for the 2003 entering class were 3.5 GPA/79% PCAT. And just to get an idea of how it gets increasingly more competitive: the stats for 2002 were 3.3/69%.


eeeek 3.5 GPA...
 

gdk420

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I think what is more important is what is the average gpa for the people who got interviews. Try to at least get to the interview process and then show them that u are more than just the numbers they see.
 

Triangulation

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yup gdk is right. my gpa was at best a 3.1 and I got into sc and ucsf. the good schools look at a lot more than your gpa.
 

BiOGoly

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Originally posted by AmandaRxs
I got these stats from one of our lectures from the Dean....
Midwestern-Glendale stats for the 2003 entering class were 3.5 GPA/79% PCAT. And just to get an idea of how it gets increasingly more competitive: the stats for 2002 were 3.3/69%.

Also you have to consider that the majority of those accepted were probably from junior college, without a four year degree. I think it's pretty much accepted that having a high GPA in 90 credits of CC classes isn't such a feat. So overall GPA might be skewed to the right based on this. The average GPA of peeps accepted w/ bachelors' degrees I'm sure is below a 3.5...

Speaking of competitive, this school got popular awfully quickly...the admissions stats for 2001 were 3.12/60%!! They must have been accepting applicants in mid 2.0 range...
 
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28657

Originally posted by gdk420
I think what is more important is what is the average gpa for the people who got interviews. Try to at least get to the interview process and then show them that u are more than just the numbers they see.

Why would interviewee GPA be more important? Most likely those scores would be lower since colleges want to admit the most qualified and competitve applicants, thereby selecting those with both higher scores and experience/communication skills/etc.
3.5 is an *average* and it has to be assumed that, yes, I'm sure there are a few admitted in my class with less than stellar academics. However, I'm sure those candidates were exemplary in other aspects.
 
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28657

Originally posted by BiOGoly
Also you have to consider that the majority of those accepted were probably from junior college, without a four year degree. I think it's pretty much accepted that having a high GPA in 90 credits of CC classes isn't such a feat. So overall GPA might be skewed to the right based on this. The average GPA of peeps accepted w/ bachelors' degrees I'm sure is below a 3.5...

Actually a majority of those accepted (and AZ natives) attended ASU. I have not yet met one student who attended a JC as the majority of their undergrad. At Midwestern we're put into groups of six students to complete group projects for the time we're here. I am the ONLY one in my group who doesn't have a bachelor's degree, and we all attended major state schools.
 

gdk420

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Interview gpa are more important in the sense that there is an intial screening process, meaning there is a GPA cutoff point at which if someone was below that, they would not be invited to an interview. If a person can make it through the intial screening process and get to the interview, they can try to make up for a subpar gpa with their interview skills, on site essays, and other stuff. Once they get to the interview, it is a 50/50 or in the case of ucsf (60/40). That is why interview gpa is more important.
 

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The process of getting into a pharmacy school is really random. I know people last year who got into USC with GPAs that are belowed a 3.0. I also know people who didn't receive any interview and they have a 3.5 GPA at UCLA. As for me, I got into USC and UCSD so far. I have an overall GPA of 3.5 (both cummulative and science) as a chemistry and biochemistry major at UCLA. I think you should continue pursuing a carreer in pharmacy if that is what you truly want to do. Hang on this quarter, 0-chem is never easy. Furthermore, I think your GPA is highly competitive. Besides, it is not all about GPA, work on getting great letter recommendation, try to get more experience in a pharmacy environment and work on your communication skills. I am sure you will get into a great pharmacy school. Hope that helps answer your question.
 

gdk420

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My friend had a PhD and he did not even get into any pharmacy school while other people with lower gpa and only a bachelor degree got in. As you can see, pharmacy school look more beyond the numbers and title. Other aspects they take into consideration are letter of rec, work experience, desire, communication skills (both oral and written), and etc. GPA is important but it is not the only factor that will help you get in. I am the very prime example of that.
 

MALA

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Originally posted by BiOGoly
[I think it's pretty much accepted that having a high GPA in 90 credits of CC classes isn't such a feat. So overall GPA might be skewed to the right based on this.
B]

Not sure what you meant here, maybe I'm getting the context of what you're saying out of order. Are you saying that 90 credits of science, english, etc.. is very easy at a comm. college? If so, I'm curious as to what more do you learn or do in Gen Chem I in a university compared to a community college? Do you actually "split" the atom at a university?
I'm not being sarcastic at all with you, but I would really just like someone to tell me what more you do and learn for Chem 1-2, physics 1-2, Ochem 1-2. If the pharm schools will accept those classes from a community college and think they're good enough, why are you so down on it? Again, I'm not being defensive or sarcastic- I really really am truly just curious, because you're not the first person I've seen write that on this board.
 

jdpharmd?

