exactly how important is an applicant's undergrad institution?

[superdevil]

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Hello, all. I've been checking out the page for a while and I think its friggin' great. Here's my problem: I recently saw a list of undergrad. schools for MSTP students at an Ivy League med school, and it looked something like; Yale, Harvard, Yale, Yale, Dartmouth, Princeton, WashU, Columbia, Yale...I think you get the point.

I, however, go to a no-name state school in Ohio. I have a 4.0 GPA (junior; Bio major), biochem. research exp. (no pubs), community service helping disabled students in bio labs...a modest if not fairly competitive application thus far.

My question is, with the typical caveat of, "all else being equal," how much emphasis do the more "prestigious" MSTP schools actually put on a student's undergrad institution? Should I just stick to schools in and around Ohio if I don't destroy the MCAT?

Any advice you guys can give is totally appreciated!

 

[Newquagmire]

Honestly, I really don't know for sure the answer to this question. Let's just put it this way, all things being equal besides undergrad school, which applicant would YOU choose?

But things are never really all equal. MSTP schools are really looking at research "potential," whatever that means. Maybe you're the first person in your family to go to college. I'm sure that probably counts for something.

Science, like everything else in the "real world" is also based on your connections. Networking is always a key skill to have. Is a student at Ivy League X going to have the same connections as a student at Small State School Y? Probably not.

The advice I would give to you is to do your best (and I know that's not much help). Be the best applicant you can be. Apply to a broad range of schools and you should be fine.

 

[Neuronix]

The big name schools do put some emphasis on ugrad institution. I didn't really believe it myself, until I was told as much by an adcom at Penn. My going to the University of Delaware, I know now, was a strike against me. However, I still stood out enough that I got into Penn off the waitlist.

Regardless, once you go down the list to less competitive but still excellent MSTPs, I think ugrad matters less and less. If you start looking at where the students are from at MSTPs beyond the top-10, it's not so much from the big name schools.

 

[KirsteenB]

...and a corollary question: how are Canadian universities viewed by the admissions committees?

Cheers,
Kirsteen

 

[surge]

Both of these are almost rethorical questions.

There is no way of truly knowing, and even if there were, you'd be better off not thinking about it.

I'm sure it helps being from a big school, and it's not by mistake that Ivy league kids make up probably close to 50% of medstudents at places like HMS and YSM.

But, please take my advice, as I feel especially well qualified to give it - this process (MD/PhD in particular) is truly about you as an individual. Comparing yourself to other applicants, including their undergrad will do you no good.

Bottom line is that the only thing that matters is how well you do. So, if you like your Podunk State school and are doing great, don't worry about it.

Serge,

Drake University '03
Yale University School of Medicine MSTP '10

 

[noy]

Must have worked for you - I have never heard of Drake!

I think the ivies play a lot of favoritism, and as a favor will select from each other's students - its the 'old boy network' of acaedmia (hence the somewhat resentful feeling at U. Chicago...)

That's why the education is worth so much money - the actual schooling as an undergrad is 95% identical, you pay for the networking and the access. Witness one G. Bush from Yale...

So of 8-12 seats per school, maybe 60 or 70 at great schools nationwaide, perhaps 30 or 40 are open to the general public at large, I hope to be one of those...

I think its a bigger deal for medical school proper, where one has to pay for the education...

 

[Newquagmire]

Originally posted by noy
Must have worked for you - I have never heard of Drake!

I think the ivies play a lot of favoritism, and as a favor will select from each other's students - its the 'old boy network' of acaedmia (hence the somewhat resentful feeling at U. Chicago...)

That's why the education is worth so much money - the actual schooling as an undergrad is 95% identical, you pay for the networking and the access. Witness one G. Bush from Yale...

So of 8-12 seats per school, maybe 60 or 70 at great schools nationwaide, perhaps 30 or 40 are open to the general public at large, I hope to be one of those...

I think its a bigger deal for medical school proper, where one has to pay for the education...

Drake is a school in Iowa. Lots of alcohol. Fun people.

But networking is part of the game (and science). As much as we all hate to believe it, the world of Harvard et al is NOT the same as the world of my state schools. It doesn't mean that there aren't extremely intelligent students at these "less prestigous" institutions, it just means that the people they know and the things they do as extracurriculars will probably be different.

 

[Habari]

i wrote a bit about this topic here:

http://www.intransit.us/faq/#5

the answer borders on generic for a reason: it doesn't particularly matter, but obviously those from schools without a highly competitive national reputation have to prove it in other ways [which explains why candidates from 'less reputable' colleges oftentimes have gone well above and beyond grades/mcats] - and there are many ways to do this.

 

[mosquito]

the view of getting into a top mstp from a small non-descript school is a troubling one, but i would say mainly in the case that there are few other students at these schools that have experience in applying.
i was in a similar boat coming from a small midwestern state school that was ranked number 3 in its own town (town of about 100,000) . however i believe that most of the top mstp's look at research experience as a number one criteria. my grades were good, my mcats were good, but my research was really good (no pubs, but big name summer internships). you will soon find out that the interviewing schedule is troubling, for sometimes there seems to be no rhyme or reason to where you are selected. i was interviewed and accepted at hopkins and harvard, yet not even interviewed at a few other schools. hope this helps in some regard, that the no-name schoolers can get into the big time programs.
best of luck

MSTP Y1

 

[superdevil]

thanks for the info and inspiration, everyone.

hopefully, I can mimic the success of Neuronix, Surge, and Mosquito (*superdevil daydreams of classes at Penn, Yale, Hopkins, Harvard...must be sweet...enter rude awakening at Podunk U bookstore...$450 on my Discover?! NOOOOOOO*)