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Originally posted by MALA
Not sure what you meant here, maybe I'm getting the context of what you're saying out of order. Are you saying that 90 credits of science, english, etc.. is very easy at a comm. college? If so, I'm curious as to what more do you learn or do in Gen Chem I in a university compared to a community college? Do you actually "split" the atom at a university?
I'm not being sarcastic at all with you, but I would really just like someone to tell me what more you do and learn for Chem 1-2, physics 1-2, Ochem 1-2. If the pharm schools will accept those classes from a community college and think they're good enough, why are you so down on it? Again, I'm not being defensive or sarcastic- I really really am truly just curious, because you're not the first person I've seen write that on this board.

Frequently community college courses are "less intense" than university classes. It's not *always* true. Some pharmacy schools, like the University of Michigan, won't even consider community college students unless they have something unusual to offer. They don't want to "punish" 4-year students for going to a competitive university. Taking a class or three at a JC is no big deal, but it's unfair to compare JC GPAs with 4-year GPAs. Some schools are a little more forgiving, others are not. It shouldn't be a huge surprise to hear this. JC is not the same as a university. UCLA vs JC.. hmm, who would you pick?

Edit: Pharmacy schools also consider the courseload. It would be unusual for a JC student to have 17-19 credits. University students take 16-20 credits on a regular basis. Pharmacy schools are trying to get a feel for how a student will perform in pharmacy school (which is 16-19 credits/semester). Taking 7 credits/semester at JC doesn't show them anything. Getting decent grades in 2 courses at once is much different from good grades in 5 classes at once.
 

MALA

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Well, I have to say for those beginning classes that everyone must take that consist of english 1 & 2, chemistry , etc... they're the same classes as long as the college is accredited. Just because a kid can't afford to go to "university" for 4 years doesn't make them less sharp for having taken those prereqs at a comm college. You may feel that way because maybe in your state comm. colleges are a joke.
Scientific notation, atoms, nucleus, protons, neutrons are the same whether you are sitting in a cc classroom or university....except you're paying alot more to hear the same concepts in a university.
If I'm looking at 2 people w/ 2yrs of college and both have taken english 1-2, and the general sciences I think they're both on a level playing field. The only way it would tip the scales is if someone has a b.s. in science.
But we can agree to disagree, it's alright.
 

spacecowgirl

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I got accepted to my first (and only) choice of school with a 3.87 GPA, a BA in psychology and about 6+ years of tech experience. The average GPA of my class was 3.68 (80 people). I didn't have to take the PCAT :D

I know some of my classmates got in with GPAs below 3.0 but competition is really getting fierce. GPA certainly isn't the only factor - things like volunteer work, prior job experience, extra curricular activities and really making the effort to get to know the admissions committee helps tremendously! I started contacting the dean of my school of interest about 9 months before I applied. Since I was coming from out of state and in-state students are given priority, I think showing initiative was a huge advantage. I also had taken advantage of many research opportunities and had a few grants and conferences under my belt. Take advantage of EVERYTHING your school has to offer - you never know where it might lead you.

Good luck!
 
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BiOGoly

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I don't mean to belittle community college credits. I took both general biology and organic chemistry at community college and would rank the quality of those classes at the level of a small liberal arts college. Classes were very small and filled with mostly graduates who were going back to school to persue medicine, possilbly the most dedicated group of people with whom i've ever shared a classroom.

However, this is not the rule and I think we all know it. I also took a statistics class where the instructor gave the answers out during every test...everyone got an automatic A for effort. I'm not saying that couldn't happen at a 4 year school, but it's certainly not as likely.

What i was getting at is that if you have completed 4 year degree with a decent GPA you ought to be more attractive a candidate than someone with 2 years of JC classes and near perfect grades( edit: or someone who just took the required lower div classes at a 4 year)...my biased opinion. GPA above a B average is so subjective, its practically meaningless by itself anyway, no matter what institution you attend.
 

MALA

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I agree-it's so subjective and each school and adcom judges so differently when making their decisions. As far as the opinion among different students, there's too many different factors in the mix for anyone to really know which is better. In the end, nothing concrete can be proven, and people are entitled to their opinions.
 

jdpharmd?

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Originally posted by MALA
Well, I have to say for those beginning classes that everyone must take that consist of english 1 & 2, chemistry , etc... they're the same classes as long as the college is accredited. Just because a kid can't afford to go to "university" for 4 years doesn't make them less sharp for having taken those prereqs at a comm college. You may feel that way because maybe in your state comm. colleges are a joke.
Scientific notation, atoms, nucleus, protons, neutrons are the same whether you are sitting in a cc classroom or university....except you're paying alot more to hear the same concepts in a university.
If I'm looking at 2 people w/ 2yrs of college and both have taken english 1-2, and the general sciences I think they're both on a level playing field. The only way it would tip the scales is if someone has a b.s. in science.
But we can agree to disagree, it's alright.

It's not that I mind if you disagree with me. It's that it doesn't matter. If you have to post this kind of stuff to convince *yourself* that community college credits are the same as university credits, then how are you going to convince the admissions commitee? I don't have anything against community colleges or the students who go there, but if you think that adcoms view them on a "level playing field", you're terribly misinformed. Please don't shoot the messenger.

If your plans are to apply to pharmacy school in 2006, then I would seriously consider taking credits at a larger university. You have time. Even the least expensive pharmacy school has higher tuituion than some of the more expensive undergraduate universities. Maybe it's time for some student loans. It seems like you're taking 6-7 years off of work; maybe a few thousand bucks (over 6-7 years) isn't so much afterall.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone. There *are* people who get into school with only JC credits. Personally, I would try for a university if I were you. If you look at the pattern of pharmacy school admissions, you're only going to see it getting tougher. Just because someone got in with all JC credits last year doesn't mean that it will still be that way in 2006. You might have heard that they're giving preference to (science) BS students now. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's (almost) all that are admitted in 2006. Best of luck.
 

ooscubaoo

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I'm not sure if summer classes at a JC are the same as their fall and spring semester, but from what i have experienced JC's are MUCH MUCH easier than universities. I took a couple of classes at a JC during the summer and they were EXTREMELY easy compared to classes at a UC. The econ class I took at the JC was also a joke. We had group tests, open book, and take home exams. I've also seen a lot more people cheat @ a JC. It's not like a UC where you have TA's hoovering over you to see if you cheat or not.
 

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This is not even about com. college vs UC. It's even about UC vs UC. I've known a friend who is studying Bio at UCI and when I ask her ?s for my ochem, she said they dont need to know since the curve it's already low enough. That get me angry. My school was chosen to do the revision for the Bio section of the MCAT last year because of its rigorous courses. It's not fair. I guess when I get to pharm school, I will be more prepare. sigh
 

MALA

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I'm not sure what JC colleges you go too, but my classes ARE NOTHING like that- there's no open book, no answers given, and what not- GEEZ! At least now I understand why you feel the way you do.
AND JD- I don't have to post anything to try to convince myself of anything.
I'm totally convinced that where I am doing science prereqs is a very decent college. My original question was "What is your proof or reasoning for feeling that comm colleges are very poor institutions to learn?"

but as I said before:

"WE CAN AGREE TO DISAGREE" - and peacefully too-dammit! :p
 

jdpharmd?

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Originally posted by MALA
My original question was "What is your proof or reasoning for feeling that comm colleges are very poor institutions to learn?"

but as I said before:

"WE CAN AGREE TO DISAGREE" - and peacefully too-dammit! :p

My sources of information are the 4 or 6 admission counselors who specifically told me that 1) They sometimes REJECT community college students with a 4.0, and 2) That they absolutely and consistantly rank university GPAs higher than community college GPAs. I have nothing against community colleges. I took 7 credits at one and it was great. I'm sharing information in the hopes that it will help future students, including yourself. In your defense, I have *zero* experience with Albany COP.
 

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I'm taking physics at IVC, and its so easy. I completed Microbiology there as well and it was an easy A. I never studied so little for a class and did so well, compared to UCI classes. There are people who graduated from UCI with a social science degree and completed the pre-reqs at IVC. They got accepted to Pharmacy School. I have only taken 2 prereqs for pharmacy school at IVC, the rest was at UCI under my bs degree.
 

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I know that a lot of pharm schools right now are accepting a lot from comm coll but i in talking with several profs and deans it appears the reason they say the prefer a BS is b/c they are learning that the majority of the people who don't make it (don't pass everything or don't have at least a 2.0 they are the same difference here) are from comm colleges and maybe those particular ones are no good. I know we have several schools we don't accept people from just because they are sub par.
 

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Yes, SOME community college instructors spoon feed you what you need to know to succeed in their classes. Yes, on average, there are brighter students at the universities. But I sure am glad they don't grade based on a bell-shaped curve at CCs. From my experience, you get some of the most dedicated students taking science classes at night at community colleges. People who work all day, take a class a night, and study like their lives depend on it. Especially these middle-aged nursing students. Often they'll take one class at a time, and their motivation level is off the charts. I have a bachelors and I've taken many classes at JCs. I've had easy classes at both levels and hard classes at both levels. The main difference from what I've observed is the JC instructors are more student friendly; they're more likely to spoon-feed you the concepts. A university lecturer that merely lectures out of the book and gives tests meant to check whether you read the fine print in the chapters wouldn't survive teaching that way at a community college. The middle-aged nursing students would run him/her out of town.
 

ooscubaoo

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i went to santa ana community college to take a couple of summer classes....DON'T EVER GO THERE. I'VE HAD BAD EXPERIENCES. It's sooo ghettttto.
 

dgroulx

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I took A & P at a community college and my other courses at a small, liberal arts college. I felt the 4-year school better prepared me for pharm school. The people with only community college are overwhelmed by the amount of material.
 

Triangulation

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MALA, you're mostly right but not completely. Several ppl in the SC admissions office have told me candidly that the college or university that you took courses or received your degree weighs heavily on their mind. If you earn your BS or complete the majority of your coursework at a jc, you need to do more outside stuff to boost your app. One classmate of mine was told this by someone in the admissions office, when the admissions officer mistakenly thought she earned her BS at a less competitive college than where she actually attended.

This is not to say that students that come from lower tier schools don't get in, but they generally have to do more to demonstrate their competency. There is a rationale to this. The admissions office wants to make sure that students can handle what they're in for. Making it thru the pre-req curric at a UC is a pretty good indication bc those are well-established, rigorous curricula. This is no guarantee. Our class lost two students after first semester who graduated from Johns Hopkins, but the admissions committee must make assumptions in order to evaluate candidates.
 

lilmk

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i COMPLETELY agree w/JD on this. sure an atom is an atom...that really isn't the point. It's about how hard and in depth the exam was. It's about how much they make you think. It's about how tough the competition is. It's about how you can study till you're blue in the face and still only manage a low B in the class because the exams were THAT crazy hard and your classmates are THAT crazy smart. It's about how being the **** in high school means zero in college. That's UC for you.

When i took a couple of classes at JC after i graduated college, i found it SO kick-back and i was at the way top of my classes. When my classmates asked me how i did it, i told them that i just studied for the exams like we were supposed to. And they were like, "oooooh, really?! hmmm :idea: maybe we should try that."

Ok, maybe not all JCs are like this but this is definitely not unusual esp. at the SoCal JCs. Maybe things are different elsewhere.
 

Caverject

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I went to a CC/JC and can contest that the bigger schools do look at the fact you went to a JC/CC. Anyway, I got into my school with a 3.1 GPA. Of course, I had to explain why I had 11 replaced grades (because I screwed around the first 2 years of college) but my grades showed nothing less than a B for 5 semesters straight. My PCAT as follows:

Verbal: 94
Biology: 99
Reading comp: 62 (I'm a slow reader)
Quantitiative Ability: 79
Chemistry: 99
Composite: 99
 

eddie269

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I have always felt that people who go to JC's have it "easier". That is why I made a post a few weeks back about JC pre-req's vs a 4 yr school (i.e UC's) pre-reqs. And its hard to generalize which school has the easier course and vice versa because they are all different. But my overall opinion is that MOST JC's are indeed easier than UC's. Here's why I think so:

at a huge university (such as a UC), the professors MAIN job is to do research, not teach. They are only required to teach maybe 2 quarters a year (or 1 semester). The other time, they are working on research and trying to write papers, etc. They also have tenure which makes them an "official" part of the university. They cannot (VERY HARD) get fired. They can teach a class and everyone can get F's and he will not get fired. (maybe on probation or a warning at the most). This is the case right now for my biology class. 70% of the class has a D and under. I hear that in the past, he had no problem failing so many students.

however, at a JC, if a professor has a high failing rate every year, the professor will not only get warned, but he also might get fired. They don't do research at the JC and all they do is lecture. hence, a JC professor is forced to be "easier" to make sure his students have a good chance of getting good grades.

at a UC, the professor can be as hard as they want, flunk as many students as they want, and still live happily ever after.

to summarize, JC professors "NEED" to be easier/fair while UC professors have the freedom to be EXTRA HARD and unfair.

OK, sorry for the rambling, I am just not on the good side of my biology class grading.

again, this is just my opinion and what I have concluded. Like I said, not ALL JC's and UC's are like this. so you JC guys, don't get mad. :)
 
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